Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Hi!
Is Anyone interested in an expert class with techniques both outside and inside combat inspired by Skills, which can compete with spellcasters ?
Sounds interesting.
3 levels first... There are dozens of ways to design a class based on skills. My non-spell Bard is already one example. Now we will create a more spectacular class (since debuff is not an obvious powerhouse).
A martial version would need to both deal damage and match spellcasters in their ability to create condition-altering effects, which a spell like command can already do at level 1.
It also needs to avoid being too strong at levels 1 and 2 in order to prevent abusive multiclassing and excessive front-loading, since it’s easy to end up with 100+ techniques derived from skills.
My plan:
Level 1: Expertise in 2 skills, 4 skills total.
An expert is a specialist, not a skill monkey.
At level 1, it’s also a good place to grant informational combat bonuses based on “mental” skills, somewhat like D&D 4e—a category of enemies per skill that provides information (Intelligence and Wisdom-based skills). Perception is removed because it is already extremely powerful on its own: Investigation, Religion, Arcana, Insight, Nature, Survival, History, Animal Handling, Medicine.
Each skill corresponds to an enemy category.
As a bonus action, you can analyse an enemy based on his class, according to your skill.
a skill check that exceeds the DC equal to 10+CR (note: 1/8=+1, ¼ +2, ½=+3, do cr 1 = 14) grants +1d6 damage for the expert and +1d4 damage to their allies up to the end of your next turn (2 rounds, to avoid infinite bookkeeping, not necessarily for realism). Expertise is factored in.
Level 2: As a reaction, you can analyse an enemy as per the level 1 ability. A little plus for your ally if he already got a 1d4. 1d10 instead ?
Arcana: aberrations, elementals
Investigation: Constructs
Religion: undead, celestials, fiends
Insight: humanoids
History: armies (for a mass combat system)
Nature and Survival: beasts, plants
Medicine: Humanoids, oozes
Animal Handling: beasts
Level 3: choose 2 skills in which you are an Expert—this defines your archetype. This creates over 100 possible archetype combinations.
At level 3, you also select 2 skill techniques.
Since this is D&D, Dexterity and Strength-based skills should likely be prioritized. Should I require one technique tied to a Dexterity or Strength skill and one tied to a mental skill? Otherwise, it risks becoming too powerful—and also somewhat dull.
ex:
Athletics
Line breaker
When you succeed on a shove attempt by 5 or more, you can:
Combat climber
You can climb at full speed without a check if your hands are free.
In combat:
Brutal throw
After grappling a creature:
Acrobatics
Reposition
When an attack misses you:
Leap Over You can move through the space of a larger hostile creature without treating it as difficult terrain
etc. Good direction ?
1 - What would you define as armies? Because that sounds like it’s purely up to the dm's discretion at what constitutes as an army. Also is the extra damage per attack, or any instance of damage? The 1d4 for everyone and the expert getting a 1d6 for a few rounds is nuts, from my reading, they just suddenly get the damage with no restriction for what it benefits against. So you could just target the lowest cr enemy and get free damage as a bonus action.
2 - A 1d10 is WAY too strong, that’s practically doubling a martial class's damage. What’s stopping the expert from spamming their ability? They have no other bonus actions and very limited reaction uses, so what’s stopping them from constantly activating the ability throughout the fight, which easily surpasses even some pretty strong spells.
3 - Why would the class focus on being Dex or strength based? You’ve given it nothing to incentivise those skills at all, the class has no hit dice, no saving throw proficiency, in fact, your first level ability actively focuses on mental stats instead. Why would it be too powerful/dull? Aren’t they a specialist, not a skill monkey?
Line breaker seems fine to me, but it seems like it would really want to be part of a martial class. The 5 or more is a bit of a problem though, since your using athletics, you have to beat the target's athletics check by 5, it just seems a tad situational.
One of Brutal Throw's ability sucks though, throwing it 5 feet to an empty space would mean it’s out of your grapple. Also the takes damage equal to Strength is overpowered as all hell, you mean that they may take damage equal to 17 from a single grapple? If not, specify that it’s equal to strength modifier.
The one for acrobatics is too weak compared to Athletics, if your having two at the same time, who wouldn’t choose the one for athletics, it’s a more common skill and is far more loaded in abilities.
Since ya'll seem to want martials to be able to impose conditions like a caster... May I suggest simply creating Skill Actions
Skill Actions
A skill action involves making a skill check against a specific ability DC of one enemy creature (DC = 8 + ability modifier + proficiency bonus). On a success it imposes a specific effect or condition on that creature. Any character can attempt a skill action as an Action on their turn. Certain skill actions can be used as a Bonus Action if certain prerequisites are met.
Intimidate (range: 15 ft)
You glare, shout or gesture aggressively attempting to intimidate your opponent.
