And here we are with another subclass suggested by Addlcove.
Let's see what you think of this dual-wield focused Barbarian Path.
Path of the Maelstrom
Fighting Style
Starting at 3rd level, you choose one of the following Fighting Styles:
Great Weapon Fighting When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
Two-Weapon Fighting When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
Crashing Currents
Starting at 3rd level, as one of your attacks when using the Attack action when you rage and are wielding a melee weapon in each hand, you can perform a single attack using both your weapons. You make a single Attack roll, and if you hit, you damage is equal to both weapons damage dice+your STR modifier (once). You can still use your off-hand weapon attack as a Bonus action when using this feature. Alternatively, when wielding only one two-handed weapon, you can use this feature to roll one additional weapon damage die and add it to the damage you deal. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your STR modifier each long rest.
Crushing Pull
Starting at 6th level, as a bonus action on your turn, you call upon the natural forces of the Maelstrom to pull any creature within 10 feet of you 5 feet towards you. The target can make a STR saving throw to negate this movement, with a DC equal to 8+your CON modifier+your Proficiency bonus. This movement can provoke attacks of opportunity. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your CON modifier each long rest.
Ocean Grip
Starting at 10th level, while you are raging, you can use one melee weapon with the Heavy quality in each hand. Should you have access to the Great Weapon Fighting Style, you retain the benefit even when using heavy weapons with one hand. Additionally, you gain the Fighting style you did not chose as the level 3 feature of this subclass.
Maelstrom
Starting at 14th level, as an action in your turn while you are raging and using two melee weapons with the Heavy quality in each hand, you can unleash the power of the Maelstrom. All creatures within 5 feet of you need to make a DEX saving throw against a DC of 8+your STR modifier+your Proficiency bonus. On a failed save, they will suffer damage equal to both weapon damage dice+double your STR modifier+your Proficiency bonus, and half as much on a successful save. This attack will not allow you to perform your off-hand attack with your Bonus action. You can use this feature once each long rest.
I am not sure I am 100% satisfied with the Maelstrom feature, but then again it's a lvl 14 feature, so it can't be toooooo powerful, I think...
As always, suggestions, comments feedback and ideas are welcome :)
What if Maelstrom was a standard damage set which had some scaling to it? You figure the best combo is going to be something like 20 STR (+5) with like two mauls (2d6 each). So you end up dealing 4d6+10 at level 14, which is pretty standard, and a crit would be amazing (should probably notate that a critical hit only applies to the first target hit??). So instead of that, maybe give it 2d10 + Barbarian Level, and give an additional d10 at level 17/18? Would that offer some scaling with balance?
I also like maybe the idea of being able to move half your speed, if you have movement left, while doing this. Or maybe even half your remaining movement so you can gauge how far you want to move to get in position for something? Would that cause too much power in the subclass?
So instead of that, maybe give it 2d10 + Barbarian Level, and give an additional d10 at level 17/18?
You could really almost drop that to 2d8, instead, given the fact that you're going to be hitting a ton of people. Let's just say you have 5 people within melee of you (crazy goblins!), 2d10 + level is an insane amount of damage to all of them at once. Fireball is 8d6, with a possibility of saving, which would make it more like 4d6 is everyone saves. Then again, at 14th level a Wizard has access to one 7th level spell, which is more like 12d6 (with a save equating to 6d6). Pardon me while I talk (write) this out and hope for feedback. I've never made a subclass before, so I have no idea if any of this truly matters in terms of balancing.
So max damage with a save of a 7th level fireball is 36 damage; 72 if the creature(s) did not save. Max damage of my the current version is in the neighborhood of 34 damage (assuming 2d6 or 1d12 melee weapons with +5 STR). Max damage of my initial thought is 34 damage at level 14, with potential to increase over time. The increase is not as good as my fireball example through 9th level (ending up at 14d6 for 42/82 damage). But adding the extra d10 would give you a max output at level 20 of 50 damage.
If we look at 2d8, adding 1d8 later, you start out with 30 damage and only end up with 44 damage. Alternatively, we could look at 2d12 + level, with an increase of 1d12 to deal 38 damage and then 56 damage by level 20.
