Hello all, a new poster here in need of help battling the party and the perilous writer's block!
My question is rather simple and complicated at the same time and any help would be very much appreciated!
I am dealing with the all to common problem of a group doing the complete opposite of what was expected of them and subsequently requiring a changing (upscaling) of the encounter.
The group in question is a 6 person party of 7th level characters with high fantasy rolls in the following assortment:
A large Orcish Fighter (custom ancient red orc thing)
Elven Warlock with a fire elemental patron and a blade pact
River Gnome Ranger and her trusty giant frog Gorf
Drow Druid of the Moon
Human Illusion Wizard
Dragonborn Paladin of Redemption
The reason for the cry of help is that the above party decided to flee from the "lair" described bellow after taking some minor ranged damage and squabbling among themselves and subsequently travel for 2 days to return to town and assemble a "fighting force" over another day and then return once again. This means that the Hag and her minions have had 5 days to prepare defenses, additional troops and/or traps for the returning "Heroes". I fully intend for the hag to have just left after fortifying the camp with all her treasure in toe, the monsters and fortifications left as a kind of trap to deal with the meddling party as she continues on her merry way with the coven's plans.
I am unfortunately coming up blank with how to fortify this base and proportionally upscale it for the now refreshed heroes and their entourage and any help in this matter would be very much appreciated!
Themes and Introduced Monster Templates:
Monsters with corrupted seeds implanted in their hearts to create plant like zombies upon death (viva le Radiant and Fire damage)
Monsters return 6 rounds later with full hp and an attack version of the spell "Thorn Whip" if not killed with Fire or Radiant Damage or having their corpse burned or heart removed before resurrection.
Annis Hag style monster retinue that serve her due to her greater strength and "goodz mystic powaz"
Limited control over corrupted plantlife (due to coven with an Blighted Spore Druid turned Night Hag (Long story)
The Following are monsters who were originally planned for the encounter/s:
Outside:
Two ogres with scaling to adjust for group level and size
Roughly 8 orcs with an accompanying 3 goblins (5 ranged and 3 melee)(basic statblocks)
A large hidden but sentient vampiric (Gulthias) style tree that sheds twig blights as damage is taken (only becomes an encounter if the group attempts to enter the cave or strays to close)
4 custom plant-esque cursed "nettle children" suspended in cages concealed in their previous human/halfling forms (2 of the six cages still hold non cursed children)(only becomes an encounter upon release)
Inside:
6 patrolling "plant" ghouls
4 goblins scurrying around moving things and tending to freshly implanted unconscious minions
2 Ogre's (scaled as before) one transformed into its plant zombie form already, both guarding a large wooden door into the back of the cave
"Aunt Tiki" (upscaled Annis Hag with a little extra casting, has a large cauldron in-front of her filled with noxious liquid that can spilled as a 20ft cone attack.
5 wisps disguised and magic floating lights that attack on order.
Overview of the "story" situation: My party in question has been playing through a large homebrew campaign of mine which at their current stage has them dealing with a recently revealed Hag problem within the borders of the Vallahand region of this world. Whilst pursuing one of the suspected hags who was in the process of abducting a previously cursed child the party stumbled upon a cabin on the edge of the northern wood that contained a innocent couple and the husband's "innocent" old mother.
Due to the actions of one of our party members the old woman was revealed to be an Annis Hag (with some up-scaling for effect) who proceeded to almost kill the party member in question before taking a sound beating and running away within a heavy smoke cloud (of her own creation, because all bad guys need a smoke-bomb style grand escape).
Upon her escape the party recollected themselves and proceeded after her into the wooded area, encountering a menagerie of goblonoid and orcish bandit-esque minions under her control. After dealing with these enemies (and the near death of another of the group due to...questionable actions) the group found themselves at the outer perimeter of "Aunt Tiki's" lair which took the form of a large cavernous entrance underground surrounded by thick log walls manned by 6 patrolling orcs.
With some very limited scouting the group found that a river ran along the eastern side of the compound and that the walls were not built to protect from that angle (due to water gathering, fast current, possible stealth entrance etc.etc.). After an argument broke out between two of the party members (over using some very expensive grog to burn the wall) the group was revealed to the patrolling orcs and they took some subsequent shots which to my shock caused half the party to decide to flee with the other half begrudgingly following.
To my further surprise the group decided to make the two day journey back to town to inform their guard captain contact of the camp and request assistance (from a town of peasant and maybe 14 guards that has been under sporadic attack from enemies). After some very well rolled persuasion checks and clever word-smithing on the parties part they have managed to convince a peasant militia of 30 plus 5 guards to accompany them back to the camp and aid in it's "assault" possibly including hastily crafted "siege" weaponry.
