The only way I know of to avoid long rests indefinitely without greater restoration available in a way that doesn't take long rests to recover - and right now the only way I think we have is from a Warlock slot, but it's possible some future subclass will provide another method - is the Tasha's Deft Explorer rule for Rangers at L10. I've seen that same L10 benefit pitched as a way to fix Berserkers, but that would be homebrew.
I'm not sure how you can plausibly read "whenever you end a 24-hour period without finishing a long rest" and conclude that it's not actually talking about long rests. Optional rule, certainly, but one which is not particularly ambiguous about what it's saying: a character that doesn't long rest risks exhaustion.
The rule definitely talks about long rests. But it has a pretty important sentence before it: "If you want to account for the effects of sleep deprivation on characters and creatures, use these rules".
So the optional rule should only be used when you are attempting to apply the consequences of sleep deprivation to a character. If you aren't applying consequences of sleep deprivation to a particular character, you don't use the optional rule for them.
I makes me sad that the original poster asked "let me know if I am correct", and when they were answered, they didn't come back to tell us they appreciated our feedback. How hard can it be to have the simple courtesy to say "Thank you" at the very least? Most people do that at least.
I makes me sad that the original poster asked "let me know if I am correct", and when they were answered, they didn't come back to tell us they appreciated our feedback. How hard can it be to have the simple courtesy to say "Thank you" at the very least? Most people do that at least.
1 day. That's all you give someone to log in and thank you for your answer?
I suppose it depends, it takes all of what, 10 minutes to log in, and read the entire thread? It's only a day's worth after all, and then hit the little up arrow... A post after that might be nice as well.
Don't you like to be thanked? I know I do. I've given out 220 little pokes on that up arrow myself. Not all that many, but I do try.
The OP has *one* post total. This is not where they normally spend their time.
Not only do they not habitually check the forums, it's also a week day, which means there is a very good possibility that they are either attending classes, or working, which reduces their "responsible slacking window" to a few hours a day, which may instead be used for family time, or home maintainence.
It's also entirely possible that they simply forgot they posted the question, and/or talked it out with their actual D&D party, rendering this thread irrelevant.
72 hours is a good courtesy window.
1 week typically represents a full cycle. (Tuesdays may be their "day off".)
Owes? Absolutely not. I would dream of suggesting that someone owes me or anyone else anything really. My point is that it's a simple courtesy to say "thank you" in some way, and it only takes a few minutes do do it. I admit, I probably overstated how important that is. That's probably why I've only been thanked myself just over 450 times, in just touch over 1300 posts.
It's also worth noting that the "Thanks" button doesn't even show up on mobile when in portrait mode. A lot of people are totally oblivious to the feature.
A short rest is "A period of downtime at least 1 hour long," and a long rest is "A period of downtime at least 8 hours long."
For example, if you take 3 hours of downtime, it is a short rest. Not 3 short rests, 1 short rest. If you take 9 hours of downtime, it is a long rest. Not 9 short rests, not a long rest and short rest, it is 1 long rest. So if you spend 8 or more hours in downtime (Which the rest of your party is guaranteed to do), then you will take a long rest. It's not really a choice.
EDIT: Guys calm down. We're all in this together, there isn't a requirement to thank people.
A short rest is "A period of downtime at least 1 hour long," and a long rest is "A period of downtime at least 8 hours long."
For example, if you take 3 hours of downtime, it is a short rest. Not 3 short rests, 1 short rest. If you take 9 hours of downtime, it is a long rest. Not 9 short rests, not a long rest and short rest, it is 1 long rest. So if you spend 8 or more hours in downtime (Which the rest of your party is guaranteed to do), then you will take a long rest. It's not really a choice.
EDIT: Guys calm down. We're all in this together, there isn't a requirement to thank people.
The idea of coffee lock, is that while your party is taking 8 hours of downtime, you take 1 hour of downtime, do some non-downtime things for a few minutes, take another hour of downtime, do more non-downtime things for a few minutes, repeat until the party is done. No one can say you took 1 rest because you broke it up with heavy activity.
RAW this can work (which as far as I'm concerned is the point of this forum), and more importantly it DOES works in AL (which does not use optional sleep deprivation rules). Though I'll admit it isn't fun (for everyone else), and rather than slap a creature that doesn't need sleep with sleep deprivation for taking 8 hours of rests non-consecutively, just set a minimum period between short rests (1-3 hours) or a maximum number of short rests between long rests (~4).
Where’s the RAW language that “some non-downtime things” short of adventuring (splitting the party) stop a short rest? Their short rest needs to include at least one hour of “nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds”… that doesn’t mean anything else that happens STOPS the attempted rest, just that to get its benefit, you need an hour of that stuff.
Am I the only one who reads "you no longer need to sleep" as not suffering from "the effects of sleep deprivation on characters and creatures,"?
Because two people have now suggested that if a creature that doesn't need to sleep goes 24 hours without a long rest, it has to save against sleep deprivation.