Granted, all of this has to be tempered against the standard Barbarian features, but I'm trying to think of this AoE feature compared to a standard AoE spell. And I may be overthinking it entirely. But if you do d12s plus barbarian level, you get the most bang for buck, and you kind of end up starting with the same number at levl 14 without making it too overpowered, I think, early on. At level 17 you get to add another die to keep you competitive, and this is really one of those things you do only when you're surrounded. So in that light it needs to have some power behind it, which is why I like adding the movement to it. It really allows for a little utility to the ability, in my opinion. Maybe you mow down about 5-10 of the small minions on your way to the BBEG, clearing a path for your party. All the while, your spellcaster can still cast Fireball to take out another group not around you. Getting your own AoE is kind of cool, and maybe it should be a little overpowered?
It's funny, I started out wanting to drop the damage, and ended up saying let's take it up one notch.
So instead of that, maybe give it 2d10 + Barbarian Level, and give an additional d10 at level 17/18?
You could really almost drop that to 2d8, instead, given the fact that you're going to be hitting a ton of people. Let's just say you have 5 people within melee of you (crazy goblins!), 2d10 + level is an insane amount of damage to all of them at once. Fireball is 8d6, with a possibility of saving, which would make it more like 4d6 is everyone saves. Then again, at 14th level a Wizard has access to one 7th level spell, which is more like 12d6 (with a save equating to 6d6). Pardon me while I talk (write) this out and hope for feedback. I've never made a subclass before, so I have no idea if any of this truly matters in terms of balancing.
So max damage with a save of a 7th level fireball is 36 damage; 72 if the creature(s) did not save. Max damage of my the current version is in the neighborhood of 34 damage (assuming 2d6 or 1d12 melee weapons with +5 STR). Max damage of my initial thought is 34 damage at level 14, with potential to increase over time. The increase is not as good as my fireball example through 9th level (ending up at 14d6 for 42/82 damage). But adding the extra d10 would give you a max output at level 20 of 50 damage.
If we look at 2d8, adding 1d8 later, you start out with 30 damage and only end up with 44 damage. Alternatively, we could look at 2d12 + level, with an increase of 1d12 to deal 38 damage and then 56 damage by level 20.
Granted, all of this has to be tempered against the standard Barbarian features, but I'm trying to think of this AoE feature compared to a standard AoE spell. And I may be overthinking it entirely. But if you do d12s plus barbarian level, you get the most bang for buck, and you kind of end up starting with the same number at levl 14 without making it too overpowered, I think, early on. At level 17 you get to add another die to keep you competitive, and this is really one of those things you do only when you're surrounded. So in that light it needs to have some power behind it, which is why I like adding the movement to it. It really allows for a little utility to the ability, in my opinion. Maybe you mow down about 5-10 of the small minions on your way to the BBEG, clearing a path for your party. All the while, your spellcaster can still cast Fireball to take out another group not around you. Getting your own AoE is kind of cool, and maybe it should be a little overpowered?
It's funny, I started out wanting to drop the damage, and ended up saying let's take it up one notch.
Why are you calculating max damage? It's average damage that you should be worrying about. Fireball does 28, save for half, by the way.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
As stated, never homebrewed a class or subclass. I really only deal in modifying monsters or minor magic items. I was working with the assumption on how overpowered it can possibly be being important. Though it seems that the difference in numbers would be similar if all are calculated at average or all at Max, wouldn't it?
@Capt0bv10u5-> the idea is that, given it is an AoE attack, the somewhat "normal" damage is counterbalanced by the possible number of enemies hit. On top of that, this is a skill I had designed to work in conjunction with Crushing Pull, as the Bonus action cannot be used for an attack with Maelstrom, but it doesn't forbid the use of other features. I will probably make Crushing Pull work on a 15 foot radius, rather than 10, to account for reach weapons possible being used with this feature. Thinking about it, though, being an AoE attack, instead of the attack roll I'll probably change it to a DEX save for the targets, to avoid possible criticals (which would indeed make things a tad more complicated) allowing half damage on a successful save, as well as add the Proficiency bonus to the damage, to give a little extra boost. What do you think?
I missed the combo of Crushing Pull, that would negate the need for movement, especially if its range is increased to 15 feet.
