That's false. Cover is not required to make an attacker an Unseen Attacker. The requirement is: "When a creature can't see you".
The reason you cannot see a creature behind a wall or whatever is because the wall is opaque total cover. RAW as written, not only can a swallowing creature see its victim, it can attack its victim. This is very unlikely to be the intended result, but any time you change the rules, even if it's in support of RAI, that's a house rule.
That's false. Cover is not required to make an attacker an Unseen Attacker. The requirement is: "When a creature can't see you".
The reason you cannot see a creature behind a wall or whatever is because the wall is opaque total cover.
Again, the concept of cover has nothing to do with it. The reason you cannot see a creature behind a wall is because you cannot see through walls. Whether or not I can successfully attack that creature is irrelevant to the determination of whether or not I can see it.
Restrained says: "your attack rolls have Disadvantage."
Simple. Well defined. Done.
There is no need to overcomplicate that.
. . .
If youre swallowed by a monster, youre restrained, and restrained means your attacks have disadvantage. Simple. Done. Everyone gets it.
The main purpose of this section of the forums is to discuss the RAW. Level of complexity is irrelevant -- it's about what does the text actually say.
Yes, when you have the Restrained condition, it means that your attacks have disadvantage. But the rules do not support the notion that the analysis of the situation is "done" at that point. Instead, this is what the rules actually say on that subject:
If multiple situations affect a roll and they all grant Advantage on it, you still roll only two d20s. Similarly, if multiple situations impose Disadvantage on a roll, you roll only two d20s.
If circumstances cause a roll to have both Advantage and Disadvantage, the roll has neither of them, and you roll one d20. This is true even if multiple circumstances impose Disadvantage and only one grants Advantage or vice versa. In such a situation, you have neither Advantage nor Disadvantage.
RAI: if the writer's intended that they likely would've mentioned it (instead of just mentioning the two conditions that grant disadvantage). It seems like it didn't occur to them.
One thing that 2024 has made clear is that the designers wanted less text, not more. So arguments like "if the devs wanted this, they would have written it" are rarely valid.
I agree on principle, but I'd still allow for it not occurring to the devs. While I provided a link to the RAW answer, I feel it'd be problematic to not accept a different interpretation by your DM as a valid here. The length of this discussion is good indicator that both interpretations are common.
So, the rule says "you are restrained so you get disadvantage on attacks" but the argument is that thr designers assumes the dm will figure out that: the monster cannot see you attack it, therefore you also get advantage on your attacks, and all that cancels out to give a bog standard attack roll?
If the reason the designers didnt want to write a lot of text, why not just say attacks made while swallowed are unaffected by advantage or disadvantage.
The argument that "the designers just didnt put it in there to save space" is doing a massive amount of heavy lifting in this argument.
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“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire
This reminds me of the thread about necklace of adaptation which says it allows the wearer to breath in any environment, and some dm posted that they wont let the player breath in a vacuum because its not an "environement".
Such a simple description for the item, and some folks have to complicate things.
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“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire
No, it can't. The feature contains no text about being able to see through its own body.
The feature says that the swallowed creature is blinded, restrained, and has total cover from effects outside of the swallowing creature. Period. It doesn't address the creature seeing through its own body because the creature doesn't need to see through it's own body.
The 'cover' in the ability description is the body of the swallowing creature. That cover does not apply to the swallowing creature. Therefore, the swallowing creature's body is not in the way.
Being swallowed breaks so many different assumptions that you cant just decide, oh, i will apply the rules for standard combat to this weird corner case.
Normally, you cant stop your movement in another creatures space without going prone.
Normally line of sight says trace lines from the 4 corners of your space to the enemys space. But your both in the same square when swallowed
Folks who are taking standard combat rules and applying it to being swallowed are handwaving all the things about being swallowed that would disqualify the rule from applying at all.
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“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire
Up next: attacking inanimate objects are always done at advatntage because they cant see you.
