First off, I apologize in advance if this really is me missing something, or if this has been answered already... I tried to search for threads talking about tomb of horrors, and I saw some about other rooms, but nothing about this issue...
So anyway: I have been running the tales from the yawning portal in an effort to get more ideas with how some of the "official" dungeons have been designed, how they work, how they don't work, all that... and with the party taking a bit of a break, I decided to run the tomb of horrors in the meantime for those interested. I've ran into some issues that were really annoying (like a secret path going under a room that it has nothing to do with, with a secret icon over the tunnel making it look like it's in a room it's not, and not in the tunnel itself, for one... ya, room 13 is not connected to room 7 whatsoever) but for the most part, I've been able to decipher what the design appears it's supposed to be...
Except for this one part. I'm not sure if I am missing something that is described in a different room, or overlooking something crucial, but I cannot figure it out... In room location 24, it says that the door can be opened by solving a puzzle, and then it slams shut 5 rounds after opening, and completely inaccessible from the west side. in room location 31, it says that the north-south doors are completely innaccessible from the east-west passage, and are one-way doors that can only be opened from the north.
So here is my problem: looking at the map, areas 25-30 and 32-33, look like they are only connected to the rest of the dungeon by areas 24 and 31... however both locations state clearly that entry is entirely impossible unless you are leaving this area... in other words, there is literally no entrance to this area, only 2 exits.
I want to run the dungeon RAW as much as I can, so I can see how it works as it was designed, but I have no idea here. yes, I can always change what I need to as the DM, but that doesn't help if I am trying to run it as written... so what am I missing? how is it even possible for a player to enter these areas when the area is not even able to be entered?
It's been a long time since I've looked over the Tomb, but I believe there's traps that teleport you into especially dangerous areas. Look over the rest of the dungeon: there might be some of those hidden around. If not I don't know.
"As written" doesn't account for the occasional typo. There is some unofficial errata floating about that does point to an error being made by the author.
Take a look at #24 and imagine that you can't operate it from the east (There is no way of opening it from the west east side.). This allows for the chance that the PCs travel in a huge loop if they survive the fun-time antics contained within.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I'm not sure I see the problem. (I don't think there is a typo).
24. "The tunnel from the south emerges into a corridor that then heads east." "There is no way of opening it from the west side."
The door can not be opened from the West side - from INSIDE room 25. So room 24 is the entrance to this area. The corridor leads east to a puzzle door that you can open and enter but which you can not open from the west side of the door once you have passed through.
The one way doors in area 31 can only be opened from the North side - which is inside the complex of rooms from 25-33.
So room 24 is the entrance to this area and the area 31 corridor is the exit unless I am missing something.
Maybe I flunked land nav... my map shows area 25 to the east(on the right) of area 24. The door between the two areas has a west side (area 24) and an east side (area 25). As written, you can't open from the west side (area 24), only the east side (area 25).
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Maybe I flunked land nav... my map shows area 25 to the east(on the right) of area 24. The door between the two areas has a west side (area 24) and an east side (area 25). As written, you can't open from the west side (area 24), only the east side (area 25).
If you are in room 25 then the door to room 24 is on the west side of room 25 isn't it? I think the text is referring to the "west" side in the context of the ROOM the door is in and not from the context of the door itself - at least that is how I read it since the text wouldn't make any sense otherwise.
However, reading your reply, if the directions are defined relative to the door (rather than the position of the character trying to open the door) then its west side faces the corridor that leads from the east and the east side of the door is on the west side of room 25.
Anyway, when I was reading the text, I interpreted the "west" reference to be the door in the west side of room 25 - as opposed to the west side of the specific door.
"The tunnel from the south emerges into a corridor that then heads east. The door at the end is a great block of adamantine. It has permanent antimagic effects on it, and there is no magical or physical way of forcing entry. There are three slots in the door at about waist height. If sword blades are shoved simultaneously into all the slots, the 1-foot-thick door will swing open. Five rounds later, the door slams shut. There is no way of opening it from the west side."
In addition, the text gives clear instructions for opening the door from the side that faces west at the end of the corridor leading east. It would make absolutely no sense if the text then was referring to it being impossible to then open this door from the same side for which they just gave instructions. So, it is pretty clear that the text is referring to the other side of the door which is on the west side of room 25 ... but is also the east side of the door itself.