Hopefully the above is enough information for some help to be applicable, feel free to ask for further details if needed/wanted! Any help that can be provided would be very much appreciated and welcomed! Thankyou in advance -Michael
I have been there my friend. I overplayed this Undead River Pirate's reputation too much (Bandit Captain) and my party's Warlock inspired the entire armed garrison to join the fight. With that said, I added more enemies to the encounter.
The ancient rule curse of DMing is that NOTHING will ever go as planned. But fortunately you've got some time to readjust.
The dungeon idea sounds really fun. However if Aunt Tiki decides to leave, who does she leave in charge? What would this minion do differently in preparing? Does she leave a goblin in charge? Goblins rely on ambush and group tactics. Perhaps she could even have some of her minions hunt down the party while they're recruiting help to buy herself some time. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Traps are pretty good too. Maybe some exploding chests, fire traps, and poison gasses. You could even have her track down some additional minions and pets to add to her collection and dungeon. After all, maybe there's an assassin guild that could be hired to take out the party. It's all up to you, man. These could help with the problems.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
At every session, I say, "Everyone's here, except Waluigi."
Thanks for the response Osnil, I had contemplated much of what you suggested post writing the question and you have echoed my thoughts for the most part!
I was considering whether or not it would be easy though cheesy to just incorporate more enemies into the fight and make it a real scrap for victory, the dilemma I have with that apart from the relative mundane nature of it is that I am trying to consider how many more enemies she would be able to recruit in the 5 days, though on such a note I was considering maybe incorporating some "grown" monsters of the plant variety, maybe something granted to her by her sisters in the coven ?
The trap angle is interesting and admittedly I have been woefully negligent in utilizing such tools previously (just basic alarm tripwires really) though I wonder if I should continue to play off the plant aspect and make them grown or stick to more "traditional" variation due to the Annis Hag's nature, she does conduct the ritual for the implantation of the seed and have some minor control over the corrupted plant life and fey in the area, but they are more tools given to her for her part in the covens over arching plans.
Do you feel it would be reasonable for me to essentially take the vast majority of the "treasure" from the encounter as well ? she had been kidnapping a multitude of passing travelers, merchants and/or nobles in the area due to a region wide festival that is about to/has begun, I suggest this not entirely as a punishment for the group 'wussing out" but also logically i question whether she would leave all that hoarded wealth behind when she flees.
I do like the idea of her leaving some kind of "general" in charge in her absence, someone to command and present a powerful opposition but is equally disposable for her, Id rather have it stand apart from the multitude of orcs, goblins and other monstrous humanoids the party has encountered so that whilst it is only a replacement it still illicit a sense of, "Oh shit maybe we ****ed up leaving" (GODDAMIT I WILL MAKE THEM ACT LIKE HEROES SOMETIMES!!!)
I was contemplating aswell somethign along the lines of shoring up the forest and camp itself with walls of corrupted brambles etc. but worry that it will present such an obstacle for them to overcome that they may very well just bail again as by this point the group is pretty much convinced that any hostages that may have been there are already dead or as the case may be "transformed".
As previously stated your response was much appreciated and any further assistance would be greatly appreciated. -Michael
So most of that is up to you. Consequences in this game are everything. It's not a punishment necessarily, but one of those incidents where choices really do matter. It seems like your party is a bit skittish (or smart). They shouldn't be punished for thinking things through. If she's got control over plant life and fey, then find some of them to use. The brambled wall might be interesting - you could plant more bushes and trees around the cabin, have the goblins and orcs outside ambush the party, and the brambled wall surrounds the area, slowly moving in at the end of every round which limits the space for the players to move. I mean it's a legitimate strategy for the monsters.
Another creature you could add to the dungeon is Redcaps. If any minion would be allied with a Hag, it would be Redcaps. Now before I go further, I will make you aware that Redcaps are probably one of my favorite monsters in the game, so I'm bias. Redcaps are unnaturally violent and cruel like hags, and so the pair would be a match made in the Nine Hells (I'd say heaven, but its not likely they'll be going there). If there's a band of Redcaps nearby, the Hag could recruit them. You could also recruit the local bandit crew (paying them with some of the treasure, thereby lowering the amount in the dungeon).
As for traps, you could always do the stereotypical trap. Maybe remove the doorway to the cabin and replace it with a Mimic or make the Mimic something else. Some mimics are intelligent and might work for the Hag in exchange for that juicy, succulent flesh.
I don't know how powerful she is but she could also get a Golem maybe (it could be her General). Annis Hags like skinning people, so it could be a Flesh Golem. Maybe adding a few animated objects - Rug of Smothering, Animated Armor, even a helmed horror. (Magic makes things so much more fun). You could even tie some of these objects to the traps - like maybe the animated objects have a spell that activates when they attack (ie darkness, Fog Cloud, entangle). Perhaps that could work.