I see you still have the damage at both weapon damage plus double strength, then plus proficiency. Maximizing this would always assume the use of either 1d12 weapons or 2d6 weapons. Since it is a once per day feature, would it make sense to just have it be a set damage using one of those dice sets (at 2d12 or 4d6)? Again, asking because I want to understand the process, not necessarily because I am challenging it
And if you still aren't quite happy with the total damage output, is there any reason to not allow the damage dice to scale? Your proficiency bonus only increases by one between 14 and 20, and happens at level 17 along with Brutal Critical. In my head this seems like a good place to add a damage die if you were going with the standard 2d12 (up to 3) or 4d6 (up to 6) as opposed to someone who is using d10 heavy weapons for some reason. Then again, if the player chooses to not use larger weapons, that is kind of on them. Alternatively, it could increase to triple your Strength modifier at level 17? All just random thoughts, and none of which are likely truly in balance.
You do not have the save DC listed for Maelstrom. Is it going to use the same as Crushing Pull, or would it be 8 + proficiency + Strength modifier? If so, would it make sense to change Crushing Pull to be based on your Strength? Or moving out of a single feature's description so it is a subclass standard DC instead? Both Strength and Constitution are obviously important to all Barbarians, and this one in particular thanks to the modifier dictating how often you can use certain features. So I see no reason for the use of one over another outside of flavor, in my opinion.
Edit: Also, it seems odd that you are given a choice between Great Weapon and Two-Weapon fighting styles, but the Crashing Currents requires you to be using two weapons. It seems like it would almost be better to just grant Two-Weapon Fighting and maybe introduce the reroll on 1s only as a part of a later feature.
I missed the combo of Crushing Pull, that would negate the need for movement, especially if its range is increased to 15 feet.
I see you still have the damage at both weapon damage plus double strength, then plus proficiency. Maximizing this would always assume the use of either 1d12 weapons or 2d6 weapons. Since it is a once per day feature, would it make sense to just have it be a set damage using one of those dice sets (at 2d12 or 4d6)? Again, asking because I want to understand the process, not necessarily because I am challenging it
And if you still aren't quite happy with the total damage output, is there any reason to not allow the damage dice to scale? Your proficiency bonus only increases by one between 14 and 20, and happens at level 17 along with Brutal Critical. In my head this seems like a good place to add a damage die if you were going with the standard 2d12 (up to 3) or 4d6 (up to 6) as opposed to someone who is using d10 heavy weapons for some reason. Then again, if the player chooses to not use larger weapons, that is kind of on them. Alternatively, it could increase to triple your Strength modifier at level 17? All just random thoughts, and none of which are likely truly in balance.
So, the reasoning behind tying the damage to the weapons actually used is essentially for two reasons: - I prefer to give meaning to the choice of weapon the character/player makes; - I'd prefer for any additional special effect the weapon might have to come into play
This then ties into my reticence in making damage scaling, as factoring in possible bonuses and other properties from magical weapons, the damage would naturally become better, or remain constantly good should the player not find better weapons.
You do not have the save DC listed for Maelstrom. Is it going to use the same as Crushing Pull, or would it be 8 + proficiency + Strength modifier? If so, would it make sense to change Crushing Pull to be based on your Strength? Or moving out of a single feature's description so it is a subclass standard DC instead? Both Strength and Constitution are obviously important to all Barbarians, and this one in particular thanks to the modifier dictating how often you can use certain features. So I see no reason for the use of one over another outside of flavor, in my opinion.
The lack of DC in Maelstrom is an oversight on my part, and you are correct in assuming it would use STR instead of CON. This is because usually when I design features I try to think "what is the actual thing that is making this call for a save roll?". In these cases, STR is the obvious choice for Maelstrom, as it is the brute force behind the whirlpool attack that's the danger to escape from. In the case of Crushing Pull, and the reason why it is CON instead of STR, is because (this is going to sound silly, so I apologise in advance) in my mind I envisioned it as the mass itself of the Barbarian being what generates the danger, as for example [here comes the silliness] the Barbarian uses his impressive pulmonar capacity to "suck" in enemies (told ya it was silly), not unlike the Superman of old. Now, I know this sounds incredibly weird and possibly lame, so I preferred to leave the actual description to each person using this (for example for someone else it might make more sense that the Barbarian suddenly generates a pulse of gravitational force that affects creatures around them), but the bottom line is that, to me, this power comes from the CON of the character.
