One of my players, who's not so new to the game but has a decent amount of knowledge of the game's lore. He asks me if he can play Tiefling Warlock who has a devil sharing his body as a mutual relationship in order for both to survive. But one in control is the devil not the humanoid. So now the devil is more or less stuck in the body of the Tiefling and experiencing the life of a normal being whilst still providing powers to the body itself (Thus the pact powers). He claims that the devil is slowly regaining power through (leveling up) normally.
When i asked why not play it normally he said he wants to play something different rather than the normal the devil/demon within. I told him to hold off on that thought while i think about it. So now i come here to see your opinions.
Note: The devil is meant to be stuck for the end of time inside the body of the Tiefling but the devil does not know that and thinks that there is a way to separate them without risking dying.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
Yeah, if statistically your player is fine with being like any other Demon Pact Teifling Warlock, then what does it matter how they flavor it? As long as you are clear that it mostly won't make any difference mechanically, then it shouldn't be an issue. It might open up some fun story opportunities as well as some interesting quest hooks.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
I think it sounds interesting. So, what's the problem?
The problem would be on character's actual death since Devils go back to the nine hells to reform.... also playing a devil and the interaction in holy places....?
Yeah, if statistically your player is fine with being like any other Demon Pact Teifling Warlock, then what does it matter how they flavor it? As long as you are clear that it mostly won't make any difference mechanically, then it shouldn't be an issue. It might open up some fun story opportunities as well as some interesting quest hooks.
it does go in a flavor way, it's just that i am unsure of how to handle few things such as death, and perhaps "detect good and evil" or "Divine sense".
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Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
What I'd suggest is that you let the player run with it - keep the mechanics the same, but in the event that the player dies, the devil would return to the outer planes and reform, while the character could be resurrected - but the mechanics wouldn't change. All that time the devil spent inside changed the character to the point where he has all the same abilities, but perhaps now his motivation changes in that he's looking for something he's lost, i.e., the devil inside.
I think it sounds interesting. So, what's the problem?
The problem would be on character's actual death since Devils go back to the nine hells to reform.... also playing a devil and the interaction in holy places....?
Yeah, if statistically your player is fine with being like any other Demon Pact Teifling Warlock, then what does it matter how they flavor it? As long as you are clear that it mostly won't make any difference mechanically, then it shouldn't be an issue. It might open up some fun story opportunities as well as some interesting quest hooks.
it does go in a flavor way, it's just that i am unsure of how to handle few things such as death, and perhaps "detect good and evil" or "Divine sense".
Here's how to handle the few things that you aren't sure how to handle: as if the character were just a normal tiefling warlock, full stop.
Don't give any extra benefits the player might try to reason they should have for having a fiend inside the humanoid body of the character, and don't create any negatives to it either - if the "I just wanted to do something different" line holds true, the player will be satisfied. Only if the player was trying to get one over on you/the game/the rest of the play group will they have any kind of objection to their character being treated as a normal humanoid instead of a fiend.
As for the "why?" behind none of the rules being different, that is simple; the fiend isn't a fiend - it's a consciousness piloting a humanoid, so all the rules act upon the combination as being a humanoid. Much like how using magic jar says "Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the creature..." And for death and resurrection bringing the fiend back still inside the humanoid body? That's fine; the whole "fiend is eternally trapped inside the tiefling" thing is already in the realm of not being covered or supported by any rules text, so there is no reason not to make a ruling that avoids creating new issues to deal with like the fiend "escaping" if the host body is killed. Especially because if the fiend wants to get out, it would probably try killing the host body itself if it thought it would work.
I agree that they would functionally be no different from any other tiefling warlock. He gets to flavor it as demony as possible, but all this time spent bonded to the soul of the humanoid stops most other effects from coming into play. In line with my Yoko Kurama reference, ask him how much his time growing up as a tiefling(human) has changed the demon in any way? As a baby the demon would not want people to detect him or they would likely kill him before he could mature. Perhaps he has finally begin to understand love or something similar that a demon would normally never experience.
