I'm a new DM (this is my first campaign as the dm) and one of my players (his first campaign) wants to pick and choose class features. He's playing as a UA deep stalker ranger and wants to use a different spell list than the one with this subclass. This isnt the first dispute we've had over class features. As a deep stalker, in dim and dark places other creatures cant use their darkvision to 'see' him which he interpreted as invisible but I don't think that's how it works and am having trouble explaining it.
Any tips for dealing with PCs who try bend rules when convient is greatly appreciated!
I'm of the mindset that bending the rules is okay, but you have to okay that with the DM before things start. Like... if you want access to specific spells that normally aren't in your spell list it's important to ask ahead of time and make sure that's just part of the setting. And of course, there's always confusion about how specific features and traits function, but your player should accept that the DM's ruling is final.
Deep Stalker became Gloom Stalker in Xanathars guide ot Everything, they tidied the wording up to read: "While in darkness, you are invisible to any creature that relies on darkvision to see you in that darkness". So I think your player has the correct interpretation on that on, although the wording isnt great in the UA.
The spell list is slightly different as well, 3rd gain Disguise Self, 5th level gain Rope Trick, 9th level gain Fear (instead of Glyph of Warding), 13th level gain Greater Invisibility and 17th level gain Seeming.
Can you let us know what spell list he wants to use?
Ranger is not a great class in my opinion so a little tweaking could be done.
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Ok! That clears that up, I was wondering about gloom stalker. I'll probably ask him to switch over to that subclass so we don't have to worry about the UA version's wording. For Spells he wants to use the Horizon Walker added spell list because it has Misty Step, I don't see it becoming an issue except if other party members want to then pick and choose subclass features. My main concern would be that some players become 'more OP' than others.
Well it a minor change, the Gloomstalker is more iniflration based which fits with their sneaky aesthetic and Horizon walker is more movement based which fits in with theirs.
I think I'd be inclined ot say tot he player to stick with the gloomstalker list for now but tehn work in some minor ranger trials to switch spells over.
For instance, if the player only really wants the misty step spell, have them make a pilgramage to a druidic enclave (swamp or coast based). The Druids keep a small altar or shrine in a cave that is perpetually surrounded by mist or fog, if the ranger can take an offering through the fog to the altar/shrine he can switch out rope trick for misty step in his spell list. Because the route he has to take is in fog all dexterity, perception and investigation checks will be at disadvantage and he can't see further than 20ft ahead and he has to make the pilgramge alone.
Just so the rest of the party don't get bored while he does it, have them roll for monsters in the fog, whenever he fails a roll the monsters zero in on him and bburst from the ground (because they use tremorsense and/or blindsight) so he can face off against Giant Frogs or Leeches, Stirges is you feel nasty or if you prefer to go down a more Ranger option, have the area invested with aberrations such as Gibbering Mouthers so not only does he have to make it to the altar he also has to do so without alerting the monsters.
if he is successful then switch the spell over, if he fails..he fails.
I'm a new DM (this is my first campaign as the dm) and one of my players (his first campaign) wants to pick and choose class features. He's playing as a UA deep stalker ranger and wants to use a different spell list than the one with this subclass. This isnt the first dispute we've had over class features. As a deep stalker, in dim and dark places other creatures cant use their darkvision to 'see' him which he interpreted as invisible but I don't think that's how it works and am having trouble explaining it.
Any tips for dealing with PCs who try bend rules when convient is greatly appreciated!
I'm of the mindset that bending the rules is okay, but you have to okay that with the DM before things start. Like... if you want access to specific spells that normally aren't in your spell list it's important to ask ahead of time and make sure that's just part of the setting. And of course, there's always confusion about how specific features and traits function, but your player should accept that the DM's ruling is final.
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Deep Stalker became Gloom Stalker in Xanathars guide ot Everything, they tidied the wording up to read: "While in darkness, you are invisible to any creature that relies on darkvision to see you in that darkness". So I think your player has the correct interpretation on that on, although the wording isnt great in the UA.
The spell list is slightly different as well, 3rd gain Disguise Self, 5th level gain Rope Trick, 9th level gain Fear (instead of Glyph of Warding), 13th level gain Greater Invisibility and 17th level gain Seeming.
Can you let us know what spell list he wants to use?
Ranger is not a great class in my opinion so a little tweaking could be done.
Ok! That clears that up, I was wondering about gloom stalker. I'll probably ask him to switch over to that subclass so we don't have to worry about the UA version's wording. For Spells he wants to use the Horizon Walker added spell list because it has Misty Step, I don't see it becoming an issue except if other party members want to then pick and choose subclass features. My main concern would be that some players become 'more OP' than others.
Well it a minor change, the Gloomstalker is more iniflration based which fits with their sneaky aesthetic and Horizon walker is more movement based which fits in with theirs.
I think I'd be inclined ot say tot he player to stick with the gloomstalker list for now but tehn work in some minor ranger trials to switch spells over.
For instance, if the player only really wants the misty step spell, have them make a pilgramage to a druidic enclave (swamp or coast based). The Druids keep a small altar or shrine in a cave that is perpetually surrounded by mist or fog, if the ranger can take an offering through the fog to the altar/shrine he can switch out rope trick for misty step in his spell list. Because the route he has to take is in fog all dexterity, perception and investigation checks will be at disadvantage and he can't see further than 20ft ahead and he has to make the pilgramge alone.
Just so the rest of the party don't get bored while he does it, have them roll for monsters in the fog, whenever he fails a roll the monsters zero in on him and bburst from the ground (because they use tremorsense and/or blindsight) so he can face off against Giant Frogs or Leeches, Stirges is you feel nasty or if you prefer to go down a more Ranger option, have the area invested with aberrations such as Gibbering Mouthers so not only does he have to make it to the altar he also has to do so without alerting the monsters.
if he is successful then switch the spell over, if he fails..he fails.
Tailor make the monsters so their CR is a bit lower than his level (as he'll be soloing it), a useful little refernce is here: https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/DnD_MonstersByType_1.0.pdf