Looking for some guidance on certain scenarios that come up with the 9th level spell shapechange for my druid.
1.My character uses shapechange spell to turn into a githyanki gish (the updated version). The telekinetic bolt for the gish is +7 "to hit". (+4 from proficiency bonus and +3 from intelligence i think, but am not sure.) Since my character keeps his own intelligence, which is 10, does that now reduce the "to hit" bonus to +4 only? Or does it stay at +7 since that is what is listed in the stat block and my character takes on the stats that are listed for the new form?
2.Do always use the new forms proficiency bonus? For example if your new form is capable of casting spells, you can cast your own druid spells in the new form. Would you use your own proficiency bonus to determine your spell save dc in that scenario since your spells are a class feature that you retain? or would you use the new forms proficiency bonus to determine your spell save dc since the new forms statistics replace yours? You spell save dc for your own spells could potentially change based on what creature you become.
3.Death slaad can fireball twice per day. Githyanki gish can fireball 3x per day. If i use both fireballs from the slaad, then change into a gish and use all three fireballs, what happens if i change back to a death slaad again. Do i get two more fireballs per day again or would you consider those to be used up? If so, you could hypothetically keep turning back into each form to replenish your fireballs for the entire duration.
4.If you turn into an adult red dragon and burn through all legendary resistances, then turn into something else, and then turn back into another adult red dragon would you get three more legendary resistances to use? Basically its the same as question 3 but applies to legendary resistances instead of spells.
1. Telekinetic bolt is described as "Ranged spell attack." I could see arguing that you use your ranged spell attack, which would be wisdom based. But I could also see it the other way.
3. "You transform into an average example of that creature, one without any class levels or the Spellcasting trait.", so those fireballs don't enter into it.
4. The spell specifically says you don't gain the Legendary Actions, and then doesn't say a thing about Legendary Resistance. I wouldn't say you get 3 "more", as in you couldn't go up to having 6 of them, but if you had used some up, I would say you'd go back up to 3.
You do recalculate the to hit and damage bonuses based on your actual scores. Because the Githyanki Gish is an intelligence caster for it's spells and telekinetic blast (as can be confirmed by calculating the to hit bonus as being their proficiency bonus + their intelligence score) then you would use whatever your intelligence score is at that point in time.
This is one that I am constantly confused on, reinforced by this sage advice. I think that RAI, if you have two sources of 'spellcasting', your own and anything innate from the Shapechange form, then you calculate separately. So your own spellcasting would be as expected, but you would have to use the proficiency of the Shapechange form + relevant ability scores to calculate your innate spellcasting in that form. This will have to be a conversation at your table to come up with the best conclusion though.
For my own two cents, I would just simplify it by saying 'if your new form would be proficient, just act as if you have proficiency and then calculate with your own prof. bonus'. It keeps your Shapechange forms relevant even if you aren't choosing a dragon or something.
brectangle is partly correct, if you turned into a creature with the Spellcasting trait such as an Archmage, then you wouldn't gain it. However, the Innate spellcasting trait of many monsters, as well as the Spellcasting action of the newer versions, are not included RAW, so you would gain any of the innate, psionic, or action-based spells of your chosen form. Again this gets into weird territory, are you turning into the same average version of a creature each time you change form? For balance sake I'd say yes - you are already gaining a plethora of magical resources by having so many different options to choose from, don't make the table hate you even more by spamming the same form again and again.
Same result as 3, I think once you use up a chosen form's resources then they stay gone until you fully cast the spell again. You might also expect a dm to flat out tell you 'if you choose a form with legendary saves, you only have that many across all your forms for this casting'. A bit harsh, but again it might be fair based on what you are getting.
If you are a Druid, it's because Druids don't get True Polymorph. If you are a Wizard who gets the choice between the two, a big reason to Shapechange rather than True Polymorph is so you can retain all your existing class and race features while in the new form. You basically get the best of both forms.
You do recalculate the to hit and damage bonuses based on your actual scores. Because the Githyanki Gish is an intelligence caster for it's spells and telekinetic blast (as can be confirmed by calculating the to hit bonus as being their proficiency bonus + their intelligence score) then you would use whatever your intelligence score is at that point in time.
This is one that I am constantly confused on, reinforced by this sage advice. I think that RAI, if you have two sources of 'spellcasting', your own and anything innate from the Shapechange form, then you calculate separately. So your own spellcasting would be as expected, but you would have to use the proficiency of the Shapechange form + relevant ability scores to calculate your innate spellcasting in that form. This will have to be a conversation at your table to come up with the best conclusion though.
For my own two cents, I would just simplify it by saying 'if your new form would be proficient, just act as if you have proficiency and then calculate with your own prof. bonus'. It keeps your Shapechange forms relevant even if you aren't choosing a dragon or something.
brectangle is partly correct, if you turned into a creature with the Spellcasting trait such as an Archmage, then you wouldn't gain it. However, the Innate spellcasting trait of many monsters, as well as the Spellcasting action of the newer versions, are not included RAW, so you would gain any of the innate, psionic, or action-based spells of your chosen form. Again this gets into weird territory, are you turning into the same average version of a creature each time you change form? For balance sake I'd say yes - you are already gaining a plethora of magical resources by having so many different options to choose from, don't make the table hate you even more by spamming the same form again and again.
Same result as 3, I think once you use up a chosen form's resources then they stay gone until you fully cast the spell again. You might also expect a dm to flat out tell you 'if you choose a form with legendary saves, you only have that many across all your forms for this casting'. A bit harsh, but again it might be fair based on what you are getting.
This is great. Just what i was looking for. Recalculating attack roll bonuses and spell save dc's for intelligence based creatures is a bit of a pain since druid is wisdom based, but i would prefer to do it the correct way even if its more work. Thank you.
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Looking for some guidance on certain scenarios that come up with the 9th level spell shapechange for my druid.
1.My character uses shapechange spell to turn into a githyanki gish (the updated version). The telekinetic bolt for the gish is +7 "to hit". (+4 from proficiency bonus and +3 from intelligence i think, but am not sure.) Since my character keeps his own intelligence, which is 10, does that now reduce the "to hit" bonus to +4 only? Or does it stay at +7 since that is what is listed in the stat block and my character takes on the stats that are listed for the new form?
2.Do always use the new forms proficiency bonus? For example if your new form is capable of casting spells, you can cast your own druid spells in the new form. Would you use your own proficiency bonus to determine your spell save dc in that scenario since your spells are a class feature that you retain? or would you use the new forms proficiency bonus to determine your spell save dc since the new forms statistics replace yours? You spell save dc for your own spells could potentially change based on what creature you become.
3.Death slaad can fireball twice per day. Githyanki gish can fireball 3x per day. If i use both fireballs from the slaad, then change into a gish and use all three fireballs, what happens if i change back to a death slaad again. Do i get two more fireballs per day again or would you consider those to be used up? If so, you could hypothetically keep turning back into each form to replenish your fireballs for the entire duration.
4.If you turn into an adult red dragon and burn through all legendary resistances, then turn into something else, and then turn back into another adult red dragon would you get three more legendary resistances to use? Basically its the same as question 3 but applies to legendary resistances instead of spells.
Thanks.
1. Telekinetic bolt is described as "Ranged spell attack." I could see arguing that you use your ranged spell attack, which would be wisdom based. But I could also see it the other way.
3. "You transform into an average example of that creature, one without any class levels or the Spellcasting trait.", so those fireballs don't enter into it.
4. The spell specifically says you don't gain the Legendary Actions, and then doesn't say a thing about Legendary Resistance. I wouldn't say you get 3 "more", as in you couldn't go up to having 6 of them, but if you had used some up, I would say you'd go back up to 3.
Wait, this brings up another question of mine...
Why shapechange when you can true polymorph?
DMing:
The Cataclysm Stadium
Rise of the White Mask
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian.
If you are a Druid, it's because Druids don't get True Polymorph. If you are a Wizard who gets the choice between the two, a big reason to Shapechange rather than True Polymorph is so you can retain all your existing class and race features while in the new form. You basically get the best of both forms.
Oh...
so, it's basically moon wild shape but you can be CR 20 and not just a beast.
Cool, got it.
DMing:
The Cataclysm Stadium
Rise of the White Mask
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian.
This is great. Just what i was looking for. Recalculating attack roll bonuses and spell save dc's for intelligence based creatures is a bit of a pain since druid is wisdom based, but i would prefer to do it the correct way even if its more work. Thank you.