Edit: Also, it seems odd that you are given a choice between Great Weapon and Two-Weapon fighting styles, but the Crashing Currents requires you to be using two weapons. It seems like it would almost be better to just grant Two-Weapon Fighting and maybe introduce the reroll on 1s only as a part of a later feature.
This one is a bit trickier, and it's also a matter of choice and "road" with which a character has come to Path of the Maelstrom. I feel this subclass can have quite some synergy with Fighter, or even Ranger, and therefore one could come to this with already a Fighting Style under their belt, and therefore I thought it could be useful to give two equally valid choices.
One could select two weapon fighting because they already have Great Weapon, or the other way around, or one could have none of the two and decide they prefer to play the long game and have for example an almost always assured minimum damage of 12 (considering double-dice weapons)+STR mod when landing hits from level 10 onwards, which is better than a minimum of 4+STR mod (I should probably include in the Ocean Grip description that one can actually retain the Great Weapon benefit, as the way the fighting style is worded implies the weapon NEEDS to be wielded with with two hands).
Granting both within the subclass seems a bit much, I think, so I prefer giving the choice. One could even decide to take the other one by dipping one or two levels in Fighter, but in general I prefer for it to be a tradeoff on something else when it's a matter of "duplicating" features.
Not sure all the above makes sense, so if it does not let me know and I'll try to clarify further ^^"
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
That all makes sense to me. I appreciate you taking the time to break it down and give that insight. I kind of like the use of the Superman reference, even if he was more of a Paladin than a Barbarian! lol
That all makes sense to me. I appreciate you taking the time to break it down and give that insight. I kind of like the use of the Superman reference, even if he was more of a Paladin than a Barbarian! lol
My pleasure, I actually like people asking me the reasoning and origin of my choices :)
And yeah, conceptually Supes is more a Paladin, but back in the days he had such stupidly overpowered capabilities (not that he would be a pushover now) that it was almost comical, hence a bit of a barbarian as well (Barbarians can be/do things that are quite comical at times). I always remember he would suddenly have access to a new power needed for the exact situation he was finding himself into, much like the famous "Bat shark-repellent" of the '60 Batman TV show.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Finally getting around to doing this. Apologies for the delay. This one is a.. Weird one to me. I'm not honestly sure I like this. A lot of its abilities negate at certain levels or need a higher level to be truly effective.
Path of the Maelstrom
Fighting Style
Starting at 3rd level, you choose one of the following Fighting Styles:
Good start with this. Introducing a fighting style is something none of the other paths do.
Great Weapon Fighting When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
Great weapon makes sense, when you get to level ten. Till then, you're either not using a great weapon or not using your other third level class feature.
Two-Weapon Fighting When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
This one makes sense for the whole class and almost all its features. Not sure why you'd pick great weapon master over this.
Crashing Currents
Starting at 3rd level, as an action when you rage and are wielding a melee weapon in each hand, you can perform a single attack using both your weapons. You make a single Attack roll, and if you hit, you damage is equal to both weapons damage dice+your STR modifier (once). You can still use your off-hand weapon attack as a Bonus action when using this feature. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your STR modifier each long rest.
This, as written, lets you make one attack in place of your attack action. Which at level three is awesome. But at level 5 when multi attack comes into play, this would negate the second attack, making it useless. Why make one attack for two damage dice and only one strength mod when you can make two? Especially one that's resource limited.
Crushing Pull
Starting at 6th level, as a bonus action on your turn, you call upon the natural forces of the Maelstrom to pull any creature within 10 feet of you 5 feet towards you. The target can make a STR saving throw to negate this movement, with a DC equal to 8+your CON modifier+your Proficiency bonus. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your CON modifier each long rest.
Movement control is pretty powerful. Does this trigger any Attacks of opportunity from your allies? If so, this is a beautiful tanking move that is properly limited.
Ocean Grip
Starting at 10th level, while you are raging, you can use one melee weapon with the Heavy quality in each hand. Should you have access to the Great Weapon Fighting Style, you retain the benefit even when using heavy weapons with one hand.