Make an Intimidation check against their Wisdom DC, on a success the target is frightened until the end of its next turn.
Bonus Action: If you have struck a creature with a melee weapon attack or unarmed strike, you can use Intimidate against them as a Bonus Action.
Distract (range: 30 ft)
You call out, throw objects, whirl scarves, or make some other visual or auditory distraction to obscure your intentions.
Make a Performance check against their Intelligence DC, on a success the next attack made against the target is at Advantage as long as it happens before the start of the target's turn, and they have Disadvantage on the first attack they make on their turn.
Soothe (range: 15 ft)
You offer food, make soothing noises, or gesture/act friendly and non-threatening to manipulate an enemy into not attacking you.
Make a Persuasion check against their Wisdom DC, on a success the target is charmed by you until it takes damage from any source.
Bonus Action: If you use your Action to restore hit points to yourself or another creature you can use Soothe as a Bonus Action.
Fool (range: 15 ft)
You move quickly and unpredictably, swing cloaks, throw objects, or verbally trick an opponent into not knowing where or whom to strike.
Make a Deception check or a Stealth check against their Wisdom DC, on a success the next attack the creature makes targets a random creature within range.
Bonus Action: If you use your Action to cast a spell of the Illusion school, you can use Fool as a Bonus Action.
Dodge Roll (range: 30 ft)
You duck and dodge around or dart through the legs your opponent throwing them off balance while protecting yourself from their strikes.
Make an Acrobatics check against their Dexterity DC, on a success the target has disadvantage on attacks that target you and you have advantage on saving throws imposed by the target.
Bonus Action: If you used your Action to Disengage or Attack using only finesse weapons, you can use Dodge Roll as a Bonus Action.
Shove (range: 5 ft)
You physically push, trip, knock over, or otherwise shove a creature.
Make an Athletics check against their Strength DC, on a success you can move the target up to 5 ft in a direction of your choice or knock it prone.
Bonus Action: If you hit the target with a melee attack using Strength, you can use Shove against them as a Bonus Action.
Sabotage (range: 5ft)
You tangle up the clothing or weapon of the target delaying their ability to strike, or place objects or manipulate the terrain to delay them.
Make a Sleight of Hand check against their Dexterity DC, on a success their movement speed is reduced by half until the end of their next turn.
Bonus Action: If you have a free hand, you can use Sabotage as a Bonus Action.
Disgust (range: 15 ft)
You present a smelly substance, or throw a toxin or irritant - such as salt, hot peppers, nettles, stinging insects etc.. into the face of your enemy causing them to be momentarily distracted by its unpleasantness.
Make a Survival check against their Constitution DC, on a success they have the poisoned condition until the end of their next turn.
Intuit (range: 30 ft)
You carefully examine the behaviour of your opponent to predict their next move.
Make an Insight check against their Charisma DC, on a success you can use your reaction during the target's turn to Attack (1 attack only) the target, Dodge(benefits last only for this turn), or Dash.
Bonus Action: If you cause a creature to make a saving throw and they fail, you can use Intuit against them as a Bonus Action.
Command (range: 30 ft)
You alter your behaviour, posture, and positioning to trick, command, or encourage your enemy into moving where you want them to go.
Make an Animal Handling check against a non-humanoid target's Charisma DC, on a success the target must use their movement to move to a location of your choice during their next turn. The target will not move to/through obviously hazardous terrain.
Bonus Action: If you struck the target with a weapon attack, you can use Command against them as a Bonus Action.
Awe (range: 30 ft)
You create arcane flourishes or evoke a show of your faith to impress and enemy causing them to momentarily pause.
Make an Arcana check or a Religion check against the target's Intelligence DC, on a success the target cannot use reactions until the start of their next turn. Creatures that are immune to being Charmed are immune to this effect.
Bonus Action: If you used your Action to cast a spell, you can use Awe as a Bonus Action.
Strategize (range: 30 ft)
You recall your knowledge of strategy, tactics, monster abilities, or physiology to spot your opponents weaknesses.
Make a History, Nature, Medicine or Investigation check against the target's Charisma DC, on a success the target takes 2 additional damage each time it is dealt damage before the end of its next turn.
I don't like the way these abilities can be used against so many creature types. Aweing an Ooze or Commanding a Dragon simply doesn't make sense. And what is Disgust? Flavor text would be pretty nice.
Well spells can be used against pretty much any creature type, so to make martial options equivalent they have to be similarly broad. I added for Awe that the target cannot be immune to being charmed since it was intened as a minor charm-like effect. I added some flavour text as well.
Now we can see that there are hundreds of ways to create techniques, and that they can be ranked by power level. What is still missing is the core mechanic needed to turn them into an actual class.
With vanilla D&D, this is impossible, because succeeding on a skill check by 1 or by 10 usually changes nothing—the game is fundamentally binary: success or failure. So we need to borrow from other game systems and create techniques that rely on degrees of success.
