Cartomancer Feat - Spell Slot

Now with 2024 out in the blue the cartomancer feat is marked as compatible and not Legacy.

But is there any new way to 'interpret' this feat? 

Hidden Ace. When you finish a long rest, you can choose one spell from your class’s spell list and imbue that spell into a card. The chosen spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and it must be a level for which you have spell slots. The card remains imbued with this spell for 8 hours. While the card is imbued with the spell, you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and cast the spell within. The card then immediately loses its magic.

So let's break this down to a point where there should be no more discussions about the spell slot issue.
1. you imbue the spell into the card -> Spell is inside the card that is a fact.
2. flourish the card and cast the spell within -> You're not really casting the spell, you're basically just releasing what is inside, the only thing u actually cast is the release and direction, not the spell itself.
3. The card then immediately loses it's magic. -> This is like losing a charge of whatever magic item that has charges.
4. I know that has been discussed already, but an item imbued with magic is a magic item, that is a fact, therefore those rules apply here.
5. Just like alexdohm9191 showed in his post and I basically already said in 2. even though it says cast, it doesn't mean it must use a spell slot.

My Theory behind this is it works like this: During the long rest he is able to regain more energy, than he can story in his body in the form of spell slots, which by the way are like charges of items, so during the long rest he keeps collecting the energy and since he can not store it inside him, he saves that energy in the card, so he has already paid the spell slot and still has all slots available.
Yes this can get quite strong late game, but there are also magic items that grant you to restore a spell slot, or feats that let you use a spell a certain amount of times per day without needing a spell slot, therefor it ain't really that strong or unique, especially not in the early to mid-game, in comparison the ring of spell storing, filling it costs a slot but in exchange it does stay in it forever, not just for 8 hours. Yes it is limited to a lvl 5 spell, but you have a fight more than 8 hours after waking up, that makes the card useless while the ring still works.
What I want to say is yes the feat lets you store a higher spell level, but it is less reliable, so that kinda puts them on nearly the same level for me.

Now, what I want to start a discussion about is this:
Can I give the card to someone else so he can use it as an action like a scroll, or better like one of the tattoos, since there it is not necessary, that the user knows the spell, he doesn't even need to be a spell caster for it.
I mean it says you can use it as a bonus action, but it doesn't say that only you can use that magic item, the only difference would be that other players would need an action to use it, or not? I mean, for everyone else it basically should be, a magic item, that is only useable for a short time. (8 hours)

Quote from keunity >>

Hidden Ace. When you finish a long rest, you can choose one spell from your class’s spell list and imbue that spell into a card. The chosen spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and it must be a level for which you have spell slots. The card remains imbued with this spell for 8 hours. While the card is imbued with the spell, you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and cast the spell within. The card then immediately loses its magic.

So let's break this down to a point where there should be no more discussions about the spell slot issue.
1. you imbue the spell into the card -> Spell is inside the card that is a fact.
2. flourish the card and cast the spell within -> You're not really casting the spell, you're basically just releasing what is inside, the only thing u actually cast is the release and direction, not the spell itself.
3. The card then immediately loses it's magic. -> This is like losing a charge of whatever magic item that has charges.
4. I know that has been discussed already, but an item imbued with magic is a magic item, that is a fact, therefore those rules apply here.
5. Just like alexdohm9191 showed in his post and I basically already said in 2. even though it says cast, it doesn't mean it must use a spell slot.

My Theory behind this is it works like this: During the long rest he is able to regain more energy, than he can story in his body in the form of spell slots, which by the way are like charges of items, so during the long rest he keeps collecting the energy and since he can not store it inside him, he saves that energy in the card, so he has already paid the spell slot and still has all slots available.
Yes this can get quite strong late game, but there are also magic items that grant you to restore a spell slot, or feats that let you use a spell a certain amount of times per day without needing a spell slot, therefor it ain't really that strong or unique, especially not in the early to mid-game, in comparison the ring of spell storing, filling it costs a slot but in exchange it does stay in it forever, not just for 8 hours. Yes it is limited to a lvl 5 spell, but you have a fight more than 8 hours after waking up, that makes the card useless while the ring still works.
What I want to say is yes the feat lets you store a higher spell level, but it is less reliable, so that kinda puts them on nearly the same level for me.

