Hey folks, I'm curious how you're handling group bastions.
I'm DMing a Phandalin campaign, and my party had been meaning to take over the Sleeping Giant after they REALLY wanted the Redbrands gone (had them kidnap Sister Garalea and kill her friend, the inn cook). I managed to push this off in Chapter 2 and 3 with the pretext of the Linene and Darren trying to establish a town's own law enforcement unit and burying the mayor in paperwork, but now that they are level 5 and have returned from the Wave Echo Cave, I'm granting them a renovated Sleeping Giant as thanks for their services (well under a different name, but they haven't figured that out yet)... also this lets me give them a home instead of constantly staying at the Stonehill Inn and dealing with them trying to justify free lodging.
In order to not grind the session to an early screeching halt, I told them to think about what they want their facilities to be so we can retroactively have it built after the holidays. Since it is a party building, I told them they will all get a bedroom, then each choose 1 from the remaining basic facilities and their 2 special ones. I'm also highly suggesting that they hire a building manager to direct operations when they're away on top of their own hirelings. Then I gave them a pair of small matched magic lockboxes that portal to each other for communication and small item sharing precisely so they can keep touch with their hired manager (think the magic Harry Potter cabinet, but much smaller).
The part that has me most curious for your takes however is if you are treating special facilities as "separate" bastions per the players who chose them, or since it's a joint building, does everyone share? Obviously, anything that involves crafting would still have to be done on a per case basis, and it's not like everything cares for the amount of members present. However, what do you do with facilities that grant Charms like the Arcane Study or Sanctuary?
If anything, the only almost confirmed decision for 1/6 Special Facilities comes from the Sorcerer wanting an Arcane Study (truth be told, he kind of feels like more a Wizard, but I'm winging it as a curious hermit Sorcerer). Here's where I need your opinion (which, like I said, will surely factor in other stuff).
I feel like granting the Charm to the player who requested the facility is fair, even if that spell isn't normally on their spell list (I'm actually surprised that Identify isn't available to Sorcerers). The Charm would retain it's week long / 1 use duration and it doesn't add the spell on the spell list officially. Same thing with a Sanctuary Healing Word.
Would you however grant said charm to the whole party or not? Since facilities are part of the same building, per se, would you grant the Charm to the other two players who have different picks? The wording implies as long as the player rests in their bastion, not the facility specifically, they do get the perk. Would this apply to their roommates?
Also, while this wouldn't matter for Identify, casting a spell charm not involving spell slots should mean it acts the same as a Fey Touched's free Misty Step right? I.e. not triggering the 1 leveled spell per turn rule as no spell slot gets used.
Stuff like the Storehouse or Gardens having limited space and access makes easy justifiable sense, but I wonder if I'm overthinking the Charm part. Thoughts?
I'm also highly suggesting that they hire a building manager to direct operations when they're away on top of their own hirelings. Then I gave them a pair of small matched magic lockboxes that portal to each other for communication and small item sharing precisely so they can keep touch with their hired manager
RAW: each player gets 2 special facilities at level 5. whether the bastion facilities are grouped together or in separate locations doesn't make much difference except in the situation where a bastion is attacked. (defenders can be shared during an attack). But an attack can only occur, RAW, when the players can't send orders to their bastions every week.
So, basically, as long as the players have sendingn stones, one with the party, one at the bastion, then they can send orders, and attacks can't happen. I suppose if you want to allow them to have a "manager" of some sort, that's another solution to avoid weeks with no orders and opening the bastion to an attack.
"a pair of small matched magic lockboxes that portal to each other for communication and small item sharing precisely so they can keep touch with their hired manager "
The spell equivalent would be "Sending" and "Galder's Speedy Courier". Sending can transmit orders back and forth. Galders Speedy Courier can send objects back and forth.
RAW: charms go to the player who selected the special facility as part of their bastion, not the entire party. I think most charms require the player to spend a week or a few days in their bastion to get teh charm, adn the charm isn't a "thing" that can be portaled, but more like a feature that is bequeathed on them.
If you want to grant a charm to the entire party, that's fine. Most bastion facilities at level 5 are kinda underwhelming, so making any charm apply to the whole party is probably nto a deal breaker.
I think some of the more interesting things start coming available at level 9 and up.
