Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Potent Dragonmark.....so there are feats that can give spell slots. Again, I disagree with your interpretation, but that's fine.
Potent Dragonmark is arguably unbalanced, particularly compared to 2014 feats. However, it causes your Dragonmark spells to be always prepared and gives you one spell slot to cast a restricted list of spells but does not change the casting time of the spell used to cast it. In addition, because it is an actual spell slot, you cannot cast another spell with a spell slot that turn.
You are saying that Cartomancer effectively gives you a free casting AND changes a 1 action spell to a bonus action AND allows you to break the limit of spells with a spell slot per turn because it is not actually a spell slot.
That is three big buffs that blow Potent Dragonmark out of the water. If the Feat worked the way you described, it would be an automatic pick for nearly every caster. You can't Fireball twice on a turn for one Feat.
Look at Metamagic Adept from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything since it's actually from the same 2014 ruleset. You can choose 2 Metamagic Options and have 2 Sorcery Points to use with them. You can choose Quickened Spell and another Metamagic option. Cartomancer is flavorful, but a little weaker than Metamagic Adept. If you allow Cartomancer to give you an extra spell and break the 1 spell with a spell slot per turn limit, Cartomancer destroys Metamagic Adept.
You can house rule how you want at your table, but it is a house rule. RAW is clear and doesn't allow those shenanigans.
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And look at that, it explicitly tells you that it does. It also only goes up to 5th level for balance reasons and limits the spells it applies to.
Not comparable.
"allows you to break the limit of spells with a spell slot..." No. You aren't casting a spell with a spell slot. Breaking it would be casting more than 1 spell with a spell slot. There are quite a few ways to cast multiple leveled spells in a turn and only using 1 spell slot. That doesn't break anything and is following the rules.
Also disagree about it being clear. Giving the disagreements across the community, I'd say it is quite not clear.
Cartomancer is full of shenanigans. Like being able to pick a spell of a level you cannot cast, but you have a spell slot for, depending on how you view it (either bound or not by the multiclassing spell rules).
You are casting with a spell slot because the Cartomancer feat allows you to cast a 1 Action spell as a Bonus Action. Nothing more. It does not allow you to get around the limit of spells you can cast by not using a spell slot. In 2014, the limit was actually that you could not cast more than one level 1+ spell per turn and this is a 2014 feat. The 2024 rules are a little looser.
I think the consensus is pretty clear, particularly with in the context of the 2024 rules that this post was reopened. There are a few false examples, like a Spellwrought Tattoo and Wands.
Casting a Spell always uses a spell slot ... unless it doesn't. However, when it doesn't there is a rule that explicitly says that it does not. The rules are clear, but they aren't neatly consolidated into a feat description that says that you change the casting time and reiterates that you still need to provide the spell slot, and the duration is the same, and the spell save/attack bonus is the same. Also remember that if the spell was being cast from an item (card), the card would need to explicitly state the Spell Attack Modifier and Spell Save DC or explicitly state that it uses your own. The feat does not do this because it follows the spell casting rules as normal, except for the cast time.
No, I think you are right on those shenanigans. You choose the spell on your list that you have spell slots for (I wonder why those are important?) and that specific rule bypasses the general prepared spell requirement for casting spells. Since you choose from the spell list, the multiclass rules on preparing spells wouldn't apply. Technically, you could combine it with one level in a spell casting class and the Potent Dragonmark feat to Bonus Action cast your spells of the mark even if your other levels not spellcasting levels, but that is probably not particularly special.
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ACTUALLY....Absolutely and 100% incorrect. In the 2014 rules the limit was not that you could not cast more than one level 1+ spell per turn. Your inaccuracy on that puts a serious doubt on any other interpretations that you have. The LIMIT in 2014 was that if you used your BONUS ACTION to cast a spell, then any other spells you cast that turn HAD to be a cantrip. THAT IS IT. Casting a Fireball, Action Surge Fireball is 100% perfectly legal in 2014. The limit on the number of leveled spells you could cast in a turn was based on your available actions that were not a Bonus Action and available spell slot.
Splitting hairs aside, the fact remains that there is no language in Cartomancer explicitly saying you may cast the selected spell without using a spell slot, and as it is a feat such language would be required based on the precedent of every other feat published in official materials. It was badly written, but if you actually attempt to parse the RAI from the lens of "what produces an effect consistent with comparable parts of the game" rather than "what gets the player the most advantage", it's not hard to infer the intended function.
Yes, this is correct. I am tired and may be rustier on the 2014 rules than I thought. However, the result of the statement is still the same. Where does Cartomancer say you can now cast anything other than a Cantrip? It does not because it does not say it does. When you cast a spell using Cartomancer, you will not be able to cast any other level 1+ spells that turn because you will be restricted to only casting Cantrips.