This is the level ten ability that makes GWFS actually useful for the class idea. Duelweilding heavy weapons is badass, and a Barbarian is the class to do it. But it honestly seems weak. Its still better to nab two weapon fighting style for the extra strength damage.
Maelstrom
Starting at 14th level, as an action in your turn while you are raging and using two melee weapons with the Heavy quality in each hand, you can unleash the power of the Maelstrom. All creatures within 5 feet of you need to make a DEX saving throw against a DC of 8+your STR modifier+your Proficiency bonus. On a failed save, they will suffer damage equal to both weapon damage dice+double your STR modifier+your Proficiency bonus, and half as much on a successful save. This attack will not allow you to perform your off-hand attack with your Bonus action. You can use this feature once each long rest.
This is good, especially if you can pull of a crushing pull before using it. Nab all the enemies close together and wail on em.
All in all I'm not too much of a fan of this one. I love the idea of a Barbarian duel wielding great axes, but that comes at level ten while the level three ability is underwhelming.
Finally getting around to doing this. Apologies for the delay. This one is a.. Weird one to me. I'm not honestly sure I like this. A lot of its abilities negate at certain levels or need a higher level to be truly effective.
Path of the Maelstrom
Fighting Style
Starting at 3rd level, you choose one of the following Fighting Styles:
Good start with this. Introducing a fighting style is something none of the other paths do.
Great Weapon Fighting When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
Great weapon makes sense, when you get to level ten. Till then, you're either not using a great weapon or not using your other third level class feature.
Two-Weapon Fighting When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
This one makes sense for the whole class and almost all its features. Not sure why you'd pick great weapon master over this.
Crashing Currents
Starting at 3rd level, as an action when you rage and are wielding a melee weapon in each hand, you can perform a single attack using both your weapons. You make a single Attack roll, and if you hit, you damage is equal to both weapons damage dice+your STR modifier (once). You can still use your off-hand weapon attack as a Bonus action when using this feature. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your STR modifier each long rest.
This, as written, lets you make one attack in place of your attack action. Which at level three is awesome. But at level 5 when multi attack comes into play, this would negate the second attack, making it useless. Why make one attack for two damage dice and only one strength mod when you can make two? Especially one that's resource limited.
Crushing Pull
Starting at 6th level, as a bonus action on your turn, you call upon the natural forces of the Maelstrom to pull any creature within 10 feet of you 5 feet towards you. The target can make a STR saving throw to negate this movement, with a DC equal to 8+your CON modifier+your Proficiency bonus. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your CON modifier each long rest.
Movement control is pretty powerful. Does this trigger any Attacks of opportunity from your allies? If so, this is a beautiful tanking move that is properly limited.
Ocean Grip
Starting at 10th level, while you are raging, you can use one melee weapon with the Heavy quality in each hand. Should you have access to the Great Weapon Fighting Style, you retain the benefit even when using heavy weapons with one hand.
This is the level ten ability that makes GWFS actually useful for the class idea. Duelweilding heavy weapons is badass, and a Barbarian is the class to do it. But it honestly seems weak. Its still better to nab two weapon fighting style for the extra strength damage.
Maelstrom
Starting at 14th level, as an action in your turn while you are raging and using two melee weapons with the Heavy quality in each hand, you can unleash the power of the Maelstrom. All creatures within 5 feet of you need to make a DEX saving throw against a DC of 8+your STR modifier+your Proficiency bonus. On a failed save, they will suffer damage equal to both weapon damage dice+double your STR modifier+your Proficiency bonus, and half as much on a successful save. This attack will not allow you to perform your off-hand attack with your Bonus action. You can use this feature once each long rest.
This is good, especially if you can pull of a crushing pull before using it. Nab all the enemies close together and wail on em.
All in all I'm not too much of a fan of this one. I love the idea of a Barbarian duel wielding great axes, but that comes at level ten while the level three ability is underwhelming.
Hi Kageacuma!
Thank you for the feedback! As I explained in an earlier reply, the choice between the two fighting styles is mostly to account for possibly already having one of the two from some other source.
I see, though, how it could be a tad underwhelming when looking at the rest of the features... I am now maybe considering giving the one that was not chosen at level 3 as part of the level 10 feature.