Now, what I want to start a discussion about is this:
Can I give the card to someone else so he can use it as an action like a scroll, or better like one of the tattoos, since there it is not necessary, that the user knows the spell, he doesn't even need to be a spell caster for it.
I mean it says you can use it as a bonus action, but it doesn't say that only you can use that magic item, the only difference would be that other players would need an action to use it, or not? I mean, for everyone else it basically should be, a magic item, that is only useable for a short time. (8 hours)

 That entire incorrect mouthful would have a few other implications. According to you:

-The spell cast through Cartomancer is impossible to counter
-The spell cast through Cartomancer ignores expensive material components

Since the feat doesn't talk about ignoring the components, specify that you cast without a spell slot, or say anything about a magic item, it's not using magic item rules.

For the other question at the bottom: No. You can cast the spell that way, because it's cast through a feat, and that's all there is to it. Nothing in the feat gives you a chance to pass it to anyone else, so it doesn't do that.

Quote from keunity >>

Hidden Ace. When you finish a long rest, you can choose one spell from your class’s spell list and imbue that spell into a card. The chosen spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and it must be a level for which you have spell slots. The card remains imbued with this spell for 8 hours. While the card is imbued with the spell, you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and cast the spell within. The card then immediately loses its magic.

So let's break this down to a point where there should be no more discussions about the spell slot issue.
1. you imbue the spell into the card -> Spell is inside the card that is a fact.
2. flourish the card and cast the spell within -> You're not really casting the spell, you're basically just releasing what is inside, the only thing u actually cast is the release and direction, not the spell itself.
would be that other players would need an action to use it, or not? I mean, for everyone else it basically should be, a magic item, that is only useable for a short time. (8 hours)

Emphasis added. The feat is explicit. You are casting a spell. By default, that requires a spell slot at least equal to the level of the spell. There is nothing in the feat that allows you to cast without a spell slot.

Now what is wild is that you need to have the spell on your spell list and you need to have a spell slot of the appropriate level, but I don't think you need to be high enough level to cast it in the class whose spell list you are taking it from. For example, Bard 1/Druid 1/Cleric 1/Wizard 17 can use the feat to cast any Bard, Druid, Cleric, or Wizard spell (as long as it is not added to the class list by a Bard/Druid/Cleric subclass. I think someone didn't think that through properly. At least it's only once a day.

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Quote from keunity >>

Hidden Ace. When you finish a long rest, you can choose one spell from your class’s spell list and imbue that spell into a card. The chosen spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and it must be a level for which you have spell slots. The card remains imbued with this spell for 8 hours. While the card is imbued with the spell, you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and cast the spell within. The card then immediately loses its magic.

So let's break this down to a point where there should be no more discussions about the spell slot issue.
1. you imbue the spell into the card -> Spell is inside the card that is a fact.
2. flourish the card and cast the spell within -> You're not really casting the spell, you're basically just releasing what is inside, the only thing u actually cast is the release and direction, not the spell itself.
would be that other players would need an action to use it, or not? I mean, for everyone else it basically should be, a magic item, that is only useable for a short time. (8 hours)

Emphasis added. The feat is explicit. You are casting a spell. By default, that requires a spell slot at least equal to the level of the spell. There is nothing in the feat that allows you to cast without a spell slot.

Now what is wild is that you need to have the spell on your spell list and you need to have a spell slot of the appropriate level, but I don't think you need to be high enough level to cast it in the class whose spell list you are taking it from. For example, Bard 1/Druid 1/Cleric 1/Wizard 17 can use the feat to cast any Bard, Druid, Cleric, or Wizard spell (as long as it is not added to the class list by a Bard/Druid/Cleric subclass. I think someone didn't think that through properly. At least it's only once a day.

