First off, I'm really new at D&D, and so maybe my judgements are a bit off on how things work.
So, I'm really interested in the concept of a shape-shifting fighter who can change into various creatures to fight and do lots of things that would be off limits to most humanoids. I like the idea of the Circle of the Moon, but the whole wildshaping thing seems less than ideal.
So, from level 2 to level 5, you can only transform into CR1 or below. I've flicked through the Monster's Manual, and it seemed like most CR1 or below creatures are actually worse than the druid that turned into it. Maybe I'm just not understanding something, but most of their HP seemed to be around 20ish, which would be about the HP of a level 2 Druid. You also have to level up 3 times in order to increase the max CR, and it goes up by 1. Now admittedly I haven't really looked into it, but intuitively, that seems like the disparity would only get worse.
You're also limited to what you've seen. I understand the reasoning - you don't want every druid being able to turn into giant dragons or whatever - but it really limits what you can do, especially the creatures actually worth transforming into. Unless you come up with some whacky backstop, like you study dragons or something, then the more viable creatures are out of bounds.
Could someone explain how to play Moon Druid I a viable way? Or tell me I'm an idiot that doesn't understand how the game works. Either works! I'm just not sure how it's meant to be viable. All I can think of is to attack, then immediately morph into a creature as a bonus action, do attacks until you're about to die, revert back as an action, then morph again as a bonus action so you have full health again, attack until you're about to die, use bonus action to revert, and you're at full health while they've taken a bit of a beaten. Seems a bit gamey and not quite what I had in mind, though.
Also, I couldn't see more mundane creatures in the MM, where do you get the stat blocks etc for becoming, say, a bear?
Also, generally how strict are you about having seen the creature first? As in, is just coming up with a semi plausible story enough for you, or does it have to be a fully supported thing that makes it a real restriction?
Dragons are out, they’re not beasts, they’re dragons (which are their own type).
A CR 1 creature is a challenge for 4 level 1 characters (if the CR system works). That means it is about 4* as powerful as a level 1 character, and still much more powerful than a level 2 character. If you feel like a CR 1 creature is too low of a CR for a level 2 character to turn into, then you’ve got the opposite impression than most of the rest of the community. You seem to focus on HP, but remember, you are ADDING those HP to your Druid’s pool (when you run out of wild shape HP, you revert to your druids hp then take the remaining damage). You also get 2 wild shapes per short rest. You also get to be a full caster with a great spell list when you aren’t in your wild shape. You also get access to multiattack (the monster equivalent of extra attack) well before any other class. You also get to dump all of your physical stats and rely on the beast’s, meaning you only really have to worry about Wisdom and maybe Constitution (for when you aren’t wild shaped). You also probably do reasonable damage with a better attack bonus than most of your allies.You also can heal yourself at the cost of a spell slot and a bonus action. At level 2, a CR 1 creature is ridiculously more powerful than the rest of the party in combat, and you still get all the druid stuff (including lower CR wild shape forms) for utility.
For example, the CR 1 brown bear has 34 HP. A druid might have around 20. A druid using two wild shapes has effectively 4 times as many HP as a, say, cleric. It also attacks twice with a +6 to hit and good damage.
You did catch on to the biggest problem though, which is that it doesn’t scale very well. By level 6, CR 2 isn’t very impressive. Wildshape doesn’t get great again until level 10 (and again, doesn’t stay impressive for many levels) and again at 20th. Being able to wildshape and gain 126 effectively free HP every round for a bonus action is actually really powerful. Moon druid is very powerful at 2, but falls behind other martial classes beyond about 4th or 5th level. It almost catches up at 10th, then shoots ahead at the end of the game.
A druid likely only has around 15-17 hit points at 2nd level, so even 20 is a sizable increase. But most CR 1 beasts they can turn into have far more. The brown bear, and its 34 hit points, has already been called out. The dire wolf is another fun one. So are the giant hyena and tiger. And once beasts with a swim speed open up to you at 4th level, the giant octopus and giant toad become very attractive options.
Now, by 3rd level your druid might have, on average, 21-24 hit points. Every single one of these beasts has at least as much; even if their Armor Class is lower than the druid's in their humanoid form. But do you know what else your Circle of the Moon druid can do? You can use your action to Cast a Spell in the same turn you use your bonus action to use your Combat Wild Shape. Sure, you won't be attacking that first turn. But you could cast barkskin on yourself and have a beast form with 16 AC. And that's probably more than you would have as a humanoid. Or you could cast flaming sphere and use your bonus action to roll that around the battlefield on subsequent turns.
