I threw one of my players for a loop in our last session and now she's really caught on what choice to make.
The party met a tribe of Dragonborn, in my world they're like North American Indian tribes. When they were brought to the tribe's shaman the player was informed that it may be possible for the shaman to remove the connection to her Warlock patron. He went on to explain that, in his experience, these patrons were fiendish and prayed on the weak, catching them in their most vulnerable states and taking advantage of that. He talked with her a bit and, after a bit, softened his stance saying it was her choice as to what would happen with the connection to her patron. He softened his stance because the player explained that there was no pact made, simply a request by her patron to be it's eyes and ears, even referring to her as his avatar, in this realm in return for the powers she obtained.
Question:
As a player what would you do with this information?
As a DM how would you handle the situation if the player chose to have the connection to the patron severed?
*as always feel free to ask questions if you want more information*
Maybe she becomes a wizard of that level, losing the eldritch powers, but also losing the restraints she had in being able to cast spells (2/short or long rest), but that her spells are now varied with power (levels of spell slot instead of the 2 always maxed). Or, she could become just a regular non-magic person, and the player could opt to retire her, so to speak, and potentially create a new one.
As a player, it would really depend on how attached I was to the PC, and how invested I was in the character's bg/story.
As a Player: This would really depend on my Character concept, backstory, and how my Character feels about the pact and the relationship with their Patron. However, I would absolutely file the knowledge away, keeping in mind that there may be an "out" of the pact/relationship. There's a escape clause in this contract.
As a DM: I view pact magic abilities as being "gifted" to the Warlock - meaning those abilities become part of them. This is contrast to the Cleric who is a conduit of Divine abilities which flow from their faith, or their God ( depending on how "old school" you tend to view Clerics ), so breaking that relationship and/or losing that faith would cause them to no longer be able to wield divine magic.
So, if I had a Player sever the connection to their Patron, they would retain their levels in Warlock, but they would obviously not be able to gain any further levels. I would immediately require the Player to multi-class into some other class.
From a world/campaign perspective, I would need to examine what the Patron reaction would be. It's possible that there now exists a state of enmity between the former-Warlock and their former Patron, which could lead to some interesting problems/opportunities/adventures for the Party, if the Patron decided to seek revenge against the former Warlock and her allies.
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
As a player, it would really depend on how attached I was to the PC, and how invested I was in the character's bg/story.
Cool conundrum, though.
This is where it gets tricky... The character has no background, she was an orphan and all reference to her history has been lost. She ended up connecting with a Great Old One patron while in a moment of weakness looking for answers. The patron gave her power and offered to help her find answers, in return she be his eyes and ears in this realm. Weeks later the patron manifested his power to take a physical form, he shaped water into his image, and explained to her, and her party, that he could not interfere with this realm in any way. He went on to tell them all that they had power that could shape the world and history, beyond merely a kingdom or a continent, something that could change an era.
So now she's stuck, as I said in the first post. Keep with the patron and potentially get answers, separate from the patron and search on her own, or something else.
I like Vedexent's approach, too - no more Warlock levels.
And I apologize for not necessarily being more clear. As a player, it would potentially depend on how invested I was in this character.
Since you're the DM, do you have an idea for the PCs background?
Thank you :) It all depends on how you envision Warlock power working. If you view it as the power being sourced from the Patron, the conversion over to Wizard makes more sense.
And - yes - this is how I've handled amnesiac Character backgrounds as well. If the Player hasn't created a history, and the Character doesn't know about their past, I'll damn well make up a backstory for them. *rubs hands together gleefully while cackling maniacally*
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
As a DM: I view pact magic abilities as being "gifted" to the Warlock - meaning those abilities become part of them. This is contrast to the Cleric who is a conduit of Divine abilities which flow from their faith, or their God ( depending on how "old school" you tend to view Clerics ), so breaking that relationship and/or losing that faith would cause them to no longer be able to wield divine magic.
So, if I had a Player sever the connection to their Patron, they would retain their levels in Warlock, but they would obviously not be able to gain any further levels. I would immediately require the Player to multi-class into some other class.
From a world/campaign perspective, I would need to examine what the Patron reaction would be. It's possible that there now exists a state of enmity between the former-Warlock and their former Patron, which could lead to some interesting problems/opportunities/adventures for the Party, if the Patron decided to seek revenge against the former Warlock and her allies.
As is the case with you and me, I've settled on very similar ideas for how it will play out. I'm hoping for other ideas that could be interesting as well, such as Cardinal_Fang's idea.
