I made a homebrew campaign for my 4 players and rethinking the ending. Simply put, there might not be enough room for players to make their own decisions and I'd like to improve that.
Bbeg is a high status aristocrat that formed a religious organization that helps people in need of protection from undead and curses. His plan - clear the continent from all curses and undead by a big ass ritual that needs 4 Spires that will connect with the main base, giving it enough mana to destroy every undead creature and all source of curses.
Their main enemy is basically Orsted from Mushoku tensei - extremely strong monk dragonborn with a variety of magic artifacts.
What's the plan for this campaign:
1 The group joins this organization after 2 tragic encounters with "Orsted"
2 They help finding artifacts and build defences from him(through a course of many missions)
3 they gradually find clues that their leader is hiding something
4 (and it's where I'm kinda lost) players go on a new mission - protecting one of their bases from bandits. In the process, they meet the leader of those bandits, who's actually their good friend and is actually a great guy - Sildar Hollwinter. He gives them an explanation that something is clearly wrong and their goal is very much unreachable, this leader is doing something else.
They agree that sildar will try and reach his good friend that was once in the organization and could enlighten them on their real plan.
Then they meet this friend, main enemy - "Orsted", who, after a brief misunderstanding, explains the real plan of the real BBEG and they start destroying all 4 spires, having to fight(or try and persuade) previous friends.
Is this plan alright? Or is it too forced and I should rewrite the big reveal, so they find out themselves, maybe asking the BBEG head on, getting destroyed(but not dying, maybe going to jail) in the process?
It’s too forced. Never assume you know what the PCs will do. You know what the bad guy wants to do, and even what will happen if no one interferes. You don’t know what the characters will do.
Even the first step, they join this organization, is too much. You can decide they might be invited to join, but they might say no. Heck, depending on how they handle the 2 tragic encounters, you might look at the organization and decide they would not be willing to work with the PCs. Try to keep things like that in mind, don’t get so attached to your idea for a plot that you push it through no matter what.
That’s the thing with a D&D campaign, you can’t start at the ending and work backwards. The characters might just go a different direction entirely.
There's a good framework there. You can definitely build on this. So you've got the "Big Good Guy" building a massive thing that will allegedly eliminate all undead and all curses from the land. That sounds great. But anyone with a double-digit Insight check should suspect that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
So maybe the Big Good Guy sends the party somewhere to find a Magical McGuffin that he needs for his ritual, or maybe the party is sent to clear out a distant tower to prepare it to become part of this ritual network. But along the way, the party finds an entire town of undead creatures - zombies, skeletons, etc. But the undead don't attack! In fact, they're just going about the normal daily chores like they did in life. And somehow the party finds out that this village is one of the "test ranges" that the Big Good Guy is using to test his ritual magic. Apparently, the Big Good Guy, like any diligent researcher, is conducting small experiments to ensure the success of the Big Experiment. So he's got his own covert team of evil priests going around murdering entire villages and then cursing them to become undead. And then the Big Good Guy tests his weapon on them!
Don't rely on an NPC to tell the players the plot. Sure, you can have NPC offer clues, but it's better to SHOW the players the plot! Let them find one of the failed experiments of the Big Good Guy's practice rituals. Let them see the suffering that he has caused to countless innocent people in his pursuit of perfection. Let them discover the truth on their own. Let them peek behind the curtain and see that the Big Good Guy is really just a Zealot who is perfectly content to destroy all undead even if it means destroying all of the living, too!
Oh, that's ok actually, we're already playing this for a while, they want through these 2 encounters and hate this "Orsted" To his core. They also discussed the idea of joining the organization with some members and I'm just waiting for them to meet with the leader, so they can discuss terms
Damn, the idea of "testing grounds" Is awesome, I'm totally including it in some way. I have a similar thing going on - in some of the old bases of this organization they'll find texts about their experiments with curing curses and stuff. About 80% of test subjects die horribly, and some tests aren't even focused on curing. More like torture to get the formula of a curse. Plus, eventually, in one of those quests they will find clues that villages and cities that were saved from an undead attack, bringing more people into the cult, were cursed by the same organization. That's how they gather forces, create a problem to solve it as heroes.
