So, haste allows an extra action per turn, but in the text it also says only one extra attack. So with characters with, say 3 attacks per normal action...do we interpret this as only ONE extra strike...or three per round. Six attacks for my already powerful fighter classes seems very OP to me!
And no spells for the extra Haste action. But Action Surge will allow a spell.
Casting a cantrip that allows for a single weapon attack seems, to me, to fit the restrictions of haste extra action, but only if you're a L6+ bladesinger.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
And no spells for the extra Haste action. But Action Surge will allow a spell.
Casting a cantrip that allows for a single weapon attack seems, to me, to fit the restrictions of haste extra action, but only if you're a L6+ bladesinger.
Bladesinger expressly says you can trade in a cantrip for a single weapon attack as part of the Extra attack. But haste appears to me to be slightly more specific when it says "one weapon attack only". It expressly only applies to extra attack, which is forbidden by Haste. It also clearly says "one attack" not both of your extra attacks implying it lets you do one such cantrip per round, which you should have already done as part of your normal action. Haste is as adding yet more attacks on top of that Extra attack, it violates both the RAW and RAI to allow someone to cast a cantrip in the Hasted action.
That said, I can see an argument to ignore the RAW and RAI and let someone do it anyway, especially if they used their normal action to cast a spell rather than take 2 attacks.
And no spells for the extra Haste action. But Action Surge will allow a spell.
Casting a cantrip that allows for a single weapon attack seems, to me, to fit the restrictions of haste extra action, but only if you're a L6+ bladesinger.
Bladesinger expressly says you can trade in a cantrip for a single weapon attack as part of the Extra attack. But haste appears to me to be slightly more specific when it says "one weapon attack only". It expressly only applies to extra attack, which is forbidden by Haste. It also clearly says "one attack" not both of your extra attacks implying it lets you do one such cantrip per round, which you should have already done as part of your normal action. Haste is as adding yet more attacks on top of that Extra attack, it violates both the RAW and RAI to allow someone to cast a cantrip in the Hasted action.
That said, I can see an argument to ignore the RAW and RAI and let someone do it anyway, especially if they used their normal action to cast a spell rather than take 2 attacks.
If you use the action Haste grants you, to take the Attack action, and then sub your attack out for a Booming Blade. You will have made "one weapon attack only". Not 2, not, 3, not4 or more. Just one weapon attack only. Very literally it meets the requirements of Haste. RAW for sure.
RAI? Probably. The Bladesinger effectively can cast a cantrip with the same energy/effort/timing as they could make a single weapon attack. That's the whole point of their ability. Intent-wise seems to fit. But I've never heard the creators express anything about their intent for this interaction so your guess is as good as mine.
But I disagree that "haste is more attacks on top of extra attack". That's not how the spell functions at all. The spell grants you a whole 2nd action. You're not able to use this action on anything, no, but it is a whole action. One of those options is the Attack action, but if you use he attack action you are limited to just a single attack.
And, like I said, if you booming blade you've only made a single attack.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I know you know the difference between a spell and a weapon attack. A spell that includes a weapon attack is not "one weapon attack only," it is "one weapon attack as part of a spell." Much more than "only."
And no spells for the extra Haste action. But Action Surge will allow a spell.
Casting a cantrip that allows for a single weapon attack seems, to me, to fit the restrictions of haste extra action, but only if you're a L6+ bladesinger.
RAW this does not work, as the cantrip bit for bladesinger is implicit with only working when you are using your extra attack feature. which Haste is not part of
thus casting this spell, even if its a cantrip, is the cast a spell action, which cannot be done via a hasted action
I know you know the difference between a spell and a weapon attack. A spell that includes a weapon attack is not "one weapon attack only," it is "one weapon attack as part of a spell." Much more than "only."
There is not more than one weapon attack. There is exactly one.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
And no spells for the extra Haste action. But Action Surge will allow a spell.
Casting a cantrip that allows for a single weapon attack seems, to me, to fit the restrictions of haste extra action, but only if you're a L6+ bladesinger.
RAW this does not work, as the cantrip bit for bladesinger is implicit with only working when you are using your extra attack feature. which Haste is not part of
thus casting this spell, even if its a cantrip, is the cast a spell action, which cannot be done via a hasted action
You do not need to make two attack with your attack action for you to be allowed to substitute one of them with a cantrip. Even taking aside the haste issue for a moment... you could intend to attack twice when you take the attack action, and sub the 1st attack in for a cantrip, which ends up kills the enemy. You needn't complete the 2nd attack at their corpse, or the ground, or at anything at all.
