Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Hello fellow DM's
I'm a relatively new DM, running a game for my friends.
We are running Phandelver and below, and we are towards the end of Chapter 6, currently just entered Gibblet Crossing.
The party is lvl 8, 4 players: Bard(Glamour), Warlock(Archfey), Barbarian(Ancestral Guardian) and Druid(Wildfire)
They rolled SUPER high stats at the beginning(I was very generous) - everyone started with a main stat of 20 with the free lvl 1 feat I gave them.
And yet, they almost always end up in a TPK even when I just go with the events in the book as written, without making encounters any harder.
For example - both in Talhundreth and the Crypt of Talhund, they almost TPK multiple times, almost every encounter at least 1 of them falls unconscious.
They need to long rest almost every 2-3 rooms, but I naturally limit them to 1 long rest per day, but again- this brings them to being close to a TPK every time.
I dont understand what I'm doing wrong with the balancing. I had to step in multiple times to save them(as the warlock patron taking a cost or something similar).
When looking at the "pure CR" table and trying to understand, looking at Gibblet crossing in which the encounters are 3 medium, 1 hard and 4 deadly if they end up fighting everything(except the earth elementals), and I can't understand what I'm supposed to do, or how to guide my players.
This is something we had difficulty with for a long time - also had a TPK in Zorzulas rest, which I failed forward by having them taken captive and then escaping, but I can only do it so many times(they also lost when raiding Glasstaff in the redbrand hideout).
And I cant understand how the module expects them to beat some of even the single fights - like P15 in Crypt of Talhund: the 6 revenants. even 3 is considered deadly for a party like this according to the calculators.
They barely survived only because I completely removed the vengeance mechanic from the revenants. But still, I don't know what to do. One of the reasons I went with a module was to not worry too much about encounter balancing, and I see that it's still a huge issue.
Will appreciate any advice!
Thank you very much
One way to at least prevent more TPKs is to tell the party it’s okay to run away, it’s important to know when you’re going to get pounded to death. Is your party taking plenty of short rests? They are important for the adventuring day.
Another thing to remember is that not every combat is necessary, if there’s a way for the party to ignore it, maybe hint to them. One more thing, if there’s encounters too hard, you can always remove a couple enemies.
Them running away causes another issue: them sometimes thinking/trying to do 1 encounter -> tiny hut/escape the dungeon -> long rest -> go back in. like in a video game.
And to keep the stakes existent, I make it so that things progress(They lost 2 obelisk shards like that). So there's some balance there I might not have found yet,
And they are taking short rests - they often end up using almost all their hit die afte 1 encounter due to how bad they end up, and then more short rests dont help much either.
Sometimes I try to hint at them that they dont have to fight, but often they do/I dont know how to hint at how to avoid the combat.
Removing enemies is currently the only thing I can think of, but it makes me wonder what's wrong with me/my party, since the module should be balanced for a party which used standard array - and my party has much much higher stats.
Obvious question is what's the Bard up to? They're supposed to be a support class, using their spells to buff and heal everyone else, but I know with newer players especially (and I did it myself) you want to feel like you're killing things so ignore that and everyone else gets killed.
One big problem with Lost Mines of Phandelver, that now makes up the first half of Phandelver and Below, is that as a starter module it assumed that the premade characters would be used which included two fighters and a cleric. That's two tanky front liners soaking up all the damage and one person doing almost nothing but healing. As a result the combat often feels a bit over tuned if you don't have that. You've only got one front line fighter in the barbarian and although the druid and bard are both given healing spells players don't always take them.
It's not an ideal solution but probably the easiest is just to give them a free level up. That way they'll have more HP and more resources than expected for the encounters and might find them easier as a result. The other option is to start being a lot more generous with magic items
So the bard is actually a full support.
Only control spells, healing, and mantle of inspiration.
And Silvery Bars. A LOT of silvery barbs.
But in the crypt everything was immune to charm, so he couldn't help much.
And we're already halfway through the 2nd half - finishing chapter 6.
I am considering starting to give them more items- specifically potions.
I would still like to understand the source for this, because I will keep being the DM, so I want to improve and learn what actually causes this, rather than just throw magic items and potions at them.
Is it possibly their strategy or positioning? Maybe the enemies managed to group up on the party and turn it into a mosh pit scenario. How do you play the monsters, cause I’ve heard DMs struggle to make encounters deadly more than the opposite.
I dunno, I just play the monsters in the only logical way I can think of. They focus on either the thing that does the most damage to them(like the druid when she casts fire spells which are the undeads weakness), or avoid attacking what seems useless to attack(the barbarian)
Avoiding the Barbarian might be a big part of the problem. There's a saying that you should "shoot the monk" which basically means let the players do their cool thing, monks get an ability to catch arrows and throw them back so make sure you're shooting them so they get to show off. The Barbarian is a class designed to be on the front lines and soak up damage so no one else gets hit and thats probably what the barbarian player wants to happen, by constantly avoiding them you're both taking away that chance to feel like a tank but also focusing more on the three squishy players. Don't forget that to you as a DM know the barbarian can keep getting hit and keep going so it feels pointless aiming at them but to the goblins actually in the world all they know is the big person screaming and hitting them with an axe is their biggest threat and should be dealt with
This is very important.
As a DM, you know the "smart" option is to go for the squishies. That's what you would do if you were trying to wipe this party out. What's important to understand is that the DM is not trying to wipe the party out. That's trivially easy to do because you control the world. This a game for fun, and you're trying to make sure the players are having fun. You're trying to challenge them in a way which makes them feel like they're fulfilling their fantasy for the class.