You could also, play up the Annis nature by having local children using the iron tokens she gives them by using them to spy on the party, and maybe causing a bit more chaos in the town. Annis Hags like to twist children to evil, and this would be the perfect opportunity to do so.
Should you play up the Annis Hag nature or the corrupted forest theme? Yes. You could take aspects of both and incorporate them. You could even use a corrupted Dryad or two to charm the party into an early ambush. Basically the sky's the limit, unless the party can fly. I'm happy to provide further assistance as well. Ironically, I know this is at your pain, but it almost sounds like this dungeon is a lot cooler now that its actually preparing for siege.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
At every session, I say, "Everyone's here, except Waluigi."
I keep forgetting about those damn Redcaps (Now written on my arm to avoid a repeat as such).
I love the idea of the Flesh Golem general and I am already thinking of some interesting ways to tweak its template, I had not thought about making her the more flesh focused of the trio, which works well with my design of the coven as another member is a Green Hag that the party had previously encountered as the kind alchemist "Talia" (they now despise her for some pretty dark curses she had placed on children in the village) and she primarily deals with the mind bending and manipulation of innocents whilst their other sister/leader Atihi is a druid turned night hag who is basically corrupting everything.
The encroaching bramble wall is an amazing mechanic which I feel in love with upon reading as I love mechanic heavy encounters (played to many target dummy encounters personally) as is the Mimic as a door that is hungry for flesh, yet another way to make my players trust nothing and no-one (I'm not aiming for PTSD I swear)
I still feel that I will remove the vast majority of the treasure as I cannot imagine her leaving it with her disposable "toys", though I will leave some behind to placate the shiny tendencies of the goblins and orcs and instill in the group a sense that she may remain in the lair and within subsequent reach.
You have definitely helped me overcome my writer's block to a very large degree and I now believe it was disappointment at having my plans ruined (perils of being overly proud of an encounter on paper)
Your help has been incredibly helpful and appreciated and I thank you sincerely and would likewise would be happy to continue to discuss entirely not evil and/or deceptive ways to mess with would be heroes! -Michael
It is my pleasure to help you overcome the writer's block. Best of luck to you and your party in your future endeavors. Never let disappointment change your campaign; sometimes the most painful thing that happened is better than what you imagined. Now you could even have a hook where they try to track Aunt Tiki to her new dungeon which isn't quite as well-prepared and organized yet (depending on how fast she moves)!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
At every session, I say, "Everyone's here, except Waluigi."
Yes, I think the hag should leave with all treasure. The initial encounter has warned her and I'm sure her contacts will be informing her of the militia heading out. What follows is me attempting to think like a hag:
"So, they're sending the bulk of the town's force against me? Fine. Let them die"
With about a week to prepare, the hag will be not only removing her treasure, but also significantly beefing up the cave's defenses. The entire complex is being turned into a big trap designed to kill whomever enters; think moth to a flame. Pressure plates, reverse gravity traps, delayed fireballs (a fireball going off in a narrow cave can about triple it's radius as the energy is funneled into a smaller space), everything. Would even have a kitchen sink in an inner room, that if touched, sets off a deadly trap.
Annis Hag's whole game is to cause fear, misery, corruption and torment - along with hunting children. The militia coming out to play just falls right into her hands. If most of the militia dies, or gets injured, her life just got a whole lot easier. Bonus: if the hag can raise the forces, the town is raided a full day after the militia force has started towards the cave. Use the hag's disguise self ability and iron token (probably has at least a handful of kids already under her thrall.... kids make excellent spies) to sow discontent. She could even go along with the militia as "a cook" and slowly poison their meals, whisper hate and envy into a few ears, etc.
With their tendency to adopt groups of ogres, trolls and others.... this is exactly the kind of encounter that sows fear across the region.
edit: thinking harassing raids on the militia group during their trek to the cave. Nothing designed to create a full encounter, just a few ogres, or trolls, taking out a nightly patrol, causing noise to draw out some of the illtrained militia. Some get killed, some get drawn far enough away from camp and get lost/succumb to the wild. If foggy, or a heavy rain, can continue the harassing raids during daytime. Should be able to bleed off about half of the militia before they ever get to the cave. At what point do their losses cause a retreat back home?
Personally, I think the Hag leaving with all the treasure is consequence enough.
I probably wouldn't increase the difficulty or deadliness of the traps/forces too much. I mean, they're already going to waste all kinds of time, energy, and resources getting through an empty "dungeon".
I mean, sure, I'm super lazy, but if you focus on killing the militia members, then I can't imagine the town would be very pleased with convincing them to raid this empty dungeon - yet another consequence.