The substitution of a cantrip for an attack, and the ability to make an extra attack when you take the attack action, both come from the same ability but needn't both be used simultaneously, unless you want to.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I know you know the difference between a spell and a weapon attack. A spell that includes a weapon attack is not "one weapon attack only," it is "one weapon attack as part of a spell." Much more than "only."
There is not more than one weapon attack. There is exactly one.
Unfortunately "Cast a Spell" is not in the list of options which is allowed by the Haste spell for the additional Action, so you can't cast Booming Blade.
Unfortunately "Cast a Spell" is not in the list of options which is allowed by the Haste spell for the additional Action, so you can't cast Booming Blade.
Good thing he isn't proposing to take the Cast a Spell action then.
I know you know the difference between a spell and a weapon attack. A spell that includes a weapon attack is not "one weapon attack only," it is "one weapon attack as part of a spell." Much more than "only."
There is not more than one weapon attack. There is exactly one.
There is indeed more than one weapon attack. There’s one weapon attack and also the rest of the spell. If a feature says you can take a drink (one water only) you don’t get to drink one water and also some orange juice. This is extremely obvious.
Didn't we already have a thread describing the intent and actual wording of this exact topic (with the exact user at the center)? Has something in the wording changed in the interim? Doesn't the spell still say "the Attack (one weapon attack only)"? What's changed? Has there been errata or a Sage Advice? Did something make one weapon attack only include something other than only one weapon attack?
So, haste allows an extra action per turn, but in the text it also says only one extra attack. So with characters with, say 3 attacks per normal action...do we interpret this as only ONE extra strike...or three per round. Six attacks for my already powerful fighter classes seems very OP to me!
We've had this come up before, but I see posts above this one getting into the old arguments, so I want to cut to the chase and give you a full briefing. The extra action, when used to Attack, is "one weapon attack only". Grammatically, this has multiple valid interpretations, and while some are more popular than others, it's inherently up to your DM to choose. Here are the grammatically valid options:
"One weapon attack only" means any Action containing exactly 1 weapon attack is permitted. This means if you use the Attack action and make 0 weapon attacks or 2 or more weapon attacks you have cheated, but provided you have made 1, you can do anything else with it. This means, as an example, a Beast Master Ranger can use the Haste Attack action to make 1 weapon attack and give an order to their Beast.
Despite being what "one weapon attack only" almost always means in English (e.g. when you order a bouquet of flowers, "one carnation only" means any bouquet containing exactly one carnation - other flowers may be present or not), this is particularly powerful, and hence is less popular on this forum.
Because it is the general definition of "X (Y only)", it's very easy to generate additional examples by googling any statement in English using this structure that has a known meaning. For example, a street sign that says "right turn only" means this - driving in the lane you're in means you have to turn right, but provided you do so, anything else you do within the normal rules of driving is allowed.
"One weapon attack only" means nothing other than 1 weapon attack can happen due to that Attack action. This means both the Attack action must generate exactly 1 weapon attack and that it can't do anything else - e.g. our Beast Master Ranger can't also give a beast order.
This is particularly weak but particularly popular on this forum. It is 100% grammatically valid. Several posts above this one are arguing for it.
Using our right turn only sign example above, if this was the general definition of the structure, a "right turn only" sign would ban you from turning your windshield wipers on while turning, as that is not part of a right turn.
To help elucidate the above two options, it's worth noting that there is no game rule requiring that all attacks be exactly one of a weapon attack or a spell attack. Because there is a widespread belief that this rule exists, in order to help keep this thread on-topic, I'm going to explicitly point out that it doesn't matter if the rule exists or not, because if you think it exists, you can consider my examples below to be hypothetical, as if the rule didn't exist.
Grapple is an attack but because it isn't made with a weapon or unarmed strike, it's not a weapon attack, and it certainly isn't a spell attack. This means any Hasted creature with Extra Attack has the necessaries to make 1 weapon attack and 1 non-weapon attack, and hence the question is much more general than our Beast Master Ranger.