My biggest problem is:
When do I stop? How many clues will be enough to make sure, PCs will turn against the BBEG. And how should I transition to the second chapter, where they ultimately go **** em up
There's another step I wanna avoid. IF my players decide to still talk to the leader before doing anything seriously rash, how should I avoid a fight with an extremely high lvl enemy, guarded by the same high lvl warriors? It's either a TPK or prison break. One other idea I have - since they're under constant surveillance, BBEG would certainly expect their visit and make an illusion of himself, living his post to stay somewhere else, getting ready to complete his plan. They talk, he denies the accusations, and then:
1 - they attack and see that he's just an illusion
2 - they decide that they were wrong actually, and go to that mission with base protection I talked about.
But I just don't know if it's a good way to go about it
Give room for other quests to develop and things to happen that they can not change back.
What's the plan for this campaign:
1 The group joins this organization after 2 tragic encounters with "Orsted"
2 They help finding artifacts and build defences from him(through a course of many missions)
3 they gradually find clues that their leader is hiding something
4 (and it's where I'm kinda lost) players go on a new mission - protecting one of their bases from bandits. In the process, they meet the leader of those bandits, who's actually their good friend and is actually a great guy - Sildar Hollwinter. He gives them an explanation that something is clearly wrong and their goal is very much unreachable, this leader is doing something else.
1) The group may not need to join but form an Alliance, work as a hired gun, make their own unique bonds with the organization. (per character, has happened in one of my campaigns). Especially with the last one, that can customize your campaign to the individual players.
2) Just because they find an artifacts location, does not mean that they need to walk away with that. It can be taken by the BBEG, His General, that NPC that you wanted them to meet. Now you can also put in a misleading confrontation that hopefully you can figure out a way to roll play prior to them killing the NPC. LOL
3) Clues should be all over when you are trying to get players into their characters and characters into the mysteries. This you can make influence the world in ways that can not be undone. They need to obtain a clue from a violent tribe of kenku and instead of a fight the players convince them to play hot potato with and have to use something of value or shiney. From that point on any kenku band they meet requires a trade
4) Is this a character that is previously introduced or just the hashtag(#oldfriend)? Is he from a characters' backstory or is it your creation? If that Character is vital to the information being received and needs to be introduced, Plan multiple ways for this interaction to happen. Not in detail but in theory. he leads the opposing forces, he is defending an artifact that the party is trying to obtain(possibly from the party, how creative will you get? lol) he is leading a rouge group working for someone exposing corruption or deception.
The way I like to "plan" my sessions is with concepts and not events. There may be numerous events to achieve a single outcome but the idea will change the second you describe a situation to your players. They thought of the 12 things you didn't. Sometimes I may write out a brief monologue, but even that I prefer to keep to under 3 mins Max. I am comfortable with the 2 min mark. A lot can be said and the characters may not get bored and try and kill the NPC.
As for your final question, You can always pull a Strahd and just play with them until they feel run down and have him bail as this is all a joke and way to relax from his plans. Give your players that focal point of hate. from the time they meet him to the time can realistically fight him, just poke and prod at your players with him. that should be some fun role play for all of you lol
You are doing awesome, peace my friend. May your adventures be epic and treasures be bountiful.
Huge thanks! I think I figured out a few ways to kinda change things as I go, I have multiple NPCs that could lead to "Orsted" Instead of that old friend and if they confront the BBEG about his real plans, there will be a nice trap waiting for them. Not a full on fight but just a near death experience with some falling roof. If they believe his explanation tho, he'll just ask them to do the next mission and there will be that next big clue that is so obvious that it really contradicts BBEG's explanation. Plus some of your guys ideas, I will change to fit the campaign and use:3 You're all great, if you'd have any more tips - I'll be here
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Hey there.