Ultimately, I agree with a lot of what Shalrath mentioned - getting rid of the towns defensive force, sowing discontent, etc.
My thought would be could the hag exploit this? If a lot of the town's people are up attacking her strong hold, could she go into town and capture all the children for her villainous hunger? The party clears the lair coming back empty handed then finds the town's children are gone! Prompting them to chase her down in her second lair, this time with little time to spare before she starts eating kids.
I'm going to suggest something a little different:
Don't change anything.
The trick here is you can play two cards at the same time, first being a hollow victory, and the second being the "boy who cried wolf" type response by the militia. The Hag is going to be cunning, you've shown as much by stating that the Hag is going to gather up the treasure and vanish off into the night. What better way to make it more difficult for the heroes than to make them look like fools? You now have a town militia asking themselves, and the party, why they used so much power for such a simple little fight. It'll be a hollow victory because they'll be able to steam roll through the fight when they were expecting a difficult encounter. They'll also feel cheated because there'll be no reward worth mentioning, only the stuff the Hag didn't feel was valuable, and the party will probably feel the same way.
Keep the encounter as you have it, change very little but put some tweaks on it to make it feel ominous. The Hag casting illusion spells to make it appear she's still present even after she's been gone for days. Magic Mouth, some illusions triggered by the more intelligent creatures, a few traps that look and feel like Hag spells. Let the party, and militia, go crazy taking on all these denizens that the Hag has gathered. Work the fight so that it appears that they have to defeat all these creatures just to get to a location, imply that the Hag is hiding somewhere. When the dust settles, and the monsters are dead or routed, the party and militia will find no evidence of a hidden Hag. Instead the party will realize that they've been had by the Hag.
Then you have the response by the militia, and make it one of confusion. They risked their lives to help the party after being told of this hag. They put their lives on the line and came out victorious, but the danger was no where near as bad as the party made it out to be. Now the militia is questioning the truthfulness of the party, they question how powerful these people really are. They're going to be upset that the danger is still out there, and they'll be afraid of repercussion by the Hag herself. The seeds of distrust have been planted by the Hag simply by not being there. It creates a rather unique dilemma for the players, especially if they're heavy into RP and/or you use world view as a recognizable cog in your game. Now they have to prove to the town that the threat is something they can handle, and that they are, indeed, capable of saving the town from it.
I did not read all other posts, sorry if this is irrelevant but...
I would have the hag leave with the treasure, when the militia arrives at the hag's lair, they are ambushed by a similar militia recognizably from the neighboring village of (Shelbyville or w/e). Gasp! the Hag has manipulated everyone and incited a conflict that could cost both villages dearly... if only we had vanquished our foe when we had the chance!
then you can let the players decide... fight the war, stop the war, hunt down the hag... or go back to town and ask the captain what to do... lol
Thank you all for the response, they for the most part have echoed my own thoughts since creating this thread and conversing with osnil!
An update seeing as the group ran part of the session (we did not get to finish due to time constraints of 2 players)!
The group and their militia arrive on the outskirts of the now fortified camp having traveled through a now considerably dark, cold and gloomy wood. There are now ominous writhing and weaving bramble "tentacles" ensnaring the camp and essentially covering the floor in a kind of nauseating barb wire. They decided to camp across the river and spend yet another day "preparing" by putting the militia (remember they are just peasants with little to know combat experience) to work creating a high palisade out of surrounding lumber (with some assistance from a druid revolted by the corruption of nature and a very big orc).
After they finished preparing they decided to cast fly and invisibility on the ranger and have her do some scouting of the camp (only 6 days late by this point but who is counting) where upon she found the previously spotted minion retinue slaughtered with their remains scattered around a large tree of ashen bark with a large pool of blood filled mood surrounding it's trunk, the ground littered with tall red mushroom looking objects with odd iron boot-esque masses at each's base(I think you know where this is going), the ranger then found the children suspended in cages curled up in the fetal position and quietly trembling, one of them deathly still.
Relaying this to the group they still believed camping out before the initial assault of the "enemies" on their now constructed defenses would be the best option the group decided to huddle everyone together and set a diligent watch as they took turns resting (my group by now seems to be overly cautious). Not one to overlook the opportunity I decided to have the Redcaps attack in the early morning darkness by bombarding the defenses with sickly green glowing melon sized boulders pitched like baseballs.
A bloody battle ensued with the warlock having fly cast on him by the wizard before beginning to throw fireballs from his mind and spooky ashen arrows from his pact weapon as the orc went to town trying to make mittens out of the attacking redcaps and the druid got to enjoy watching a pack of summoned 7 summoned wolves be massacred by 2 redcaps and their exceptional roles with those lovely sickles.
