Just for developer feedback, I am happy with the model and understand that whilst the content is the same, the product is different.
I liken it to a movie, I can stream on Netflix or buy the DVD. Same content, but the delivery methods comes form 2 different sources with their own pros and cons.
this is an almost apt analogy. I purchased the physical movie at a B&M (Target) paying full price and now I want the digital version, from a different vendor (Vundo, Redbox, Netflix) for free since it is the same content and same publisher.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Just for developer feedback, I am happy with the model and understand that whilst the content is the same, the product is different.
I liken it to a movie, I can stream on Netflix or buy the DVD. Same content, but the delivery methods comes form 2 different sources with their own pros and cons.
this is an almost apt analogy. I purchased the physical movie at a B&M (Target) paying full price and now I want the digital version, from a different vendor (Vundo, Redbox, Netflix) for free since it is the same content and same publisher.
The feat example is by far the closest and most relevant.
I disagree, the feat example is you bought a portion of the whole. You cannot buy a portion of the physical book. you have to buy it all or nothing no matter where you buy it. the only option you have is where to buy it from. You could argue the amount, but that is really an extension of where you decide to buy it.
Lets be honest, the ability to purchase a book a portion at a time is a DDB exclusive and available no where else that i am aware of. To use this as a comparison is down right negligent of the bigger issue.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Negligent? I think that's an overreaction. Negligent of what bigger issue? That you cannot buy a portion of the physical book? Doesn't Phandelver contain only a portion of the PHB? Can't parts of Xanathar's be found in other books, like individual spells? Even if those avenues don't pan out, from my perspective when you buy something on DDB you are buying a portion of what the book contains, the same content. And even if you don't share my perspective, and you think it's true that you cannot buy a portion of the physical book, it is irrelevant to the point that I've been trying to make. The feat example really is the best for getting across my point. Btw in case my point wasn't clear, here it is again
DDB internally has a content purchased registry used to provide discounts on purchases with overlapping content and they are reportedly (by many people here) doing successful business. Also, I find that business model to inspire confidence in my purchases. And so I think it should be applied across the whole 5e product, not just DDB. Facts that it would be really difficult or unlikely to happen do nothing to replace my lost confidence.
DDB internally has a content purchased registry used to provide discounts on purchases with overlapping content and they are reportedly (by many people here) doing successful business. Also, I find that business model to inspire confidence in my purchases. And so I think it should be applied across the whole 5e product, not just DDB. Facts that it would be really difficult or unlikely to happen do nothing to replace my lost confidence.
I'm confused by what you mean by overlapping content, unless you just mean that they have a way to discount a book by the amount you already paid for a feat/race or etc, because I do not get a discount on a book just because the same race is in two books, well no bigger discount than that which i have already gotten from the retail price.
And this is DDB internally doing this. So even if they have something at allows micro transactions to occur (such as we have x number of sold feats/races/whatever which make up a book so therefore we owe WotC a licence cost), to go across different companies, that would have to be done by WotC, unless WotC contracts out for a 3rd party to track this, and i am sure that something either in the license agreement or just general principle wouldn't allow a current licensee to do it. Thus we need to ask WotC about doing this and not DDB. from what I can tell, WotC has no intention of doing this.
This would start to interfere with those companies business because next would be "I created my character on this platform and now i want to be able to use it on that platform without redoing the work". While a reasonable request, then this would cause force these companies to work together. It could also cause limitation into the market because what if, after all, DDB wants to get into the VTT market and now feels like they cannot compete against FG and R20.
And so I think it should be applied across the whole 5e product, not just DDB. Facts that it would be really difficult or unlikely to happen do nothing to replace my lost confidence.
Yep. If you're looking to make this known or instill change, I would highly recommend contacting WOTC on such matters to voice your opinion on their intellectual property distributions.
And so I think it should be applied across the whole 5e product, not just DDB. Facts that it would be really difficult or unlikely to happen do nothing to replace my lost confidence.
Yep. If you're looking to make this known or instill change, I would highly recommending WOTC on such matters to voice your opinion on their intellectual property distributions.
This is a very appropriate reaction to my point that makes sense. Yeah I've been pointing the finger at WotC since the beginning of my involvement in this thread. I have posted there but it's basically a ghost town compared to the activity here. Any visibility anywhere on this issue is progress imo. And even though I've been trying to make this point and get a sensible reaction like this I've also had a lot of push back that, to me, didn't seem to make sense and that's how I got sucked in here.
And I get why you would get that here because it seems like you want DDB to do something about this when they can’t. Sorry WotC is a ghost town, but twitter would be a great place to start. They have several of the developers and their own channel. Also Facebook if you can find an official forum.