I picture in my head a toddler thinking about how much they just want to kill all these goody goody people and send them to the fiery hells, but not being tall enough to reach the kitchen knives.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I agree that they would functionally be no different from any other tiefling warlock. He gets to flavor it as demony as possible, but all this time spent bonded to the soul of the humanoid stops most other effects from coming into play. In line with my Yoko Kurama reference, ask him how much his time growing up as a tiefling(human) has changed the demon in any way? As a baby the demon would not want people to detect him or they would likely kill him before he could mature. Perhaps he has finally begin to understand love or something similar that a demon would normally never experience.
I picture in my head a toddler thinking about how much they just want to kill all these goody goody people and send them to the fiery hells, but not being tall enough to reach the kitchen knives.
I haven't seen the anime you are talking about but, you said the exact same thing as he did "A devil inside toddler wanting to kill those around him" but that was the shorter version. I am currently waiting for the full lore so i can somehow fit him in the campaign.
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Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
From my own experience players do these in order to cheat the dm into accepting that he plays a monster from the book. It starts as a flavor but as the character grow they expectcthe dm to give them the stats in the mm.
Mind you not everyone is like that so i agree if it stays flavorful then go for it. As for the problems you mention... To me they are not problems. Basically if he dies and the demon go back... The body doesnt ! Meaning they either separate from each others or the body made the demon killable on this realm. Both choices are bad for the player reguardless.
As for divine... I dont see why people shouldnt see the demon. It actually gives you hooks and the fun of the player trying to explain a paladin why his type triggers as fiend.
As mention. Just dont give him boost or penalties and everything should be fine.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I would second DnDPaladin's concerns on this one, and just work out a hard set of rules on how these things will work. Then, inform the player of them BEFORE he starts playing the character, so he understands the consequences of the character choice, and that there is no way in hell (pun intended) that you're going to allow certain shenanigans with it. That way, he's not surprised when he gets the negative consequences, such as "oops you're a fiend" without getting all the special devil stats he may be expecting.
I would advise the opposite - Demons are beings of Chaos, your player can hardly complain if the chaotic nature of the demon bubbles to the surface occasionally.
Any time you need a story hook, or things are going a little too smoothly, hit the player and his companions with a demonic bump in the trail; Dungeons and Dragons is not a game you have to win, but an experience to be enjoyed with friends.
A demon inhabiting a PC is a DM's godsend. :D
"Be careful what you wish for......"
Edit - how do you slay the demon of double line spacing?
Edit - how do you slay the demon of double line spacing?
Shift+Enter when you don't want a double space seems to work
In general... I'll be editing this post if it doesn't work here.
But it at least looks like it does while writing this post.
works with a keybopard, but those on a phone are stuck with double spacing. there is no way to avoid it when posting on a phone.
the reason it does that is because it consider the enter key as a paragraph, paragrph are double spaced fromt he other paragraphs, hitting the enter+shift key tells the board that it is not the end of a paragraph but just a line carriage. but again, while this works great on a desktop computer or laptop computer, it doesn't really work on a phone or tablet unless you have an actual keyboard working on it.
yeah that sucks...
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I would advise the opposite - Demons are beings of Chaos, your player can hardly complain if the chaotic nature of the demon bubbles to the surface occasionally.
Any time you need a story hook, or things are going a little too smoothly, hit the player and his companions with a demonic bump in the trail; Dungeons and Dragons is not a game you have to win, but an experience to be enjoyed with friends.
A demon inhabiting a PC is a DM's godsend. :D
"Be careful what you wish for......"
Edit - how do you slay the demon of double line spacing?
i had plenty of players doing this to me, it is far from a godsend, it unbalances the game for other players who have normal characters, because it often feel that the game is leaning toward you because you have these special powers. even more if you start giving that player what he wants and that is more powers then regular players. yes its a treasure trove of hooks, but it is also a double edged sword that could wreck your game if you are not careful.