That's the rule as it is written, stupid or not. A better rule would have the same effect but not tie it to sleep deprivation, instead requiring an extended period of relaxation every day which those who need to sleep could take while sleeping. Others could take other actions, as long as they didn't have to be alert and ready to respond to threats. (so still limited in the amount of time you can spend on watch during your rest)
Also, elves (among others) don't need to sleep, ever. Should they also be able to avoid the exhaustion of not taking a long rest?
Also, elves (among others) don't need to sleep, ever. Should they also be able to avoid the exhaustion of not taking a long rest?
Elves have an alternative to sleep that functions for them what sleep does to humans. That being the case, I'd think they'd still need to long rest (it just takes 4 hours). But I could see an argument for them not to: "don't need sleep = don't need sleep."
Warforged and reborn can long rest faster than other races, but nothing indicates they need to (no alternatives that serve the same function).
Also, elves (among others) don't need to sleep, ever. Should they also be able to avoid the exhaustion of not taking a long rest?
Elves have an alternative to sleep that functions for them what sleep does to humans. That being the case, I'd think they'd still need to long rest (it just takes 4 hours). But I could see an argument for them not to: "don't need sleep = don't need sleep."
Warforged and reborn can long rest faster than other races, but nothing indicates they need to (no alternatives that serve the same function).
A minor point, but warforged can't long rest faster than anybody else. The six hours that humans et al. spend sleeping, they spend in an inert but conscious state, but they still need the whole eight hours (as opposed to elves and reborn, for whom four hours explicitly counts as eight hours).
Also, elves (among others) don't need to sleep, ever. Should they also be able to avoid the exhaustion of not taking a long rest?
Elves have an alternative to sleep that functions for them what sleep does to humans. That being the case, I'd think they'd still need to long rest (it just takes 4 hours). But I could see an argument for them not to: "don't need sleep = don't need sleep."
Warforged and reborn can long rest faster than other races, but nothing indicates they need to (no alternatives that serve the same function).
Exactly right. It is specified in the rules that the Elves are able to shorten their long rest time. With the no need to sleep features it does not specify that a long rest is shorter or not needed.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Also, elves (among others) don't need to sleep, ever. Should they also be able to avoid the exhaustion of not taking a long rest?
Elves have an alternative to sleep that functions for them what sleep does to humans. That being the case, I'd think they'd still need to long rest (it just takes 4 hours). But I could see an argument for them not to: "don't need sleep = don't need sleep."
Warforged and reborn can long rest faster than other races, but nothing indicates they need to (no alternatives that serve the same function).
Exactly right. It is specified in the rules that the Elves are able to shorten their long rest time. With the no need to sleep features it does not specify that a long rest is shorter or not needed.
Hey guys
No, elves are not able to finish long rests after 4 hours. I know it says that in *******. I don't know if that's an errata or something, but it's been clarified in Sage Advice, so I don't think it is
Look up for the Racial Features section. They gain the same benefits of human sleep, but a long rest does not consist necessarely of sleeping. It just means that elves, instead of having to sleep for 8 houres a day like us normal humans, just trance for 4, then get to spend the rest of their long rest doing whatever. But it can still be interupted, and they only get the benefit after all 8 hours of the long rest have passed
Again, problematically, that section of XGtE goes back and forth on "sleep" and "long rest" about 5 times, using them almost interchangeably.
But Aspect of the moon makes it pretty clear that you still need long rests. I thought there was at least some idea that the intent of rests are that they are modal: the party must choose to take a short or a long rest, you don't automatically gain the benefits of one after the correct amount of down time.
Yes, as I recall the choice is made at the end of the activity. So if a regular human goes to sleep, intending to take a long rest, and has their long rest interrupted 2 hours later, they can choose to count the time they did sleep as a short rest.
You mean at the end of the *inactivity lol
And I don't think it is specified in the rules for rests. I remember that JC has made a tweet about it. I think he said that a DM can make the call whether an interupted long rest can count as a short rest or just as lost time. But definately not a choice made by the players
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The only way I know of to avoid long rests indefinitely without greater restoration available in a way that doesn't take long rests to recover - and right now the only way I think we have is from a Warlock slot, but it's possible some future subclass will provide another method - is the Tasha's Deft Explorer rule for Rangers at L10. I've seen that same L10 benefit pitched as a way to fix Berserkers, but that would be homebrew.
The rule definitely talks about long rests. But it has a pretty important sentence before it: "If you want to account for the effects of sleep deprivation on characters and creatures, use these rules".
So the optional rule should only be used when you are attempting to apply the consequences of sleep deprivation to a character. If you aren't applying consequences of sleep deprivation to a particular character, you don't use the optional rule for them.
... And the sentence right before that one talks about both, seemingly interchangeably.
I makes me sad that the original poster asked "let me know if I am correct", and when they were answered, they didn't come back to tell us they appreciated our feedback. How hard can it be to have the simple courtesy to say "Thank you" at the very least? Most people do that at least.
