Is it just me or is the 2024 grasping vine low key one of the best soft lock spells in the game. Because the vine is grappling the target it's basically a debuff giving disadvantage on all attacks, 30ft forced movement, and sets the target's speed to 0. All of that on an attack roll so it ignores legendary resistance and magic resistance. High CR enemies can't even use those when they try to break free using their action. Higher CR enemies are incredibly difficult to hit with status and control spells because of those resistances and this just bypasses that feature meant to help with difficulty scaling. When you include the damage that's pretty powerful for a bonus action concentration spell. Even with the size restriction it can seriously hinder adult dragons, hydras, and a lot of other high CR monsters that rely on attacks, especially melee attacks. I don't see many people talking about it, but I feel like this spell is better than most realize. Am I too high on this spell?
... All of that on an attack roll so it ignores legendary resistance and magic resistance. High CR enemies can't even use those when they try to break free using their action. Higher CR enemies are incredibly difficult to hit with status and control spells because of those resistances and this just bypasses that feature ...
Not knowing much about legendary resistance (that's a DM tool and my character certainly doesn't have any :) ) I don't understand why a high CR can't simply dismiss the spell. Could you help with my enlightenment please, MeatLuggin?
Legendary Resistance is a common trait for high-CR monsters that gives them the ability to, some number of times per day, change a failure on any saving throw into a success. Magic Resistance is another common high-CR monster feature that provides advantage on saving throws against spells. Neither of these is of any help against something that's using an attack roll rather than forcing a saving throw.
Some high-CR monsters might have an ability allowing them to effectively "dismiss" a spell but that's not very common compared to these others.
Exactly what wagnarokkr said. If the spell isn't forcing a save then the target has no way to avoid it's effects. Plus since it takes a successful athletics check to break free of the grapple many high CR monsters will struggle to break free. A couple of Druid spells that are also good at bypassing legendary resistances are Giant Insect and Conjure Fey. Giant Insect has an option for an on hit speed reduction to 0. Giant Insect also has an option that can draw out legendary resistances in the centipede. Conjure Fey gives the target hit by it's attack the frightened condition until the start of your next turn also with no save. The big downside of Conjure Fey is that many high CR monsters are immune to the frightened condition.
In high level play many control spell just don't work for the first 2-3 rounds because of legendary resistances and when they can work they usually don't because the monster makes it's save either because of magic resistance or good saves. Grasping Vine and Conjure Fey can do great soft control without a save and high level Druids should definitely consider using them or the wall spells in boss fights for control.
Is it just me or is the 2024 grasping vine low key one of the best soft lock spells in the game. Because the vine is grappling the target it's basically a debuff giving disadvantage on all attacks, 30ft forced movement, and sets the target's speed to 0. All of that on an attack roll so it ignores legendary resistance and magic resistance. High CR enemies can't even use those when they try to break free using their action. Higher CR enemies are incredibly difficult to hit with status and control spells because of those resistances and this just bypasses that feature meant to help with difficulty scaling. When you include the damage that's pretty powerful for a bonus action concentration spell. Even with the size restriction it can seriously hinder adult dragons, hydras, and a lot of other high CR monsters that rely on attacks, especially melee attacks. I don't see many people talking about it, but I feel like this spell is better than most realize. Am I too high on this spell?
Gonna agree with you, it sure has uses.
Life's hard - get a helmet!
Not knowing much about legendary resistance (that's a DM tool and my character certainly doesn't have any :) ) I don't understand why a high CR can't simply dismiss the spell. Could you help with my enlightenment please, MeatLuggin?
Legendary Resistance is a common trait for high-CR monsters that gives them the ability to, some number of times per day, change a failure on any saving throw into a success. Magic Resistance is another common high-CR monster feature that provides advantage on saving throws against spells. Neither of these is of any help against something that's using an attack roll rather than forcing a saving throw.
Some high-CR monsters might have an ability allowing them to effectively "dismiss" a spell but that's not very common compared to these others.
pronouns: he/she/they
Exactly what wagnarokkr said. If the spell isn't forcing a save then the target has no way to avoid it's effects. Plus since it takes a successful athletics check to break free of the grapple many high CR monsters will struggle to break free. A couple of Druid spells that are also good at bypassing legendary resistances are Giant Insect and Conjure Fey. Giant Insect has an option for an on hit speed reduction to 0. Giant Insect also has an option that can draw out legendary resistances in the centipede. Conjure Fey gives the target hit by it's attack the frightened condition until the start of your next turn also with no save. The big downside of Conjure Fey is that many high CR monsters are immune to the frightened condition.
In high level play many control spell just don't work for the first 2-3 rounds because of legendary resistances and when they can work they usually don't because the monster makes it's save either because of magic resistance or good saves. Grasping Vine and Conjure Fey can do great soft control without a save and high level Druids should definitely consider using them or the wall spells in boss fights for control.
Thx for the info, people. It will, indeed, prove very useful.