All HCs start at 1st and cap between 10-15. AL mods cap at 20. Am I the only old school gamer that doesn’t like having favorite 5e characters forced into retirement but instead long for an AL legal mod or HC reminiscent of the Bloodstone adventure where we can continue to play our epic characters well beyond hitting 20th? Any chance that we will one day see a HC where we don’t have to start over and can begin play with these PCs that have been forced into retirement due to lack of material? Maybe a season that releases 2 HCs for the story line? One that’s 1-16th LVL and another that’s tier 4 and beyond but is occurring simultaneously during the season’s timeline?
Because of two things which are true of the upper level-range of the D&D game - that most characters played up to that point have all sorts of little group-specific things they care about or are embroiled with (i.e. all the off-book embellishments the group has made up to that point in the campaign that the authors of an adventure couldn't possibly meaningfully incorporate nor replace in their writing) that make their DM the one best equipped to write the appropriate continuation of their story, and that the majority of folks playing the game, for one reason or another, don't want to play the game at that level - it seems unlikely for more than the smallest nod of support at such things to be done officially.
That said, I run things for my group and we don't stop until they are done playing that particular set of characters or I've completely run out of ideas as to what shenanigans they could get up to. The epic boons from the Dungeon Master's Guide, and otherwise halting mechanical upward progression at 20th level, have made the D&D game unlimited for me like it was back in the days when the Bloodstone modules came out (before the rules started placing arbitrary limits on even human character levels).
So my best advice, as unhelpful as it might be, is to start with something published or AL-legal, and when it is "over" invite the people that finished it with you to continue on despite the AL (I've always felt organized play was good for finding a group of players to play home games with, sitting in on a game while in-between groups or out of town with time to spare, and not a whole lot else).
I’m not sure I agree with you here. First, I don’t see how making a tier 4+ appropriate HC for a new season would be an issue story-wise. My oldest AL character has played AL mods in conventions from all 7 seasons at this point. My next highest character has played from season 3 to current content. The differences in their histories and the mods they play when the new season come out don’t cause issues in stories on the new seasons material. Why would a tier 4 HC be different.
Second, I think you make an assumption that this would not fill a gap out there that people want. Not only are there players like me that go to a lot of conventions and have a lot of high level characters. I always see the same crowd. But any strictly home gamers that finished RoT or OotA, for instance, can pick those characters back up and play them again. The magic item trading posts on FAcebook and such are full of players who have PCs that hit 20th level and wholesale their items since they can never play them again. Or they trade their nonsense items of these forced-retirement PCs to other AL PCs that they run. “Did you get a Tome of Leadership for your stud? Why use it on a guy you’ll only be able to play for a few more months? Trade it to your 5th lvl bard for his +2 Leather since he also has +1 (or better) Studded Leather anyway.” Having hope for official AL content for your high level characters may keep these PCs from becoming a fire sale on AL sites once they hit tier 4 or at least approach 20th.
Besides, what’s the point of ooh’ing and aah’ing over the 20th Lvl abilities for each class if WotC never had any intention of releasing any material where we could use them. Every other edition also had high level progression paths for classes in their rendition of the PHB. The only difference with 5e is that we have no printed materials where we can play characters that have reached the levels that the 5e PHB sets guidelines for.
i think there is a demand for this and think your assumption that players don’t want it is wrong. In previous editions I never read on any forums that their high level material was unwanted. In fact, I hear the opposite where players don’t like always having to start over. LVL 1 is the least favorite level to play, is it not?
I’m fine with using Epic Boons to advance characters beyond 20th but just wish there was printed content available for us to use them.
First, I don’t see how making a tier 4+ appropriate HC for a new season would be an issue story-wise.
With that particular detail, I am only repeating what WotC staff have said on the topic. So if you disagree on that, it's with them, not with me. Since it wasn't my claim, I won't defend it.
Second, I think you make an assumption that this would not fill a gap out there that people want.
I'm not assuming that. At most, I'm assuming that WotC's survey information they collecting regarding when people's campaigns do end and when they want them to end is accurate. That survey information said that people who want the last tier of the game at their tables, which I should clarify includes me because I'm not sure I got that across in my earlier post, are a severely outnumbered minority.
Besides, what’s the point of ooh’ing and aah’ing over the 20th Lvl abilities for each class if WotC never had any intention of releasing any material where we could use them.
