Your approach requires a lot of DM observation, and deep analysis, of Player Characters, as if they're literary Characters. Don't get me wrong - even though I'm a techie, I actually enjoyed literature classes in University, and I'm an analyst by profession and temperament, but I'm not sure even someone as obsessive as I am would want to take that on. This is why I like the "self-selected personal goals" model. It pushes selection of goals, and the development of concrete criteria to the Player. It takes most of the workload off the DM.
You're probably spot on about this going "too far down the rabbit hole" right now That is my nature :p Get waaay down in the weeds, figure out what's down there, then pull back to the "yard level" and operate there.
You're correct that not all Players will bite on this. This is meant to be encouragement, not enforcement. It's meant to "nudge" Players on the fence about Character development in that direction by providing an incentive, and it's meant to reward Players who engage the game on that level. But my table isn't meant to be an acting exercise, and the RP Player shouldn't totally outstrip the tactical Player. This is why secondary rewards can't ever overbalance the primary ones gained through the adventure. Players who want to just "show up, roll dice, and kill monsters" ( to quote Matt Colville ) can still do so. They may have to hustle a little bit more to be tactically astute and interesting, to chase those rewards - but I don't see that as an issue. It means that all Players get rewarded for engaging the game more fully in their chosen style of play.
You're right about the DM being responsible for framing interesting situations for the Player to be able to pursue some of the "personal growth goals" of the Character. As I said in a response to Jhfffan, the DM being the gatekeeper for the presentation of such scenes is possibly the best tool the DM has for doling making sure that Characters all have equal opportunity access to such Character development scenes.
There's a common mantra among many DMs these days: "RP is its own reward". While not completely untrue ( there are absolutely Players for whom the majority of their enjoyment is derived from their role playing opportunities ), I don't think DMs can fall back on that, and tell ourselves: "Oh, they're already covered, I don't need to reward them". Imagine if we flipped that around. There are absolutely Players for whom the tactical nature of combat is where they derive the majority of their enjoyment. For them, the combat is "a lot of fun". Yet, you never hear anyone advocate the removal of treasure & items, or rewards for successfully defeating the bad guys, since "combat is its own reward". This is partly why I strive to provide rewards for all the pillars in the game. IMO, successfully & energetically engaging the game, and succeeding, should be rewarded - regardless of the facet of engagement, or the intrinsic personal satisfaction of the Player for engaging it that way. You should not have game rewards withheld, just because you're having fun :p
Thanks for the feedback! Having people "kick the tires" really helps focus down on how I may want to structure this :)
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I would also suggest making sure you reward players who characters help OTHER characters in their personal journeys. Agreeing to assist others in the party doesn't just help the characters, it helps forge player bonds. Yes I'm excited to get to find the person I've been searching for, but the way my friends helped and the sacrifices they made along the way had a much greater impact on me and my character then the end result. And then I am inspired and encouraged to help my friends in their personal quests.
This is why at the end of every session I award one lump sum of XP to split between the whole party, but call out specific things/actions/moments that contributed to that pool. If two of my players had a wonderful little RP moment together, or someone revealed part of their characters history, I call that out at the end of the session as just as important as killing monsters.
I would also suggest making sure you reward players who characters help OTHER characters in their personal journeys. Agreeing to assist others in the party doesn't just help the characters, it helps forge player bonds. Yes I'm excited to get to find the person I've been searching for, but the way my friends helped and the sacrifices they made along the way had a much greater impact on me and my character then the end result. And then I am inspired and encouraged to help my friends in their personal quests.
This is why at the end of every session I award one lump sum of XP to split between the whole party, but call out specific things/actions/moments that contributed to that pool. If two of my players had a wonderful little RP moment together, or someone revealed part of their characters history, I call that out at the end of the session as just as important as killing monsters.
This is an awesome suggestion! I think it's a perfectly reasonable perspective that helping someone else achieve personal goals is - in itself - personal Character development!
My timing on rewards tends to be "as soon as the smoke clears" - but I think that's only a timing issue.
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I would also suggest making sure you reward players who characters help OTHER characters in their personal journeys. Agreeing to assist others in the party doesn't just help the characters, it helps forge player bonds. Yes I'm excited to get to find the person I've been searching for, but the way my friends helped and the sacrifices they made along the way had a much greater impact on me and my character then the end result. And then I am inspired and encouraged to help my friends in their personal quests.
This is why at the end of every session I award one lump sum of XP to split between the whole party, but call out specific things/actions/moments that contributed to that pool. If two of my players had a wonderful little RP moment together, or someone revealed part of their characters history, I call that out at the end of the session as just as important as killing monsters.
Excellent point. Having a chat after the session ends is really useful, it helps you and your players to discuss what people liked and where people can be even better. It may be you point something out they didn't realise contributed to your game. You might also find that your players tell you ways that you can help them develop their characters that you hadn't considered before.