The group managed to only lose 8 militia and a town guard to the assault on their then crumbling defenses before sending the remaining "soldiers" back to town post battle. After another battle erupting after the tree decided to go "whomping willow" (my groups now favorite statement to accompany their ptsd about big trees) the group managed to retrieve the children and send them along with the retreating militia and guard who now have 4 living "children" and 1 "corpse" in tow between them all.
The next session will pertain to the cave portion or actual "lair" of the hag and which is now empty of all treasure apart from one small chest guarded by a frenzied amalgamation of flesh golem, dryad (it's tree now dead and burning, may have seen it earlier with its pretty ash bark) and evil necrotic plant magic with a slew of goblin corpses strewn around its feet from attempting to retrieve said treasure.
All in all the session went quiet well apart from some minor disagreements between party members and all of the above advice was beyond useful and I thank each of you for it!
May all your sessions go well and thank you once again -Michael
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hello all, a new poster here in need of help battling the party and the perilous writer's block!
My question is rather simple and complicated at the same time and any help would be very much appreciated!
I am dealing with the all to common problem of a group doing the complete opposite of what was expected of them and subsequently requiring a changing (upscaling) of the encounter.
The group in question is a 6 person party of 7th level characters with high fantasy rolls in the following assortment:
The reason for the cry of help is that the above party decided to flee from the "lair" described bellow after taking some minor ranged damage and squabbling among themselves and subsequently travel for 2 days to return to town and assemble a "fighting force" over another day and then return once again. This means that the Hag and her minions have had 5 days to prepare defenses, additional troops and/or traps for the returning "Heroes". I fully intend for the hag to have just left after fortifying the camp with all her treasure in toe, the monsters and fortifications left as a kind of trap to deal with the meddling party as she continues on her merry way with the coven's plans.
I am unfortunately coming up blank with how to fortify this base and proportionally upscale it for the now refreshed heroes and their entourage and any help in this matter would be very much appreciated!
Themes and Introduced Monster Templates:
The Following are monsters who were originally planned for the encounter/s:
Outside:
Inside:
Overview of the "story" situation:
My party in question has been playing through a large homebrew campaign of mine which at their current stage has them dealing with a recently revealed Hag problem within the borders of the Vallahand region of this world. Whilst pursuing one of the suspected hags who was in the process of abducting a previously cursed child the party stumbled upon a cabin on the edge of the northern wood that contained a innocent couple and the husband's "innocent" old mother.
Due to the actions of one of our party members the old woman was revealed to be an Annis Hag (with some up-scaling for effect) who proceeded to almost kill the party member in question before taking a sound beating and running away within a heavy smoke cloud (of her own creation, because all bad guys need a smoke-bomb style grand escape).
Upon her escape the party recollected themselves and proceeded after her into the wooded area, encountering a menagerie of goblonoid and orcish bandit-esque minions under her control. After dealing with these enemies (and the near death of another of the group due to...questionable actions) the group found themselves at the outer perimeter of "Aunt Tiki's" lair which took the form of a large cavernous entrance underground surrounded by thick log walls manned by 6 patrolling orcs.
With some very limited scouting the group found that a river ran along the eastern side of the compound and that the walls were not built to protect from that angle (due to water gathering, fast current, possible stealth entrance etc.etc.). After an argument broke out between two of the party members (over using some very expensive grog to burn the wall) the group was revealed to the patrolling orcs and they took some subsequent shots which to my shock caused half the party to decide to flee with the other half begrudgingly following.
To my further surprise the group decided to make the two day journey back to town to inform their guard captain contact of the camp and request assistance (from a town of peasant and maybe 14 guards that has been under sporadic attack from enemies). After some very well rolled persuasion checks and clever word-smithing on the parties part they have managed to convince a peasant militia of 30 plus 5 guards to accompany them back to the camp and aid in it's "assault" possibly including hastily crafted "siege" weaponry.
Hopefully the above is enough information for some help to be applicable, feel free to ask for further details if needed/wanted!
Any help that can be provided would be very much appreciated and welcomed!
Thankyou in advance
-Michael
I have been there my friend. I overplayed this Undead River Pirate's reputation too much (Bandit Captain) and my party's Warlock inspired the entire armed garrison to join the fight. With that said, I added more enemies to the encounter.
The ancient
rulecurse of DMing is that NOTHING will ever go as planned. But fortunately you've got some time to readjust.The dungeon idea sounds really fun. However if Aunt Tiki decides to leave, who does she leave in charge? What would this minion do differently in preparing? Does she leave a goblin in charge? Goblins rely on ambush and group tactics. Perhaps she could even have some of her minions hunt down the party while they're recruiting help to buy herself some time. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Traps are pretty good too. Maybe some exploding chests, fire traps, and poison gasses. You could even have her track down some additional minions and pets to add to her collection and dungeon. After all, maybe there's an assassin guild that could be hired to take out the party. It's all up to you, man. These could help with the problems.