You only got sucked into here because we responded to you and had a discussion about it.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
And I get why you would get that here because it seems like you want DDB to do something about this when they can’t. Sorry WotC is a ghost town, but twitter would be a great place to start. They have several of the developers and their own channel. Also Facebook if you can find an official forum.
You only got sucked into here because we responded to you and had a discussion about it.
An example of a non-sensical response would be to say that the content purchased registry is a bad business model while still saying that DDB is doing successful business (because they use the content purchased registry model). Another non-sensical response would be to say that the people have spoken and they like DDB when DDB uses a content purchased registry which is exactly what I'm saying to do. Another non-productive avenue is to explain how difficult and improbable it'd be for WotC to implement a content purchased registry. Although true, for me it isn't an acceptable end. I am willing to talk about and strive for ideals in the future. Another non-productive avenue is talking about specific prices and comparing them. It's beside the point. Those are the reasons why I got sucked in here.
The point is this. DDB uses a content purchased registry and they like it, let's admit we like it, and we'd all like it if it was adopted throughout an entire edition someday. I think that's what people were hoping for when they get merged into this thread, that that was already accomplished. There's nothing wrong with them for thinking that's how it might already be.
We have also introduced a new system to redeem product keys to unlock D&D Beyond content that will immediately be used for purchasers of the Waterdeep Dragon Heist Platinum Edition box from Beadle & Grimm's to unlock the digital version of the adventure on DDB. If you haven't seen that product, I definitely encourage you to check it out!
We have also introduced a new system to redeem product keys to unlock D&D Beyond content that will immediately be used for purchasers of the Waterdeep Dragon Heist Platinum Edition box from Beadle & Grimm's to unlock the digital version of the adventure on DDB. If you haven't seen that product, I definitely encourage you to check it out!
The cost of the digital product is probably included in the cost of the Beadle & Grimm's version. I doubt you're getting it for free by purchasing the boxed set. DDB has to get paid for their work.
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You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
We have also introduced a new system to redeem product keys to unlock D&D Beyond content that will immediately be used for purchasers of the Waterdeep Dragon Heist Platinum Edition box from Beadle & Grimm's to unlock the digital version of the adventure on DDB. If you haven't seen that product, I definitely encourage you to check it out!
The cost of the digital product is probably included in the cost of the Beadle & Grimm's version. I doubt you're getting it for free by purchasing the boxed set. DDB has to get paid for their work.
I also doubt you're getting it for free, but I also doubt you're paying full price for it either. It's $500 for a ton of stuff besides the physical copy and product key so it's hard for either of us to say.
It's really not that hard to look at what is included in the bundle of goodies, subtract a reasonable price for each included item, and find enough left over in the $500 total to cover the digital bits.
It's really not that hard to look at what is included in the bundle of goodies, subtract a reasonable price for each included item, and find enough left over in the $500 total to cover the digital bits.
If $500 is less than the sum cost of the parts I don't think you could assume which parts are discounted without knowing the deals made behind the scenes, right?
An example of a non-sensical response would be to say that the content purchased registry is a bad business model while still saying that DDB is doing successful business (because they use the content purchased registry model). Another non-sensical response would be to say that the people have spoken and they like DDB when DDB uses a content purchased registry which is exactly what I'm saying to do. Another non-productive avenue is to explain how difficult and improbable it'd be for WotC to implement a content purchased registry. Although true, for me it isn't an acceptable end. I am willing to talk about and strive for ideals in the future. Another non-productive avenue is talking about specific prices and comparing them. It's beside the point. Those are the reasons why I got sucked in here.
The point is this. DDB uses a content purchased registry and they like it, let's admit we like it, and we'd all like it if it was adopted throughout an entire edition someday. I think that's what people were hoping for when they get merged into this thread, that that was already accomplished. There's nothing wrong with them for thinking that's how it might already be.
But you are the one who wanted to compare pricing and say that DDB wasn't discounted enough. When it really is..like a lot. And yes, i think when comparing, you need to compare apples to apples. Thus the compendium vs the physical book is the only comparison you can and should be making. If you want to include the cool tools, then yeah, i think you should pay for the work. End of story. This all there should be to it. The rest is out of DDB's control. We try to explain this to everyone who gets merged here because they wrongly think that DDB is WotC and then they want a freebie, right now, on something they already purchased when there was nothing offered to that point. Some get defensive, some get mad, others see the truth of it, some just like to argue.
I am sure that other companies use tools that we wish could be adopted across the entire industry, but it doesn't happen. There is a thing called propitiatory software/tools/etc. And yes there is something wrong with people thinking this. it is not how it works and we have explained it through 32 pages.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
We have also introduced a new system to redeem product keys to unlock D&D Beyond content that will immediately be used for purchasers of the Waterdeep Dragon Heist Platinum Edition box from Beadle & Grimm's to unlock the digital version of the adventure on DDB. If you haven't seen that product, I definitely encourage you to check it out!