Crashing currents: you are totally right, I did not account for the extra attack. I will probably change this to use "one of your attacks during the Attack action", in order to account for this and keep it relevant beyond lvl 5.
Crushing pull: yup, attacks of opportunity are a thing with this, so it can be an extremely tactical feature.
Ocean's grip: as said above, this will most probably grant either GWF or TWF as well, to make it more relevant and comprehensive, albeit maaaaaybe potentially OP.
Maelstrom: thank you :)
Let me know if the above changes make you like it more ;)
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Added the following alternative effect to Crashing Currents: Alternatively, when wielding only one two-handed weapon, you can use this feature to roll one additional weapon damage die and add it to the damage you deal.
This way the feature remains a valid option even if someone would prefer to go the two-handed way until level 10, instead of the dual wield one from lvl 3 already.
Added a note in Crushing Pull to make it clear the movement can trigger attacks of opportunity.
Added the following to Ocean Grip : Additionally, you gain the Fighting style you did not chose as the level 3 feature of this subclass.
Now the subclass not only gives one, but two fighting styles... hopefully this does not make it too OP, let me know what you guys think.
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And here we are with another subclass suggested by Addlcove.
Let's see what you think of this dual-wield focused Barbarian Path.
Path of the Maelstrom
Fighting Style
Starting at 3rd level, you choose one of the following Fighting Styles:
Great Weapon Fighting
When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
Crashing Currents
Starting at 3rd level, as one of your attacks when using the Attack action when you rage and are wielding a melee weapon in each hand, you can perform a single attack using both your weapons. You make a single Attack roll, and if you hit, you damage is equal to both weapons damage dice+your STR modifier (once). You can still use your off-hand weapon attack as a Bonus action when using this feature.
Alternatively, when wielding only one two-handed weapon, you can use this feature to roll one additional weapon damage die and add it to the damage you deal.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your STR modifier each long rest.
Crushing Pull
Starting at 6th level, as a bonus action on your turn, you call upon the natural forces of the Maelstrom to pull any creature within 10 feet of you 5 feet towards you. The target can make a STR saving throw to negate this movement, with a DC equal to 8+your CON modifier+your Proficiency bonus. This movement can provoke attacks of opportunity.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your CON modifier each long rest.
Ocean Grip
Starting at 10th level, while you are raging, you can use one melee weapon with the Heavy quality in each hand. Should you have access to the Great Weapon Fighting Style, you retain the benefit even when using heavy weapons with one hand.
Additionally, you gain the Fighting style you did not chose as the level 3 feature of this subclass.
Maelstrom
Starting at 14th level, as an action in your turn while you are raging and using two melee weapons with the Heavy quality in each hand, you can unleash the power of the Maelstrom.
All creatures within 5 feet of you need to make a DEX saving throw against a DC of 8+your STR modifier+your Proficiency bonus. On a failed save, they will suffer damage equal to both weapon damage dice+double your STR modifier+your Proficiency bonus, and half as much on a successful save.
This attack will not allow you to perform your off-hand attack with your Bonus action.
You can use this feature once each long rest.
I am not sure I am 100% satisfied with the Maelstrom feature, but then again it's a lvl 14 feature, so it can't be toooooo powerful, I think...
As always, suggestions, comments feedback and ideas are welcome :)
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
What if Maelstrom was a standard damage set which had some scaling to it? You figure the best combo is going to be something like 20 STR (+5) with like two mauls (2d6 each). So you end up dealing 4d6+10 at level 14, which is pretty standard, and a crit would be amazing (should probably notate that a critical hit only applies to the first target hit??). So instead of that, maybe give it 2d10 + Barbarian Level, and give an additional d10 at level 17/18? Would that offer some scaling with balance?
I also like maybe the idea of being able to move half your speed, if you have movement left, while doing this. Or maybe even half your remaining movement so you can gauge how far you want to move to get in position for something? Would that cause too much power in the subclass?
Crushing Pull
I would recommend making it a strength save to be more in line with other forced movement saves.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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As stated, never homebrewed a class or subclass. I really only deal in modifying monsters or minor magic items. I was working with the assumption on how overpowered it can possibly be being important. Though it seems that the difference in numbers would be similar if all are calculated at average or all at Max, wouldn't it?
Apologies for the late reply!