I fully believe that WotC were doing everything they thought was worth the effort to try and persuade more of the player base to extend their game play into the upper tier of the game... and then when they surveyed to see how their efforts had paid off, and found that even though 5th edition doesn't have the same issues at those high levels as prior editions suffered from and people would use as explanation as to why they don't play at those levels, so they are pretty much done with that because it is a large amount of effort on their part for little to no change for the majority of play groups (those already interested in that range of play are doing it with what support is already there, and those not already interested in that level range also, statistically speaking, aren't interested in becoming interested in it any time soon).
i think there is a demand for this and think your assumption that players don’t want it is wrong.
Again, it's not an assumption. It's what survey results indicate.
In previous editions I never read on any forums that their high level material was unwanted. In fact, I hear the opposite where players don’t like always having to start over.
Those aren't exactly mutually exclusive. A person can be unsatisfied with how the high-level game plays and unsatisfied with starting over, it's just that what they want as a result isn't "put out high-level adventures" so much as "make the game play how I like it to for a longer period of time." Which is why there is a fan-driven rules overhaul of 3.5 called E6, but not a large library of fan-authored high-level adventures.
LVL 1 is the least favorite level to play, is it not?
From everything I have seen, whether it is the least favorite level to play generally speaking or not, it is still the generally preferred starting level of the majority of D&D groups. Not me, of course. I start my 5th edition games at 4th level more often than not.
I’m fine with using Epic Boons to advance characters beyond 20th but just wish there was printed content available for us to use them.
I get that. I'd like it too, since then I could build on that work instead of entirely doing all the work myself when I'm not in the mood to do it all myself... but that doesn't change my knowing that my answers to the survey conducted about when people want their campaigns to end were only shared by a small percentage of the respondents.
So what I do to help make up for the lack is to mine content from previous editions. Such as the CM and M series of adventure modules, a few of which are available on the DMs Guild store.
Hmmm. Well, I have to say that I really appreciate your responses. I had no knowledge of the surveys. I’ll still hold out hope here, I guess, and when time allows I’ll probably do as you do and look to past editions for material. Still a bummer though. Thanks again for your input!
1st big hurdle? WOTC will have to publish information for post lvl 20 characters.
They already did. It's in the DMG under "Epic Boons."
That's it's not the 3.5 era approach of "More levels and shedloads of new powers!" means more of the already existent content for the game will stay relevant, rather than requiring a whole new set of challenges for characters that also have shedloads of new powers in ways that make game-play feel pretty much the same as the normal level range, but with larger numbers (example: having an 80% chance to hit, but with a +35 to your attack instead of of +15)
you are right...I had forgotten about the Epic Boons. I play mostly Adventurers League and the Boons are not legal yet...HOWEVER, AL does produce tier 3 and 4 content....it is located out on DMs Guild. You could check that out if you are looking for tier 4 content....nothing that is beyond that though.
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Former AL Sr. LC for DFW. Co-coord for AL at Common Ground, Dallas.
Sounds like level 21+ is similar to reaching level cap in MMOs - tiny increments that add up. Let's hope they don't go down the route of having encounters mathematically balanced for a squad of 5 effectively-the-same characters so that tactics have to be perfect or you will lose, similar to raid zone bosses. I do miss wielding my +7 Vampiric Thundering Great-axe of Dragon Bane against Paragon Trolls, Mithral Golems, and LeShay warriors. And Prismatic Dragons of course. ;)
"Roll to hit AC 47."
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Roleplaying since Runequest.
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All HCs start at 1st and cap between 10-15. AL mods cap at 20. Am I the only old school gamer that doesn’t like having favorite 5e characters forced into retirement but instead long for an AL legal mod or HC reminiscent of the Bloodstone adventure where we can continue to play our epic characters well beyond hitting 20th? Any chance that we will one day see a HC where we don’t have to start over and can begin play with these PCs that have been forced into retirement due to lack of material? Maybe a season that releases 2 HCs for the story line? One that’s 1-16th LVL and another that’s tier 4 and beyond but is occurring simultaneously during the season’s timeline?
Because of two things which are true of the upper level-range of the D&D game - that most characters played up to that point have all sorts of little group-specific things they care about or are embroiled with (i.e. all the off-book embellishments the group has made up to that point in the campaign that the authors of an adventure couldn't possibly meaningfully incorporate nor replace in their writing) that make their DM the one best equipped to write the appropriate continuation of their story, and that the majority of folks playing the game, for one reason or another, don't want to play the game at that level - it seems unlikely for more than the smallest nod of support at such things to be done officially.