As a side note... i have 2 players in one of my group that are way too into anime stuff. they have what they call loli, i don't even know what that means... but they told me they are basically tielfings without the appearance of demons except horns and tails. so i said, oh you mean incubi and succubi. ok. funny thing they didn't know what those were. but in the end i allowed it because it was just reskinned stuff. all that said once they started telling me that if they die they go back to their realm and father, i started saying wait a second. i don't care if it is only reskins but i do care if you start adding abilities without my conscent. we talked about it they explained what they meant and i allowed it because it was just them going back to hell and their characters didn't want that to happen. so basically it was more of a flaw to them, so i accepted it because i love flaws !
also you speak of demons, but you have to make a difference here... demon or devil, because both are not the same thing. most players when refering to the demons actually refers to devils, and devils are lawful not chaotic. they like order and precise contracting. even demons are not that chaotic when you consider what they do with mortals. demons more often just pass their taste for sins cruelty. while devils do that with much more subtlety. so i'd ask a player to explain the kind of devil or demon and explain the difference.
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
typically loli refers to lolicon... but anyways DnDPaladin probably has a good point in making sure they don't hijack the story to the exclusion of the other players. As to roleplaying things like divine sense, I would probably not have it directly detect them as a fiend, more like something 'smells' off about them to their divine senses, but they probably can't pin down why. The reason I suggest this is again the idea that they have been bonded to a mortal body (and/or soul) for a fairly long time disguising their nature to most cursory checks. Probably would not stand up to a thorough investigation.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
HeroZero, it entirely depends on your campaign and on how your definition of a demon/devil. the reason i say in my campaign it would register as fiend entirely is that fiends, unless using magics to hide their nature, cannot hide it under any circumstances. their nature is literally too strong to be hidden. small anecdote...
3 years ago one of my player was a fiend, he actually used magic to hide his alignment and type from people. so to any paladins they registered as neutral and humans. it was awesome playing with him hiding these. then one day after a dispel magic was cast on the person to remove all magical shit, he forgot to cast the magic again for 2 days. so the paladin who did reuse his stuff over and ver because he wanted more insight as to why the guy was acting evil more then usual. during those two days, he literally registered as fiend and evil to the paladin. the role play that ensued was phenominal ! paladin working with fiends was so much fun in that game. worked well too until the paladin had to kill the fiend for trying to corrupt the other members.
but yeah it really depends on your campaign and your world. in mine, no fiends can hide who they are and most of them do not hide who they are. That said magic can help hide it.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
also you speak of demons, but you have to make a difference here... demon or devil, because both are not the same thing. most players when refering to the demons actually refers to devils, and devils are lawful not chaotic. they like order and precise contracting. even demons are not that chaotic when you consider what they do with mortals. demons more often just pass their taste for sins cruelty. while devils do that with much more subtlety. so i'd ask a player to explain the kind of devil or demon and explain the difference.
Yes, I speak of demons. The OP did specifically mention a devil, but a lot of other posters, yourself included, started using the term demon.
Devils are lawful, but do mortals understand those laws? Complex laws you don't understand will seem chaotic, much the same way as a television set would appear magical to Gandalf - "Look a square Palantir!"
Evidence of argument:
These are some of the most bizarre outdated laws in the world:
In Japan, women are legally obliged to wear bras in buildings with air conditioning.
It is illegal to drag a dead horse down Yonge Street in Toronto, Canada - but on a Sunday.
Only licensed electricians may change a light bulb in Australia.
In France, it is illegal for an individual to name their pig Napoleon, out of respect for Napoleon Bonaparte. It's unclear what the law would make of the pig antagonist Napoleon in George Orwell's Animal Farm.
In the UK, MPs are banned from wearing a full suit of armour in Parliament. It's also illegal to handle a salmon "in a suspicious manner" or import potatoes into England if you have reasonable cause to suspect they are Polish.
In South Korea, traffic police are required by law to report all bribes they receive from motorists.
In the Netherlands, it is illegal to impersonate a blind person - but only at night.
In Mexico, bicycle riders must not lift either foot from the pedals.
Just because your players have outwitted you, does not mean all players are attempting the same, or that the OP will have to fall prey to this. Ultimately, players and their characters are just pawns of the DM. The illusion of freewill is something YOU give them.
Demon or Devil, chaotic or lawful (their laws), ultimately makes no difference. Both groups are Evil through and through. Any party discovering such an entity in their midst really ought to be considering calling a high priest*.
*Disclaimer : Coldfire trilogy by Celia S. Friedman.