@Capt0bv10u5 -> the idea is that, given it is an AoE attack, the somewhat "normal" damage is counterbalanced by the possible number of enemies hit. On top of that, this is a skill I had designed to work in conjunction with Crushing Pull, as the Bonus action cannot be used for an attack with Maelstrom, but it doesn't forbid the use of other features. I will probably make Crushing Pull work on a 15 foot radius, rather than 10, to account for reach weapons possible being used with this feature.
Thinking about it, though, being an AoE attack, instead of the attack roll I'll probably change it to a DEX save for the targets, to avoid possible criticals (which would indeed make things a tad more complicated) allowing half damage on a successful save, as well as add the Proficiency bonus to the damage, to give a little extra boost.
What do you think?
@jGol -> Good point, changed that, thank you!
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
I missed the combo of Crushing Pull, that would negate the need for movement, especially if its range is increased to 15 feet.
I see you still have the damage at both weapon damage plus double strength, then plus proficiency. Maximizing this would always assume the use of either 1d12 weapons or 2d6 weapons. Since it is a once per day feature, would it make sense to just have it be a set damage using one of those dice sets (at 2d12 or 4d6)? Again, asking because I want to understand the process, not necessarily because I am challenging it
And if you still aren't quite happy with the total damage output, is there any reason to not allow the damage dice to scale? Your proficiency bonus only increases by one between 14 and 20, and happens at level 17 along with Brutal Critical. In my head this seems like a good place to add a damage die if you were going with the standard 2d12 (up to 3) or 4d6 (up to 6) as opposed to someone who is using d10 heavy weapons for some reason. Then again, if the player chooses to not use larger weapons, that is kind of on them. Alternatively, it could increase to triple your Strength modifier at level 17? All just random thoughts, and none of which are likely truly in balance.
You do not have the save DC listed for Maelstrom. Is it going to use the same as Crushing Pull, or would it be 8 + proficiency + Strength modifier? If so, would it make sense to change Crushing Pull to be based on your Strength? Or moving out of a single feature's description so it is a subclass standard DC instead? Both Strength and Constitution are obviously important to all Barbarians, and this one in particular thanks to the modifier dictating how often you can use certain features. So I see no reason for the use of one over another outside of flavor, in my opinion.
Edit: Also, it seems odd that you are given a choice between Great Weapon and Two-Weapon fighting styles, but the Crashing Currents requires you to be using two weapons. It seems like it would almost be better to just grant Two-Weapon Fighting and maybe introduce the reroll on 1s only as a part of a later feature.
- I prefer to give meaning to the choice of weapon the character/player makes;
- I'd prefer for any additional special effect the weapon might have to come into play
The lack of DC in Maelstrom is an oversight on my part, and you are correct in assuming it would use STR instead of CON. This is because usually when I design features I try to think "what is the actual thing that is making this call for a save roll?". In these cases, STR is the obvious choice for Maelstrom, as it is the brute force behind the whirlpool attack that's the danger to escape from. In the case of Crushing Pull, and the reason why it is CON instead of STR, is because (this is going to sound silly, so I apologise in advance) in my mind I envisioned it as the mass itself of the Barbarian being what generates the danger, as for example [here comes the silliness] the Barbarian uses his impressive pulmonar capacity to "suck" in enemies (told ya it was silly), not unlike the Superman of old. Now, I know this sounds incredibly weird and possibly lame, so I preferred to leave the actual description to each person using this (for example for someone else it might make more sense that the Barbarian suddenly generates a pulse of gravitational force that affects creatures around them), but the bottom line is that, to me, this power comes from the CON of the character.
This one is a bit trickier, and it's also a matter of choice and "road" with which a character has come to Path of the Maelstrom.
I feel this subclass can have quite some synergy with Fighter, or even Ranger, and therefore one could come to this with already a Fighting Style under their belt, and therefore I thought it could be useful to give two equally valid choices.
One could select two weapon fighting because they already have Great Weapon, or the other way around, or one could have none of the two and decide they prefer to play the long game and have for example an almost always assured minimum damage of 12 (considering double-dice weapons)+STR mod when landing hits from level 10 onwards, which is better than a minimum of 4+STR mod (I should probably include in the Ocean Grip description that one can actually retain the Great Weapon benefit, as the way the fighting style is worded implies the weapon NEEDS to be wielded with with two hands).