 I'd say it's fine enough since you still need to have the slot in general. Mizzium Apparatus does the same, and I have a build on a public server that's mostly Wizard but also Stars Druid and Cleric so it gets access to all three and is entirely reliable with it. Suffers from that ability requiring an attunement slot (which are always a valuable resource) and the casting stats being a little MAD (meaning my progression isn't as good as others). I'd say the once-a-day nature of this along with requiring a feat to do so (another limited resource in a build) is balancing enough for it.

Quote from Athanar90 >>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Quote from keunity >>

Hidden Ace. When you finish a long rest, you can choose one spell from your class’s spell list and imbue that spell into a card. The chosen spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and it must be a level for which you have spell slots. The card remains imbued with this spell for 8 hours. While the card is imbued with the spell, you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and cast the spell within. The card then immediately loses its magic.

So let's break this down to a point where there should be no more discussions about the spell slot issue.
1. you imbue the spell into the card -> Spell is inside the card that is a fact.
2. flourish the card and cast the spell within -> You're not really casting the spell, you're basically just releasing what is inside, the only thing u actually cast is the release and direction, not the spell itself.
would be that other players would need an action to use it, or not? I mean, for everyone else it basically should be, a magic item, that is only useable for a short time. (8 hours)

Emphasis added. The feat is explicit. You are casting a spell. By default, that requires a spell slot at least equal to the level of the spell. There is nothing in the feat that allows you to cast without a spell slot.

Now what is wild is that you need to have the spell on your spell list and you need to have a spell slot of the appropriate level, but I don't think you need to be high enough level to cast it in the class whose spell list you are taking it from. For example, Bard 1/Druid 1/Cleric 1/Wizard 17 can use the feat to cast any Bard, Druid, Cleric, or Wizard spell (as long as it is not added to the class list by a Bard/Druid/Cleric subclass. I think someone didn't think that through properly. At least it's only once a day.

 I'd say it's fine enough since you still need to have the slot in general. Mizzium Apparatus does the same, and I have a build on a public server that's mostly Wizard but also Stars Druid and Cleric so it gets access to all three and is entirely reliable with it. Suffers from that ability requiring an attunement slot (which are always a valuable resource) and the casting stats being a little MAD (meaning my progression isn't as good as others). I'd say the once-a-day nature of this along with requiring a feat to do so (another limited resource in a build) is balancing enough for it.

There are some concerns about the balance of the Magic the Gathering options and normal D&D settings.

Compare the Apparatus (uncommon item) and theHat of Many Spells (very rare item and less versatile).

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Quote from Athanar90 >>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Quote from keunity >>

Hidden Ace. When you finish a long rest, you can choose one spell from your class’s spell list and imbue that spell into a card. The chosen spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and it must be a level for which you have spell slots. The card remains imbued with this spell for 8 hours. While the card is imbued with the spell, you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and cast the spell within. The card then immediately loses its magic.

So let's break this down to a point where there should be no more discussions about the spell slot issue.
1. you imbue the spell into the card -> Spell is inside the card that is a fact.
2. flourish the card and cast the spell within -> You're not really casting the spell, you're basically just releasing what is inside, the only thing u actually cast is the release and direction, not the spell itself.
would be that other players would need an action to use it, or not? I mean, for everyone else it basically should be, a magic item, that is only useable for a short time. (8 hours)

Emphasis added. The feat is explicit. You are casting a spell. By default, that requires a spell slot at least equal to the level of the spell. There is nothing in the feat that allows you to cast without a spell slot.

Now what is wild is that you need to have the spell on your spell list and you need to have a spell slot of the appropriate level, but I don't think you need to be high enough level to cast it in the class whose spell list you are taking it from. For example, Bard 1/Druid 1/Cleric 1/Wizard 17 can use the feat to cast any Bard, Druid, Cleric, or Wizard spell (as long as it is not added to the class list by a Bard/Druid/Cleric subclass. I think someone didn't think that through properly. At least it's only once a day.