At every session, I say, "Everyone's here, except Waluigi."
Thanks for the response Osnil, I had contemplated much of what you suggested post writing the question and you have echoed my thoughts for the most part!
I was considering whether or not it would be easy though cheesy to just incorporate more enemies into the fight and make it a real scrap for victory, the dilemma I have with that apart from the relative mundane nature of it is that I am trying to consider how many more enemies she would be able to recruit in the 5 days, though on such a note I was considering maybe incorporating some "grown" monsters of the plant variety, maybe something granted to her by her sisters in the coven ?
The trap angle is interesting and admittedly I have been woefully negligent in utilizing such tools previously (just basic alarm tripwires really) though I wonder if I should continue to play off the plant aspect and make them grown or stick to more "traditional" variation due to the Annis Hag's nature, she does conduct the ritual for the implantation of the seed and have some minor control over the corrupted plant life and fey in the area, but they are more tools given to her for her part in the covens over arching plans.
Do you feel it would be reasonable for me to essentially take the vast majority of the "treasure" from the encounter as well ? she had been kidnapping a multitude of passing travelers, merchants and/or nobles in the area due to a region wide festival that is about to/has begun, I suggest this not entirely as a punishment for the group 'wussing out" but also logically i question whether she would leave all that hoarded wealth behind when she flees.
I do like the idea of her leaving some kind of "general" in charge in her absence, someone to command and present a powerful opposition but is equally disposable for her, Id rather have it stand apart from the multitude of orcs, goblins and other monstrous humanoids the party has encountered so that whilst it is only a replacement it still illicit a sense of, "Oh shit maybe we ****ed up leaving" (GODDAMIT I WILL MAKE THEM ACT LIKE HEROES SOMETIMES!!!)
I was contemplating aswell somethign along the lines of shoring up the forest and camp itself with walls of corrupted brambles etc. but worry that it will present such an obstacle for them to overcome that they may very well just bail again as by this point the group is pretty much convinced that any hostages that may have been there are already dead or as the case may be "transformed".
As previously stated your response was much appreciated and any further assistance would be greatly appreciated.
-Michael
So most of that is up to you. Consequences in this game are everything. It's not a punishment necessarily, but one of those incidents where choices really do matter. It seems like your party is a bit skittish (or smart). They shouldn't be punished for thinking things through. If she's got control over plant life and fey, then find some of them to use. The brambled wall might be interesting - you could plant more bushes and trees around the cabin, have the goblins and orcs outside ambush the party, and the brambled wall surrounds the area, slowly moving in at the end of every round which limits the space for the players to move. I mean it's a legitimate strategy for the monsters.
Another creature you could add to the dungeon is Redcaps. If any minion would be allied with a Hag, it would be Redcaps. Now before I go further, I will make you aware that Redcaps are probably one of my favorite monsters in the game, so I'm bias. Redcaps are unnaturally violent and cruel like hags, and so the pair would be a match made in the Nine Hells (I'd say heaven, but its not likely they'll be going there). If there's a band of Redcaps nearby, the Hag could recruit them. You could also recruit the local bandit crew (paying them with some of the treasure, thereby lowering the amount in the dungeon).
As for traps, you could always do the stereotypical trap. Maybe remove the doorway to the cabin and replace it with a Mimic or make the Mimic something else. Some mimics are intelligent and might work for the Hag in exchange for that juicy, succulent flesh.
I don't know how powerful she is but she could also get a Golem maybe (it could be her General). Annis Hags like skinning people, so it could be a Flesh Golem. Maybe adding a few animated objects - Rug of Smothering, Animated Armor, even a helmed horror. (Magic makes things so much more fun). You could even tie some of these objects to the traps - like maybe the animated objects have a spell that activates when they attack (ie darkness, Fog Cloud, entangle). Perhaps that could work.
You could also, play up the Annis nature by having local children using the iron tokens she gives them by using them to spy on the party, and maybe causing a bit more chaos in the town. Annis Hags like to twist children to evil, and this would be the perfect opportunity to do so.
Should you play up the Annis Hag nature or the corrupted forest theme? Yes. You could take aspects of both and incorporate them. You could even use a corrupted Dryad or two to charm the party into an early ambush. Basically the sky's the limit, unless the party can fly. I'm happy to provide further assistance as well. Ironically, I know this is at your pain, but it almost sounds like this dungeon is a lot cooler now that its actually preparing for siege.
At every session, I say, "Everyone's here, except Waluigi."
I keep forgetting about those damn Redcaps (Now written on my arm to avoid a repeat as such).