Plundered tombs... i'd never play under your rules then, because as far as i am concerned... this game is a group effort, not a DM tell story and players are spectators.
as for the OP saying devils and not demons... he edited his post later on. he had said demon at first thus why we all assumed he either didn't know the difference between demon and devils or that his players didn't.
as for players outwitting a DM, thats a major problem if they actually try that in your game. outwitting the DM means you literally play against him instead of with him. i promote a player and DM experience where both have 50/50 on the control of the game. if my players are willing to do 50/50 then i'm willing to do 50/50 as well. but if a player wants 90/10 then i'm not allowing that player into my games. also, you expect me to stereotype players... something i am not doing at all. speaking in generals based on literally true information i have accumulated over the 20 years of D&D that i played. in 20 years i have played with about 10 groups, along those 10 groups the one i run now, has had about 15 people coming and going during the last 3 years. thats over 50 people i played with. and i can safely say that of all the people... about half of them wanted to play a monster from the monster manual instead of a player character. there is a reason why the savage book existed in 3.5e because a ton of players wanted to play monsters instead of playable regular heroes. and all those with whom i tryed to give them a sense of monsterisation, pretty much all expected me to give them straight out the monster from the book. including the fact that they thought i'd allow them to be level 20 from the get go. as soon as i started telling them they'd have to level up into the monster class, they backed out of it or tryed to reskin PCs in hope i would change my mind mid game and give them the monster.
exemple of reskin i did recently... i gave my cousin a yuan-ti pureblood race, but changed the poison spray to a whooping 4 more arms. but those arms wouldn't be used for attacking or defense.
literally the first thing he did, was take 6 swords to the face of a monster, i told him not to do that again, he did understand, so he decided to arm himself with 4 shields instead and 2 swords... why ? because to him it was not possible to have arms unable to attack or dedfend and so ignored me entirely. no wonder i had to boot him up from the game. and he was not the first to do that, he will not be the last.
moral of the story... this is a group game, not "my game my rules and you be spectators to my madness" if people wanted that they'd be watching movies or reading books instead. by todays standard this game has turned into "our table, our game" as long as the players are willing to do the first 50% the DM is willing to do the last 50. as for demons and devils being so evil that on sight you have to kill them.. again i won't be ever playing with you and your stereotypes. next thing you will call me out on is that gold dragons cannot be evil under any circumstances. or that paladins must all be lawful good and even if from different countries they will always do the right thing because paladins. sorry but i am not buying this at all. everyone has their own agendas, everyone has their own personnalities. it is those players who bring those personnalities up, not the DM. and if you are the type that railroad your games by not giving any choices to your players, thats your choice, but thats not D&D to me.
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One of my players, who's not so new to the game but has a decent amount of knowledge of the game's lore. He asks me if he can play Tiefling Warlock who has a devil sharing his body as a mutual relationship in order for both to survive. But one in control is the devil not the humanoid. So now the devil is more or less stuck in the body of the Tiefling and experiencing the life of a normal being whilst still providing powers to the body itself (Thus the pact powers). He claims that the devil is slowly regaining power through (leveling up) normally.
When i asked why not play it normally he said he wants to play something different rather than the normal the devil/demon within. I told him to hold off on that thought while i think about it. So now i come here to see your opinions.
Note: The devil is meant to be stuck for the end of time inside the body of the Tiefling but the devil does not know that and thinks that there is a way to separate them without risking dying.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
I think it sounds interesting. So, what's the problem?
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Yeah, if statistically your player is fine with being like any other Demon Pact Teifling Warlock, then what does it matter how they flavor it? As long as you are clear that it mostly won't make any difference mechanically, then it shouldn't be an issue. It might open up some fun story opportunities as well as some interesting quest hooks.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
What I'd suggest is that you let the player run with it - keep the mechanics the same, but in the event that the player dies, the devil would return to the outer planes and reform, while the character could be resurrected - but the mechanics wouldn't change. All that time the devil spent inside changed the character to the point where he has all the same abilities, but perhaps now his motivation changes in that he's looking for something he's lost, i.e., the devil inside.
