The previous Stone Shape thread was locked and frankly, it was the sort of thing that felt a little munchkin-y. Not that I don’t indulge in that now and again, but I’d like to talk about something else here.
The rules state that you can form a 5x5 mass of rock and stone into any shape you like,” such as a “weapon, statue, or coffer.” It limits the mechanical complexity to that of two hinges and a latch, but it says nothing about the artistic complexity of the shape. Given that things like weapons and statues are apparently fair game, it stands to reason that a fairly detailed and high quality level of shaping is expected, right? Maybe?
Is it possible to shape the rock into a Maul if you already have a wooden handle? I would say yes, since “a weapon” is absolutely within the bounds of the spell. Given that the spell doesn’t say that the weapon would be of inferior quality, I might also suggest that it’s possible to create a stone rapier of the same size and shape as a typical rapier, only that it is made of stone so it is not subject to rust or corrosion. Not that that comes up a lot in D&D, but it is relevant sometimes.
Would you need a relevant Tool Proficiency skill to make these weapons? The spell doesn’t say. Presumably, you do not. It is absolute fantasy to just pick up a stone longbow and have it be functionally identical to any other mundane longbow, but it doesn’t seem particularly broken to suggest that that’s doable.
What about maps? Is it possible to instantly create a high-quality map mural of an area that you know, given that you are familiar with the area and have the Cartographer Tool proficiency? If you’re a halfling, could you instantly reshape any handy boulder into a life-sized statue of yourself pointing the way to anyone who might come after you? If it’s possible to create a map, can you create an epic? It’s 5x5 feet of rock. Can you instantly create several panels of finely etched writing such that you can communicate the contents of a short book? It says you can create two hinges and a latch. Can you make a statue with a secret compartment?
5x5 is a fairly sizable insta-room for a halfling or a gnome. Can you use Stone Shape to make an instant room with shelves and a bed, and a hinged stone door? It’d be like a really small Galder’s Tower except it’s actually permanent. Might be useful on roads frequented by travelers.
These questions are for DM to answer as Stone Shape doesn't really address these details specifically.
I don't think you need proficiency to create an object, but you probably should have seen it or otherwise have a good idea of what it's like at least. Personally, I have my reserve on the amount of details the spell can produce as the object you create can have up to two hinges and a latch, but finer mechanical detail isn’t possible. The level of detail in a room or map if possible would be up to DM for sure. For example, sculpting stone into a 5 feet room bunk bed, a table and 4 cube chair may be great use if allowed.
Great question! For me as a DM, I love utility spells like this because it allows players to use their imagination and do things I might not have thought of before! But I'm always careful to make sure their use of such a spell isn't copying or making obsolete a higher-level spell.
For your more specific questions:
Weapons: Can you form the stone into a maul? I don't see why not. The spell specifically says you can create weapons, and a maul isn't overly complicated and is bludgeoning, so I would probably allow it, It would be mundane and not have any additional properties, so I don't see how this would be OP. I would draw the line at more complex weapons like a firearm (obviously), a bow, a crossbow, etc. The weapon still has to work with a bit of logic, and stone can't bend to make a bow or crossbow work.
Maps: Here I would probably allow it, given that I can't imagine how this would be OP. However I would probably call for a History check or something similar to see how well the person shaping the stone actually remembered the layout of the area, and the roll would determine how detailed and accurate the map was. I wouldn't say you would need a tool proficiency for this, but if you did have a Cartographer's Tools proficiency I would allow you to add your Proficiency Bonus to the roll if it wasn't already applied, or maybe give advantage.
Statue: Sure, I see no reason you couldn't make a statue of yourself or something/someone else, although again I might call for a Skill Check to determine how detailed/accurate it might be. Could it have a hidden compartment? Sure, if you can give it hinges it could have a very basic hidden compartment, but again might have a Skill Check to determine how well hidden this entirely-stone hidden compartment is.
Little halfling-sized room: Sure, I don't really see a problem with this. Stone Shape is a 4th level spell and Tiny Hut is a 3rd level spell. Tiny Hut in general gives a better shelter (larger, can be camouflaged to a certain extent, can let only certain people in, etc.) but isn't permanent, so using a higher level spell slot for a similar purpose but it makes a permanent shelter doesn't seem OP to me. I kind of like the idea of a character going on trails and roads, creating pop-up shelters for travelers along the way!
it specifically allows, weapon, statue or coffer. and a 5 by 5 by 5 coffer could be a halfling room. heck normal sized people could sleep in it a bit curled up, aka coffin motels. Now I'd require some kind of skill check if you want a piece of art to determine how well you succeeded, i would not require training but id require a roll. I wish this spell had some upcasting so you could use it for larger effects , but oh well. its a 1 action spell so in theory it can be used in a fight, kind of hard pressed to come up with realistic scenarios for that working but niche getting through wall of a trapped room type thing can happen. but generally id just say fabricate is the better option, it takes 10 minutes but it can do the same stuff with 5 feet of stone and metal, and a lot more than 5 feet if its not stone or metal. fabricate is not limited to 2 hinges etc and can have finer mechanical detail but it does include this disclaimer You also can’t use it to create items that require a high degree of skill—such as weapons and armor—unless you have proficiency with the type of Artisan’s Tools used to craft such objects which stone shape doesn't.