 I'd say it's fine enough since you still need to have the slot in general. Mizzium Apparatus does the same, and I have a build on a public server that's mostly Wizard but also Stars Druid and Cleric so it gets access to all three and is entirely reliable with it. Suffers from that ability requiring an attunement slot (which are always a valuable resource) and the casting stats being a little MAD (meaning my progression isn't as good as others). I'd say the once-a-day nature of this along with requiring a feat to do so (another limited resource in a build) is balancing enough for it.

There are some concerns about the balance of the Magic the Gathering options and normal D&D settings.

Compare the Apparatus (uncommon item) and theHat of Many Spells (very rare item and less versatile).

 While the Hat of Many Spells is less versatile (since it's wizard only), it allows you to bypass costly material components and the Arcana check required is lower (Apparatus is 10 + twice the spell's level, vs Hat's 10 + spell's level).

I think a key word in this feat description is CAN, and a condition specified before it. 
1) condition: While the card is imbued with the spell,
2) effect: you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and cast the spell within.
As long, as the first and only condition specified be the feat is met,  card can be flourshed and the spell within cast.
if you don't have spell slots left, but the card is imbued, you CAN cast the spell.
if you have used your action to cast fireball, but the card is imbued you still CAN use bonus action and cast the spell within.
Only a rule more specific than this feat description could beat this, because specific rules overrides general ones.

This is absolutely busted and I love it. It is truly an ace up my sleave. If DM hates it, she can always disallow it, or make the most important battle of the day happen nine hours after long rest, or whatever she likes and I'll be cool with that, cause I like her more, than this feat.
 

Quote from Konfuzja >>

I think a key word in this feat description is CAN, and a condition specified before it. 
1) condition: While the card is imbued with the spell,
2) effect: you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and cast the spell within.
As long, as the first and only condition specified be the feat is met,  card can be flourshed and the spell within cast.
if you don't have spell slots left, but the card is imbued, you CAN cast the spell.
if you have used your action to cast fireball, but the card is imbued you still CAN use bonus action and cast the spell within.
Only a rule more specific than this feat description could beat this, because specific rules overrides general ones.

This is absolutely busted and I love it. It is truly an ace up my sleave. If DM hates it, she can always disallow it, or make the most important battle of the day happen nine hours after long rest, or whatever she likes and I'll be cool with that, cause I like her more, than this feat.
 

 You're making the assumption that's been debated to Avernus and back that this removes the requirement of the spell slot. See the last 5 pages of posts for why your post clarifies nothing.

I am going to use it as written...doesnt say a spell slot is used, no spell slot is used.  People can try to read the minds of the devs, I prefer reading the text.

Quote from shadow_2099 >>

I am going to use it as written...doesnt say a spell slot is used, no spell slot is used.  People can try to read the minds of the devs, I prefer reading the text.

Nice job bumping a thread over a year old with a wrong opinion. 

If a feature allows you to cast a spell without a spell slot, it must state that explicitly. That it doesn't specify "without a spell slot" means it takes one.

Well, that's how you read it.  I disagree.  Its like any other magic item that does NOT need to use one of your spell slots as far as I can see.  But have fun.

Quote from shadow_2099 >>

Well, that's how you read it.  I disagree.  Its like any other magic item that does NOT need to use one of your spell slots as far as I can see.  But have fun.

It's not a magic item. It's a feature from a feat. If it counted as a magic item, it would tell you that.

Using a slot just puts it on par with taking Quickened Spell for Metamagic Adept in the 2014 rules, or if you're playing 2024 rules, one major change: You can still cast another leveled spell as long as the second one doesn't use a spell slot.

If it didn't use a slot, it would mean you could cast 2 9th-level spells in the same turn.