IS it the return of Yoko Kurama?
http://yuyuhakusho.wikia.com/wiki/Kurama
I agree that they would functionally be no different from any other tiefling warlock. He gets to flavor it as demony as possible, but all this time spent bonded to the soul of the humanoid stops most other effects from coming into play. In line with my Yoko Kurama reference, ask him how much his time growing up as a tiefling(human) has changed the demon in any way? As a baby the demon would not want people to detect him or they would likely kill him before he could mature. Perhaps he has finally begin to understand love or something similar that a demon would normally never experience.
I picture in my head a toddler thinking about how much they just want to kill all these goody goody people and send them to the fiery hells, but not being tall enough to reach the kitchen knives.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
From my own experience players do these in order to cheat the dm into accepting that he plays a monster from the book. It starts as a flavor but as the character grow they expectcthe dm to give them the stats in the mm.
Mind you not everyone is like that so i agree if it stays flavorful then go for it. As for the problems you mention... To me they are not problems. Basically if he dies and the demon go back... The body doesnt ! Meaning they either separate from each others or the body made the demon killable on this realm. Both choices are bad for the player reguardless.
As for divine... I dont see why people shouldnt see the demon. It actually gives you hooks and the fun of the player trying to explain a paladin why his type triggers as fiend.
As mention. Just dont give him boost or penalties and everything should be fine.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I would second DnDPaladin's concerns on this one, and just work out a hard set of rules on how these things will work. Then, inform the player of them BEFORE he starts playing the character, so he understands the consequences of the character choice, and that there is no way in hell (pun intended) that you're going to allow certain shenanigans with it. That way, he's not surprised when he gets the negative consequences, such as "oops you're a fiend" without getting all the special devil stats he may be expecting.
Hard and fast rules?
For a demon?
I would advise the opposite - Demons are beings of Chaos, your player can hardly complain if the chaotic nature of the demon bubbles to the surface occasionally.
Any time you need a story hook, or things are going a little too smoothly, hit the player and his companions with a demonic bump in the trail; Dungeons and Dragons is not a game you have to win, but an experience to be enjoyed with friends.
A demon inhabiting a PC is a DM's godsend. :D
"Be careful what you wish for......"
Edit - how do you slay the demon of double line spacing?
Roleplaying since Runequest.
In general... I'll be editing this post if it doesn't work here.
But it at least looks like it does while writing this post.
I was thinking the same...kinda reminds me of the dark phoenix saga from the X-men.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
i have 2 players in one of my group that are way too into anime stuff.
they have what they call loli, i don't even know what that means... but they told me they are basically tielfings without the appearance of demons except horns and tails. so i said, oh you mean incubi and succubi. ok. funny thing they didn't know what those were. but in the end i allowed it because it was just reskinned stuff. all that said once they started telling me that if they die they go back to their realm and father, i started saying wait a second. i don't care if it is only reskins but i do care if you start adding abilities without my conscent. we talked about it they explained what they meant and i allowed it because it was just them going back to hell and their characters didn't want that to happen. so basically it was more of a flaw to them, so i accepted it because i love flaws !
most players when refering to the demons actually refers to devils, and devils are lawful not chaotic. they like order and precise contracting.
even demons are not that chaotic when you consider what they do with mortals. demons more often just pass their taste for sins cruelty. while devils do that with much more subtlety. so i'd ask a player to explain the kind of devil or demon and explain the difference.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
typically loli refers to lolicon... but anyways DnDPaladin probably has a good point in making sure they don't hijack the story to the exclusion of the other players. As to roleplaying things like divine sense, I would probably not have it directly detect them as a fiend, more like something 'smells' off about them to their divine senses, but they probably can't pin down why. The reason I suggest this is again the idea that they have been bonded to a mortal body (and/or soul) for a fairly long time disguising their nature to most cursory checks. Probably would not stand up to a thorough investigation.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
HeroZero, it entirely depends on your campaign and on how your definition of a demon/devil.
the reason i say in my campaign it would register as fiend entirely is that fiends, unless using magics to hide their nature, cannot hide it under any circumstances. their nature is literally too strong to be hidden. small anecdote...