Magic Stone's stone, fired from a sling, satisfies the definitions of both weapon attack (you're making an attack with a weapon) and spell attack (the spell's text says it's a spell attack, so there's no possible doubt). This means if you attempt to use your Haste Attack to fire said stone from said sling, while you are attempting one weapon attack, you are also attempting one spell attack, which ties into the above question directly - under interpretation 1 above this is fine (you're not making 0 or 2+ weapon attacks, so it's legal), but under 2 it is not (while you are making 1 weapon attack, you are also doing something which is not making 1 weapon attack, namely 1 spell attack). This is the same concern you see being discussed above about Booming Blade when a Bladesinger casts it using their attack action, in which the character is attempting to make exactly 1 weapon attack but other things are also happening.
The game is chock full of things a character can do that isn't 1 weapon attack as part of their Attack action because it modifies what the 1 weapon attack does - examples include Paladin Smite and Horizon Walker teleport. If you use interpretation 2 above, you also need some way to reason about which, if any, of these things to allow. For example, there is no observable difference between Horizon Walker teleport and Booming Blade in terms of guaranteeing you've made 1 weapon attack and no other attacks, weapon or not, but you can see people in this very thread insisting the latter shouldn't be allowed via Haste.
I think that about covers it. Recapping, both interpretations 1 and 2 are grammatically valid, and both have consequences (1 is much more powerful, while 2 easily gets bogged down in figuring out what you do and don't want to allow in terms of adding on to the 1 weapon attack).
Qundraco has over-analyzed the text, but yes. To piggy back on Saga's comment, you could imagine that "One drink (water only)" means that orange juice is fine because it does contain water. That doesn't make it the conclusion that any writer would have expected or any reader *should* come to.
And no spells for the extra Haste action. But Action Surge will allow a spell.
Casting a cantrip that allows for a single weapon attack seems, to me, to fit the restrictions of haste extra action, but only if you're a L6+ bladesinger.
RAW this does not work, as the cantrip bit for bladesinger is implicit with only working when you are using your extra attack feature. which Haste is not part of
thus casting this spell, even if its a cantrip, is the cast a spell action, which cannot be done via a hasted action
You do not need to make two attack with your attack action for you to be allowed to substitute one of them with a cantrip. Even taking aside the haste issue for a moment... you could intend to attack twice when you take the attack action, and sub the 1st attack in for a cantrip, which ends up kills the enemy. You needn't complete the 2nd attack at their corpse, or the ground, or at anything at all.
The substitution of a cantrip for an attack, and the ability to make an extra attack when you take the attack action, both come from the same ability but needn't both be used simultaneously, unless you want to.
and no, but you need to be able to make that second attack to use it. Meaning yes that bladesinger isnt gonna hit the ground, but he needs to be able to hit the ground anyways if he wants to
Back to the question in detail though, No, this doesnt work because again its only one weapon attack, NOT one weapon attack and a spell cast with it, and since you cannot make an extra attack at all with haste, your bladesinger ability isnt activated or being able to be used so you cannot use it to cast a cantrip, youd need to cast a spell action and you cannot with haste
Qundraco has over-analyzed the text, but yes. To piggy back on Saga's comment, you could imagine that "One drink (water only)" means that orange juice is fine because it does contain water. That doesn't make it the conclusion that any writer would have expected or any reader *should* come to.
A more exact analogy would be to take a Drink action (One glass only). Then most default Drink actions involve drinking glasses of water but the Bladedrinker can substitute a glass of milk for a glass of water.
If he drank a single glass of milk he is still complying with the restriction.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
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So, haste allows an extra action per turn, but in the text it also says only one extra attack. So with characters with, say 3 attacks per normal action...do we interpret this as only ONE extra strike...or three per round. Six attacks for my already powerful fighter classes seems very OP to me!
Just one attack.
Ok, thanks!
And no spells for the extra Haste action. But Action Surge will allow a spell.
Ok, righto! Yea, action surge is different.
Casting a cantrip that allows for a single weapon attack seems, to me, to fit the restrictions of haste extra action, but only if you're a L6+ bladesinger.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Bladesinger expressly says you can trade in a cantrip for a single weapon attack as part of the Extra attack. But haste appears to me to be slightly more specific when it says "one weapon attack only". It expressly only applies to extra attack, which is forbidden by Haste. It also clearly says "one attack" not both of your extra attacks implying it lets you do one such cantrip per round, which you should have already done as part of your normal action. Haste is as adding yet more attacks on top of that Extra attack, it violates both the RAW and RAI to allow someone to cast a cantrip in the Hasted action.