I love the idea of the Flesh Golem general and I am already thinking of some interesting ways to tweak its template, I had not thought about making her the more flesh focused of the trio, which works well with my design of the coven as another member is a Green Hag that the party had previously encountered as the kind alchemist "Talia" (they now despise her for some pretty dark curses she had placed on children in the village) and she primarily deals with the mind bending and manipulation of innocents whilst their other sister/leader Atihi is a druid turned night hag who is basically corrupting everything.
The encroaching bramble wall is an amazing mechanic which I feel in love with upon reading as I love mechanic heavy encounters (played to many target dummy encounters personally)
as is the Mimic as a door that is hungry for flesh, yet another way to make my players trust nothing and no-one (I'm not aiming for PTSD I swear)
I still feel that I will remove the vast majority of the treasure as I cannot imagine her leaving it with her disposable "toys", though I will leave some behind to placate the shiny tendencies of the goblins and orcs and instill in the group a sense that she may remain in the lair and within subsequent reach.
You have definitely helped me overcome my writer's block to a very large degree and I now believe it was disappointment at having my plans ruined (perils of being overly proud of an encounter on paper)
Your help has been incredibly helpful and appreciated and I thank you sincerely and would likewise would be happy to continue to discuss entirely not evil and/or deceptive ways to mess with would be heroes!
-Michael
It is my pleasure to help you overcome the writer's block. Best of luck to you and your party in your future endeavors. Never let disappointment change your campaign; sometimes the most painful thing that happened is better than what you imagined. Now you could even have a hook where they try to track Aunt Tiki to her new dungeon which isn't quite as well-prepared and organized yet (depending on how fast she moves)!
At every session, I say, "Everyone's here, except Waluigi."
Yes, I think the hag should leave with all treasure. The initial encounter has warned her and I'm sure her contacts will be informing her of the militia heading out. What follows is me attempting to think like a hag:
"So, they're sending the bulk of the town's force against me? Fine. Let them die"
With about a week to prepare, the hag will be not only removing her treasure, but also significantly beefing up the cave's defenses. The entire complex is being turned into a big trap designed to kill whomever enters; think moth to a flame. Pressure plates, reverse gravity traps, delayed fireballs (a fireball going off in a narrow cave can about triple it's radius as the energy is funneled into a smaller space), everything. Would even have a kitchen sink in an inner room, that if touched, sets off a deadly trap.
Annis Hag's whole game is to cause fear, misery, corruption and torment - along with hunting children. The militia coming out to play just falls right into her hands. If most of the militia dies, or gets injured, her life just got a whole lot easier. Bonus: if the hag can raise the forces, the town is raided a full day after the militia force has started towards the cave. Use the hag's disguise self ability and iron token (probably has at least a handful of kids already under her thrall.... kids make excellent spies) to sow discontent. She could even go along with the militia as "a cook" and slowly poison their meals, whisper hate and envy into a few ears, etc.
With their tendency to adopt groups of ogres, trolls and others.... this is exactly the kind of encounter that sows fear across the region.
edit: thinking harassing raids on the militia group during their trek to the cave. Nothing designed to create a full encounter, just a few ogres, or trolls, taking out a nightly patrol, causing noise to draw out some of the illtrained militia. Some get killed, some get drawn far enough away from camp and get lost/succumb to the wild. If foggy, or a heavy rain, can continue the harassing raids during daytime. Should be able to bleed off about half of the militia before they ever get to the cave. At what point do their losses cause a retreat back home?
Personally, I think the Hag leaving with all the treasure is consequence enough.
I probably wouldn't increase the difficulty or deadliness of the traps/forces too much. I mean, they're already going to waste all kinds of time, energy, and resources getting through an empty "dungeon".
I mean, sure, I'm super lazy, but if you focus on killing the militia members, then I can't imagine the town would be very pleased with convincing them to raid this empty dungeon - yet another consequence.
Ultimately, I agree with a lot of what Shalrath mentioned - getting rid of the towns defensive force, sowing discontent, etc.
My thought would be could the hag exploit this? If a lot of the town's people are up attacking her strong hold, could she go into town and capture all the children for her villainous hunger? The party clears the lair coming back empty handed then finds the town's children are gone! Prompting them to chase her down in her second lair, this time with little time to spare before she starts eating kids.
I'm going to suggest something a little different:
Don't change anything.
The trick here is you can play two cards at the same time, first being a hollow victory, and the second being the "boy who cried wolf" type response by the militia. The Hag is going to be cunning, you've shown as much by stating that the Hag is going to gather up the treasure and vanish off into the night. What better way to make it more difficult for the heroes than to make them look like fools? You now have a town militia asking themselves, and the party, why they used so much power for such a simple little fight. It'll be a hollow victory because they'll be able to steam roll through the fight when they were expecting a difficult encounter. They'll also feel cheated because there'll be no reward worth mentioning, only the stuff the Hag didn't feel was valuable, and the party will probably feel the same way.