Thanks for the input (and glad I can finally read it now that forums are back). I'm not as drastically worried about random attacks since the bastion is located in Phandalin. While it's not a highly fortified town (like at all), my players have been endeavouring to encourage the training or a town watch / police force after ousting the Redbrands. I'm also sort of open to them dealing with facilities outside their bastion, like a smithy or barracks (though they obviously wouldn't have control of those). One of them did start the whole "you have to take these", and I want to reinforce the idea that they aren't in the middle of nowhere and shouldn't feel required to build their home some specific way.
The spell equivalent would be "Sending" and "Galder's Speedy Courier". Sending can transmit orders back and forth. Galders Speedy Courier can send objects back and forth.
Since I'm concerned my players will feel trapped by the Sending spell's word count, I basically wanted an option that they could act as a fast mail system. Write a small note, fold it and put it in the box, maybe make it big enough for a vial or something, but nothing much larger than that. Heck, maybe put a light on it to show something is inside the matched tiny box set. Never heard of Galder before, that's kind of cute, but I'm keeping the guys to their PHB cuz they had a tendency to read older rules and get mixed up. Plus, the Rogue really wants to go the business owner route, so I already know he's gonna ask for business records in the middle of a rest while they're in hostile land. That's also why I presented the idea of hiring someone to handle operations when they're away to relay requests for everyone.
RAW: charms go to the player who selected the special facility as part of their bastion, not the entire party. I think most charms require the player to spend a week or a few days in their bastion to get teh charm, adn the charm isn't a "thing" that can be portaled, but more like a feature that is bequeathed on them.
Had some time to think that over during the outage (had a session scheduled, but someone asked to postpone to next week, funny how that worked out). I think allowing duplicate charms is only going to set me up for future options. Heck, while 2-3 free Identify or Healing Word aren't that big a deal, if I let them each stack and use each other's facilities, I can picture everyone trying to run the storehouse at once (if anything, maybe I could bring that up for facilities that require more than 1 hireling, but even then). It's gonna be a mess if I place different rules on everything, so I'll just keep it consistent. I'm also picturing charms appearing as a temporary tattoo, that way they won't think they can start crafting 7 charm gizmos in a week per facility.
First, I don’t see anything in RAW that says you can only gain benefits from your facilities. Seems like they should be able to use them freely in that respect. But I would enforce the other requirements. For example, to get the benefits of an arcane study, they’d have to be able yo use an arcane focus or spell casting focus. (So no clerics and fighters, among others.) And, they would need to spend a long rest there. Most of them have some kind of time requirement that would stop things from stacking like that. I’d also only allow 1 character at a time in a facility like that. Two people would just be bumping into each other and not get enough study time. In practice, I’d think they won’t typically spend very long at the bastion to be able to get many benefits. And if they do stay for, I don’t know, 3 days and rotate around, then the person in the study first spends 2 days of their week still at the bastion, not really getting any benefit from being there.
As for the storehouse, I can’t see why more than one person could use it. You give the order to the storehouse, a second person giving the same order wouldn’t do anything new.
Very true, as long as requirements are met, I suppose the Arcane Trickster Rogue borrowing the Sorcerer's Arcane Study should be ok if it's not in use, but the Paladin still won't. I like that idea. That eliminates exponential stacking, and I'll just give priority to the original owner in case of jams. The rules are kind of vague, cuz I doubt the Arcane Study requires someone to sleep IN the room. I think the logical implication would be that whoever spent their 9-5 work day in there would be the one that gets the benefit during the long rest.
I can't see a world where the Rogue won't be using the Storehouse on cooldown. The worry I had is if all 3 suddenly want to use it at once and triple the Gold intake, or if they try to triple the Garden yields (although that one is a lot easier to explain how that wouldn't work). Since it's one hireling, the NPC will only get to do it for one of them, which will 99% of the time be the Rogue immediately as that day comes up.
I can't see a world where the Rogue won't be using the Storehouse on cooldown. The worry I had is if all 3 suddenly want to use it at once and triple the Gold intake, or if they try to triple the Garden yields (although that one is a lot easier to explain how that wouldn't work). Since it's one hireling, the NPC will only get to do it for one of them, which will 99% of the time be the Rogue immediately as that day comes up.
I think the distinction is in the case of the storehouse, you are not the one doing the thing. You give the order and someone else does it. Three people telling the guy working there to sell the stuff doesn’t make there be more stuff to sell, it just means the guy has 3 bosses telling him the same thing. Something like the study, it’s the character themselves who is doing the work. So different characters could go in and conceivably get the same benefit — once the general requirements are met.