It's interesting that it specifically calls out "weapon, statue, or coffer" as specific points of limits, since a crossbow and a musket are both standard D&D weapons, so presumably it explicitly allows you to make those.
Would it allow you to make armor without having the Smith Tool Proficiency? Presumably. Cheap way to get Plate Armor. Can't sell it without ringing up the local Armorer's Guild first, of course.
It seems explicitly intended to allow you to throw up makeshift fortifications, provided you can locate a big enough boulder. A 5x5 space is plenty when you just want something to hide behind. The short cast also allows you to partially block passageways if they're made of rock and only 5 feet to a side, or pass straight through walls and stone doors if you already know enemies are on the other side. You could make things like a tiny boat, if your character understands the concept of buoyancy. Probably need a Nature or Arcana check for that.
I don't think it would be a working crossbow as that just is not how stone works. Even more simple weapons like a sword im a questioning its functionality. stone is pretty heavy, and its brittle etc. a sledge, sure, other weapons very limited use if at all.
And yeah sure you can make a 5 foot wall for a quick fortification, but is making something people can just walk around how I want to spend my round. and yes in niche situations where you are holding a door or something it will stop enemies from getting through/following you. but it requires it to be a stone building, 5 foot wide doors, and you to need to block the door. How often will all of those things combine.
Boat not sure if it would work given its size/density but i like the idea at least, but you'd have to make it thin and light enough that what ever cavity you make within 5ft creates enough buoyancy. Given most stones density, I think that is unlikely, but i like the idea at least. but im not a scientist, so id likely roll with it if the players found it plausible.
I don't think it would be a working crossbow as that just is not how stone works. Even more simple weapons like a sword im a questioning its functionality. stone is pretty heavy, and its brittle etc. a sledge, sure, other weapons very limited use if at all.
And yeah sure you can make a 5 foot wall for a quick fortification, but is making something people can just walk around how I want to spend my round. and yes in niche situations where you are holding a door or something it will stop enemies from getting through/following you. but it requires it to be a stone building, 5 foot wide doors, and you to need to block the door. How often will all of those things combine.
Boat not sure if it would work given its size/density but i like the idea at least, but you'd have to make it thin and light enough that what ever cavity you make within 5ft creates enough buoyancy. Given most stones density, I think that is unlikely, but i like the idea at least. but im not a scientist, so id likely roll with it if the players found it plausible.
It really depends on the qualities of the stone. Stone can be pliable and elastic. Some additions might be necessary for a crossbow or a bow, or a musket. But these are listed weapons, and the spell says you can make that. It's also not really broken. Some of the minor Magic Weapon properties list weapons and armor being made of unusual materials. Why not a stone longsword? It's a fantasy world and we're literally using magic to make it.
As for how often things are made of stone and involve tunnels that could be 5 feet across - well dungeons are known to have features like that. Remarkably enough.
As for density...
Granite is about 2.67 g/cm3. Water is 1, course.
For the container to have a lower density than water only requires the right shape. Steel notably has a higher density than granite. A stone boat would float better than a steel one.
The issue with making stone boats isn't density but workability. There have been concrete ships.
The question is whether the Wizard understands this concept. Archimedes did, but many shipbuilders in the Middle Ages did not.
The previous Stone Shape thread was locked and frankly, it was the sort of thing that felt a little munchkin-y. Not that I don’t indulge in that now and again, but I’d like to talk about something else here.
The rules state that you can form a 5x5 mass of rock and stone into any shape you like,” such as a “weapon, statue, or coffer.” It limits the mechanical complexity to that of two hinges and a latch, but it says nothing about the artistic complexity of the shape. Given that things like weapons and statues are apparently fair game, it stands to reason that a fairly detailed and high quality level of shaping is expected, right? Maybe?
Is it possible to shape the rock into a Maul if you already have a wooden handle? I would say yes, since “a weapon” is absolutely within the bounds of the spell. Given that the spell doesn’t say that the weapon would be of inferior quality, I might also suggest that it’s possible to create a stone rapier of the same size and shape as a typical rapier, only that it is made of stone so it is not subject to rust or corrosion. Not that that comes up a lot in D&D, but it is relevant sometimes.
Would you need a relevant Tool Proficiency skill to make these weapons? The spell doesn’t say. Presumably, you do not. It is absolute fantasy to just pick up a stone longbow and have it be functionally identical to any other mundane longbow, but it doesn’t seem particularly broken to suggest that that’s doable.