I can see where the suggested unofficial errata comes from. :)
ya, it is talking about the door when it describes there being no way of opening it from the west side, which would imply the description of how to open it is technically on the side of the other room... and unfortunately would not be the first time it did something like this, even in the tomb of horrors module itself (the tunnel leading from room 7 back into room 3 is the same way... doesn't tell you it's one way in room 3 where it is described)
But thinking about it from the angle of "you just passed the door, so now the east side of the door is the west side that is unable to be opened" makes some sense... very badly worded, but makes some sense. The other reason why I thought this would not be the case though, is the solution to the door involves sticking swords in... swords being an enemy you find in the room (the north middle door of the pillared room) which makes more sense if that is the side it can be opened from...
After thinking on it, I think this is what I'm going to go with: that it meant the west side of room 25, not the west side of the door room 24 describes. it's a little confusing as to why the "key" to the door would be on the wrong side... but this is the tomb of horrors... making the party sacrifice their equipment to advance just to find more swords immediately after is 100% in line with how the dungeon is designed, even if puzzle wise it doesn't.
-edit: after reading the rest of the posts (it sent me to the bottom and didn't realize there was more... my bad!) ya, I 100% agree with the unofficial errata. There are traps that teleport you to other locations, however the only ones that teleport to this particular area take all non-living things into Acererak's vault, and dumps the players without their stuff back at the beginning. There is a teleport to the room above, but that is in room 25, so doesn't help at all.
- hallway east wes hallway 1 north south hallway ROOM 24
1---------East side Door west side
1
1
tunnel and partial hallway. +
So room 24 is the only Entrance to 25 (Minus any teleportation traps)
ROOM 31 If you look North There are No doors. The Doors are one way which open OUT to 31. But Magic prevents you from seeing the doors. the Doors on Room 31 are EXIT ONLY from room 25 complex.
Write up makes sense if your are reading the map at the same time of reading the rooms. I would mark up the map with notes.
- hallway east wes hallway 1 north south hallway ROOM 24
1---------East side Door west side
1
1
tunnel and partial hallway. +
So room 24 is the only Entrance to 25 (Minus any teleportation traps)
ROOM 31 If you look North There are No doors. The Doors are one way which open OUT to 31. But Magic prevents you from seeing the doors. the Doors on Room 31 are EXIT ONLY from room 25 complex.
Write up makes sense if your are reading the map at the same time of reading the rooms. I would mark up the map with notes.
... you realize that if north is up (which the compass on the map shows), east is right, and west is left, right? so in your description, it would be:
|west side| |door| |east side|
But it's ok, I got my answer already, they meant it was unopenable from the east side of the door... ie: once you go through the door, it is unopenable from the west side (of the room you just entered) .. just wanted to make sure you know east from west... I always have to remind myself which is which as well.
Which do you guys prefer, Tomb of Horrors from the Yawning Portal book or Tomb of Annihilation? I’ve only really read ToA. Is it true they’re the same lich?
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First off, I apologize in advance if this really is me missing something, or if this has been answered already... I tried to search for threads talking about tomb of horrors, and I saw some about other rooms, but nothing about this issue...
So anyway: I have been running the tales from the yawning portal in an effort to get more ideas with how some of the "official" dungeons have been designed, how they work, how they don't work, all that... and with the party taking a bit of a break, I decided to run the tomb of horrors in the meantime for those interested. I've ran into some issues that were really annoying (like a secret path going under a room that it has nothing to do with, with a secret icon over the tunnel making it look like it's in a room it's not, and not in the tunnel itself, for one... ya, room 13 is not connected to room 7 whatsoever) but for the most part, I've been able to decipher what the design appears it's supposed to be...
Except for this one part. I'm not sure if I am missing something that is described in a different room, or overlooking something crucial, but I cannot figure it out... In room location 24, it says that the door can be opened by solving a puzzle, and then it slams shut 5 rounds after opening, and completely inaccessible from the west side. in room location 31, it says that the north-south doors are completely innaccessible from the east-west passage, and are one-way doors that can only be opened from the north.
So here is my problem: looking at the map, areas 25-30 and 32-33, look like they are only connected to the rest of the dungeon by areas 24 and 31... however both locations state clearly that entry is entirely impossible unless you are leaving this area... in other words, there is literally no entrance to this area, only 2 exits.
I want to run the dungeon RAW as much as I can, so I can see how it works as it was designed, but I have no idea here. yes, I can always change what I need to as the DM, but that doesn't help if I am trying to run it as written... so what am I missing? how is it even possible for a player to enter these areas when the area is not even able to be entered?
It's been a long time since I've looked over the Tomb, but I believe there's traps that teleport you into especially dangerous areas. Look over the rest of the dungeon: there might be some of those hidden around. If not I don't know.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
"As written" doesn't account for the occasional typo. There is some unofficial errata floating about that does point to an error being made by the author.