That doesn't mean always going easy on the party. Not all enemies are created equal. Some are smarter than the others, so while a lot of the time you do want to go after the big tough guys, some enemies will recognize casters as the big threat and target them. If a caster wounds an enemy with something, retaliation is often in order. Mix things up a bit.
Basically all Undead hunger for life, so the Barbarian should be a prime target, plus you're kind of destroying the Barb's fun if they can't tank.
Apart from that, it sounds like team strategy is the issue. The Redbrand hideout should be relatively easy.
I didn't know this saying, but now I LOVE it "shoot the monk". I will absolutely try to do that more
Yeah, the whole point of this post is BECAUSE I'm NOT trying to wipe the party out.
And yeah, the targeting of the druid was after she used the 1 weakness of those enemies, so became a huge threat, so that will only be for mixing up, and maybe only if the monster INT is high enough
I love the "undead hunger for life" explanation!!! Will definitely keep it in mind!
Thank you all!
I will implement all these recommendations!
If you have any more, I would love to hear them, because one of the issues is that the party thinks they're super strategic and efficient, but end up not, but I think that's my DM bias(since I know the easy ways out). And one player(who controls both the druid and warlock) just keeps forgetting his spells, even when one of them can literally easily save the day(that happened multiple times)
I'm glad I was helpful. I think we found another issue. Managing to 8th level full casters is never going to go well. Picking the right spell is hard enough with one character.
One thing I didn't see among the other posts: Did they roll for health? They might just be having unlucky rolls with health and be taken out easier because of it.
He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones. Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
"You see a gigantic, monstrous praying mantis burst from out of the ground. It sprays a stream of acid from it's mouth at one soldier, dissolving him instantly, then it turns and chomps another soldier in half with it's- "
"When are we gonna take a snack break?"
Your party is also lacking in the damage department - Glamour Bards do almost no damage, and Druids have decent AoE damage but in 5e single-target damage is more valuable than AoE. And the 5.5e Warlock is pretty mediocre for damage. Support and control is only as good as saving throws get failed and conditions get applied, you might want to give the spellcasters some scrolls as loot to encourage them to try different spells if they are struggling with the ones they have picked.
You might alsomwant to consider giving them a few additional magic items, at level 8 they should each have at least one good uncommon item, and some should have a Rare item.
We are playing 5e not 5.5
Yeah, they definitely lack damage.
I am currently considering giving them magic items really, to see how it goes. I just worry I end up giving too much.
I plan on giving like 1 rare for each of them:
Barbarian: Bracers of Defense(Rare, to improve his survivability)
Warlock: Rod of the Pact Keeper+1(he always rolls really low, so it might help him)
Druid: Either Staff of Swarming Insects(for survivability too, since she can then use it to create obscurement for herself), or a homebrew moonsickle - no + to spell attack or DC, but instead allows 1/long rest a reaction when taking damage to misty step and turn invisible until the start of her next turn - again, for some survivability+improved healing
The Bard already has 2 rare items(1 from the module naturally): Staff of defense and Cli Lyre(essentially some religion thing in which he rolled a 100), and ring of mind shielding and Periapt of Health
Other than than, the only proper magic item the party has is MindGuard Crown(Very Rare) from the crypt of talhund in the hands of the Warlock
So I want to buff them
Before Chapter7 (when they're lvl 9) I also plan on giving them a merchant with a curated item list, since they have so much gold, and nothing to spend it on in Phandalin(close to 17,000 gp in items,gold and gems)
They use avg hp
Is it possible that they're forgetting to roll their HP when they level up, or that they're doing it incorrectly?
I once ran a campaign with a new player who didn't increase their health for like 4 levels and didn't know why everything was so hard for them suddenly.
In that case I'd suggest offering the opportunity to purchase some of the following as what they feel they are missing might be something different from what you feel like they are missing:
1x Pearl of Power - super useful for the casters if they are chonically running out of spellslots and feeling like they need to rest.
Unlimited +2 Weapons - these are the most basic weapons martial characters would expect to have at these levels, if the Barbarian has 5e Great Weapon Master, then you might want to reduce these to +1 but since you don't have a character casting Bless in every combat it's probably not a big deal.
1x Wand of Magic Missile - this is the weakest of the magic wands but is good for an emergency blast to kill an enemy that's about the murder a party member.
1x Immovable Rod - this allows you to give them more escape options if a fight is going badly as they can run away, slap the door shut and Immovable-Rod it closed long enough for them to heal themselves up.
1x Staff of Healing - if the Druid / Bard are running out of spellslots and that's why they aren't healing their buddies this gives them a way to still be able to heal without "wasting" spellslots on it.
1x Cloak of Elvenkind - even if they don't buy it, you are at least putting the idea in their head that maybe they could sneak past some enemies rather than fighting everything.
1x Gem of Brightness - this is limited use so if you find it starts unbalancing the game not to worry it will use itself up quickly if they start abusing it.
1x Figurine of Wondrous Power - since these can only be used 1/week they are great as an emergency avoid-TPK item that they can't abuse every combat.
Unlimited Rings of Resistance - Barbarians are designed to have survivability through soaking damage with HP & Resistances, not by attacks missing them because of AC, so if the adventure has lots of non bludge/slash/pierce damage it's really beneficial to give the barbarian some way to get additional damage resistances. Because of attunement it's pretty safe to hand out these rings because its not possible to stack lots of them together.