Well each facility involves a hireling, though some provide the option of the player tagging and helping (usually for crafting). I guess some facilities like the Meditation Room only really uses the hireling for maintenance but for the most part it's all on the NPCs, and nearly all facilities have a set amount of time required for a turn order. The more this discussion proceeds the more I'm realizing, that while not overtly clarified as I read RAW, the goal really is to have a facility used by only 1 player per Bastion Turn (not counting if they somehow doubled up). Flavour aside, it should be fine. Plus it's not like that diegetic weekly turn happens THAT often. Given the means to contact back home, this will mostly happen during travel time, or in between bigger story beats i.e. with the gang completing the Lost Mines section, and before opening with the Shattered Obelisk section in Phandelver and Below.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hey folks, I'm curious how you're handling group bastions.
I'm DMing a Phandalin campaign, and my party had been meaning to take over the Sleeping Giant after they REALLY wanted the Redbrands gone (had them kidnap Sister Garalea and kill her friend, the inn cook). I managed to push this off in Chapter 2 and 3 with the pretext of the Linene and Darren trying to establish a town's own law enforcement unit and burying the mayor in paperwork, but now that they are level 5 and have returned from the Wave Echo Cave, I'm granting them a renovated Sleeping Giant as thanks for their services (well under a different name, but they haven't figured that out yet)... also this lets me give them a home instead of constantly staying at the Stonehill Inn and dealing with them trying to justify free lodging.
In order to not grind the session to an early screeching halt, I told them to think about what they want their facilities to be so we can retroactively have it built after the holidays. Since it is a party building, I told them they will all get a bedroom, then each choose 1 from the remaining basic facilities and their 2 special ones. I'm also highly suggesting that they hire a building manager to direct operations when they're away on top of their own hirelings. Then I gave them a pair of small matched magic lockboxes that portal to each other for communication and small item sharing precisely so they can keep touch with their hired manager (think the magic Harry Potter cabinet, but much smaller).
The part that has me most curious for your takes however is if you are treating special facilities as "separate" bastions per the players who chose them, or since it's a joint building, does everyone share? Obviously, anything that involves crafting would still have to be done on a per case basis, and it's not like everything cares for the amount of members present. However, what do you do with facilities that grant Charms like the Arcane Study or Sanctuary?
If anything, the only almost confirmed decision for 1/6 Special Facilities comes from the Sorcerer wanting an Arcane Study (truth be told, he kind of feels like more a Wizard, but I'm winging it as a curious hermit Sorcerer). Here's where I need your opinion (which, like I said, will surely factor in other stuff).
Stuff like the Storehouse or Gardens having limited space and access makes easy justifiable sense, but I wonder if I'm overthinking the Charm part.
Thoughts?
RAW: each player gets 2 special facilities at level 5. whether the bastion facilities are grouped together or in separate locations doesn't make much difference except in the situation where a bastion is attacked. (defenders can be shared during an attack). But an attack can only occur, RAW, when the players can't send orders to their bastions every week.
So, basically, as long as the players have sendingn stones, one with the party, one at the bastion, then they can send orders, and attacks can't happen. I suppose if you want to allow them to have a "manager" of some sort, that's another solution to avoid weeks with no orders and opening the bastion to an attack.
"a pair of small matched magic lockboxes that portal to each other for communication and small item sharing precisely so they can keep touch with their hired manager "
The spell equivalent would be "Sending" and "Galder's Speedy Courier". Sending can transmit orders back and forth. Galders Speedy Courier can send objects back and forth.
RAW: charms go to the player who selected the special facility as part of their bastion, not the entire party. I think most charms require the player to spend a week or a few days in their bastion to get teh charm, adn the charm isn't a "thing" that can be portaled, but more like a feature that is bequeathed on them.
If you want to grant a charm to the entire party, that's fine. Most bastion facilities at level 5 are kinda underwhelming, so making any charm apply to the whole party is probably nto a deal breaker.
I think some of the more interesting things start coming available at level 9 and up.
Thanks for the input (and glad I can finally read it now that forums are back).
