I mean, based on personal experience and observations, it'd be an uncommon campaign where you end up with enough scrolls that the bookkeeping is not easy in 5e. Making anything above 2nd level takes a week or more each, so unless you take a months long time skip during the campaign you're not going to have much opportunity to make many. And the gold cost spikes pretty good at 4th level as well. I've never seen them handed out much as rewards/loot either.
Regarding tracking, the scroll stats are standardized by level in 5e, and it's not particularly hard to write "Scroll of Cure Wounds (1st level), Scroll of Cure Wounds (4th level), etc." I dunno, the logistics don't seem particularly daunting if you have one of those small note pads to write the list on.
What I was talking about happened back in either 1e or 2e when scrolls of different levels were handed out in adventures and making them for your own characters was easier to do and sort of expected as a way to stretch spell slots and overcome the challenges of having to prepare each spell in each slot every morning. After having accumulated and cast and replaced and accumulated more and cast more there were some lines on the page I couldn’t use anymore they had gotten so thin from eraser erosion.
5E got rid of a lot of spells that helped make magic items. In the name of simplicity. Eventually they replaced this lost ability with actual classes that create magic items. Nothing like keeping it simple.
As for scrolls its not just keeping track of the level that it was cast/created at but think about ALL the other spells that could be turned into scrolls. All the Buff, defense and attack spells would have to have their casters ability bonuses, plus level cast at, recorded also.
And my favorite question for players. Do you want NPC's to also have this ability? Why are there no other scrolls up cast just laying about or even for sale? Hundreds of characters could have lost them over the last thousand years. No world is so static that no other characters could not possibly travel through it at the same time. Or even previous times.
5E got rid of a lot of spells that helped make magic items. In the name of simplicity. Eventually they replaced this lost ability with actual classes that create magic items. Nothing like keeping it simple.
As for scrolls its not just keeping track of the level that it was cast/created at but think about ALL the other spells that could be turned into scrolls. All the Buff, defense and attack spells would have to have their casters ability bonuses, plus level cast at, recorded also.
And my favorite question for players. Do you want NPC's to also have this ability? Why are there no other scrolls up cast just laying about or even for sale? Hundreds of characters could have lost them over the last thousand years. No world is so static that no other characters could not possibly travel through it at the same time. Or even previous times.
But, anyone can make magic items now. They just need the appropriate skills and ingredients. It is pretty simple. Well, as simple or complicated as any given table wants it to be.
As far as finding pre-upcast scrolls out in the world, why not? A DM could easily put them in. The game just assumes they're made at the lowest level possible to keep the random treasure tables from getting even more unwieldy.
But making an upcast scroll, again, why not? So long as you spend the gold and time for the higher-level version, as others have said. Then the bookkeeping is on the player to track which scroll they're using. If a character wants a 4th-level fireball, and they want to spend 2 weeks of downtime and 2500 gp (as opposed to 1 week and 500 gp) just to get an extra d6, have at it.
Having been inspired by this thread, I have come to the conclusion that no, you cannot scribe an upcast spell.
per the SAC: Unless you have a special ability that says otherwise, the only way to increase the level of a spell is to expend a higher-level spell slot when you cast it
Spell scrolls do not have spell slots, and do not have any special rules indicating that they can be of a higher level than base level. And since spell scrolls are casting a spell without expending a spell slot (as they are magic items), they must be cast at base level. Even when using the DMG spell scroll scribing rules, you are expending a spell slot, sure... and the material components are consumed... but there's no verbal or somatic components, ergo you are not casting the spell, and as such, the scroll can only ever be at base level.
My issue with this is in my mind and my DMs when crafting. I essentially am casting it to make it in the process. So I do use that spell slot. I mean if magic has to come from somewhere otherwise you would have a BBEGs somewhere educating hicks enough to mass produce scroll. The materials to craft a scroll are inert catalysts until the magic is poured into it.
Having been inspired by this thread, I have come to the conclusion that no, you cannot scribe an upcast spell.
per the SAC: Unless you have a special ability that says otherwise, the only way to increase the level of a spell is to expend a higher-level spell slot when you cast it
Spell scrolls do not have spell slots, and do not have any special rules indicating that they can be of a higher level than base level. And since spell scrolls are casting a spell without expending a spell slot (as they are magic items), they must be cast at base level. Even when using the DMG spell scroll scribing rules, you are expending a spell slot, sure... and the material components are consumed... but there's no verbal or somatic components, ergo you are not casting the spell, and as such, the scroll can only ever be at base level.
My issue with this is in my mind and my DMs when crafting. I essentially am casting it to make it in the process. So I do use that spell slot. I mean if magic has to come from somewhere otherwise you would have a BBEGs somewhere educating hicks enough to mass produce scroll. The materials to craft a scroll are inert catalysts until the magic is poured into it.
*essentially* casting it is not the same as actually casting it. casting a spell requires using the spell's components (all of them), which may include using a spell slot.
Crafting a scroll using the DMG rules only says to have the material components on hand and to expend the spell slot. That's not [Tooltip Not Found], that's just using specific rules to craft a scroll.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Having been inspired by this thread, I have come to the conclusion that no, you cannot scribe an upcast spell.
per the SAC: Unless you have a special ability that says otherwise, the only way to increase the level of a spell is to expend a higher-level spell slot when you cast it
Spell scrolls do not have spell slots, and do not have any special rules indicating that they can be of a higher level than base level. And since spell scrolls are casting a spell without expending a spell slot (as they are magic items), they must be cast at base level. Even when using the DMG spell scroll scribing rules, you are expending a spell slot, sure... and the material components are consumed... but there's no verbal or somatic components, ergo you are not casting the spell, and as such, the scroll can only ever be at base level.