Since you're the DM, do you have an idea for the PCs background?
Yea, she's going to be the daughter of one of the apparent, not necessarily accurate, bad guys. He didn't want her to be associated with the dishonor that he put on the family name. His powers, and influence, allowed him to have all records of their connection to be removed. I'm going to have the effect be removed the first time they meet, she'll have memories of him, records that were blank will fill out, people who should remember will, etc. So, whether she keeps the patron or not, she'll get her answers.
I threw one of my players for a loop in our last session and now she's really caught on what choice to make.
The party met a tribe of Dragonborn, in my world they're like North American Indian tribes. When they were brought to the tribe's shaman the player was informed that it may be possible for the shaman to remove the connection to her Warlock patron. He went on to explain that, in his experience, these patrons were fiendish and prayed on the weak, catching them in their most vulnerable states and taking advantage of that. He talked with her a bit and, after a bit, softened his stance saying it was her choice as to what would happen with the connection to her patron. He softened his stance because the player explained that there was no pact made, simply a request by her patron to be it's eyes and ears, even referring to her as his avatar, in this realm in return for the powers she obtained.
Question:
As a player what would you do with this information?
As a DM how would you handle the situation if the player chose to have the connection to the patron severed?
*as always feel free to ask questions if you want more information*
Maybe she becomes a wizard of that level, losing the eldritch powers, but also losing the restraints she had in being able to cast spells (2/short or long rest), but that her spells are now varied with power (levels of spell slot instead of the 2 always maxed). Or, she could become just a regular non-magic person, and the player could opt to retire her, so to speak, and potentially create a new one.
As a player, it would really depend on how attached I was to the PC, and how invested I was in the character's bg/story.
Cool conundrum, though.
As a Player: This would really depend on my Character concept, backstory, and how my Character feels about the pact and the relationship with their Patron. However, I would absolutely file the knowledge away, keeping in mind that there may be an "out" of the pact/relationship. There's a escape clause in this contract.
As a DM: I view pact magic abilities as being "gifted" to the Warlock - meaning those abilities become part of them. This is contrast to the Cleric who is a conduit of Divine abilities which flow from their faith, or their God ( depending on how "old school" you tend to view Clerics ), so breaking that relationship and/or losing that faith would cause them to no longer be able to wield divine magic.
So, if I had a Player sever the connection to their Patron, they would retain their levels in Warlock, but they would obviously not be able to gain any further levels. I would immediately require the Player to multi-class into some other class.
From a world/campaign perspective, I would need to examine what the Patron reaction would be. It's possible that there now exists a state of enmity between the former-Warlock and their former Patron, which could lead to some interesting problems/opportunities/adventures for the Party, if the Patron decided to seek revenge against the former Warlock and her allies.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
This is where it gets tricky... The character has no background, she was an orphan and all reference to her history has been lost. She ended up connecting with a Great Old One patron while in a moment of weakness looking for answers. The patron gave her power and offered to help her find answers, in return she be his eyes and ears in this realm. Weeks later the patron manifested his power to take a physical form, he shaped water into his image, and explained to her, and her party, that he could not interfere with this realm in any way. He went on to tell them all that they had power that could shape the world and history, beyond merely a kingdom or a continent, something that could change an era.
So now she's stuck, as I said in the first post. Keep with the patron and potentially get answers, separate from the patron and search on her own, or something else.
I like Vedexent's approach, too - no more Warlock levels.
And I apologize for not necessarily being more clear. As a player, it would potentially depend on how invested I was in this character.
Since you're the DM, do you have an idea for the PCs background?
Thank you :) It all depends on how you envision Warlock power working. If you view it as the power being sourced from the Patron, the conversion over to Wizard makes more sense.
And - yes - this is how I've handled amnesiac Character backgrounds as well. If the Player hasn't created a history, and the Character doesn't know about their past, I'll damn well make up a backstory for them. *rubs hands together gleefully while cackling maniacally*
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
As is the case with you and me, I've settled on very similar ideas for how it will play out. I'm hoping for other ideas that could be interesting as well, such as Cardinal_Fang's idea.
Yea, she's going to be the daughter of one of the apparent, not necessarily accurate, bad guys. He didn't want her to be associated with the dishonor that he put on the family name. His powers, and influence, allowed him to have all records of their connection to be removed. I'm going to have the effect be removed the first time they meet, she'll have memories of him, records that were blank will fill out, people who should remember will, etc. So, whether she keeps the patron or not, she'll get her answers.