The solution is simple: techniques should require margins of success. Then, the class gains shared abilities that help it reach higher DCs in order to unlock more advanced techniques.
This solves several problems at once. The skill roll itself becomes the limiting factor on power, rather than arbitrary “X uses per rest” mechanics. No artificial expertise points or spell slots are needed.
The 2 techniques from level 3 can be improved 3...20 or you can get new ones.
Still dnd. No exploding die, etc. Now you can keep the other levels for the archetypes techniques!
so... you can also rewrite level 1 as
Tactical insight
When you make a successful Intelligence-, Wisdom-, or Charisma-based skill check related to a creature you can see, the DM reveals information about that creature based on the associated skill category (such as its nature, capabilities, or weaknesses).
(or my 1st version)
When you deal damage to a creature within 1 minute after successfully identifying it with a relevant skill check, you deal an extra 1d4 damage. For every 5 points by which you exceed the DC of a technique skill check, you gain 1 raise (or momentum, or whatever else). Any raise change the bonus by one level 91d4 to d6, d6 to d8, etc).
level 2: “Focused Execution”
When you make a technique skill check, you can declare focus before rolling. If you do:You cannot gain advantage from other sources on this roll But you treat your margin of success as 2 higher for the purpose of gaining Raises. At level 5, 3 higher. 11, 4 higher.
(to get a bonus if you are solo. The max is 4 because of the cleric spell and because we should not be too strong solo).
Level 5 — Skilled Precision
When you make a skill check for a technique, you can roll an additional die and add it to the result. The die is a d4. This die becomes a d6 at 11th level and a d8 at 17th level.
In addition, when you fail a technique skill check, you can use your reaction to treat the d20 roll as a 10. You must use this feature before the DM announces the result of the check.
Level 6 — Convert Momentum
When you succeed on a technique skill check but exceed the DC by 4 or less, you still gain 1 Raise.
Level 7 — Press the Advantage
When you make a technique skill check with advantage and succeed, you gain 1 additional Raise.
Level 9 — Exploit Expertise
Once on each of your turns, when you make a successful technique skill check, you can add your Expertise bonus to the margin of success.
Level 10 — Focused Mastery
When you or a creature assisting you rolls a die to affect one of your technique skill checks, you can reroll results of 1 on those dice.
At 14th level, you can reroll results of 1 or 2.
At 17th level, you can reroll results of 1, 2, or 3.
At 20th level, you can reroll results of 1, 2, 3, or 4.
You must use the new roll.
Level 11 — Heroic Surge
When you roll a natural 20 on a technique skill check, or when a creature assisting you causes a technique skill check to use a natural 20, you gain 2 additional Raises.
Beginning at 16th level, whenever a die granted by another creature or external effect rolls its maximum value on a technique skill check, you gain 1 additional Raise.
Level 13 — Read the Opening
When you make a technique against a creature that is prone, restrained, frightened, charmed, or distracted, you gain 1 additional Raise.
Level 14 — Impossible Standards
Once on each of your turns, when you would gain no Raises from a successful technique skill check, you gain 1 Raise instead.
Level 15 — Perfect Execution
Once per short or long rest, when you make a technique skill check, you can treat the d20 roll as a natural 20.
Level 17 — Overflowing Skill
The maximum number of Raises you can gain from a single technique increases from 3 to 5.
In addition, your techniques can now produce legendary effects, such as briefly stunning, paralyzing, or otherwise overwhelming a target. The exact effects are determined by the technique used.
Level 18 — Reflexive Expertise
When you fail a technique skill check, you can choose to succeed instead and gain 1 Raise.
Once you use this feature, you cannot use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
Level 20 — Legendary Skill
When you make a technique skill check, you treat any d20 roll lower than 15 as a 15.
Alternatively, whenever you gain Raises from a technique skill check, you gain twice that number of Raises instead.
1st build
We can have the same two techniques from level 3 that improve as you gain levels.
Example: Acrobatics technique (level 3): move without provoking opportunity attacks (DC 15)
1 Momentum: gain advantage on your next attack after landing from a 1.5m fall or jump
2 Momentum: gain advantage, and the enemy suffers disadvantage until the start of your next turn
3 Momentum (requires a result of 30): target is stunned on a failed saving throw
5 Momentum (requires a result of 35, must be carefully calibrated): target is automatically stunned on a successful attack roll
So, I see 3 archetypes: athlete, stealther and acrobat, since they are the 3 physical skills. Way easier to manage.
It means you must take ofne of these all level 1 or a 'magical' rule of changing a skill for one of these at level 3 (it is possible now with the new flexible rule to do such a thing).
core: d8 hit dice
simple weapons, medium armor
3 skills, one of thse must be athletics, stealth or abrobatics