Granting both within the subclass seems a bit much, I think, so I prefer giving the choice. One could even decide to take the other one by dipping one or two levels in Fighter, but in general I prefer for it to be a tradeoff on something else when it's a matter of "duplicating" features.
Not sure all the above makes sense, so if it does not let me know and I'll try to clarify further ^^"
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
That all makes sense to me. I appreciate you taking the time to break it down and give that insight. I kind of like the use of the Superman reference, even if he was more of a Paladin than a Barbarian! lol
I always remember he would suddenly have access to a new power needed for the exact situation he was finding himself into, much like the famous "Bat shark-repellent" of the '60 Batman TV show.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Finally getting around to doing this. Apologies for the delay. This one is a.. Weird one to me. I'm not honestly sure I like this. A lot of its abilities negate at certain levels or need a higher level to be truly effective.
Path of the Maelstrom
Fighting Style
Starting at 3rd level, you choose one of the following Fighting Styles:
Good start with this. Introducing a fighting style is something none of the other paths do.
Great Weapon Fighting
When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
Great weapon makes sense, when you get to level ten. Till then, you're either not using a great weapon or not using your other third level class feature.
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
This one makes sense for the whole class and almost all its features. Not sure why you'd pick great weapon master over this.
Crashing Currents
Starting at 3rd level, as an action when you rage and are wielding a melee weapon in each hand, you can perform a single attack using both your weapons. You make a single Attack roll, and if you hit, you damage is equal to both weapons damage dice+your STR modifier (once). You can still use your off-hand weapon attack as a Bonus action when using this feature.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your STR modifier each long rest.
This, as written, lets you make one attack in place of your attack action. Which at level three is awesome. But at level 5 when multi attack comes into play, this would negate the second attack, making it useless. Why make one attack for two damage dice and only one strength mod when you can make two? Especially one that's resource limited.
Crushing Pull
Starting at 6th level, as a bonus action on your turn, you call upon the natural forces of the Maelstrom to pull any creature within 10 feet of you 5 feet towards you. The target can make a STR saving throw to negate this movement, with a DC equal to 8+your CON modifier+your Proficiency bonus.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your CON modifier each long rest.
Movement control is pretty powerful. Does this trigger any Attacks of opportunity from your allies? If so, this is a beautiful tanking move that is properly limited.
Ocean Grip
Starting at 10th level, while you are raging, you can use one melee weapon with the Heavy quality in each hand. Should you have access to the Great Weapon Fighting Style, you retain the benefit even when using heavy weapons with one hand.
This is the level ten ability that makes GWFS actually useful for the class idea. Duelweilding heavy weapons is badass, and a Barbarian is the class to do it. But it honestly seems weak. Its still better to nab two weapon fighting style for the extra strength damage.
Maelstrom
Starting at 14th level, as an action in your turn while you are raging and using two melee weapons with the Heavy quality in each hand, you can unleash the power of the Maelstrom.
All creatures within 5 feet of you need to make a DEX saving throw against a DC of 8+your STR modifier+your Proficiency bonus. On a failed save, they will suffer damage equal to both weapon damage dice+double your STR modifier+your Proficiency bonus, and half as much on a successful save.
This attack will not allow you to perform your off-hand attack with your Bonus action.
You can use this feature once each long rest.
This is good, especially if you can pull of a crushing pull before using it. Nab all the enemies close together and wail on em.
All in all I'm not too much of a fan of this one. I love the idea of a Barbarian duel wielding great axes, but that comes at level ten while the level three ability is underwhelming.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Added the following alternative effect to Crashing Currents:
Alternatively, when wielding only one two-handed weapon, you can use this feature to roll one additional weapon damage die and add it to the damage you deal.
This way the feature remains a valid option even if someone would prefer to go the two-handed way until level 10, instead of the dual wield one from lvl 3 already.
Added a note in Crushing Pull to make it clear the movement can trigger attacks of opportunity.
Added the following to Ocean Grip :
Additionally, you gain the Fighting style you did not chose as the level 3 feature of this subclass.
Now the subclass not only gives one, but two fighting styles... hopefully this does not make it too OP, let me know what you guys think.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games