My issue with this is in my mind and my DMs when crafting. I essentially am casting it to make it in the process. So I do use that spell slot. I mean if magic has to come from somewhere otherwise you would have a BBEGs somewhere educating hicks enough to mass produce scroll. The materials to craft a scroll are inert catalysts until the magic is poured into it.
*essentially* casting it is not the same as actually casting it. casting a spell requires using the spell's components (all of them), which may include using a spell slot.
Crafting a scroll using the DMG rules only says to have the material components on hand and to expend the spell slot. That's not Cast A Spell, that's just using specific rules to craft a scroll.
Well for me this is a moot point. My DM and I have come to agreement as to how it works. To clarify as far as creation based on my DMs choice I do expend a spell slot.
Having been inspired by this thread, I have come to the conclusion that no, you cannot scribe an upcast spell.
per the SAC: Unless you have a special ability that says otherwise, the only way to increase the level of a spell is to expend a higher-level spell slot when you cast it
Spell scrolls do not have spell slots, and do not have any special rules indicating that they can be of a higher level than base level. And since spell scrolls are casting a spell without expending a spell slot (as they are magic items), they must be cast at base level. Even when using the DMG spell scroll scribing rules, you are expending a spell slot, sure... and the material components are consumed... but there's no verbal or somatic components, ergo you are not casting the spell, and as such, the scroll can only ever be at base level.
My issue with this is in my mind and my DMs when crafting. I essentially am casting it to make it in the process. So I do use that spell slot. I mean if magic has to come from somewhere otherwise you would have a BBEGs somewhere educating hicks enough to mass produce scroll. The materials to craft a scroll are inert catalysts until the magic is poured into it.
*essentially* casting it is not the same as actually casting it. casting a spell requires using the spell's components (all of them), which may include using a spell slot.
Crafting a scroll using the DMG rules only says to have the material components on hand and to expend the spell slot. That's not Cast A Spell, that's just using specific rules to craft a scroll.
Well for me this is a moot point. My DM and I have come to agreement as to how it works. To clarify as far as creation based on my DMs choice I do expend a spell slot.
...but expending the spell slot isn't the same as casting the damn spell. That's the point I was making.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Why the heck do you think the spell slot is spent? I CAST the spell into the awaiting vessel ie. the scroll. I don't randomly mark off i spent a spell slot and not cast a spell that would be pointless. The fact i had to spell it out... just wow. I am done
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What I was talking about happened back in either 1e or 2e when scrolls of different levels were handed out in adventures and making them for your own characters was easier to do and sort of expected as a way to stretch spell slots and overcome the challenges of having to prepare each spell in each slot every morning. After having accumulated and cast and replaced and accumulated more and cast more there were some lines on the page I couldn’t use anymore they had gotten so thin from eraser erosion.
5E got rid of a lot of spells that helped make magic items. In the name of simplicity.
Eventually they replaced this lost ability with actual classes that create magic items. Nothing like keeping it simple.
As for scrolls its not just keeping track of the level that it was cast/created at but think about ALL the other spells that could be turned into scrolls. All the Buff, defense and attack spells would have to have their casters ability bonuses, plus level cast at, recorded also.
And my favorite question for players. Do you want NPC's to also have this ability?
Why are there no other scrolls up cast just laying about or even for sale? Hundreds of characters could have lost them over the last thousand years. No world is so static that no other characters could not possibly travel through it at the same time. Or even previous times.
Caster’s ability isn’t a factor for scrolls in 5e; to hit or DC are fixed by the level of the spell.
But, anyone can make magic items now. They just need the appropriate skills and ingredients. It is pretty simple. Well, as simple or complicated as any given table wants it to be.
As far as finding pre-upcast scrolls out in the world, why not? A DM could easily put them in. The game just assumes they're made at the lowest level possible to keep the random treasure tables from getting even more unwieldy.
But making an upcast scroll, again, why not? So long as you spend the gold and time for the higher-level version, as others have said. Then the bookkeeping is on the player to track which scroll they're using. If a character wants a 4th-level fireball, and they want to spend 2 weeks of downtime and 2500 gp (as opposed to 1 week and 500 gp) just to get an extra d6, have at it.
My issue with this is in my mind and my DMs when crafting. I essentially am casting it to make it in the process. So I do use that spell slot. I mean if magic has to come from somewhere otherwise you would have a BBEGs somewhere educating hicks enough to mass produce scroll. The materials to craft a scroll are inert catalysts until the magic is poured into it.
*essentially* casting it is not the same as actually casting it. casting a spell requires using the spell's components (all of them), which may include using a spell slot.
Crafting a scroll using the DMG rules only says to have the material components on hand and to expend the spell slot. That's not [Tooltip Not Found], that's just using specific rules to craft a scroll.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Well for me this is a moot point. My DM and I have come to agreement as to how it works. To clarify as far as creation based on my DMs choice I do expend a spell slot.
...but expending the spell slot isn't the same as casting the damn spell. That's the point I was making.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Why the heck do you think the spell slot is spent? I CAST the spell into the awaiting vessel ie. the scroll. I don't randomly mark off i spent a spell slot and not cast a spell that would be pointless. The fact i had to spell it out... just wow. I am done