<Insert clever signature here>
1 day. That's all you give someone to log in and thank you for your answer?
I suppose it depends, it takes all of what, 10 minutes to log in, and read the entire thread? It's only a day's worth after all, and then hit the little up arrow... A post after that might be nice as well.
Don't you like to be thanked? I know I do. I've given out 220 little pokes on that up arrow myself. Not all that many, but I do try.
<Insert clever signature here>
The OP has *one* post total. This is not where they normally spend their time.
Not only do they not habitually check the forums, it's also a week day, which means there is a very good possibility that they are either attending classes, or working, which reduces their "responsible slacking window" to a few hours a day, which may instead be used for family time, or home maintainence.
It's also entirely possible that they simply forgot they posted the question, and/or talked it out with their actual D&D party, rendering this thread irrelevant.
72 hours is a good courtesy window.
1 week typically represents a full cycle. (Tuesdays may be their "day off".)
Also, nobody owes us thanks for us being nerds and arguing with each other 🤓
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Owes? Absolutely not. I would dream of suggesting that someone owes me or anyone else anything really. My point is that it's a simple courtesy to say "thank you" in some way, and it only takes a few minutes do do it. I admit, I probably overstated how important that is. That's probably why I've only been thanked myself just over 450 times, in just touch over 1300 posts.
<Insert clever signature here>
It's also worth noting that the "Thanks" button doesn't even show up on mobile when in portrait mode. A lot of people are totally oblivious to the feature.
A short rest is "A period of downtime at least 1 hour long," and a long rest is "A period of downtime at least 8 hours long."
For example, if you take 3 hours of downtime, it is a short rest. Not 3 short rests, 1 short rest. If you take 9 hours of downtime, it is a long rest. Not 9 short rests, not a long rest and short rest, it is 1 long rest. So if you spend 8 or more hours in downtime (Which the rest of your party is guaranteed to do), then you will take a long rest. It's not really a choice.
EDIT: Guys calm down. We're all in this together, there isn't a requirement to thank people.
The idea of coffee lock, is that while your party is taking 8 hours of downtime, you take 1 hour of downtime, do some non-downtime things for a few minutes, take another hour of downtime, do more non-downtime things for a few minutes, repeat until the party is done. No one can say you took 1 rest because you broke it up with heavy activity.
RAW this can work (which as far as I'm concerned is the point of this forum), and more importantly it DOES works in AL (which does not use optional sleep deprivation rules). Though I'll admit it isn't fun (for everyone else), and rather than slap a creature that doesn't need sleep with sleep deprivation for taking 8 hours of rests non-consecutively, just set a minimum period between short rests (1-3 hours) or a maximum number of short rests between long rests (~4).
Where’s the RAW language that “some non-downtime things” short of adventuring (splitting the party) stop a short rest? Their short rest needs to include at least one hour of “nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds”… that doesn’t mean anything else that happens STOPS the attempted rest, just that to get its benefit, you need an hour of that stuff.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
That's the rule as it is written, stupid or not. A better rule would have the same effect but not tie it to sleep deprivation, instead requiring an extended period of relaxation every day which those who need to sleep could take while sleeping. Others could take other actions, as long as they didn't have to be alert and ready to respond to threats. (so still limited in the amount of time you can spend on watch during your rest)
Also, elves (among others) don't need to sleep, ever. Should they also be able to avoid the exhaustion of not taking a long rest?
Elves have an alternative to sleep that functions for them what sleep does to humans. That being the case, I'd think they'd still need to long rest (it just takes 4 hours). But I could see an argument for them not to: "don't need sleep = don't need sleep."
Warforged and reborn can long rest faster than other races, but nothing indicates they need to (no alternatives that serve the same function).
A minor point, but warforged can't long rest faster than anybody else. The six hours that humans et al. spend sleeping, they spend in an inert but conscious state, but they still need the whole eight hours (as opposed to elves and reborn, for whom four hours explicitly counts as eight hours).
I wouldn’t call it a minor point. It really reinforces that elves aren’t (that) special, and it truly is ONLY reborn that have shorter long rests.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Exactly right. It is specified in the rules that the Elves are able to shorten their long rest time. With the no need to sleep features it does not specify that a long rest is shorter or not needed.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Hey guys
No, elves are not able to finish long rests after 4 hours. I know it says that in *******. I don't know if that's an errata or something, but it's been clarified in Sage Advice, so I don't think it is
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-september-2015
Look up for the Racial Features section. They gain the same benefits of human sleep, but a long rest does not consist necessarely of sleeping. It just means that elves, instead of having to sleep for 8 houres a day like us normal humans, just trance for 4, then get to spend the rest of their long rest doing whatever. But it can still be interupted, and they only get the benefit after all 8 hours of the long rest have passed
You mean at the end of the *inactivity lol
And I don't think it is specified in the rules for rests. I remember that JC has made a tweet about it. I think he said that a DM can make the call whether an interupted long rest can count as a short rest or just as lost time. But definately not a choice made by the players