2024 rules make it stronger either way...

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

a level 4 feat, and the only thing you really get out of it is "prestidigitation" and you can burn a spell slot to "imbue" one card with a spell you know and cast it as a bonus action instead of action?

I mean.... I guess?

Isn't that just like getting 1 point of "Quickened" metamagic? If that's all it does, why not just make it 1 point of quickened metamagic then?

On the other hand, if it gives you one casting of a spell without using a spell slot, that means you could eventually cast 2 level 9 spells per long rest?

If it uses a slot, its a pretty boring feat.

if it doesn't use a slot, holy cow is that OP at higher levels.

Either way, the wording really sucks and ought to be clarified.

It's a feat that lets you cast a spell as a Bonus Action without being a Sorcery or without using Sorcery Points if you have them. Other than the change in the spell's action, the Feat states that you are casting the spell. It's okay. There are probably some good options to use with it. However, you will be limited by the number of spells you can cast with a Spell Slot. A Warlock could use it to cast Eldritch Blast twice per turn, but level 1+ spells will need a way to cast without a spell slot in order to double up on things like Fireball. If you manage to do this with Time Stop, do you take 2d4+2 turns in the space of one turn?

There are no restrictions on the spell other than the casting time, so you could use it have Revivify on hand as a Bonus Action. I am sure there are ways to optimize it. I've never used it myself, but that doesn't mean it is a bad feat.

Here's a very basic smell test for if the "you can cast whatever spell you store for free" interpretation is plausible. The only prior ways you can get an additional cast of a 9th level spell is with a Legendary magic item or an Epic Boon. Given that, does it sound reasonable that a basic feat should have not only equivalent horsepower, but also accelerate the cast?

Look, it says what it says.  You imbue the power, but it doesnt say you use a spell slot.  You cast it as a bonus action, again no mention of using a spell slot.  Now, I think its pretty clear in how its worded and that is how I read it.  If you want to water it down for your game, go ahead.  I dont think it needs to be, it is OK to have nice things people.  But, again, your tables your choices.  But its fine as is.  And it helps multi classing characters, and I like there to be good powerful options.  So main pt, I think its clear, and I think people are over reacting and reaching for nerfing any nail that raises its head above a certain pt..not my style, but ah well.  If I cast a spell out a scroll, it doesnt use a spell slot.  The card is essentially a scroll in this application.  It wont break the game.

Quote from shadow_2099 >>

Look, it says what it says.

Yes, it says you cast a spell. How do you cast a (level 1+) spell? With a spell slot unless a rule or feature says otherwise.

Quote from shadow_2099 >>

The card is essentially a scroll in this application. 

Scrolls are Magic Items and Magic Items don't use a spell slot (normally) when you cast a spell from them.

Casting without Slots

Magic Items.Spell Scrolls and some other magic items contain spells that can be cast without a spell slot. The description of such an item specifies how many times a spell can be cast from it.

and

Spells Cast from Items

Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn’t expend any of the user’s spell slots, and requires no components unless the item’s description notes otherwise. The spell uses its normal casting time, range, and duration, and the user of the item must concentrate if the spell requires Concentration. Many items, such as Potions, bypass the casting of a spell and confer the spell’s effects with its usual duration. Certain items make exceptions to these rules, changing the casting time, duration, or other parts of a spell.

Emphasis added.

Spell Scrolls explicitly do not use a slot when casting a spell. By contrast, Cartomancer is a Feat and, like Fey-touched, Shadow-touched, and Magic Initiate, must explicitly state that a spell is cast without a spell slot. Being able to turn a spell into a Bonus Action is pretty big. An extra spell per day can be hug, particularly at higher levels.

There are also scenarios where your interpretation is a raw deal. If someone drops to 0 HP, I can use Cartomancer to Bonus Action cast Cure Wounds instead of Healing Word. In your interpretation, that would never be more than a level 1 Cure Wounds. However, under the RAW interpretation, if I have a 4th level slot, I can use it to Bonus Action heal for 8d8 HP. That doesn't balance out the extra free spell slot you are handing out. It just makes some spells worthless in combination with the Feat and others busted.

