Hey all! Ignatius “Iggy” Parish here, your friendly neighborhood teifling warlock. So, we’re traipsing our way through Avernus, or Elturel to be more accurate at the moment, and my imp familiar got WTFPWNed by our party’s Druid who thunderclapped without realizing the imp was in the AOE. I threw a persuade roll at a Spined Devil during combat and convinced it that it would be better off serving me instead of exploding like the last one I threw an EB at. I rolled a 24, it failed to resist. So, questions as follows.
1. As far as I can tell by searching the web this isn’t a normal Familiar/Master relationship and therefore the Spined Devil is more an NPC instead of mine to actually control. Is this accurate or should I assume I’m now able to direct it as though it was indeed my own familiar?
2. If it is indeed more of a contractual bond and not mine to control does this mean I can recast Find Familiar and regain a new Imp to control while maintaining the contract?
With Lulu, Slobberchops, and Rheya we’ve got more than enough NPC for the DM to hassle with and if it’s just going to be something more for him to deal with I’d be just as happy dismissing the Devil and summoning a new Imp.
If you are playing the Descent in to Avernus hardcover as an AL game then there is what happens in the module and what happens in terms of AL characters.
The general AL guidance is the following (from the content catalog):
"It Followed Me Home, Honest! At certain points in these adventures the characters may have a chance to acquire dragon eggs, owlbear eggs, or some other exotic unborn version of a monster. These creatures are never suitable as pets, familiars, animal companions, and so on, though a character may retain it as a non-mechanical companion at a DM’s discretion."
I would expect that, in general, this guidance would also apply to a devil following you home.
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HOWEVER :), Descent into Avernus includes making deals with devils as part of the module. The only guidance on these is the following.
"Appendix A: Diabolical Deals Deals with Devils: The following guidance applies: • The gold gained can’t exceed the character’s GP Limit. • Archdevil charms count against the characters Magic Item Limit."
This says nothing about making deals for the service of devils which are explicitly allowed in appendix A. From an AL point of view, I think the DM would be within the AL rules to allow you to keep the devil and the deal made as a story award while playing Descent into Avernus since it is consistent with the hardcover content (the devil would join you as a loyal NPC). However, the "followed me home" general ruling would prevent you from actually keeping the devil as yours in the long term.
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As far as making a deal with a devil goes ... appendix A covers it and as long as you are actually in the 9 hells then you can make such a deal since a Spined Devil is a lesser devil. If you aren't actually in the 9 hells then the spined devil can NOT choose to make a deal and if they aren't in the nine hells then they can't be killed anyway (when "killed" outside the nine hells they just reform on their home plane) so they would have no motivation to make a deal in the first place.
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Here are some of the rules on making a deal. If you are in the nine hells then you could make a deal and it is up to the DM whether just sparing its life is sufficient motivation to obtain the devils loyal service. Normally it would not be enough.
"Least devils can't enter into deals. Lesser and greater devils can enter into deals either for themselves or as an intermediary for their infernal superiors."
"Lesser and greater devils can't freely make deals outside of their home plane"
Coming up with a deal requires both sides to offer something. If you are dealing with a lesser devil then they have to be in their home plane or they can't make a deal.
"The terms of the deal require, at a minimum, the devil to offer a gift and the character to agree to a price. If the terms aren't acceptable to either party, they can negotiate and try to sweeten the deal by offering more valuable terms, or simply walk away. Not every deal is meant to be."
Devils want souls or services and offer gold, magic items and service.
"Devils might also agree to serve mortals for a time, acting as advisors and bodyguards."
The services required by the devil in exchange for a contract "Such services drive the character toward committing evil or morally questionable acts designed to make the character more amenable to darker deals in the future."
Ok. So yes you can make a deal with a devil. This deal can include the services of said devil. A lesser devil can offer the following.
"LESSER DEVILS A lesser devil can offer any or all of the following: • Up to 500 gp worth of art objects, coins, or gems • An uncommon magic item • Loyal service for a period not exceeding nine years"
However, even with your good persuasion roll, it might not be free. You and your DM will need to work out what sort of deal it would accept. You need to be in the Nine Hells to make a deal in the first place, however, a spined devil killed on its home plane is destroyed forever so it will likely be motivated to make as generous a deal as it can though its life may not be enough depending on the DM.
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So, in AL, I'd say yes you can make a deal with a devil that includes the "loyal" service of that devil for a period not to exceed 9 years. However, based on the "It followed me home" guidance I don't think you can keep it and it would be up to the DM whether to allow it to stay on as an NPC while you play Descent into Avernus.
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Finally, a devil's contract is not a familiar. You can recast find familiar and summon up your imp if you wish. Keep in mind that your imp is not an actual imp, it is a fey, fiend or celestial spirit in the shape of an imp and uses the stats in the PHB and not the monster manual (e.g. an imp familiar does not share magic resistance with its master since that is reserved for the variant imp familiar rule in the PHB where a magic user makes a specific deal with an imp ... which is not allowed AL)
Hey all! Ignatius “Iggy” Parish here, your friendly neighborhood teifling warlock. So, we’re traipsing our way through Avernus, or Elturel to be more accurate at the moment, and my imp familiar got WTFPWNed by our party’s Druid who thunderclapped without realizing the imp was in the AOE. I threw a persuade roll at a Spined Devil during combat and convinced it that it would be better off serving me instead of exploding like the last one I threw an EB at. I rolled a 24, it failed to resist. So, questions as follows.