We are not talking about casting extra spells via Action Surge, we are talking about a spell being cast as a Bonus Action. Why is that important?
So now back to where does Cartomancer say it does not use a spell slot? It does not. It says you cast a spell and it follows all the rules on casting a spell except those a feature (in this case Cartomancer) explicitly changes, which is to change a 1 action spell into a Bonus Action spell. The requirement to use a spell slot still applies unless you choose to use it with a Cantrip.
Examples of other features that allow you to cast spells with or without spell slots.
I think you will find that in every official case where a spell can be "cast" without a spell slot, one of two things are happening: there is a rule explicitly saying that a spell slot is not used in that circumstance; or the effect is not casting a spell and the rule for the effect does not reference casting a spell (see an Artificer's Spell-storing Item).
Cartomancer only allows you to cast a spell as a Bonus Action. In certain scenarios, it also allows you to cast spells you could not otherwise prepare, but it is not clear if that was RAI (definitely RAW). You are still restricted by every other rule of spellcasting.
In the context of using this 2014 feat under the 2024 rules:
I feel that Book of Many Things was a gimmicky book and will be unlikely to be updated, but a potentially updated version of the feat might look like this if they change Hidden Ace:
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Card Tricks. Unchanged.
Hidden Ace. When you finish a long rest, you can choose one spell from your class's spell list and imbue that spell into a card. The chosen spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and you must be eligible to prepare it. The card remains imbued with this spell until you finish a long rest. While the card is imbued with the spell, it counts as prepared and you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and cast the spell within. The card then immediately loses its magic.
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That isnt true. The 2024 rules is no more than 1 spell with a spell slot. No where is there a place saying you are using a spell slot to cast the spell...again, at least how I read it. But hey, I dont try to make things worst.
Nowhere does it say that it isn't using a spell slot. It does say you are casting a spell and thus must follow all of the rules of casting a spell, including using a spell slot. The feat only changes the rules on casting a spell that it explicitly says it changes.
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We've been told many times that 5e rules are written in natural language. So, when the feat explicitly says "The card then immediately loses its magic". Loses its magic is a common term used across more than a few magic items which have charges that do not replenish (and some that do, after centuries). Since the feature tells us the item loses its magic when the spell is cast, that means it was a magic item, and since it contains a spell, it falls under: "Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item, often by expending charges from it. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn't expend any of the user's spell slots, and requires no components unless the item's description says otherwise"
Unless it's explicitly stated to create a magic item, the feat isn't creating a magic item.
There are a few problems with that.
First, as mentioned by Athanar90, it never says it creates a Magic Item so it does not and the Magic Item rules do not apply; only the spellcasting rules. Additionally, I can't think of an effect that creates a non-predefined Magic Item that without assigning a Rarity. For example, Pennant of the Vind Rune says that you can transfer the magic to Armor that gives +5 speed and doesn't impose disadvantage on Stealth. That is not an existing Magic Item independent of the Pennant, so it tells you that it is now an Uncommon Magic Item that requires attunement.
Second, the feat actually says " ... you can choose one spell from your class's spell list and imbue that spell into a card. ... While the card is imbued with the spell, you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and cast the spell within. The card then immediately loses its magic." The magic it is losing is the imbuement of the spell. It is never a Magic Item.
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If its imbued with magic its the same as a scroll, which is cast without a spell slot. Again, run it like you want. There is clearly room for interpretation. I prefer, in the absence of absolute language, to allow for the greatest flexibility and fun. Others want to restrict. So you do you....I will do the same.
No, it is not like a Scroll. A Scroll is a Magic Item. It is listed in the categories of Magic Items. It is explicitly listed as a Magic Item.
Magic Items have rarities and those rarities can sometimes be important for certain effects.
Cartomancer never says it creates a Magic Item. It never assigns a Magic Item Rarity. It never defines the Spell Save DC or Spell Attack Bonus. You are casting the spell and the card is just a gimmick for flavor. The only thing Hidden Ace does is change a 1 Action spell to a Bonus Action spell.
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Just remember this only applies if you're the DM or your DM agrees, since not using a spell slot would be a house rule.
I think the interpretation of the Cartomancer feat is up to the DM and how they want to run it. The RAW does not seem to be cut and dried since the Cartomancer feat uses "imbue" which is not defined but does state that the card is a magic item since it loses its magic when the spell is cast.
However, the feat itself uses language that implies the card is a magic item - if that affects the interpretation of other rules. The text states that after the spell is cast "The card then immediately loses its magic." - which can be interpreted to mean that the card itself becomes a consumable magic item.