I'm not as drastically worried about random attacks since the bastion is located in Phandalin. While it's not a highly fortified town (like at all), my players have been endeavouring to encourage the training or a town watch / police force after ousting the Redbrands. I'm also sort of open to them dealing with facilities outside their bastion, like a smithy or barracks (though they obviously wouldn't have control of those). One of them did start the whole "you have to take these", and I want to reinforce the idea that they aren't in the middle of nowhere and shouldn't feel required to build their home some specific way.
Since I'm concerned my players will feel trapped by the Sending spell's word count, I basically wanted an option that they could act as a fast mail system. Write a small note, fold it and put it in the box, maybe make it big enough for a vial or something, but nothing much larger than that. Heck, maybe put a light on it to show something is inside the matched tiny box set. Never heard of Galder before, that's kind of cute, but I'm keeping the guys to their PHB cuz they had a tendency to read older rules and get mixed up. Plus, the Rogue really wants to go the business owner route, so I already know he's gonna ask for business records in the middle of a rest while they're in hostile land. That's also why I presented the idea of hiring someone to handle operations when they're away to relay requests for everyone.
Had some time to think that over during the outage (had a session scheduled, but someone asked to postpone to next week, funny how that worked out).
I think allowing duplicate charms is only going to set me up for future options. Heck, while 2-3 free Identify or Healing Word aren't that big a deal, if I let them each stack and use each other's facilities, I can picture everyone trying to run the storehouse at once (if anything, maybe I could bring that up for facilities that require more than 1 hireling, but even then). It's gonna be a mess if I place different rules on everything, so I'll just keep it consistent.
I'm also picturing charms appearing as a temporary tattoo, that way they won't think they can start crafting 7 charm gizmos in a week per facility.
First, I don’t see anything in RAW that says you can only gain benefits from your facilities. Seems like they should be able to use them freely in that respect.
But I would enforce the other requirements. For example, to get the benefits of an arcane study, they’d have to be able yo use an arcane focus or spell casting focus. (So no clerics and fighters, among others.) And, they would need to spend a long rest there. Most of them have some kind of time requirement that would stop things from stacking like that. I’d also only allow 1 character at a time in a facility like that. Two people would just be bumping into each other and not get enough study time.
In practice, I’d think they won’t typically spend very long at the bastion to be able to get many benefits. And if they do stay for, I don’t know, 3 days and rotate around, then the person in the study first spends 2 days of their week still at the bastion, not really getting any benefit from being there.
As for the storehouse, I can’t see why more than one person could use it. You give the order to the storehouse, a second person giving the same order wouldn’t do anything new.
Very true, as long as requirements are met, I suppose the Arcane Trickster Rogue borrowing the Sorcerer's Arcane Study should be ok if it's not in use, but the Paladin still won't. I like that idea. That eliminates exponential stacking, and I'll just give priority to the original owner in case of jams. The rules are kind of vague, cuz I doubt the Arcane Study requires someone to sleep IN the room. I think the logical implication would be that whoever spent their 9-5 work day in there would be the one that gets the benefit during the long rest.
I can't see a world where the Rogue won't be using the Storehouse on cooldown. The worry I had is if all 3 suddenly want to use it at once and triple the Gold intake, or if they try to triple the Garden yields (although that one is a lot easier to explain how that wouldn't work). Since it's one hireling, the NPC will only get to do it for one of them, which will 99% of the time be the Rogue immediately as that day comes up.
I think the distinction is in the case of the storehouse, you are not the one doing the thing. You give the order and someone else does it. Three people telling the guy working there to sell the stuff doesn’t make there be more stuff to sell, it just means the guy has 3 bosses telling him the same thing.
Something like the study, it’s the character themselves who is doing the work. So different characters could go in and conceivably get the same benefit — once the general requirements are met.
Well each facility involves a hireling, though some provide the option of the player tagging and helping (usually for crafting). I guess some facilities like the Meditation Room only really uses the hireling for maintenance but for the most part it's all on the NPCs, and nearly all facilities have a set amount of time required for a turn order. The more this discussion proceeds the more I'm realizing, that while not overtly clarified as I read RAW, the goal really is to have a facility used by only 1 player per Bastion Turn (not counting if they somehow doubled up). Flavour aside, it should be fine. Plus it's not like that diegetic weekly turn happens THAT often. Given the means to contact back home, this will mostly happen during travel time, or in between bigger story beats i.e. with the gang completing the Lost Mines section, and before opening with the Shattered Obelisk section in Phandelver and Below.