I made a homebrew campaign for my 4 players and rethinking the ending. Simply put, there might not be enough room for players to make their own decisions and I'd like to improve that.
Bbeg is a high status aristocrat that formed a religious organization that helps people in need of protection from undead and curses. His plan - clear the continent from all curses and undead by a big ass ritual that needs 4 Spires that will connect with the main base, giving it enough mana to destroy every undead creature and all source of curses.
Their main enemy is basically Orsted from Mushoku tensei - extremely strong monk dragonborn with a variety of magic artifacts.
What's the plan for this campaign:
1 The group joins this organization after 2 tragic encounters with "Orsted"
2 They help finding artifacts and build defences from him(through a course of many missions)
3 they gradually find clues that their leader is hiding something
4 (and it's where I'm kinda lost) players go on a new mission - protecting one of their bases from bandits. In the process, they meet the leader of those bandits, who's actually their good friend and is actually a great guy - Sildar Hollwinter. He gives them an explanation that something is clearly wrong and their goal is very much unreachable, this leader is doing something else.
They agree that sildar will try and reach his good friend that was once in the organization and could enlighten them on their real plan.
Then they meet this friend, main enemy - "Orsted", who, after a brief misunderstanding, explains the real plan of the real BBEG and they start destroying all 4 spires, having to fight(or try and persuade) previous friends.
Is this plan alright? Or is it too forced and I should rewrite the big reveal, so they find out themselves, maybe asking the BBEG head on, getting destroyed(but not dying, maybe going to jail) in the process?
It’s too forced. Never assume you know what the PCs will do. You know what the bad guy wants to do, and even what will happen if no one interferes. You don’t know what the characters will do.
Even the first step, they join this organization, is too much. You can decide they might be invited to join, but they might say no. Heck, depending on how they handle the 2 tragic encounters, you might look at the organization and decide they would not be willing to work with the PCs. Try to keep things like that in mind, don’t get so attached to your idea for a plot that you push it through no matter what.
That’s the thing with a D&D campaign, you can’t start at the ending and work backwards. The characters might just go a different direction entirely.
There's a good framework there. You can definitely build on this. So you've got the "Big Good Guy" building a massive thing that will allegedly eliminate all undead and all curses from the land. That sounds great. But anyone with a double-digit Insight check should suspect that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
So maybe the Big Good Guy sends the party somewhere to find a Magical McGuffin that he needs for his ritual, or maybe the party is sent to clear out a distant tower to prepare it to become part of this ritual network. But along the way, the party finds an entire town of undead creatures - zombies, skeletons, etc. But the undead don't attack! In fact, they're just going about the normal daily chores like they did in life. And somehow the party finds out that this village is one of the "test ranges" that the Big Good Guy is using to test his ritual magic. Apparently, the Big Good Guy, like any diligent researcher, is conducting small experiments to ensure the success of the Big Experiment. So he's got his own covert team of evil priests going around murdering entire villages and then cursing them to become undead. And then the Big Good Guy tests his weapon on them!
Don't rely on an NPC to tell the players the plot. Sure, you can have NPC offer clues, but it's better to SHOW the players the plot! Let them find one of the failed experiments of the Big Good Guy's practice rituals. Let them see the suffering that he has caused to countless innocent people in his pursuit of perfection. Let them discover the truth on their own. Let them peek behind the curtain and see that the Big Good Guy is really just a Zealot who is perfectly content to destroy all undead even if it means destroying all of the living, too!
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
Oh, that's ok actually, we're already playing this for a while, they want through these 2 encounters and hate this "Orsted" To his core. They also discussed the idea of joining the organization with some members and I'm just waiting for them to meet with the leader, so they can discuss terms
Damn, the idea of "testing grounds" Is awesome, I'm totally including it in some way. I have a similar thing going on - in some of the old bases of this organization they'll find texts about their experiments with curing curses and stuff. About 80% of test subjects die horribly, and some tests aren't even focused on curing. More like torture to get the formula of a curse. Plus, eventually, in one of those quests they will find clues that villages and cities that were saved from an undead attack, bringing more people into the cult, were cursed by the same organization. That's how they gather forces, create a problem to solve it as heroes.