The problem is that the feat uses unique language to describe the loading of the spell into the card which is not defined elsewhere in the rules.
"you can choose one spell from your class’s spell list and imbue that spell into a card"
What does imbue mean? The text does NOT state CAST into the item which means that a spell slot likely does not need to be expended when the spell is placed in the card. Otherwise the text could have read that that use must "cast" the spell into the item as in a Ring of Spell Storing. However, a DM could decide that "imbue" does require the expenditure of a spell slot. Either interpretation is consistent with RAW since imbue is not defined.
The 2024 rules on magic items state:
"Spells Cast from Items
Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn’t expend any of the user’s spell slots, and requires no components unless the item’s description notes otherwise. The spell uses its normal casting time, range, and duration, and the user of the item must concentrate if the spell requires Concentration. Many items, such as Potions, bypass the casting of a spell and confer the spell’s effects with its usual duration. Certain items make exceptions to these rules, changing the casting time, duration, or other parts of a spell.."
In general. a spell cast from a magic item does not require a spell slot and since the rules explicitly state that the card "immediately loses its magic" when the spell is cast - this is a pretty clear indication that the card IS a magic item since if it was not, then it would have no magic to lose.
Anyway, I think the interpretation that the card is not a magic item and that the feat requires a spell slot to be spent is not as obviously RAW as some folks seem to be presenting it in this thread. However, since "imbue" is not defined, a DM could choose to require a spell slot be spent even though the Cartomancer rules do not explicitly require the expenditure of a spell slot.
"Cartomancer
Prerequisite: 4th Level, Spellcasting Feature
You have learned to channel your magic through a deck of cards. You can use a card deck as your spellcasting focus, and you gain the following benefits:
Card Tricks. You learn the Prestidigitation cantrip and can use it to create illusions that duplicate the effects of stage magic. When you use Prestidigitation in this way, you can conceal the verbal and somatic components of the spell as ordinary conversation and card handling.
Hidden Ace. When you finish a long rest, you can choose one spell from your class’s spell list and imbue that spell into a card. The chosen spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and it must be a level for which you have spell slots. The card remains imbued with this spell for 8 hours. While the card is imbued with the spell, you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and cast the spell within. The card then immediately loses its magic."
Cartomancer states that "The card then immediately loses its magic." after the spell is expended. Only a consumable magic item can lose its magic. A non-magic item doesn't have any magic in the first place. Given that explicit statement in the feat, I think it is fairly clear that the card IS a magic item.
Also, not every magic item has a rarity. The artificer spell storing item allows a creature to cast a spell from it using the Magic action. Though the wording in this case has the creature "produce the spell's effect" rather than "cast" it. There is also no explicit reference to it being a magic item (though it does contain spells and requires a Magic action to use - perhaps implying that it is a magic item) while in the case of Cartomancer, the card does explicitly become non-magical when the spell is expended.
Another example of creating a magic item is the 2014 Devotion Paladin Sacred Weapon channel divinity that explicitly makes the weapon magical if it isn't already. This is another magic item without a rarity. Of course, 2024 rules removed this aspect since they removed the concept of magical vs non-magical damage and instead use damage types.
Various source books also contain magic items without explicit rarities - whether that was an oversight or whether the item was just considered unique would be up to the author but the fact that Cartomancer doesn't assign a rarity to a consumable magic item that is created as a part of the feat does not indicate that the card is not a magic item - especially if it explicitly loses its magic after use.
That is not how you create Magic Items. An item only becomes a Magic Item when a feature says it is a Magic Item. There are rules for creating a Magic Items and for this to be an exception, it must say that it creates a Magic Item. "It shares one statement that is similar to a feature of some Magic Items" is not sufficient.
Look at an Artificer's Spell-storing Item. Once you store a spell in the item, you can now use an action to produce the effect of the spell. It never uses the word "cast". We cannot say "well, casting a spell produces the effect of the spell so this must be casting the spell." It doesn't work that way.
No, I believe there were early oversights, but by the time of the Cartomancer feat publication, I think that was no longer the case.
No, the spell-storing item is not a Magic Item unless an infused/replicated item was used. The Cartomancer never says that card becomes magical and never says it becomes non-magical. It says it is imbued with a spell and loses its magic, which are different statements.
Exactly, it's not making it a +1 weapon, it's allowing it to bypass damage resistance. I mean effectively it's a +X weapon, but not technically. It says the weapon is magical, explicitly. Cartomancer never says the card is magical.
Cartomancer needs to state that it is a magic item, not that it is not a magic item. When you cast Light on an object it has magic but is not a magic item. You can't cast Light on a slingstone and expect it to bypass damage resistance. It can be lost without the item ever being a Magic Item.