Ya, disagree, but since I dont play at your table I doubt it will be an issue.  Casting a spell through the spell casting feature uses a spell slot.  Casting through an item, be a ring, scroll, staff, wand, rod, etc uses the item and/or charge.  The card is the "charge" in this case.  Now, if you feel you REALLY have to restrict it, again, go ahead and do so.  I think its silly to limit it that way, but some folks are determined to not let us have nice things.  Or ban it if you think its too busted, but again, silly in my mind to do so.  The feature doesnt need to be nerfed to all hell.  Its one extra slot and sure at sure high levels it can be a high level slot.  Who cares?  A LOT of the problems people have with the game arent the features, its simply comes down to not having enough encounters per day....ie moving away from what DnD is, to be instead something that would be better suited to say Vampire the Masq. where more interactions and less combat is the norm.  DnD is about going into lairs, murdering the residents and looting.  Then the drinking.  So if you are not running a number of encounters, to wear down resources, then sure that extra slot or two might be unnecessary....but if you ARE wearing down resources, then overall, its not going to be a big deal, and it will allow for people to enjoy the heart of the game more.  At least that is my view on it.  Its why I think ALL martial resources need to be doubled if not tripled so they can keep doing their cool stuff and not regulated to once or twice a day....which right now is the problem, ESP at low levels but in some cases it is a problem through out the level progression becuase, for example Monk, the cost to use higher end features is very very expensive when it all comes from one resource pool.

Quote from shadow_2099 >>

Ya, disagree, but since I dont play at your table I doubt it will be an issue.  Casting a spell through the spell casting feature uses a spell slot.  Casting through an item, be a ring, scroll, staff, wand, rod, etc uses the item and/or charge.  The card is the "charge" in this case.

The feat doesn't create a Magic Item so the Magic Item rules do not apply. If the card was casting the spell, you could hand it to someone else and have them cast it. You cannot because it is a feature of the Feat, not the item. If it created a Magic Item, it would tell you, which it does not.

Quote from shadow_2099 >>

A LOT of the problems people have with the game arent the features, its simply comes down to not having enough encounters per day.

Many problems in D&D are caused by misunderstandings of the rules and poor communications of expectations between others at the table. You can house rule Cartomancer how you like, but your claims are not RAW and you should understand what RAW is before making any changes. When you make house rules without an understanding of the rules there can be many unintended impacts.

Quote from shadow_2099 >>

The feature doesnt need to be nerfed to all hell.  Its one extra slot and sure at sure high levels it can be a high level slot.  Who cares?

The feature doesn't need to be buffed. It's a Bonus Action spell of your choice once a day and a cantrip. It's good as is. It doesn't need an abusive upgrade that scales as you gain access to higher spell slots.

Quote from shadow_2099 >>

DnD is about going into lairs, murdering the residents and looting.  Then the drinking.

Muderhobo is ... a style of play, but not the only one and not the more complex or taxing one.

Quote from shadow_2099 >>

So if you are not running a number of encounters, to wear down resources, then sure that extra slot or two might be unnecessary....but if you ARE wearing down resources, then overall, its not going to be a big deal, and it will allow for people to enjoy the heart of the game more.  

When you are playing around attrition of resources is exactly when an extra spell slot is overpowered. If you aren't running out of spell slots, an extra one isn't making a difference.

Quote from shadow_2099 >>

Its why I think ALL martial resources need to be doubled if not tripled so they can keep doing their cool stuff and not regulated to once or twice a day....which right now is the problem, 

In a game with a martial-caster divide that increases as you gain in levels, maybe if you weren't handing out, or asking for, caster buffs hand over fist, you wouldn't need martials buffed as much.

Your argument has no rules basis and is not consistent with other feats in the game.