I’ve always heard, and I swear I read it somewhere, that a paladin’s divine smite is hard capped as per the class feature. No matter if it’s a crit or normal hit you can’t exceed the defined maximum. I pointed this out on a YouTube video but someone has replied saying this isn’t true. Am I crazy? Is this false and I’ve been holding paladins at my table back? Or is it actually true and if so can anyone provide me with a source other than just quoting the cap presented in the book itself? I can’t seem to find one and I’ve scoured the internet for a while on this. I’d love to be wrong but as I’ve always known it, I’m not.
If you're referring to the provisions in the Divine Smite Feature, they exist to keep multiclasses from using 6+ slots to soup the smite up further still. Any damage die that are a part of an attack that hits critically are doubled per RAW. That means that, with a 5th level slot, appropriate target, an 11th level paladin can roll up to 14d8 on a critical hit. I suppose you could call that the cap, but it's a soft cap, not a hard one. There's no hard cap on any kind of critical hit, as far as I'm aware.
If you're referring to the provisions in the Divine Smite Feature, they exist to keep multiclasses from using 6+ slots to soup the smite up further still. Any damage die that are a part of an attack that hits critically are doubled per RAW. That means that, with a 5th level slot, appropriate target, an 11th level paladin can roll up to 14d8 on a critical hit. I suppose you could call that the cap, but it's a soft cap, not a hard one. There's no hard cap on any kind of critical hit, as far as I'm aware.
You cannot Divine Smite for 14d8 damage on a crit. Divine Smites are capped at 5d8 damage (4th level or higher spell slot), making the max crit from a Divine Smite capped at 10d8. The cap is increased by 1d8 if you hit a undead or fiend which increases the max crit against those creature types to 12d8.
If you're referring to the provisions in the Divine Smite Feature, they exist to keep multiclasses from using 6+ slots to soup the smite up further still. Any damage die that are a part of an attack that hits critically are doubled per RAW. That means that, with a 5th level slot, appropriate target, an 11th level paladin can roll up to 14d8 on a critical hit. I suppose you could call that the cap, but it's a soft cap, not a hard one. There's no hard cap on any kind of critical hit, as far as I'm aware.
You cannot Divine Smite for 14d8 damage on a crit. Divine Smites are capped at 5d8 damage (4th level or higher spell slot), making the max crit from a Divine Smite capped at 10d8. The cap is increased by 1d8 if you hit a undead or fiend which increases the max crit against those creature types to 12d8.
They specifically said an 11th level Paladin, which has the Improved Divine Smite feature where each attack automatically does an extra 1d8 radiant outside of the confines of normal Smite limits. So 5d8 from max smite + 1d8 from fiend/undead + 1d8 from Improved Divine Smite = 7d8 or 14d8 on a crit.
If you're referring to the provisions in the Divine Smite Feature, they exist to keep multiclasses from using 6+ slots to soup the smite up further still. Any damage die that are a part of an attack that hits critically are doubled per RAW. That means that, with a 5th level slot, appropriate target, an 11th level paladin can roll up to 14d8 on a critical hit. I suppose you could call that the cap, but it's a soft cap, not a hard one. There's no hard cap on any kind of critical hit, as far as I'm aware.
You cannot Divine Smite for 14d8 damage on a crit. Divine Smites are capped at 5d8 damage (4th level or higher spell slot), making the max crit from a Divine Smite capped at 10d8. The cap is increased by 1d8 if you hit a undead or fiend which increases the max crit against those creature types to 12d8.
They specifically said an 11th level Paladin, which has the Improved Divine Smite feature where each attack automatically does an extra 1d8 radiant outside of the confines of normal Smite limits. So 5d8 from max smite + 1d8 from fiend/undead + 1d8 from Improved Divine Smite = 7d8 or 14d8 on a crit.
Divine Smite and Improved Divine Smite are 2 totally different and separate features despite the similar names. Improved Divine Smite is always on and does not require spending any resources (spell slots) to trigger and therefore should not be lumped together with Divine Smite.