This is the Platinum Edition of Waterdeep: Dragon Heist for Dungeons & Dragons. Produced by Beadle & Grimm's under an arrangement with Wizards of the Coast.
My guess is they have also made an arraignment with DDB in cooperation of WotC to offer the DDB code. So no, they have not "started to do this." Beadle & Grimm is again, a 3rd party. I am sure they got a deal somewhere that makes this $500 bundle a profit someplace so no, we cannot be sure how much they are paying for anything.
Once you show me a WotC official notice (and not a 3rd party or a vendor) that when I buy the book, i get a code from DDB, then I can agree with you. Otherwise, I could be a vendor, purchase a DDB gift code and include it (or as in this case, a special code for a single product) with a purchase and it still wouldn't be official from WotC.
Also, still a single site and not cross platform that works with DDB/FG/Roll20
Wrong "if" for this statement. The "if" here that you are actually proposing is "What if the point of this product [isn't] to turn a profit?"
Since I view it as safe to assume that a premium, extra expensive (prohibitively so, even) product is designed to make a profit, I find it naturally follows to assume that the "free" digital version is - as with Paizo giving "free" digital versions when you buy your physical products directly from them, cutting the distributor and seller out of the pricing equation without reducing the price accordingly are - actually getting paid for and that detail is being obfuscated for the sake marketing.
Since I view it as safe to assume that a premium, extra expensive (prohibitively so, even) product is designed to make a profit, I find it naturally follows to assume that the "free" digital version is - as with Paizo giving "free" digital versions when you buy your physical products directly from them, cutting the distributor and seller out of the pricing equation without reducing the price accordingly are - actually getting paid for and that detail is being obfuscated for the sake marketing.
That was a really long, complex sentence. Incomprehensible to me. Can anyone translate?
Since I view it as safe to assume that a premium, extra expensive (prohibitively so, even) product is designed to make a profit, I find it naturally follows to assume that the "free" digital version is - as with Paizo giving "free" digital versions when you buy your physical products directly from them, cutting the distributor and seller out of the pricing equation without reducing the price accordingly are - actually getting paid for and that detail is being obfuscated for the sake marketing.
That was a really long, complex sentence. Incomprehensible to me. Can anyone translate?
It means the "free" digital copy might very well not be free at all given the ludicrously high price of the product, which makes it virtually impossible to know the actual value of each component.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
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this is an almost apt analogy. I purchased the physical movie at a B&M (Target) paying full price and now I want the digital version, from a different vendor (Vundo, Redbox, Netflix) for free since it is the same content and same publisher.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
The feat example is by far the closest and most relevant.
I disagree, the feat example is you bought a portion of the whole. You cannot buy a portion of the physical book. you have to buy it all or nothing no matter where you buy it. the only option you have is where to buy it from. You could argue the amount, but that is really an extension of where you decide to buy it.
Lets be honest, the ability to purchase a book a portion at a time is a DDB exclusive and available no where else that i am aware of. To use this as a comparison is down right negligent of the bigger issue.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Negligent? I think that's an overreaction. Negligent of what bigger issue? That you cannot buy a portion of the physical book? Doesn't Phandelver contain only a portion of the PHB? Can't parts of Xanathar's be found in other books, like individual spells? Even if those avenues don't pan out, from my perspective when you buy something on DDB you are buying a portion of what the book contains, the same content. And even if you don't share my perspective, and you think it's true that you cannot buy a portion of the physical book, it is irrelevant to the point that I've been trying to make. The feat example really is the best for getting across my point. Btw in case my point wasn't clear, here it is again
DDB internally has a content purchased registry used to provide discounts on purchases with overlapping content and they are reportedly (by many people here) doing successful business. Also, I find that business model to inspire confidence in my purchases. And so I think it should be applied across the whole 5e product, not just DDB. Facts that it would be really difficult or unlikely to happen do nothing to replace my lost confidence.
I'm confused by what you mean by overlapping content, unless you just mean that they have a way to discount a book by the amount you already paid for a feat/race or etc, because I do not get a discount on a book just because the same race is in two books, well no bigger discount than that which i have already gotten from the retail price.
And this is DDB internally doing this. So even if they have something at allows micro transactions to occur (such as we have x number of sold feats/races/whatever which make up a book so therefore we owe WotC a licence cost), to go across different companies, that would have to be done by WotC, unless WotC contracts out for a 3rd party to track this, and i am sure that something either in the license agreement or just general principle wouldn't allow a current licensee to do it. Thus we need to ask WotC about doing this and not DDB. from what I can tell, WotC has no intention of doing this.