Fortunately, the rule says "When a creature can’t see you, you have Advantage on attack rolls against it." Objects are not creatures (however, the invisible condition does not have the same restriction).
Up next: attacking inanimate objects are always done at advatntage because they cant see you.
Fortunately, the rule says "When a creature can’t see you, you have Advantage on attack rolls against it." Objects are not creatures (however, the invisible condition does not have the same restriction).
It was meant to be as ridiculous as the idea of being swallowed and expecting to swing a long sword with a normal attack roll.
OnePiece showed that the stomach of a whale is big enough to hold a small suburban neighborhood. But google says a trex stomach might have been the size of a 50 gallon drum. Barely big enough for a medium sized creature to fit inside. Now imagine being stuffed into a leathery stomach the size of a 50 gallon barrel and it wraps around you like a sausage casing, the weight of various internal organs pin you in place, and you expect to do ANYTHING normal?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire
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The reason you cannot see a creature behind a wall or whatever is because the wall is opaque total cover. RAW as written, not only can a swallowing creature see its victim, it can attack its victim. This is very unlikely to be the intended result, but any time you change the rules, even if it's in support of RAI, that's a house rule.
Again, the concept of cover has nothing to do with it. The reason you cannot see a creature behind a wall is because you cannot see through walls. Whether or not I can successfully attack that creature is irrelevant to the determination of whether or not I can see it.
No, it can't. The feature contains no text about being able to see through its own body. Features only do what they say.
The main purpose of this section of the forums is to discuss the RAW. Level of complexity is irrelevant -- it's about what does the text actually say.
Yes, when you have the Restrained condition, it means that your attacks have disadvantage. But the rules do not support the notion that the analysis of the situation is "done" at that point. Instead, this is what the rules actually say on that subject:
So, the rule says "you are restrained so you get disadvantage on attacks" but the argument is that thr designers assumes the dm will figure out that: the monster cannot see you attack it, therefore you also get advantage on your attacks, and all that cancels out to give a bog standard attack roll?
If the reason the designers didnt want to write a lot of text, why not just say attacks made while swallowed are unaffected by advantage or disadvantage.
The argument that "the designers just didnt put it in there to save space" is doing a massive amount of heavy lifting in this argument.
“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire
This reminds me of the thread about necklace of adaptation which says it allows the wearer to breath in any environment, and some dm posted that they wont let the player breath in a vacuum because its not an "environement".
Such a simple description for the item, and some folks have to complicate things.
“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire
The feature says that the swallowed creature is blinded, restrained, and has total cover from effects outside of the swallowing creature. Period. It doesn't address the creature seeing through its own body because the creature doesn't need to see through it's own body.
The 'cover' in the ability description is the body of the swallowing creature. That cover does not apply to the swallowing creature. Therefore, the swallowing creature's body is not in the way.
Being swallowed breaks so many different assumptions that you cant just decide, oh, i will apply the rules for standard combat to this weird corner case.
Normally, you cant stop your movement in another creatures space without going prone.
Normally line of sight says trace lines from the 4 corners of your space to the enemys space. But your both in the same square when swallowed
Folks who are taking standard combat rules and applying it to being swallowed are handwaving all the things about being swallowed that would disqualify the rule from applying at all.
“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire
Up next: attacking inanimate objects are always done at advatntage because they cant see you.
“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire
Fortunately, the rule says "When a creature can’t see you, you have Advantage on attack rolls against it." Objects are not creatures (however, the invisible condition does not have the same restriction).
It was meant to be as ridiculous as the idea of being swallowed and expecting to swing a long sword with a normal attack roll.
OnePiece showed that the stomach of a whale is big enough to hold a small suburban neighborhood. But google says a trex stomach might have been the size of a 50 gallon drum. Barely big enough for a medium sized creature to fit inside. Now imagine being stuffed into a leathery stomach the size of a 50 gallon barrel and it wraps around you like a sausage casing, the weight of various internal organs pin you in place, and you expect to do ANYTHING normal?
“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire