Guiding Bolt only has a Verbal and Somatic component, which means that a free hand is required to cast it. But you need to be "holding" the Star Map in order to have this spell prepared. The same is true for the Guidance cantrip, which the Star Map also provides tho the Druid.
Does this effectively mean that Stars Druids cannot wear shields if they want to actually use their Star Map?
Since the map can serve as a spellcasting focus and you can use the hand holding the spellcasting focus to perform the somatic component I'd rule that you can use both the map and the shield at the same time.
I thought that only applied to spells which also have a Material component, and that if no Material component is required then a free hand is needed for the Somatic component.
Much like with artificer and spirits bard I believe that the designers forgot how or are purposefully ignoring the rules on spell components because they are soon to be removed/altered and this level of keeping track of hands is disruptive to play and overly pedantic. I recommend letting them cast things just fine as long as they have one hand to hold the map.
If you want a rules based interpretation: The spirits bard/stars druid requirement to cast while holding something (map/spirit focus) creates a material requirement to spells that would otherwise not have them. As such the VSM rules now apply instead of the VS rules. This means they can use a shield in one hand and cast while holding the map in the other.
I thought that only applied to spells which also have a Material component, and that if no Material component is required then a free hand is needed for the Somatic component.
I would love to be wrong about that, though.
That would pretty much invalidate shields for clerics as well, which isn't the case. What the rules says is that arcane foci (like a holy symbol or a stars druid's map) can be held by the same hand performing the somatic component of the spell. It doesn't change just because some spells doesn't require material components.
I thought that only applied to spells which also have a Material component, and that if no Material component is required then a free hand is needed for the Somatic component.
I would love to be wrong about that, though.
That would pretty much invalidate shields for clerics as well, which isn't the case. What the rules says is that arcane foci (like a holy symbol or a stars druid's map) can be held by the same hand performing the somatic component of the spell. It doesn't change just because some spells doesn't require material components.
Well, the main difference there is that Clerics can explicitly have their Holy Symbol on their shield, whereas Druids cannot (PHB page. 151: "To use the symbol in this way, the caster must hold it in hand, wear it visibly, or bear it on a shield." ).
Your interpretation is probably correct, though I think, because the "spell focus can be held by the same hand performing the somatic component of the spell" is listed specifically under the Material Component entry in the PHB, that people assume it only applies to Material component spells. Wizards has been pretty unclear surrounding this whole thing, and like the other user said it's pretty pedantic / unfun to police this. I've never seen a table enforce these rules.
Well, the main difference there is that Clerics can explicitly have their Holy Symbol on their shield, whereas Druids cannot (PHB page. 151: "To use the symbol in this way, the caster must hold it in hand, wear it visibly, or bear it on a shield." ).
Your interpretation is probably correct, though I think, because the "spell focus can be held by the same hand performing the somatic component of the spell" is listed specifically under the Material Component entry in the PHB, that people assume it only applies to Material component spells. Wizards has been pretty unclear surrounding this whole thing, and like the other user said it's pretty pedantic / unfun to police this. I've never seen a table enforce these rules.
A stars druid can use their star map as a spellcasting focus so a cleric holding a shield and (say) a maceis in the same situation as a druid holding a start map and a shield in that they are holding a spell focus in one hand and something else in the other. RAW they can use the hand using their focus to cast VSM and SM spells but not for VM spells.
The difference however is while a cleric can use their object interaction to sheath ther weapon and then cast a spell the druid needs an action to take off their shield.
I would interpret the rules to mean if you require a star map to cast a guiding bolt then the start map is a material componenI turning the spell into a VSM which can be cast. If you are casting guiding bolt using a spell slot you then need to drop or pocket you star map to do so. However like clerics with their weapon It is usually regarded as legal to tie your star map to your body then you can drop it (free action) cast the spell then pick it up again (object interaction).
A stars druid can use their star map as a spellcasting focus so a cleric holding a shield and (say) a maceis in the same situation as a druid holding a start map and a shield in that they are holding a spell focus in one hand and something else in the other. RAW they can use the hand using their focus to cast VSM and SM spells but not for VM spells.
Well, it's not really the same, because a Cleric holding a mace isn't necessary for spell casting. Frankly, I'm not sure why you're mentioning a mace in the first place.
A Cleric who wants to use a shield can have it act as a spell focus (holy symbol) and they also have a free hand, whereas a Stars Druid who wants to use a shield doesn't get any free hands because they need to hold their Star Map as well.
I would interpret the rules to mean if you require a star map to cast a guiding bolt then the start map is a material componenI turning the spell into a VSM which can be cast. If you are casting guiding bolt using a spell slot you then need to drop or pocket you star map to do so. However like clerics with their weapon It is usually regarded as legal to tie your star map to your body then you can drop it (free action) cast the spell then pick it up again (object interaction).
That's a bit of a stretch, honestly. The Star Map is not listed anywhere as a material component. All it says is:
"While holding this map, you have these benefits:
You know the Guidance cantrip.
You have the Guiding Bolt spell prepared. It counts as a druid spell for you, and it doesn't count against the number of spells you can have prepared. [...]"
This implies that while you are not holding the Star Map, you do not "know" the Guidance cantrip, nor do you have the Guiding Bolt spell "prepared". As soon as you "drop" your Star Map, you are no longer holding it, and therefore you lose Guidance and Guiding Bolt.
Therein lies my concerns with the way the Stars Druid features are worded.
A stars druid can use their star map as a spellcasting focus so a cleric holding a shield and (say) a maceis in the same situation as a druid holding a start map and a shield in that they are holding a spell focus in one hand and something else in the other. RAW they can use the hand using their focus to cast VSM and SM spells but not for VM spells.
Well, it's not really the same, because a Cleric holding a mace isn't necessary for spell casting. Frankly, I'm not sure why you're mentioning a mace in the first place.
A Cleric who wants to use a shield can have it act as a spell focus (holy symbol) and they also have a free hand, whereas a Stars Druid who wants to use a shield doesn't get any free hands because they need to hold their Star Map as well.
Someone else had mentioned clerics and while clerics can operate with a shield in one hand and the other hand free it ia VERY common for clerics to make weapon attacks in fact many domains, get divine strike which assumes they will be making weapon attacks (only since tash'a has their been an alternative to that). I cleric that wants to be hold a weapon is in the same situation as a stars duid wanting to wear a shield.
That's a bit of a stretch, honestly. The Star Map is not listed anywhere as a material component. All it says is:
"While holding this map, you have these benefits:
You know the Guidance cantrip.
You have the Guiding Bolt spell prepared. It counts as a druid spell for you, and it doesn't count against the number of spells you can have prepared. [...]"
Under material components the rules say "Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5, “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell." while open for interpretation I do not think it is a stretch to say that if a spell that requires a "particular object" or a spell focus then it is classed as having a material component then if a spell requires a particular object that happens to be a spell focus [the star map] then that classes as a material component as well.
You are right however I hadn't picked up that you only have guidance and guiding bolt prepared while holding the star map however that means (using the logic above) that the star map is a material component even if guiding bold it being cast using a spell slot.
A lot of the rules concerning spell components and free hands are confusing an open to interpretation and there are ways of getting round many of them. While the above is my understanding of RAW in session 0 I always suggest we houserule that a to cast a spell with a somantic component you must have a free hand or one holding a component pounch or spell focus. That makes things so much simpler, thugh I accept that is a house rule so is not what we are discussing here.
Someone else had mentioned clerics and while clerics can operate with a shield in one hand and the other hand free it ia VERY common for clerics to make weapon attacks in fact many domains, get divine strike which assumes they will be making weapon attacks (only since tash'a has their been an alternative to that). I cleric that wants to be hold a weapon is in the same situation as a stars duid wanting to wear a shield.
I understand what you're saying, though a Cleric doesn't need both hands occupied to cast spells, whereas a Druid does (if they each want to use a shield). I'm just making sure that distinction is clear, as the weapon attacks aren't really relevant to this discussion.
Under material components the rules say "Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5, “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell." while open for interpretation I do not think it is a stretch to say that if a spell that requires a "particular object" or a spell focus then it is classed as having a material component then if a spell requires a particular object that happens to be a spell focus [the star map] then that classes as a material component as well.
You are right however I hadn't picked up that you only have guidance and guiding bolt prepared while holding the star map however that means (using the logic above) that the star map is a material component even if guiding bold it being cast using a spell slot.
A lot of the rules concerning spell components and free hands are confusing an open to interpretation and there are ways of getting round many of them. While the above is my understanding of RAW in session 0 I always suggest we houserule that a to cast a spell with a somantic component you must have a free hand or one holding a component pounch or spell focus. That makes things so much simpler, thugh I accept that is a house rule so is not what we are discussing here.
The problem with this is that, in the spell description it would say what the material component is. As you quoted, "specified in parentheses in the component entry". Nowhere does the Star Map feature explicitly state that Guidance cantrip and Guiding Bolt spell have a material cost, or that the Star Map is the material for said cost. It specifically says that the spells are "learned" and "prepared" when you are holding the focus, nothing else. These spells both remain as having only a Verbal and Somatic component.
I agree in practice DMs are better off not policing this, and my DM certainly doesn't. The wording of this subclass' features is still something I find troubling, though.
The problem with this is that, in the spell description it would say what the material component is. As you quoted, "specified in parentheses in the component entry". Nowhere does the Star Map feature explicitly state that Guidance cantrip and Guiding Bolt spell have a material cost, or that the Star Map is the material for said cost. It specifically says that the spells are "learned" and "prepared" when you are holding the focus, nothing else. These spells both remain as having only a Verbal and Somatic component.
I agree in practice DMs are better off not policing this, and my DM certainly doesn't. The wording of this subclass' features is still something I find troubling, though.
The spell description doesn't say what the material component is because for the vast majority of characters with access to guiding bolt there is no component. When the spell was published no characters needed to be holding a particulr object to cast the spell.
The wild companion feature allows druids to cast find familair "without material components" so you do not need the actual components (find familar componants have a gold cost so you can not use a focus). Does this mean that the spell is now a VS spell or is it still a VSM spell you just don't need the components? I would regard this as meaning it becomes a VS spell for the stars druid. If you agree with that then a (sub) class feature can change what components a spell needs. Then you have to decide whether the Star map description changes the componants for guidance and guiding bolt when you are using that feature. For me the fact that it says you must be holding the star map means the stat map is a material component but I agree it is somewhat unclear.
Again, the difference between the Star Map and the Find Familiar is that the latter explicitly specifies the removal of the Material component requirement. The Star Map does not include any such language for an addition of a Material component.
Again, the difference between the Star Map and the Find Familiar is that the latter explicitly specifies the removal of the Material component requirement. The Star Map does not include any such language for an addition of a Material component.
It specifies that you need a particular object which happens to be a star map. Although it does not say "this counts as a material component" but is does meet the definition of a material component. I can see how you interpret that as meaning it sn't a material component but I interpret is a different way.
After doing some more research, I found that your interpretation is most likely wrong.
The reason I say this is because of the Artificer "Tools Required" feature:
"You produce your artificer spell effects through your tools. You must have a spellcasting focus - specifically thieves' tools or some kind of artisan's tool - in hand when you cast any spell with this Spellcasting feature (meaning the spell has an "M" component when you cast it). You must be proficient with the tool to use it in this way. See the equipment chapter in the Player's Handbook for descriptions of these tools."
Specific trumps general, and Artificer has this specifically applying to them while the Stars Druid doesn't.
After doing some more research, I found that your interpretation is most likely wrong.
The reason I say this is because of the Artificer "Tools Required" feature:
"You produce your artificer spell effects through your tools. You must have a spellcasting focus - specifically thieves' tools or some kind of artisan's tool - in hand when you cast any spell with this Spellcasting feature (meaning the spell has an "M" component when you cast it). You must be proficient with the tool to use it in this way. See the equipment chapter in the Player's Handbook for descriptions of these tools."
Specific trumps general, and Artificer has this specifically applying to them while the Stars Druid doesn't.
I thought we had agreed to disagree on this.
An equaly valid interpretation is that the "meaning the spell has an "M" component when you cast it" is a clarification not an exception and therefore it applies to a stars druid as well.
Material component rules are a mess, if you try to play RAW there are several areas such as this one that are unclear and others where players have to describe in detail to get round some of the restrictions (e.g. "I drop my spell focus as a free action as I move towards my injured friend but as it is tied to my armor it does nt fall to the ground I then cast cure wounds and use my object interaction to pick up my spell focus again"). I just hope it is clearer and simpler in one D&D
After doing some more research, I found that your interpretation is most likely wrong.
The reason I say this is because of the Artificer "Tools Required" feature:
"You produce your artificer spell effects through your tools. You must have a spellcasting focus - specifically thieves' tools or some kind of artisan's tool - in hand when you cast any spell with this Spellcasting feature (meaning the spell has an "M" component when you cast it). You must be proficient with the tool to use it in this way. See the equipment chapter in the Player's Handbook for descriptions of these tools."
Specific trumps general, and Artificer has this specifically applying to them while the Stars Druid doesn't.
I thought we had agreed to disagree on this.
An equaly valid interpretation is that the "meaning the spell has an "M" component when you cast it" is a clarification not an exception and therefore it applies to a stars druid as well.
Hence why I disclaim that I had been looking into it more.
The problem is that this isn't really an equally valid interpretation. It isn't a clarification, it's a feature, and this feature applies to Artificers alone.
Of course, as a DM you can rule whatever you want. According to RAW / RAI, however, this feature does not apply to Druids.
Meaning: "the thing one intends to convey especially by language"
So the way I would read the the test you highlighted as: If you must have a spell focus to use a spell casting feature the spell has an "M" component when you cast it.
Circle of Stars Druid 'Star Map' feature states:
"While holding this map, you have these benefits:
[...] You have the guiding bolt spell prepared"
Guiding Bolt only has a Verbal and Somatic component, which means that a free hand is required to cast it. But you need to be "holding" the Star Map in order to have this spell prepared. The same is true for the Guidance cantrip, which the Star Map also provides tho the Druid.
Does this effectively mean that Stars Druids cannot wear shields if they want to actually use their Star Map?
Since the map can serve as a spellcasting focus and you can use the hand holding the spellcasting focus to perform the somatic component I'd rule that you can use both the map and the shield at the same time.
I thought that only applied to spells which also have a Material component, and that if no Material component is required then a free hand is needed for the Somatic component.
I would love to be wrong about that, though.
Much like with artificer and spirits bard I believe that the designers forgot how or are purposefully ignoring the rules on spell components because they are soon to be removed/altered and this level of keeping track of hands is disruptive to play and overly pedantic. I recommend letting them cast things just fine as long as they have one hand to hold the map.
If you want a rules based interpretation: The spirits bard/stars druid requirement to cast while holding something (map/spirit focus) creates a material requirement to spells that would otherwise not have them. As such the VSM rules now apply instead of the VS rules. This means they can use a shield in one hand and cast while holding the map in the other.
That would pretty much invalidate shields for clerics as well, which isn't the case. What the rules says is that arcane foci (like a holy symbol or a stars druid's map) can be held by the same hand performing the somatic component of the spell. It doesn't change just because some spells doesn't require material components.
Well, the main difference there is that Clerics can explicitly have their Holy Symbol on their shield, whereas Druids cannot (PHB page. 151: "To use the symbol in this way, the caster must hold it in hand, wear it visibly, or bear it on a shield." ).
Your interpretation is probably correct, though I think, because the "spell focus can be held by the same hand performing the somatic component of the spell" is listed specifically under the Material Component entry in the PHB, that people assume it only applies to Material component spells. Wizards has been pretty unclear surrounding this whole thing, and like the other user said it's pretty pedantic / unfun to police this. I've never seen a table enforce these rules.
A stars druid can use their star map as a spellcasting focus so a cleric holding a shield and (say) a maceis in the same situation as a druid holding a start map and a shield in that they are holding a spell focus in one hand and something else in the other. RAW they can use the hand using their focus to cast VSM and SM spells but not for VM spells.
The difference however is while a cleric can use their object interaction to sheath ther weapon and then cast a spell the druid needs an action to take off their shield.
I would interpret the rules to mean if you require a star map to cast a guiding bolt then the start map is a material componenI turning the spell into a VSM which can be cast. If you are casting guiding bolt using a spell slot you then need to drop or pocket you star map to do so. However like clerics with their weapon It is usually regarded as legal to tie your star map to your body then you can drop it (free action) cast the spell then pick it up again (object interaction).
Well, it's not really the same, because a Cleric holding a mace isn't necessary for spell casting. Frankly, I'm not sure why you're mentioning a mace in the first place.
A Cleric who wants to use a shield can have it act as a spell focus (holy symbol) and they also have a free hand, whereas a Stars Druid who wants to use a shield doesn't get any free hands because they need to hold their Star Map as well.
That's a bit of a stretch, honestly. The Star Map is not listed anywhere as a material component. All it says is:
"While holding this map, you have these benefits:
This implies that while you are not holding the Star Map, you do not "know" the Guidance cantrip, nor do you have the Guiding Bolt spell "prepared". As soon as you "drop" your Star Map, you are no longer holding it, and therefore you lose Guidance and Guiding Bolt.
Therein lies my concerns with the way the Stars Druid features are worded.
Someone else had mentioned clerics and while clerics can operate with a shield in one hand and the other hand free it ia VERY common for clerics to make weapon attacks in fact many domains, get divine strike which assumes they will be making weapon attacks (only since tash'a has their been an alternative to that). I cleric that wants to be hold a weapon is in the same situation as a stars duid wanting to wear a shield.
Under material components the rules say "Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5, “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell." while open for interpretation I do not think it is a stretch to say that if a spell that requires a "particular object" or a spell focus then it is classed as having a material component then if a spell requires a particular object that happens to be a spell focus [the star map] then that classes as a material component as well.
You are right however I hadn't picked up that you only have guidance and guiding bolt prepared while holding the star map however that means (using the logic above) that the star map is a material component even if guiding bold it being cast using a spell slot.
A lot of the rules concerning spell components and free hands are confusing an open to interpretation and there are ways of getting round many of them. While the above is my understanding of RAW in session 0 I always suggest we houserule that a to cast a spell with a somantic component you must have a free hand or one holding a component pounch or spell focus. That makes things so much simpler, thugh I accept that is a house rule so is not what we are discussing here.
I understand what you're saying, though a Cleric doesn't need both hands occupied to cast spells, whereas a Druid does (if they each want to use a shield). I'm just making sure that distinction is clear, as the weapon attacks aren't really relevant to this discussion.
The problem with this is that, in the spell description it would say what the material component is. As you quoted, "specified in parentheses in the component entry". Nowhere does the Star Map feature explicitly state that Guidance cantrip and Guiding Bolt spell have a material cost, or that the Star Map is the material for said cost. It specifically says that the spells are "learned" and "prepared" when you are holding the focus, nothing else. These spells both remain as having only a Verbal and Somatic component.
I agree in practice DMs are better off not policing this, and my DM certainly doesn't. The wording of this subclass' features is still something I find troubling, though.
The spell description doesn't say what the material component is because for the vast majority of characters with access to guiding bolt there is no component. When the spell was published no characters needed to be holding a particulr object to cast the spell.
The wild companion feature allows druids to cast find familair "without material components" so you do not need the actual components (find familar componants have a gold cost so you can not use a focus). Does this mean that the spell is now a VS spell or is it still a VSM spell you just don't need the components? I would regard this as meaning it becomes a VS spell for the stars druid. If you agree with that then a (sub) class feature can change what components a spell needs. Then you have to decide whether the Star map description changes the componants for guidance and guiding bolt when you are using that feature. For me the fact that it says you must be holding the star map means the stat map is a material component but I agree it is somewhat unclear.
Again, the difference between the Star Map and the Find Familiar is that the latter explicitly specifies the removal of the Material component requirement. The Star Map does not include any such language for an addition of a Material component.
It specifies that you need a particular object which happens to be a star map. Although it does not say "this counts as a material component" but is does meet the definition of a material component. I can see how you interpret that as meaning it sn't a material component but I interpret is a different way.
After doing some more research, I found that your interpretation is most likely wrong.
The reason I say this is because of the Artificer "Tools Required" feature:
"You produce your artificer spell effects through your tools. You must have a spellcasting focus - specifically thieves' tools or some kind of artisan's tool - in hand when you cast any spell with this Spellcasting feature (meaning the spell has an "M" component when you cast it). You must be proficient with the tool to use it in this way. See the equipment chapter in the Player's Handbook for descriptions of these tools."
Specific trumps general, and Artificer has this specifically applying to them while the Stars Druid doesn't.
I thought we had agreed to disagree on this.
An equaly valid interpretation is that the "meaning the spell has an "M" component when you cast it" is a clarification not an exception and therefore it applies to a stars druid as well.
Material component rules are a mess, if you try to play RAW there are several areas such as this one that are unclear and others where players have to describe in detail to get round some of the restrictions (e.g. "I drop my spell focus as a free action as I move towards my injured friend but as it is tied to my armor it does nt fall to the ground I then cast cure wounds and use my object interaction to pick up my spell focus again"). I just hope it is clearer and simpler in one D&D
Hence why I disclaim that I had been looking into it more.
The problem is that this isn't really an equally valid interpretation. It isn't a clarification, it's a feature, and this feature applies to Artificers alone.
Of course, as a DM you can rule whatever you want. According to RAW / RAI, however, this feature does not apply to Druids.
Again, specific trumps general.
According to Websters
Meaning: "the thing one intends to convey especially by language"
So the way I would read the the test you highlighted as: If you must have a spell focus to use a spell casting feature the spell has an "M" component when you cast it.
I would read it that way as well, because that's pretty much what it explicitly says.
But it only applies to Artificers, not Stars Druids.