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First, as background I only recently became aware of this feat (one of my players showed it to me), and I've spent the last several days reading up on all threads I can find on it because it is definitely, as many other users have pointed out, very poorly worded.
Second, the major distinction between the two interpretations is if this feat makes the card a magical object. Rules as written i don’t think its clear as many have pointed out it doesn’t say it makes the object magical many other feature which make an item magical say that, but there are 2 things I feel like I should point out first 2014 magical initiate didnt’ you you didnt need a spell slot it it said you used the feat to cast the spell this feat says you use the card to cast the spell. Other than the noun being different these are very similarly worded and the clarification we got on magic initiate says that it doesn’t take a slot. Second many people have said that the Word imbue appear nowhere in 5th editions rule and isn’t defined, but what’s interesting abou that is that is does appear in one rule in 5th edition that I can find and thats the 2014 artificers infuse item ability “You've gained the ability to imbue mundane items with certain magical infusions, turning those objects into magic items.” (emphasis mine) now in this instance it cleary states that imbuing the mundane item makes it a magic item and I will certainly allow that not saying that on Cartomancer leaves a fair interpretation that it doesn’t, but I don’t see how anyone can seriously argue that under the common language rules interpretation saying the card is a magic item is not based on valid reasoning pulled from rules sources specifically if we look to the rest of the 2014 artificer they have 3 different abilities which put magic on stuff and they all use different words for magical tinkering you “invest a spark of magic” and for spell storing item you “store a spell in an object” those 2 abilities don’t call the item a magic item, but they don’t use the word imbue
Third, that being said there are still 2 interpretations of this half of the feat. The first is a feature that grants you access to a once a day bonus action cast of an action spell which uses a slot when cast and has to be selected at the start of each day from your spell list. This has value to several build types bards sorcerers paladins and rangers get utility out of open access to their spell list for 1 spell per day (the rangers and paladins less due to their ability to change 1 spell per long rest rather than per level up) sorcerers and bards in particular can find value in having access to 3 4th level spell options at level 7 3 5th level options at 9 etc. paladin rangers bladesinger wizards and valor bards will probably find more use out of the bonus action conversion due to the extra attack ability. This feels like a good feat. not a feat every caster must or even should take, but I can see builds that would use it and cool combos that a reminiscent of metamagic adept for quicken spell (which also works out to 1 use per day but can be any spell you know instead of 1 spell from your list picked at the top of the day). In contrast to this we have a feat that grants once per day double cast. Also it gives you a bonus vancian spell slot of your highest level for a spell you didn’t even think you needed to learn until this morning. So at 5th level you’ve got 2 fireballs in a single round the only other way to really get that is sorcerer quicken spell and a wand so a feat that functions on its own as a once per day use of a powerful class feature plus a rare magic item. Notably the class feature in question is strong enough to be considered a solid feat all on its own (yeah metamagic adept does more than just quicken but so does cartomancer)and that’s just 3rd level spells it gets so much more powerful the top end being something like 2 turn 1 meteor swarms on your BBEG (and probably everybody else he brought to the fight). Honestly short of a spell scroll how many magic items cast 7th plus level spells, and this feat is fine because they exist so a sorcerer could do it if they get the right very rare or legendary item? If we are talking about spell scrolls I know 5e characters are galactically wealthy at high level, but how much money does a feat need to generate in magic consumables saved to move that needle? I know I said its a fair rules interpretation to say it makes a magic item (and I think it is one of the 2 fair interpretations), and maybe in 2014 rules when it didn’t grant nearly automatic double cast a vancian spell slot per day at your highest level wasn’t too crazy for a feat; but under 2024 rules if this feat makes the card a magic item this feat is BANANAS.
So in closing at my table I don’t think it will be a magic item and you will have to spend a spell slot when you cast the spell. I have heard several people say that this interpretation meansI want to take the fun away from my players, but I don’t quite simply none of us want the other people we’re playing with not to have fun. It has just been my experience that anything that lets 1 character at a table absolutely obliterate 1 encounter per day on the first round of combat is fun for that player, and maybe the first time they do it it’s cool for the rest of the table, and maybe if it comes from spell scrolls and quicken metamagic it’s fung because the table feel agency over the decision to invest that resource in that fight (last time my group used a necklace of fireballs to kill 3 wyverns it didn’t matter who threw the beads). But when the whomping of the century is 1 fight every day and it’s always the same character delivering said whomping it gets old. That’s why we strive for balance and it’s why if you think nerf this feat is anti fun I think you should consider all the players at your table that didn’t take an overpowered feat. and if you’re running a game where you full casters need double casting to keep up with the martials please share your secrets because if I can implement half of what you’ve done at your table I might have achieve martial caster balance after level 6 (THE DREAM).