What about maps? Is it possible to instantly create a high-quality map mural of an area that you know, given that you are familiar with the area and have the Cartographer Tool proficiency? If you’re a halfling, could you instantly reshape any handy boulder into a life-sized statue of yourself pointing the way to anyone who might come after you? If it’s possible to create a map, can you create an epic? It’s 5x5 feet of rock. Can you instantly create several panels of finely etched writing such that you can communicate the contents of a short book? It says you can create two hinges and a latch. Can you make a statue with a secret compartment?
5x5 is a fairly sizable insta-room for a halfling or a gnome. Can you use Stone Shape to make an instant room with shelves and a bed, and a hinged stone door? It’d be like a really small Galder’s Tower except it’s actually permanent. Might be useful on roads frequented by travelers.
These questions are for DM to answer as Stone Shape doesn't really address these details specifically.
I don't think you need proficiency to create an object, but you probably should have seen it or otherwise have a good idea of what it's like at least. Personally, I have my reserve on the amount of details the spell can produce as the object you create can have up to two hinges and a latch, but finer mechanical detail isn’t possible. The level of detail in a room or map if possible would be up to DM for sure. For example, sculpting stone into a 5 feet room bunk bed, a table and 4 cube chair may be great use if allowed.
Great question! For me as a DM, I love utility spells like this because it allows players to use their imagination and do things I might not have thought of before! But I'm always careful to make sure their use of such a spell isn't copying or making obsolete a higher-level spell.
For your more specific questions:
it specifically allows, weapon, statue or coffer. and a 5 by 5 by 5 coffer could be a halfling room. heck normal sized people could sleep in it a bit curled up, aka coffin motels. Now I'd require some kind of skill check if you want a piece of art to determine how well you succeeded, i would not require training but id require a roll. I wish this spell had some upcasting so you could use it for larger effects , but oh well. its a 1 action spell so in theory it can be used in a fight, kind of hard pressed to come up with realistic scenarios for that working but niche getting through wall of a trapped room type thing can happen. but generally id just say fabricate is the better option, it takes 10 minutes but it can do the same stuff with 5 feet of stone and metal, and a lot more than 5 feet if its not stone or metal. fabricate is not limited to 2 hinges etc and can have finer mechanical detail but it does include this disclaimer You also can’t use it to create items that require a high degree of skill—such as weapons and armor—unless you have proficiency with the type of Artisan’s Tools used to craft such objects which stone shape doesn't.
It's interesting that it specifically calls out "weapon, statue, or coffer" as specific points of limits, since a crossbow and a musket are both standard D&D weapons, so presumably it explicitly allows you to make those.
Would it allow you to make armor without having the Smith Tool Proficiency? Presumably. Cheap way to get Plate Armor. Can't sell it without ringing up the local Armorer's Guild first, of course.
It seems explicitly intended to allow you to throw up makeshift fortifications, provided you can locate a big enough boulder. A 5x5 space is plenty when you just want something to hide behind. The short cast also allows you to partially block passageways if they're made of rock and only 5 feet to a side, or pass straight through walls and stone doors if you already know enemies are on the other side. You could make things like a tiny boat, if your character understands the concept of buoyancy. Probably need a Nature or Arcana check for that.
I don't think it would be a working crossbow as that just is not how stone works. Even more simple weapons like a sword im a questioning its functionality. stone is pretty heavy, and its brittle etc. a sledge, sure, other weapons very limited use if at all.
And yeah sure you can make a 5 foot wall for a quick fortification, but is making something people can just walk around how I want to spend my round. and yes in niche situations where you are holding a door or something it will stop enemies from getting through/following you. but it requires it to be a stone building, 5 foot wide doors, and you to need to block the door. How often will all of those things combine.
Boat not sure if it would work given its size/density but i like the idea at least, but you'd have to make it thin and light enough that what ever cavity you make within 5ft creates enough buoyancy. Given most stones density, I think that is unlikely, but i like the idea at least. but im not a scientist, so id likely roll with it if the players found it plausible.
It really depends on the qualities of the stone. Stone can be pliable and elastic. Some additions might be necessary for a crossbow or a bow, or a musket. But these are listed weapons, and the spell says you can make that. It's also not really broken. Some of the minor Magic Weapon properties list weapons and armor being made of unusual materials. Why not a stone longsword? It's a fantasy world and we're literally using magic to make it.
As for how often things are made of stone and involve tunnels that could be 5 feet across - well dungeons are known to have features like that. Remarkably enough.
As for density...
Granite is about 2.67 g/cm3. Water is 1, course.
For the container to have a lower density than water only requires the right shape. Steel notably has a higher density than granite. A stone boat would float better than a steel one.
The issue with making stone boats isn't density but workability. There have been concrete ships.
The question is whether the Wizard understands this concept. Archimedes did, but many shipbuilders in the Middle Ages did not.