Also note that the person I replied to mentioned using a 5th level spell slot which apart from the fact a 11th level Paladin does not even have access to 4th level spell slots, suggests to me that they were counting on 5th level slots adding another 1d8 damage.
My bad on some of the technical details, it was late. The point being, the cap is only on the initial bonus dice pool in relation to slot level, and a crit would double the entire pool.
Yup. Crits do double all attack dmg dice, whether they are from Rogue Sneak Attack, Spirit shroud, Paladin Smite, Booming Blade, Smite spells
OR
Rogue Sneak Attack + Booming Blade + Spirit Shroud + divine smite + improved smite + thunderous smite all in one. They all offer double dice when you crit.
Also, the 14d8+ weapon damage really isn't that much to be honest. You'd have to be lvl 17. At that point a single 14d8 off-chance won't be much of a tactic. (Edit. 13th level for 4th slot, which is enough to reach the cap. 14d8 crit is better at lvl 13 obviously, but still not something to rely on, especially since you sacrifice your only lvl 4 slot. Dmg drops to 12d8 if the enemy is not an undead or fiend. )
Sure you can wait for a crit before you use the level 4 slot, but what if you never crit?
Also. I don't think I'd use my level 4 slots for smite even on a crit unless I was multiclassing for extra slots or I desperately had to land a killing blow quickly. Maybe after level 17 when lvl 4 slots increase to 3. That extra spell level is 2d8 extra crit dmg compared to a level 3 slot., which isn't a lot compared to how much more powerful lvl 4 spells are.
I'd use my lower level slots for a sustainable source of smites and use the lvl 4 slots for spells since there are other effective ways to increase per turn melee damage, but not many ways to get access to bigger spells.
Also. I don't think I'd ever use my level 5 slots for smite even on a crit. That's 2d8 extra dmg compared to level 4 slot. I'd use my lower level slots for a sustainable source of smites and use the lvl 5 and maybe even lvl 4 slots for spells since there are other effective ways to increase per turn melee damage but not many ways to get access to level 5 spells.
I'm sorry but you have made the same mistake as The_Ace_of_Rogues. Divine Smites do not scale up to 5th level spell slots. They are capped at 4th level spell slots, any spell slot you use from 4th level and above all do the same damage.
I am usually not this nitpicky but this is the Rules and Game Mechanics part of the forum and I do not wish for newer players who wander here to get wrong info.
Also. I don't think I'd ever use my level 5 slots for smite even on a crit. That's 2d8 extra dmg compared to level 4 slot. I'd use my lower level slots for a sustainable source of smites and use the lvl 5 and maybe even lvl 4 slots for spells since there are other effective ways to increase per turn melee damage but not many ways to get access to level 5 spells.
I'm sorry but you have made the same mistake as The_Ace_of_Rogues. Divine Smites do not scale up to 5th level spell slots. They are capped at 4th level spell slots, any spell slot you use from 4th level and above all do the same damage.
I am usually not this nitpicky but this is the Rules and Game Mechanics part of the forum and I do not wish for newer players who wander here to get wrong info.
You are correct! 😄 The wording doesn't mention a maximum spellslot, but instead a maximum number additional dice which is 5, so I accidentally mixed it with 5 being the maximum slot level. But it starts at 2d8 so you reach the 5d8 with a 4th level slot. Maximum crit still being 14d8 + Weapon DMG with Improved Smite and Undead/fiend bonus.
Also. I don't think I'd ever use my level 5 slots for smite even on a crit. That's 2d8 extra dmg compared to level 4 slot. I'd use my lower level slots for a sustainable source of smites and use the lvl 5 and maybe even lvl 4 slots for spells since there are other effective ways to increase per turn melee damage but not many ways to get access to level 5 spells.
I'm sorry but you have made the same mistake as The_Ace_of_Rogues. Divine Smites do not scale up to 5th level spell slots. They are capped at 4th level spell slots, any spell slot you use from 4th level and above all do the same damage.
I am usually not this nitpicky but this is the Rules and Game Mechanics part of the forum and I do not wish for newer players who wander here to get wrong info.