Every new level is a significant jump in power. Third gives you 2nd level spells. Fourth gives you a third cantrip and beasts with a swim speed. Fifth gives you 3rd level spells. Sixth gives you CR 2 beasts and magical attacks. Seventh gives you 4th level spells. Eighth gives you beasts with a fly speed. Ninth gives you both 5th level spells and CR 3 beasts. And tenth level gives you a fourth cantrip and Elemental Wild Shape.
Never forget that your druid is also a full spellcaster. You don't only have to turn into beasts to fight.
Could someone explain how to play Moon Druid I a viable way?
You can stay in your beast form for a long time - long enough for a short rest at level 2 as soon as you get Wild Shape, and long enough for a full long rest at level 16 (level 8 if you're an elf or reborn). You don't need to Wild Shape during combat - you can do so well ahead of time, and use your beast form for traveling, scouting (a mastiff or spider will often be ignored, depending on context), etc.
Also, I couldn't see more mundane creatures in the MM, where do you get the stat blocks etc for becoming, say, a bear?
Appendix A, on page 317, is where most of the MM animals live. There are also beasts in other sources.
Also, generally how strict are you about having seen the creature first? As in, is just coming up with a semi plausible story enough for you, or does it have to be a fully supported thing that makes it a real restriction?
Varies heavily by DM, but since druids can wild shape to expose each other to new shapes, and since druids canonically periodically get together to hang out, I generally don't restrict my players very heavily about this unless the creature doesn't even exist in my world.
Since you asked about levels 2-5, here are some popular beast choices for Moon Druid 2 and Moon Druid 4, ignoring setting-specific beasts:
2 (CR 1, no swim speed, no fly speed):
Brown Bear (much better at level 3, when you can combine it with Barkskin)
So, from level 2 to level 5, you can only transform into CR1 or below. I've flicked through the Monster's Manual, and it seemed like most CR1 or below creatures are actually worse than the druid that turned into it.
While this is somewhat true, it doesn't really matter that much in practice, as the reasons for wild-shaping can vary considerably. If you use it out of combat then you're probably using it to sneak in someplace, or to gain an ability that the creature has and you don't, like Keen Senses or such.
Even in combat, as quindraco points out there are a few decent options for both damage and durability; while you could do more damage by remaining as you were and using your strength as a fighter, or spells as a druid, you'd be doing so without gaining any hitpoints. Remember, the hitpoints of a wild-shape are in addition to your own. The thing to watch out for is that you don't drop your AC by too much by wild-shaping, as an attack that can turn you back will also do spillover damage (excess damage to the wild-shape applies to the druid itself) so you don't want to make yourself easier to hit by wild-shaping as it could mean allowing an enemy to bypass your normal AC.
Unless you come up with some whacky backstop, like you study dragons or something, then the more viable creatures are out of bounds.
Dragons aren't an option for wild-shaping (don't fit the CR anyway even if they were); to become a dragon you'd need to reach 17th level in Druid so you can cast Shapechange.
Could someone explain how to play Moon Druid I a viable way? Or tell me I'm an idiot that doesn't understand how the game works. Either works! I'm just not sure how it's meant to be viable. All I can think of is to attack, then immediately morph into a creature as a bonus action, do attacks until you're about to die, revert back as an action, then morph again as a bonus action so you have full health again, attack until you're about to die, use bonus action to revert, and you're at full health while they've taken a bit of a beaten. Seems a bit gamey and not quite what I had in mind, though.
You don't necessarily need to be wild-shaped the whole time to make it viable; wild-shape is as good for out of combat utility as it is for combat. Plus a Druid isn't helpless when they're not transformed, they're powerful elemental casters and have access some decent melee damage of their own if you prefer (via Shillelagh or Primal Savagery). You could just wild shape near the start of a fight to effectively gain hitpoints, then when you drop out fall back on your own attacks and spellcasting. You don't need to be wild-shaped as much as possible to make the most of being a druid, it's just an option you've got and as Circle of the Moon your wild-shapes are stronger.