That said, I can see an argument to ignore the RAW and RAI and let someone do it anyway, especially if they used their normal action to cast a spell rather than take 2 attacks.
If you use the action Haste grants you, to take the Attack action, and then sub your attack out for a Booming Blade. You will have made "one weapon attack only". Not 2, not, 3, not4 or more. Just one weapon attack only. Very literally it meets the requirements of Haste. RAW for sure.
RAI? Probably. The Bladesinger effectively can cast a cantrip with the same energy/effort/timing as they could make a single weapon attack. That's the whole point of their ability. Intent-wise seems to fit. But I've never heard the creators express anything about their intent for this interaction so your guess is as good as mine.
But I disagree that "haste is more attacks on top of extra attack". That's not how the spell functions at all. The spell grants you a whole 2nd action. You're not able to use this action on anything, no, but it is a whole action. One of those options is the Attack action, but if you use he attack action you are limited to just a single attack.
And, like I said, if you booming blade you've only made a single attack.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I know you know the difference between a spell and a weapon attack. A spell that includes a weapon attack is not "one weapon attack only," it is "one weapon attack as part of a spell." Much more than "only."
RAW this does not work, as the cantrip bit for bladesinger is implicit with only working when you are using your extra attack feature. which Haste is not part of
thus casting this spell, even if its a cantrip, is the cast a spell action, which cannot be done via a hasted action
There is not more than one weapon attack. There is exactly one.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You do not need to make two attack with your attack action for you to be allowed to substitute one of them with a cantrip. Even taking aside the haste issue for a moment... you could intend to attack twice when you take the attack action, and sub the 1st attack in for a cantrip, which ends up kills the enemy. You needn't complete the 2nd attack at their corpse, or the ground, or at anything at all.
The substitution of a cantrip for an attack, and the ability to make an extra attack when you take the attack action, both come from the same ability but needn't both be used simultaneously, unless you want to.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Unfortunately "Cast a Spell" is not in the list of options which is allowed by the Haste spell for the additional Action, so you can't cast Booming Blade.
Good thing he isn't proposing to take the Cast a Spell action then.
There is indeed more than one weapon attack. There’s one weapon attack and also the rest of the spell. If a feature says you can take a drink (one water only) you don’t get to drink one water and also some orange juice. This is extremely obvious.
Didn't we already have a thread describing the intent and actual wording of this exact topic (with the exact user at the center)? Has something in the wording changed in the interim? Doesn't the spell still say "the Attack (one weapon attack only)"? What's changed? Has there been errata or a Sage Advice? Did something make one weapon attack only include something other than only one weapon attack?
We've had this come up before, but I see posts above this one getting into the old arguments, so I want to cut to the chase and give you a full briefing. The extra action, when used to Attack, is "one weapon attack only". Grammatically, this has multiple valid interpretations, and while some are more popular than others, it's inherently up to your DM to choose. Here are the grammatically valid options:
I think that about covers it. Recapping, both interpretations 1 and 2 are grammatically valid, and both have consequences (1 is much more powerful, while 2 easily gets bogged down in figuring out what you do and don't want to allow in terms of adding on to the 1 weapon attack).
Qundraco has over-analyzed the text, but yes. To piggy back on Saga's comment, you could imagine that "One drink (water only)" means that orange juice is fine because it does contain water. That doesn't make it the conclusion that any writer would have expected or any reader *should* come to.
and no, but you need to be able to make that second attack to use it.
Meaning yes that bladesinger isnt gonna hit the ground, but he needs to be able to hit the ground anyways if he wants to
Back to the question in detail though, No, this doesnt work because again its only one weapon attack, NOT one weapon attack and a spell cast with it, and since you cannot make an extra attack at all with haste, your bladesinger ability isnt activated or being able to be used so you cannot use it to cast a cantrip, youd need to cast a spell action and you cannot with haste
A more exact analogy would be to take a Drink action (One glass only). Then most default Drink actions involve drinking glasses of water but the Bladedrinker can substitute a glass of milk for a glass of water.
If he drank a single glass of milk he is still complying with the restriction.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.