That said, I run things for my group and we don't stop until they are done playing that particular set of characters or I've completely run out of ideas as to what shenanigans they could get up to. The epic boons from the Dungeon Master's Guide, and otherwise halting mechanical upward progression at 20th level, have made the D&D game unlimited for me like it was back in the days when the Bloodstone modules came out (before the rules started placing arbitrary limits on even human character levels).
So my best advice, as unhelpful as it might be, is to start with something published or AL-legal, and when it is "over" invite the people that finished it with you to continue on despite the AL (I've always felt organized play was good for finding a group of players to play home games with, sitting in on a game while in-between groups or out of town with time to spare, and not a whole lot else).
I’m not sure I agree with you here. First, I don’t see how making a tier 4+ appropriate HC for a new season would be an issue story-wise. My oldest AL character has played AL mods in conventions from all 7 seasons at this point. My next highest character has played from season 3 to current content. The differences in their histories and the mods they play when the new season come out don’t cause issues in stories on the new seasons material. Why would a tier 4 HC be different.
Second, I think you make an assumption that this would not fill a gap out there that people want. Not only are there players like me that go to a lot of conventions and have a lot of high level characters. I always see the same crowd. But any strictly home gamers that finished RoT or OotA, for instance, can pick those characters back up and play them again. The magic item trading posts on FAcebook and such are full of players who have PCs that hit 20th level and wholesale their items since they can never play them again. Or they trade their nonsense items of these forced-retirement PCs to other AL PCs that they run. “Did you get a Tome of Leadership for your stud? Why use it on a guy you’ll only be able to play for a few more months? Trade it to your 5th lvl bard for his +2 Leather since he also has +1 (or better) Studded Leather anyway.” Having hope for official AL content for your high level characters may keep these PCs from becoming a fire sale on AL sites once they hit tier 4 or at least approach 20th.
Besides, what’s the point of ooh’ing and aah’ing over the 20th Lvl abilities for each class if WotC never had any intention of releasing any material where we could use them. Every other edition also had high level progression paths for classes in their rendition of the PHB. The only difference with 5e is that we have no printed materials where we can play characters that have reached the levels that the 5e PHB sets guidelines for.
i think there is a demand for this and think your assumption that players don’t want it is wrong. In previous editions I never read on any forums that their high level material was unwanted. In fact, I hear the opposite where players don’t like always having to start over. LVL 1 is the least favorite level to play, is it not?
I’m fine with using Epic Boons to advance characters beyond 20th but just wish there was printed content available for us to use them.
With that particular detail, I am only repeating what WotC staff have said on the topic. So if you disagree on that, it's with them, not with me. Since it wasn't my claim, I won't defend it.
I'm not assuming that. At most, I'm assuming that WotC's survey information they collecting regarding when people's campaigns do end and when they want them to end is accurate. That survey information said that people who want the last tier of the game at their tables, which I should clarify includes me because I'm not sure I got that across in my earlier post, are a severely outnumbered minority.So what I do to help make up for the lack is to mine content from previous editions. Such as the CM and M series of adventure modules, a few of which are available on the DMs Guild store.
Hmmm. Well, I have to say that I really appreciate your responses. I had no knowledge of the surveys. I’ll still hold out hope here, I guess, and when time allows I’ll probably do as you do and look to past editions for material. Still a bummer though. Thanks again for your input!
1st big hurdle? WOTC will have to publish information for post lvl 20 characters.
Former AL Sr. LC for DFW.
Co-coord for AL at Common Ground, Dallas.
AL Characters:
you are right...I had forgotten about the Epic Boons. I play mostly Adventurers League and the Boons are not legal yet...HOWEVER, AL does produce tier 3 and 4 content....it is located out on DMs Guild. You could check that out if you are looking for tier 4 content....nothing that is beyond that though.
Former AL Sr. LC for DFW.
Co-coord for AL at Common Ground, Dallas.
AL Characters:
Sounds like level 21+ is similar to reaching level cap in MMOs - tiny increments that add up.
Let's hope they don't go down the route of having encounters mathematically balanced for a squad of 5 effectively-the-same characters so that tactics have to be perfect or you will lose, similar to raid zone bosses.
I do miss wielding my +7 Vampiric Thundering Great-axe of Dragon Bane against Paragon Trolls, Mithral Golems, and LeShay warriors. And Prismatic Dragons of course. ;)
"Roll to hit AC 47."
Roleplaying since Runequest.