3 years ago one of my player was a fiend, he actually used magic to hide his alignment and type from people. so to any paladins they registered as neutral and humans. it was awesome playing with him hiding these. then one day after a dispel magic was cast on the person to remove all magical shit, he forgot to cast the magic again for 2 days. so the paladin who did reuse his stuff over and ver because he wanted more insight as to why the guy was acting evil more then usual. during those two days, he literally registered as fiend and evil to the paladin. the role play that ensued was phenominal ! paladin working with fiends was so much fun in that game. worked well too until the paladin had to kill the fiend for trying to corrupt the other members.
but yeah it really depends on your campaign and your world. in mine, no fiends can hide who they are and most of them do not hide who they are. That said magic can help hide it.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
The OP did specifically mention a devil, but a lot of other posters, yourself included, started using the term demon.
Complex laws you don't understand will seem chaotic, much the same way as a television set would appear magical to Gandalf - "Look a square Palantir!"
These are some of the most bizarre outdated laws in the world:
Source : http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/9-of-the-most-bizarre-laws-in-the-world-a6770126.html
Just because your players have outwitted you, does not mean all players are attempting the same, or that the OP will have to fall prey to this.
Ultimately, players and their characters are just pawns of the DM. The illusion of freewill is something YOU give them.
Demon or Devil, chaotic or lawful (their laws), ultimately makes no difference. Both groups are Evil through and through.
Any party discovering such an entity in their midst really ought to be considering calling a high priest*.
*Disclaimer : Coldfire trilogy by Celia S. Friedman.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
Plundered tombs... i'd never play under your rules then, because as far as i am concerned... this game is a group effort, not a DM tell story and players are spectators.
as for the OP saying devils and not demons... he edited his post later on. he had said demon at first thus why we all assumed he either didn't know the difference between demon and devils or that his players didn't.
as for players outwitting a DM, thats a major problem if they actually try that in your game. outwitting the DM means you literally play against him instead of with him. i promote a player and DM experience where both have 50/50 on the control of the game. if my players are willing to do 50/50 then i'm willing to do 50/50 as well. but if a player wants 90/10 then i'm not allowing that player into my games. also, you expect me to stereotype players... something i am not doing at all. speaking in generals based on literally true information i have accumulated over the 20 years of D&D that i played. in 20 years i have played with about 10 groups, along those 10 groups the one i run now, has had about 15 people coming and going during the last 3 years. thats over 50 people i played with. and i can safely say that of all the people... about half of them wanted to play a monster from the monster manual instead of a player character. there is a reason why the savage book existed in 3.5e because a ton of players wanted to play monsters instead of playable regular heroes. and all those with whom i tryed to give them a sense of monsterisation, pretty much all expected me to give them straight out the monster from the book. including the fact that they thought i'd allow them to be level 20 from the get go. as soon as i started telling them they'd have to level up into the monster class, they backed out of it or tryed to reskin PCs in hope i would change my mind mid game and give them the monster.
exemple of reskin i did recently...
i gave my cousin a yuan-ti pureblood race, but changed the poison spray to a whooping 4 more arms. but those arms wouldn't be used for attacking or defense.
literally the first thing he did, was take 6 swords to the face of a monster, i told him not to do that again, he did understand, so he decided to arm himself with 4 shields instead and 2 swords... why ? because to him it was not possible to have arms unable to attack or dedfend and so ignored me entirely. no wonder i had to boot him up from the game. and he was not the first to do that, he will not be the last.
moral of the story...
this is a group game, not "my game my rules and you be spectators to my madness" if people wanted that they'd be watching movies or reading books instead.
by todays standard this game has turned into "our table, our game" as long as the players are willing to do the first 50% the DM is willing to do the last 50. as for demons and devils being so evil that on sight you have to kill them.. again i won't be ever playing with you and your stereotypes. next thing you will call me out on is that gold dragons cannot be evil under any circumstances. or that paladins must all be lawful good and even if from different countries they will always do the right thing because paladins. sorry but i am not buying this at all. everyone has their own agendas, everyone has their own personnalities. it is those players who bring those personnalities up, not the DM. and if you are the type that railroad your games by not giving any choices to your players, thats your choice, but thats not D&D to me.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)