If you, as the DM, can point out examples of when a PC played their character really well, it can only encourage them to do more.
You can also make it clear at a session zero that you will reward character development, and that's a core aspect of the kind of game you'd like to run with the players. If you're saying to your players right from the start that this a table where character growth and development is encouraged, they'll be much more likely to meet you halfway than if you start by saying "Let's just see what happens. So, you all meet in a tavern ... "
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating an asteroid field is approximately 3,720 to 1!
While I agree that having an occasional after game "bull session", where you check in with Players and see how things are going, point out where Players are really doing well ( especially if doing well in an aspect is unusual for that Player ;) ), is all incredibly useful and valuable - I prefer handing out rewards as soon as humanly possible ( so long as it's not disruptive to the Narrative and Pace ) and being really clear about what those rewards are for: That was awesome! You get Inspiration/cookie/whatever for that incredible tactical idea!
It really helps connect the behavior and the reward in people's minds.
As for being clear up front, I agree 100% - I have a document for my players entitled ( tongue in cheek ) How to Win at D&D - where I'm pretty clear how game rewards and leveling work in my campaign.
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
While I agree that having an occasional after game "bull session", where you check in with Players and see how things are going, point out where Players are really doing well ( especially if doing well in an aspect is unusual for that Player ;) ), is all incredibly useful and valuable - I prefer handing out rewards as soon as humanly possible ( so long as it's not disruptive to the Narrative and Pace ) and being really clear about what those rewards are for: That was awesome! You get Inspiration/cookie/whatever for that incredible tactical idea!
It really helps connect the behavior and the reward in people's minds.
As for being clear up front, I agree 100% - I have a document for my players entitled ( tongue in cheek ) How to Win at D&D - where I'm pretty clear how game rewards and leveling work in my campaign.
I like that (mine is called "The Crib Sheet").
I'm going to try the sugar cube idea at my next game as I see how it would be useful. Great ideas in this thread, everyone! :)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating an asteroid field is approximately 3,720 to 1!
Never tell me the DC.
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Thanks Koradgee :)
A couple of points in response:
Thanks for the feedback! Having people "kick the tires" really helps focus down on how I may want to structure this :)
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I would also suggest making sure you reward players who characters help OTHER characters in their personal journeys. Agreeing to assist others in the party doesn't just help the characters, it helps forge player bonds. Yes I'm excited to get to find the person I've been searching for, but the way my friends helped and the sacrifices they made along the way had a much greater impact on me and my character then the end result. And then I am inspired and encouraged to help my friends in their personal quests.
This is why at the end of every session I award one lump sum of XP to split between the whole party, but call out specific things/actions/moments that contributed to that pool. If two of my players had a wonderful little RP moment together, or someone revealed part of their characters history, I call that out at the end of the session as just as important as killing monsters.
Find me on Twitter: @OboeLauren
This is an awesome suggestion! I think it's a perfectly reasonable perspective that helping someone else achieve personal goals is - in itself - personal Character development!
My timing on rewards tends to be "as soon as the smoke clears" - but I think that's only a timing issue.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Excellent point. Having a chat after the session ends is really useful, it helps you and your players to discuss what people liked and where people can be even better. It may be you point something out they didn't realise contributed to your game. You might also find that your players tell you ways that you can help them develop their characters that you hadn't considered before.
If you, as the DM, can point out examples of when a PC played their character really well, it can only encourage them to do more.
You can also make it clear at a session zero that you will reward character development, and that's a core aspect of the kind of game you'd like to run with the players. If you're saying to your players right from the start that this a table where character growth and development is encouraged, they'll be much more likely to meet you halfway than if you start by saying "Let's just see what happens. So, you all meet in a tavern ... "
Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating an asteroid field is approximately 3,720 to 1!
Never tell me the DC.
While I agree that having an occasional after game "bull session", where you check in with Players and see how things are going, point out where Players are really doing well ( especially if doing well in an aspect is unusual for that Player ;) ), is all incredibly useful and valuable - I prefer handing out rewards as soon as humanly possible ( so long as it's not disruptive to the Narrative and Pace ) and being really clear about what those rewards are for: That was awesome! You get Inspiration/cookie/whatever for that incredible tactical idea!
It really helps connect the behavior and the reward in people's minds.
As for being clear up front, I agree 100% - I have a document for my players entitled ( tongue in cheek ) How to Win at D&D - where I'm pretty clear how game rewards and leveling work in my campaign.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I like that (mine is called "The Crib Sheet").
I'm going to try the sugar cube idea at my next game as I see how it would be useful. Great ideas in this thread, everyone! :)
Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating an asteroid field is approximately 3,720 to 1!
Never tell me the DC.