1. As far as I can tell by searching the web this isn’t a normal Familiar/Master relationship and therefore the Spined Devil is more an NPC instead of mine to actually control. Is this accurate or should I assume I’m now able to direct it as though it was indeed my own familiar?
2. If it is indeed more of a contractual bond and not mine to control does this mean I can recast Find Familiar and regain a new Imp to control while maintaining the contract?
With Lulu, Slobberchops, and Rheya we’ve got more than enough NPC for the DM to hassle with and if it’s just going to be something more for him to deal with I’d be just as happy dismissing the Devil and summoning a new Imp.
Thanks all!
There are a couple of things to consider.
If you are playing the Descent in to Avernus hardcover as an AL game then there is what happens in the module and what happens in terms of AL characters.
The general AL guidance is the following (from the content catalog):
"It Followed Me Home, Honest!
At certain points in these adventures the characters may have a chance to acquire dragon eggs, owlbear eggs, or some other exotic unborn version of a monster. These creatures are never suitable as pets, familiars, animal companions, and so on, though a character may retain it as a non-mechanical companion at a DM’s discretion."
I would expect that, in general, this guidance would also apply to a devil following you home.
----------
HOWEVER :), Descent into Avernus includes making deals with devils as part of the module. The only guidance on these is the following.
"Appendix A: Diabolical Deals
Deals with Devils: The following guidance applies:
• The gold gained can’t exceed the character’s GP Limit.
• Archdevil charms count against the characters Magic Item Limit."
This says nothing about making deals for the service of devils which are explicitly allowed in appendix A. From an AL point of view, I think the DM would be within the AL rules to allow you to keep the devil and the deal made as a story award while playing Descent into Avernus since it is consistent with the hardcover content (the devil would join you as a loyal NPC). However, the "followed me home" general ruling would prevent you from actually keeping the devil as yours in the long term.
------
As far as making a deal with a devil goes ... appendix A covers it and as long as you are actually in the 9 hells then you can make such a deal since a Spined Devil is a lesser devil. If you aren't actually in the 9 hells then the spined devil can NOT choose to make a deal and if they aren't in the nine hells then they can't be killed anyway (when "killed" outside the nine hells they just reform on their home plane) so they would have no motivation to make a deal in the first place.
-----
Here are some of the rules on making a deal. If you are in the nine hells then you could make a deal and it is up to the DM whether just sparing its life is sufficient motivation to obtain the devils loyal service. Normally it would not be enough.
"Least devils can't enter into deals. Lesser and greater devils can enter into deals either for themselves or as an intermediary for their infernal superiors."
"Lesser and greater devils can't freely make deals outside of their home plane"
Coming up with a deal requires both sides to offer something. If you are dealing with a lesser devil then they have to be in their home plane or they can't make a deal.
"The terms of the deal require, at a minimum, the devil to offer a gift and the character to agree to a price. If the terms aren't acceptable to either party, they can negotiate and try to sweeten the deal by offering more valuable terms, or simply walk away. Not every deal is meant to be."
Devils want souls or services and offer gold, magic items and service.
"Devils might also agree to serve mortals for a time, acting as advisors and bodyguards."
The services required by the devil in exchange for a contract "Such services drive the character toward committing evil or morally questionable acts designed to make the character more
amenable to darker deals in the future."
Ok. So yes you can make a deal with a devil. This deal can include the services of said devil. A lesser devil can offer the following.
"LESSER DEVILS
A lesser devil can offer any or all of the following:
• Up to 500 gp worth of art objects, coins, or gems
• An uncommon magic item
• Loyal service for a period not exceeding nine years"
However, even with your good persuasion roll, it might not be free. You and your DM will need to work out what sort of deal it would accept. You need to be in the Nine Hells to make a deal in the first place, however, a spined devil killed on its home plane is destroyed forever so it will likely be motivated to make as generous a deal as it can though its life may not be enough depending on the DM.
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So, in AL, I'd say yes you can make a deal with a devil that includes the "loyal" service of that devil for a period not to exceed 9 years. However, based on the "It followed me home" guidance I don't think you can keep it and it would be up to the DM whether to allow it to stay on as an NPC while you play Descent into Avernus.
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Finally, a devil's contract is not a familiar. You can recast find familiar and summon up your imp if you wish. Keep in mind that your imp is not an actual imp, it is a fey, fiend or celestial spirit in the shape of an imp and uses the stats in the PHB and not the monster manual (e.g. an imp familiar does not share magic resistance with its master since that is reserved for the variant imp familiar rule in the PHB where a magic user makes a specific deal with an imp ... which is not allowed AL)
You sir are fantastic! In all of my years on forums of various sorts this is hands down the most thoughtful and helpful reply I’ve ever come across.
Thank you, and may all of your saves be Nat 20s.