My biggest problem is:
When do I stop? How many clues will be enough to make sure, PCs will turn against the BBEG. And how should I transition to the second chapter, where they ultimately go **** em up
There's another step I wanna avoid. IF my players decide to still talk to the leader before doing anything seriously rash, how should I avoid a fight with an extremely high lvl enemy, guarded by the same high lvl warriors? It's either a TPK or prison break. One other idea I have - since they're under constant surveillance, BBEG would certainly expect their visit and make an illusion of himself, living his post to stay somewhere else, getting ready to complete his plan. They talk, he denies the accusations, and then:
1 - they attack and see that he's just an illusion
2 - they decide that they were wrong actually, and go to that mission with base protection I talked about.
But I just don't know if it's a good way to go about it
Give room for other quests to develop and things to happen that they can not change back.
What's the plan for this campaign:
1 The group joins this organization after 2 tragic encounters with "Orsted"
2 They help finding artifacts and build defences from him(through a course of many missions)
3 they gradually find clues that their leader is hiding something
4 (and it's where I'm kinda lost) players go on a new mission - protecting one of their bases from bandits. In the process, they meet the leader of those bandits, who's actually their good friend and is actually a great guy - Sildar Hollwinter. He gives them an explanation that something is clearly wrong and their goal is very much unreachable, this leader is doing something else.
1) The group may not need to join but form an Alliance, work as a hired gun, make their own unique bonds with the organization. (per character, has happened in one of my campaigns). Especially with the last one, that can customize your campaign to the individual players.
2) Just because they find an artifacts location, does not mean that they need to walk away with that. It can be taken by the BBEG, His General, that NPC that you wanted them to meet. Now you can also put in a misleading confrontation that hopefully you can figure out a way to roll play prior to them killing the NPC. LOL
3) Clues should be all over when you are trying to get players into their characters and characters into the mysteries. This you can make influence the world in ways that can not be undone. They need to obtain a clue from a violent tribe of kenku and instead of a fight the players convince them to play hot potato with and have to use something of value or shiney. From that point on any kenku band they meet requires a trade
4) Is this a character that is previously introduced or just the hashtag(#oldfriend)? Is he from a characters' backstory or is it your creation? If that Character is vital to the information being received and needs to be introduced, Plan multiple ways for this interaction to happen. Not in detail but in theory. he leads the opposing forces, he is defending an artifact that the party is trying to obtain(possibly from the party, how creative will you get? lol) he is leading a rouge group working for someone exposing corruption or deception.
The way I like to "plan" my sessions is with concepts and not events. There may be numerous events to achieve a single outcome but the idea will change the second you describe a situation to your players. They thought of the 12 things you didn't. Sometimes I may write out a brief monologue, but even that I prefer to keep to under 3 mins Max. I am comfortable with the 2 min mark. A lot can be said and the characters may not get bored and try and kill the NPC.
As for your final question, You can always pull a Strahd and just play with them until they feel run down and have him bail as this is all a joke and way to relax from his plans. Give your players that focal point of hate. from the time they meet him to the time can realistically fight him, just poke and prod at your players with him. that should be some fun role play for all of you lol
You are doing awesome, peace my friend. May your adventures be epic and treasures be bountiful.
Huge thanks! I think I figured out a few ways to kinda change things as I go, I have multiple NPCs that could lead to "Orsted" Instead of that old friend and if they confront the BBEG about his real plans, there will be a nice trap waiting for them. Not a full on fight but just a near death experience with some falling roof. If they believe his explanation tho, he'll just ask them to do the next mission and there will be that next big clue that is so obvious that it really contradicts BBEG's explanation. Plus some of your guys ideas, I will change to fit the campaign and use:3 You're all great, if you'd have any more tips - I'll be here