I have a problem with the Demilich's stat block, more specifically their hit points.
The stat block says : 80 hit points, which is the average of their 32d4.
Further down on the page however, outside the stat block, we're given details on their Undead Nature, as follows :
A demilich doesn’t require air, food, drink, or sleep. So great is a demilich’s will to survive that it always has the maximum number of hit points for its Hit Dice, instead of average hit points.
So which is it, does a demilich have 80, or 128 hit points ?
The stat block says 80, the description further down says 128.
I would be tempted to go with 128, which is a more specific rule overriding a default behavior.
Edit: found how to add the monster's stat block directly in the post.
It looks like that was a line that was mistakenly left in after an errata where they increased the demilich's number of hit dice to make it more consistent with other monsters. It's certainly not intended to be this way, but I think if we're going by absolute RAW it would have 128 hit points, since the feature is a more specific rule. That being said, if you're a DM, just set the hit points to whatever you want.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I expect the "80" auto-filled in when they generated the stat block with the hit dice, and the maximum hit points is the intended value for the Demilich's hit points.
I expect the "80" auto-filled in when they generated the stat block with the hit dice, and the maximum hit points is the intended value for the Demilich's hit points.
I think so. 80 is the average hit points for a demilich based on the general average formula. But the description tells us the demilich won't have its average hit points when you encounter it, so that average doesn't really mean much. It's not wrong in a general sense, but it's not accurate to the demilich's unique situation.
I expect the "80" auto-filled in when they generated the stat block with the hit dice, and the maximum hit points is the intended value for the Demilich's hit points.
I doubt it.
It seems that before a 2018 errata to the MM, the hit points actually were the maximum possible for the hit dice. To make things more consistent between monsters, they increased the number of hit dice but took the average instead of the maximum. They just didn't remove the text in Undead Nature that made them take the max in the first place.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
It seems that before a 2018 errata to the MM, the hit points actually were the maximum possible for the hit dice. To make things more consistent between monsters, they increased the number of hit dice but took the average instead of the maximum. They just didn't remove the text in Undead Nature that made them take the max in the first place.
But if that was previously always the case by default, why would the demilich description bother to mention it at all?
It seems that before a 2018 errata to the MM, the hit points actually were the maximum possible for the hit dice. To make things more consistent between monsters, they increased the number of hit dice but took the average instead of the maximum. They just didn't remove the text in Undead Nature that made them take the max in the first place.
But if that was previously always the case by default, why would the demilich description bother to mention it at all?
I don't understand the question.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
If I understood your statement correctly, you were hypothesizing that, prior to the 2018 errata, all monster stat blocks assumed monsters would have the maximum number of hit points for their hit dice and that the 2018 errata established that monsters would instead have an average number of hit points. Now maybe I misunderstood that statement, but if that is what you were saying, and prior to 2018, the demilich, along with all other creatures defaulted to the maximum number of hitpoints for their hit dice, then why would the demilich need a line in its description to restate what is already implied by the general rule (at the time, prior to errata) that all monsters have the maximum hit points for their hit dice?
If I understood your statement correctly, you were hypothesizing that, prior to the 2018 errata, all monster stat blocks assumed monsters would have the maximum number of hit points for their hit dice and that the 2018 errata established that monsters would instead have an average number of hit points. Now maybe I misunderstood that statement, but if that is what you were saying, and prior to 2018, the demilich, along with all other creatures defaulted to the maximum number of hitpoints for their hit dice, then why would the demilich need a line in its description to restate what is already implied by the general rule (at the time, prior to errata) that all monsters have the maximum hit points for their hit dice?
You misunderstood my statement. I was only talking about the demilich.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I don't know, we're talking CR 18 with 80 hit points, that does seem rather low.
Of all the CR18 creatures, only the Demilich and Sibriex have < 200 HP (with Sibriex sitting at 150).
Excluding the Demilich, monsters I don't have access to (Princes of the Apocalypse, Dragon Heist, Candlekeep Mysteries) and legacy creatures, the 10 of them average 227 hit points.
I'm thinking the error they made is the other way around, as in they forgot to adjust the HP, contrary to they forgot to adjust the Undead Nature text.
Getting an official ruling on this would be interesting :)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Hello everyone,
I have a problem with the Demilich's stat block, more specifically their hit points.
The stat block says : 80 hit points, which is the average of their 32d4.
Further down on the page however, outside the stat block, we're given details on their Undead Nature, as follows :
A demilich doesn’t require air, food, drink, or sleep. So great is a demilich’s will to survive that it always has the maximum number of hit points for its Hit Dice, instead of average hit points.
So which is it, does a demilich have 80, or 128 hit points ?
The stat block says 80, the description further down says 128.
I would be tempted to go with 128, which is a more specific rule overriding a default behavior.
Edit: found how to add the monster's stat block directly in the post.
Curious how ? Over there :
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/general-discussion/11983-how-to-add-tooltips
It looks like that was a line that was mistakenly left in after an errata where they increased the demilich's number of hit dice to make it more consistent with other monsters. It's certainly not intended to be this way, but I think if we're going by absolute RAW it would have 128 hit points, since the feature is a more specific rule. That being said, if you're a DM, just set the hit points to whatever you want.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I expect the "80" auto-filled in when they generated the stat block with the hit dice, and the maximum hit points is the intended value for the Demilich's hit points.
I think so. 80 is the average hit points for a demilich based on the general average formula. But the description tells us the demilich won't have its average hit points when you encounter it, so that average doesn't really mean much. It's not wrong in a general sense, but it's not accurate to the demilich's unique situation.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I doubt it.
It seems that before a 2018 errata to the MM, the hit points actually were the maximum possible for the hit dice. To make things more consistent between monsters, they increased the number of hit dice but took the average instead of the maximum. They just didn't remove the text in Undead Nature that made them take the max in the first place.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
But if that was previously always the case by default, why would the demilich description bother to mention it at all?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I don't understand the question.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
If I understood your statement correctly, you were hypothesizing that, prior to the 2018 errata, all monster stat blocks assumed monsters would have the maximum number of hit points for their hit dice and that the 2018 errata established that monsters would instead have an average number of hit points. Now maybe I misunderstood that statement, but if that is what you were saying, and prior to 2018, the demilich, along with all other creatures defaulted to the maximum number of hitpoints for their hit dice, then why would the demilich need a line in its description to restate what is already implied by the general rule (at the time, prior to errata) that all monsters have the maximum hit points for their hit dice?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
You misunderstood my statement. I was only talking about the demilich.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I don't know, we're talking CR 18 with 80 hit points, that does seem rather low.
Of all the CR18 creatures, only the Demilich and Sibriex have < 200 HP (with Sibriex sitting at 150).
Excluding the Demilich, monsters I don't have access to (Princes of the Apocalypse, Dragon Heist, Candlekeep Mysteries) and legacy creatures, the 10 of them average 227 hit points.
I'm thinking the error they made is the other way around, as in they forgot to adjust the HP, contrary to they forgot to adjust the Undead Nature text.
Getting an official ruling on this would be interesting :)