If you haven't actually created your character yet you do have a few other options for a shape-changer; first is the Shifter race from Eberron (would need to ask your DM if they'd allow this) but it can shapeshift once per short rest to gain bonuses. You've also got the Path of the Beast (Tasha's Cauldron of Everything) sub-class for a Barbarian which shapeshifts while Raging. There are also "beast" races such as Dragonorn or Tabaxi that you could play as more primal, feral or tribal. It depends what you actually want to get out of shape-shifting really.
Also, I couldn't see more mundane creatures in the MM, where do you get the stat blocks etc for becoming, say, a bear?
First off, I'm really new at D&D, and so maybe my judgements are a bit off on how things work.
So, I'm really interested in the concept of a shape-shifting fighter who can change into various creatures to fight and do lots of things that would be off limits to most humanoids. I like the idea of the Circle of the Moon, but the whole wildshaping thing seems less than ideal.
So, from level 2 to level 5, you can only transform into CR1 or below. I've flicked through the Monster's Manual, and it seemed like most CR1 or below creatures are actually worse than the druid that turned into it. Maybe I'm just not understanding something, but most of their HP seemed to be around 20ish, which would be about the HP of a level 2 Druid. You also have to level up 3 times in order to increase the max CR, and it goes up by 1. Now admittedly I haven't really looked into it, but intuitively, that seems like the disparity would only get worse.
You're also limited to what you've seen. I understand the reasoning - you don't want every druid being able to turn into giant dragons or whatever - but it really limits what you can do, especially the creatures actually worth transforming into. Unless you come up with some whacky backstop, like you study dragons or something, then the more viable creatures are out of bounds.
Could someone explain how to play Moon Druid I a viable way? Or tell me I'm an idiot that doesn't understand how the game works. Either works! I'm just not sure how it's meant to be viable. All I can think of is to attack, then immediately morph into a creature as a bonus action, do attacks until you're about to die, revert back as an action, then morph again as a bonus action so you have full health again, attack until you're about to die, use bonus action to revert, and you're at full health while they've taken a bit of a beaten. Seems a bit gamey and not quite what I had in mind, though.
Also, I couldn't see more mundane creatures in the MM, where do you get the stat blocks etc for becoming, say, a bear?
Also, generally how strict are you about having seen the creature first? As in, is just coming up with a semi plausible story enough for you, or does it have to be a fully supported thing that makes it a real restriction?
Want to play D&D? Try the following resources first (each section withing vertical bars is a clickable link to find the resource).
|The free Basic Rules.|
|Some free short adventures| and |some more here too.| |Here is a series of encounters, some of which link together form a mini-adventure|.
They are mostly short adventures intended to be completed in one or two sessions (each session being a few hours long).
Dragons are out, they’re not beasts, they’re dragons (which are their own type).
A CR 1 creature is a challenge for 4 level 1 characters (if the CR system works). That means it is about 4* as powerful as a level 1 character, and still much more powerful than a level 2 character. If you feel like a CR 1 creature is too low of a CR for a level 2 character to turn into, then you’ve got the opposite impression than most of the rest of the community. You seem to focus on HP, but remember, you are ADDING those HP to your Druid’s pool (when you run out of wild shape HP, you revert to your druids hp then take the remaining damage). You also get 2 wild shapes per short rest. You also get to be a full caster with a great spell list when you aren’t in your wild shape. You also get access to multiattack (the monster equivalent of extra attack) well before any other class. You also get to dump all of your physical stats and rely on the beast’s, meaning you only really have to worry about Wisdom and maybe Constitution (for when you aren’t wild shaped). You also probably do reasonable damage with a better attack bonus than most of your allies.You also can heal yourself at the cost of a spell slot and a bonus action. At level 2, a CR 1 creature is ridiculously more powerful than the rest of the party in combat, and you still get all the druid stuff (including lower CR wild shape forms) for utility.
For example, the CR 1 brown bear has 34 HP. A druid might have around 20. A druid using two wild shapes has effectively 4 times as many HP as a, say, cleric. It also attacks twice with a +6 to hit and good damage.
You did catch on to the biggest problem though, which is that it doesn’t scale very well. By level 6, CR 2 isn’t very impressive. Wildshape doesn’t get great again until level 10 (and again, doesn’t stay impressive for many levels) and again at 20th. Being able to wildshape and gain 126 effectively free HP every round for a bonus action is actually really powerful. Moon druid is very powerful at 2, but falls behind other martial classes beyond about 4th or 5th level. It almost catches up at 10th, then shoots ahead at the end of the game.