Keep the encounter as you have it, change very little but put some tweaks on it to make it feel ominous. The Hag casting illusion spells to make it appear she's still present even after she's been gone for days. Magic Mouth, some illusions triggered by the more intelligent creatures, a few traps that look and feel like Hag spells. Let the party, and militia, go crazy taking on all these denizens that the Hag has gathered. Work the fight so that it appears that they have to defeat all these creatures just to get to a location, imply that the Hag is hiding somewhere. When the dust settles, and the monsters are dead or routed, the party and militia will find no evidence of a hidden Hag. Instead the party will realize that they've been had by the Hag.
Then you have the response by the militia, and make it one of confusion. They risked their lives to help the party after being told of this hag. They put their lives on the line and came out victorious, but the danger was no where near as bad as the party made it out to be. Now the militia is questioning the truthfulness of the party, they question how powerful these people really are. They're going to be upset that the danger is still out there, and they'll be afraid of repercussion by the Hag herself. The seeds of distrust have been planted by the Hag simply by not being there. It creates a rather unique dilemma for the players, especially if they're heavy into RP and/or you use world view as a recognizable cog in your game. Now they have to prove to the town that the threat is something they can handle, and that they are, indeed, capable of saving the town from it.
I did not read all other posts, sorry if this is irrelevant but...
I would have the hag leave with the treasure, when the militia arrives at the hag's lair, they are ambushed by a similar militia recognizably from the neighboring village of (Shelbyville or w/e). Gasp! the Hag has manipulated everyone and incited a conflict that could cost both villages dearly... if only we had vanquished our foe when we had the chance!
then you can let the players decide... fight the war, stop the war, hunt down the hag... or go back to town and ask the captain what to do... lol
I do sympathize, good luck!
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Thank you all for the response, they for the most part have echoed my own thoughts since creating this thread and conversing with osnil!
An update seeing as the group ran part of the session (we did not get to finish due to time constraints of 2 players)!
The group and their militia arrive on the outskirts of the now fortified camp having traveled through a now considerably dark, cold and gloomy wood. There are now ominous writhing and weaving bramble "tentacles" ensnaring the camp and essentially covering the floor in a kind of nauseating barb wire. They decided to camp across the river and spend yet another day "preparing" by putting the militia (remember they are just peasants with little to know combat experience) to work creating a high palisade out of surrounding lumber (with some assistance from a druid revolted by the corruption of nature and a very big orc).
After they finished preparing they decided to cast fly and invisibility on the ranger and have her do some scouting of the camp (only 6 days late by this point but who is counting) where upon she found the previously spotted minion retinue slaughtered with their remains scattered around a large tree of ashen bark with a large pool of blood filled mood surrounding it's trunk, the ground littered with tall red mushroom looking objects with odd iron boot-esque masses at each's base(I think you know where this is going), the ranger then found the children suspended in cages curled up in the fetal position and quietly trembling, one of them deathly still.
Relaying this to the group they still believed camping out before the initial assault of the "enemies" on their now constructed defenses would be the best option the group decided to huddle everyone together and set a diligent watch as they took turns resting (my group by now seems to be overly cautious). Not one to overlook the opportunity I decided to have the Redcaps attack in the early morning darkness by bombarding the defenses with sickly green glowing melon sized boulders pitched like baseballs.
A bloody battle ensued with the warlock having fly cast on him by the wizard before beginning to throw fireballs from his mind and spooky ashen arrows from his pact weapon as the orc went to town trying to make mittens out of the attacking redcaps and the druid got to enjoy watching a pack of summoned 7 summoned wolves be massacred by 2 redcaps and their exceptional roles with those lovely sickles.
The group managed to only lose 8 militia and a town guard to the assault on their then crumbling defenses before sending the remaining "soldiers" back to town post battle. After another battle erupting after the tree decided to go "whomping willow" (my groups now favorite statement to accompany their ptsd about big trees) the group managed to retrieve the children and send them along with the retreating militia and guard who now have 4 living "children" and 1 "corpse" in tow between them all.
The next session will pertain to the cave portion or actual "lair" of the hag and which is now empty of all treasure apart from one small chest guarded by a frenzied amalgamation of flesh golem, dryad (it's tree now dead and burning, may have seen it earlier with its pretty ash bark) and evil necrotic plant magic with a slew of goblin corpses strewn around its feet from attempting to retrieve said treasure.
All in all the session went quiet well apart from some minor disagreements between party members and all of the above advice was beyond useful and I thank each of you for it!
May all your sessions go well and thank you once again
-Michael