You are correct! 😄 The wording doesn't mention a maximum spellslot, but instead a maximum number additional dice which is 5, so I accidentally mixed it with 5 being the maximum slot level. But it starts at 2d8 so you reach the 5d8 with a 4th level slot. Maximum crit still being 14d8 + Weapon DMG with Improved Smite and Undead/fiend bonus.
Ok but wouldn't the wording stating "maximum" also apply to crits too? Given that this is a specific vs general type of question? At least in my mind that's what it appears to be and I believe that's the reasoning that I'd heard previously. Genuinely asking here.
I think the "specific" here is regarding the amount of extra dice you can get by investing a bigger slot. So the maximum limits the amount of dice to gain from slot investment, but crit rules are different rules entirely and do not fall under this particular case of specific.
Also. I don't think I'd ever use my level 5 slots for smite even on a crit. That's 2d8 extra dmg compared to level 4 slot. I'd use my lower level slots for a sustainable source of smites and use the lvl 5 and maybe even lvl 4 slots for spells since there are other effective ways to increase per turn melee damage but not many ways to get access to level 5 spells.
I'm sorry but you have made the same mistake as The_Ace_of_Rogues. Divine Smites do not scale up to 5th level spell slots. They are capped at 4th level spell slots, any spell slot you use from 4th level and above all do the same damage.
I am usually not this nitpicky but this is the Rules and Game Mechanics part of the forum and I do not wish for newer players who wander here to get wrong info.
You are correct! 😄 The wording doesn't mention a maximum spellslot, but instead a maximum number additional dice which is 5, so I accidentally mixed it with 5 being the maximum slot level. But it starts at 2d8 so you reach the 5d8 with a 4th level slot. Maximum crit still being 14d8 + Weapon DMG with Improved Smite and Undead/fiend bonus.
Ok but wouldn't the wording stating "maximum" also apply to crits too? Given that this is a specific vs general type of question? At least in my mind that's what it appears to be and I believe that's the reasoning that I'd heard previously. Genuinely asking here.
No. The wording sets the base maximum, relative to the modifiers of slot level and type of target. Criticals, in turn, affect the entire dice pool. The two calculations do not interact.
I think the "specific" here is regarding the amount of extra dice you can get by investing a bigger slot. So the maximum limits the amount of dice to gain from slot investment, but crit rules are different rules entirely and do not fall under this particular case of specific.
Correct. You can’t be paladin 2/Bard 18 and use a 9th level slot to get 10d8 divine smite damage because it is capped (as far as using spell slots is concerned) at 5d8. I guess you could use that 9th level slot but it would still only do 5d8.
Crit damage is additional damage that is not tied to the divine smite ability.
Critical Hits
When you score a critical hit, you get to roll extra dice for the attack's damage against the target. Roll all of the attack's damage dice twice and add them together. Then add any relevant modifiers as normal. To speed up play, you can roll all the damage dice at once.
I’ve always heard, and I swear I read it somewhere, that a paladin’s divine smite is hard capped as per the class feature. No matter if it’s a crit or normal hit you can’t exceed the defined maximum. I pointed this out on a YouTube video but someone has replied saying this isn’t true. Am I crazy? Is this false and I’ve been holding paladins at my table back? Or is it actually true and if so can anyone provide me with a source other than just quoting the cap presented in the book itself? I can’t seem to find one and I’ve scoured the internet for a while on this. I’d love to be wrong but as I’ve always known it, I’m not.
If you're referring to the provisions in the Divine Smite Feature, they exist to keep multiclasses from using 6+ slots to soup the smite up further still. Any damage die that are a part of an attack that hits critically are doubled per RAW. That means that, with a 5th level slot, appropriate target, an 11th level paladin can roll up to 14d8 on a critical hit. I suppose you could call that the cap, but it's a soft cap, not a hard one. There's no hard cap on any kind of critical hit, as far as I'm aware.