This would start to interfere with those companies business because next would be "I created my character on this platform and now i want to be able to use it on that platform without redoing the work". While a reasonable request, then this would
causeforce these companies to work together. It could also cause limitation into the market because what if, after all, DDB wants to get into the VTT market and now feels like they cannot compete against FG and R20.I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Yep. If you're looking to make this known or instill change, I would highly recommend contacting WOTC on such matters to voice your opinion on their intellectual property distributions.
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This is a very appropriate reaction to my point that makes sense. Yeah I've been pointing the finger at WotC since the beginning of my involvement in this thread. I have posted there but it's basically a ghost town compared to the activity here. Any visibility anywhere on this issue is progress imo. And even though I've been trying to make this point and get a sensible reaction like this I've also had a lot of push back that, to me, didn't seem to make sense and that's how I got sucked in here.
And I get why you would get that here because it seems like you want DDB to do something about this when they can’t. Sorry WotC is a ghost town, but twitter would be a great place to start. They have several of the developers and their own channel. Also Facebook if you can find an official forum.
You only got sucked into here because we responded to you and had a discussion about it.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
An example of a non-sensical response would be to say that the content purchased registry is a bad business model while still saying that DDB is doing successful business (because they use the content purchased registry model). Another non-sensical response would be to say that the people have spoken and they like DDB when DDB uses a content purchased registry which is exactly what I'm saying to do. Another non-productive avenue is to explain how difficult and improbable it'd be for WotC to implement a content purchased registry. Although true, for me it isn't an acceptable end. I am willing to talk about and strive for ideals in the future. Another non-productive avenue is talking about specific prices and comparing them. It's beside the point. Those are the reasons why I got sucked in here.
The point is this. DDB uses a content purchased registry and they like it, let's admit we like it, and we'd all like it if it was adopted throughout an entire edition someday. I think that's what people were hoping for when they get merged into this thread, that that was already accomplished. There's nothing wrong with them for thinking that's how it might already be.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Is this what I think it is?
https://www.dndbeyond.com/changelog/324-mobile-sheet-swiping-and-product-key-redemption
Looks like they've already started doing it.
The cost of the digital product is probably included in the cost of the Beadle & Grimm's version. I doubt you're getting it for free by purchasing the boxed set. DDB has to get paid for their work.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I also doubt you're getting it for free, but I also doubt you're paying full price for it either. It's $500 for a ton of stuff besides the physical copy and product key so it's hard for either of us to say.
It's really not that hard to look at what is included in the bundle of goodies, subtract a reasonable price for each included item, and find enough left over in the $500 total to cover the digital bits.
If $500 is less than the sum cost of the parts I don't think you could assume which parts are discounted without knowing the deals made behind the scenes, right?
But you are the one who wanted to compare pricing and say that DDB wasn't discounted enough. When it really is..like a lot. And yes, i think when comparing, you need to compare apples to apples. Thus the compendium vs the physical book is the only comparison you can and should be making. If you want to include the cool tools, then yeah, i think you should pay for the work. End of story. This all there should be to it. The rest is out of DDB's control.
We try to explain this to everyone who gets merged here because they wrongly think that DDB is WotC and then they want a freebie, right now, on something they already purchased when there was nothing offered to that point. Some get defensive, some get mad, others see the truth of it, some just like to argue.
I am sure that other companies use tools that we wish could be adopted across the entire industry, but it doesn't happen. There is a thing called propitiatory software/tools/etc. And yes there is something wrong with people thinking this. it is not how it works and we have explained it through 32 pages.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Still not WotC doing this. From the site itself:
My guess is they have also made an arraignment with DDB in cooperation of WotC to offer the DDB code. So no, they have not "started to do this." Beadle & Grimm is again, a 3rd party. I am sure they got a deal somewhere that makes this $500 bundle a profit someplace so no, we cannot be sure how much they are paying for anything.
Once you show me a WotC official notice (and not a 3rd party or a vendor) that when I buy the book, i get a code from DDB, then I can agree with you. Otherwise, I could be a vendor, purchase a DDB gift code and include it (or as in this case, a special code for a single product) with a purchase and it still wouldn't be official from WotC.
Also, still a single site and not cross platform that works with DDB/FG/Roll20
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Wrong "if" for this statement. The "if" here that you are actually proposing is "What if the point of this product [isn't] to turn a profit?"
Since I view it as safe to assume that a premium, extra expensive (prohibitively so, even) product is designed to make a profit, I find it naturally follows to assume that the "free" digital version is - as with Paizo giving "free" digital versions when you buy your physical products directly from them, cutting the distributor and seller out of the pricing equation without reducing the price accordingly are - actually getting paid for and that detail is being obfuscated for the sake marketing.
That was a really long, complex sentence. Incomprehensible to me. Can anyone translate?
It means the "free" digital copy might very well not be free at all given the ludicrously high price of the product, which makes it virtually impossible to know the actual value of each component.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games