Take a look at #24 and imagine that you can't operate it from the east (There is no way of opening it from the
westeast side.). This allows for the chance that the PCs travel in a huge loop if they survive the fun-time antics contained within.“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I'm not sure I see the problem. (I don't think there is a typo).
24. "The tunnel from the south emerges into a corridor that then heads east." "There is no way of opening it from the west side."
The door can not be opened from the West side - from INSIDE room 25. So room 24 is the entrance to this area. The corridor leads east to a puzzle door that you can open and enter but which you can not open from the west side of the door once you have passed through.
The one way doors in area 31 can only be opened from the North side - which is inside the complex of rooms from 25-33.
So room 24 is the entrance to this area and the area 31 corridor is the exit unless I am missing something.
Maybe I flunked land nav... my map shows area 25 to the east(on the right) of area 24. The door between the two areas has a west side (area 24) and an east side (area 25). As written, you can't open from the west side (area 24), only the east side (area 25).
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
If you are in room 25 then the door to room 24 is on the west side of room 25 isn't it? I think the text is referring to the "west" side in the context of the ROOM the door is in and not from the context of the door itself - at least that is how I read it since the text wouldn't make any sense otherwise.
However, reading your reply, if the directions are defined relative to the door (rather than the position of the character trying to open the door) then its west side faces the corridor that leads from the east and the east side of the door is on the west side of room 25.
Anyway, when I was reading the text, I interpreted the "west" reference to be the door in the west side of room 25 - as opposed to the west side of the specific door.
"The tunnel from the south emerges into a corridor that then heads east. The door at the end is a great block of adamantine. It has permanent antimagic effects on it, and there is no magical or physical way of forcing entry. There are three slots in the door at about waist height. If sword blades are shoved simultaneously into all the slots, the 1-foot-thick door will swing open. Five rounds later, the door slams shut. There is no way of opening it from the west side."
In addition, the text gives clear instructions for opening the door from the side that faces west at the end of the corridor leading east. It would make absolutely no sense if the text then was referring to it being impossible to then open this door from the same side for which they just gave instructions. So, it is pretty clear that the text is referring to the other side of the door which is on the west side of room 25 ... but is also the east side of the door itself.
I can see where the suggested unofficial errata comes from. :)
ya, it is talking about the door when it describes there being no way of opening it from the west side, which would imply the description of how to open it is technically on the side of the other room... and unfortunately would not be the first time it did something like this, even in the tomb of horrors module itself (the tunnel leading from room 7 back into room 3 is the same way... doesn't tell you it's one way in room 3 where it is described)
But thinking about it from the angle of "you just passed the door, so now the east side of the door is the west side that is unable to be opened" makes some sense... very badly worded, but makes some sense. The other reason why I thought this would not be the case though, is the solution to the door involves sticking swords in... swords being an enemy you find in the room (the north middle door of the pillared room) which makes more sense if that is the side it can be opened from...
After thinking on it, I think this is what I'm going to go with: that it meant the west side of room 25, not the west side of the door room 24 describes. it's a little confusing as to why the "key" to the door would be on the wrong side... but this is the tomb of horrors... making the party sacrifice their equipment to advance just to find more swords immediately after is 100% in line with how the dungeon is designed, even if puzzle wise it doesn't.
-edit: after reading the rest of the posts (it sent me to the bottom and didn't realize there was more... my bad!) ya, I 100% agree with the unofficial errata. There are traps that teleport you to other locations, however the only ones that teleport to this particular area take all non-living things into Acererak's vault, and dumps the players without their stuff back at the beginning. There is a teleport to the room above, but that is in room 25, so doesn't help at all.
- hallway east wes hallway 1 north south hallway ROOM 24
1---------East side Door west side
1
1
tunnel and partial hallway. +
So room 24 is the only Entrance to 25 (Minus any teleportation traps)
ROOM 31 If you look North There are No doors. The Doors are one way which open OUT to 31. But Magic prevents you from seeing the doors. the Doors on Room 31 are EXIT ONLY from room 25 complex.
Write up makes sense if your are reading the map at the same time of reading the rooms. I would mark up the map with notes.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
... you realize that if north is up (which the compass on the map shows), east is right, and west is left, right? so in your description, it would be:
|west side| |door| |east side|
But it's ok, I got my answer already, they meant it was unopenable from the east side of the door... ie: once you go through the door, it is unopenable from the west side (of the room you just entered) .. just wanted to make sure you know east from west... I always have to remind myself which is which as well.
On the plus or minus side, Tomb of Horrors is pretty easy to beat in 5e.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Which do you guys prefer, Tomb of Horrors from the Yawning Portal book or Tomb of Annihilation? I’ve only really read ToA. Is it true they’re the same lich?