You cannot Divine Smite for 14d8 damage on a crit. Divine Smites are capped at 5d8 damage (4th level or higher spell slot), making the max crit from a Divine Smite capped at 10d8. The cap is increased by 1d8 if you hit a undead or fiend which increases the max crit against those creature types to 12d8.
They specifically said an 11th level Paladin, which has the Improved Divine Smite feature where each attack automatically does an extra 1d8 radiant outside of the confines of normal Smite limits. So 5d8 from max smite + 1d8 from fiend/undead + 1d8 from Improved Divine Smite = 7d8 or 14d8 on a crit.
Divine Smite and Improved Divine Smite are 2 totally different and separate features despite the similar names. Improved Divine Smite is always on and does not require spending any resources (spell slots) to trigger and therefore should not be lumped together with Divine Smite.
Also note that the person I replied to mentioned using a 5th level spell slot which apart from the fact a 11th level Paladin does not even have access to 4th level spell slots, suggests to me that they were counting on 5th level slots adding another 1d8 damage.
My bad on some of the technical details, it was late. The point being, the cap is only on the initial bonus dice pool in relation to slot level, and a crit would double the entire pool.
Yup. Crits do double all attack dmg dice, whether they are from Rogue Sneak Attack, Spirit shroud, Paladin Smite, Booming Blade, Smite spells
OR
Rogue Sneak Attack + Booming Blade + Spirit Shroud + divine smite + improved smite + thunderous smite all in one. They all offer double dice when you crit.
Also, the 14d8+ weapon damage really isn't that much to be honest. You'd have to be lvl 17. At that point a single 14d8 off-chance won't be much of a tactic. (Edit. 13th level for 4th slot, which is enough to reach the cap. 14d8 crit is better at lvl 13 obviously, but still not something to rely on, especially since you sacrifice your only lvl 4 slot. Dmg drops to 12d8 if the enemy is not an undead or fiend. )
Sure you can wait for a crit before you use the level 4 slot, but what if you never crit?
Also. I don't think I'd use my level 4 slots for smite even on a crit unless I was multiclassing for extra slots or I desperately had to land a killing blow quickly. Maybe after level 17 when lvl 4 slots increase to 3. That extra spell level is 2d8 extra crit dmg compared to a level 3 slot., which isn't a lot compared to how much more powerful lvl 4 spells are.
I'd use my lower level slots for a sustainable source of smites and use the lvl 4 slots for spells since there are other effective ways to increase per turn melee damage, but not many ways to get access to bigger spells.
Finland GMT/UTC +2
I'm sorry but you have made the same mistake as The_Ace_of_Rogues. Divine Smites do not scale up to 5th level spell slots. They are capped at 4th level spell slots, any spell slot you use from 4th level and above all do the same damage.
I am usually not this nitpicky but this is the Rules and Game Mechanics part of the forum and I do not wish for newer players who wander here to get wrong info.
You are correct! 😄 The wording doesn't mention a maximum spellslot, but instead a maximum number additional dice which is 5, so I accidentally mixed it with 5 being the maximum slot level. But it starts at 2d8 so you reach the 5d8 with a 4th level slot. Maximum crit still being 14d8 + Weapon DMG with Improved Smite and Undead/fiend bonus.
Finland GMT/UTC +2
Ok but wouldn't the wording stating "maximum" also apply to crits too? Given that this is a specific vs general type of question? At least in my mind that's what it appears to be and I believe that's the reasoning that I'd heard previously. Genuinely asking here.
I think the "specific" here is regarding the amount of extra dice you can get by investing a bigger slot. So the maximum limits the amount of dice to gain from slot investment, but crit rules are different rules entirely and do not fall under this particular case of specific.
Finland GMT/UTC +2
No. The wording sets the base maximum, relative to the modifiers of slot level and type of target. Criticals, in turn, affect the entire dice pool. The two calculations do not interact.
Correct. You can’t be paladin 2/Bard 18 and use a 9th level slot to get 10d8 divine smite damage because it is capped (as far as using spell slots is concerned) at 5d8. I guess you could use that 9th level slot but it would still only do 5d8.
Crit damage is additional damage that is not tied to the divine smite ability.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?