A druid likely only has around 15-17 hit points at 2nd level, so even 20 is a sizable increase. But most CR 1 beasts they can turn into have far more. The brown bear, and its 34 hit points, has already been called out. The dire wolf is another fun one. So are the giant hyena and tiger. And once beasts with a swim speed open up to you at 4th level, the giant octopus and giant toad become very attractive options.
Now, by 3rd level your druid might have, on average, 21-24 hit points. Every single one of these beasts has at least as much; even if their Armor Class is lower than the druid's in their humanoid form. But do you know what else your Circle of the Moon druid can do? You can use your action to Cast a Spell in the same turn you use your bonus action to use your Combat Wild Shape. Sure, you won't be attacking that first turn. But you could cast barkskin on yourself and have a beast form with 16 AC. And that's probably more than you would have as a humanoid. Or you could cast flaming sphere and use your bonus action to roll that around the battlefield on subsequent turns.
Every new level is a significant jump in power. Third gives you 2nd level spells. Fourth gives you a third cantrip and beasts with a swim speed. Fifth gives you 3rd level spells. Sixth gives you CR 2 beasts and magical attacks. Seventh gives you 4th level spells. Eighth gives you beasts with a fly speed. Ninth gives you both 5th level spells and CR 3 beasts. And tenth level gives you a fourth cantrip and Elemental Wild Shape.
Never forget that your druid is also a full spellcaster. You don't only have to turn into beasts to fight.
Appendix A, on page 317, is where most of the MM animals live. There are also beasts in other sources.
Varies heavily by DM, but since druids can wild shape to expose each other to new shapes, and since druids canonically periodically get together to hang out, I generally don't restrict my players very heavily about this unless the creature doesn't even exist in my world.
Since you asked about levels 2-5, here are some popular beast choices for Moon Druid 2 and Moon Druid 4, ignoring setting-specific beasts:
2 (CR 1, no swim speed, no fly speed):
4 (CR 1, swim speed ok, no fly speed):
While this is somewhat true, it doesn't really matter that much in practice, as the reasons for wild-shaping can vary considerably. If you use it out of combat then you're probably using it to sneak in someplace, or to gain an ability that the creature has and you don't, like Keen Senses or such.
Even in combat, as quindraco points out there are a few decent options for both damage and durability; while you could do more damage by remaining as you were and using your strength as a fighter, or spells as a druid, you'd be doing so without gaining any hitpoints. Remember, the hitpoints of a wild-shape are in addition to your own. The thing to watch out for is that you don't drop your AC by too much by wild-shaping, as an attack that can turn you back will also do spillover damage (excess damage to the wild-shape applies to the druid itself) so you don't want to make yourself easier to hit by wild-shaping as it could mean allowing an enemy to bypass your normal AC.
Dragons aren't an option for wild-shaping (don't fit the CR anyway even if they were); to become a dragon you'd need to reach 17th level in Druid so you can cast Shapechange.
You don't necessarily need to be wild-shaped the whole time to make it viable; wild-shape is as good for out of combat utility as it is for combat. Plus a Druid isn't helpless when they're not transformed, they're powerful elemental casters and have access some decent melee damage of their own if you prefer (via Shillelagh or Primal Savagery). You could just wild shape near the start of a fight to effectively gain hitpoints, then when you drop out fall back on your own attacks and spellcasting. You don't need to be wild-shaped as much as possible to make the most of being a druid, it's just an option you've got and as Circle of the Moon your wild-shapes are stronger.
If you haven't actually created your character yet you do have a few other options for a shape-changer; first is the Shifter race from Eberron (would need to ask your DM if they'd allow this) but it can shapeshift once per short rest to gain bonuses. You've also got the Path of the Beast (Tasha's Cauldron of Everything) sub-class for a Barbarian which shapeshifts while Raging. There are also "beast" races such as Dragonorn or Tabaxi that you could play as more primal, feral or tribal. It depends what you actually want to get out of shape-shifting really.
A lot of beasts are found in the basic rules. You can view all beasts up to CR 1 here, and you can adjust the CR fields to look at higher ones.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
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