But does the 5e players handbook mention that it takes you to a demiplane? The SRD doesn't mention anything about going to another plane and leaves it open as to whether or not the spell goes through the prismatic wall in some shape or form.
At the very least unless you and the person with you can cast shape change you aren't likely to be doing well.
I always stated that even in the astral plane you find a barrier where the prismatic wall is, so the one who were trying to cross it should "fight" against the one who casted it.
But then again, that's up to you, do whatever you fell is right. Not all the answeres are in the rules, no matter the edition. ;)
Since dimension door teleports you to a demiplane and then places you at your desired destination, it technically doesn't pass through the prismatic wall, so it would work. At least that's how I would rule it. Doesn't mean you've bypassed the effects of the prismatic wall/sphere, but now you're inside. Except now you're inside with a caster who has access to very high level spells and you're probably blind.
There's nothing in any of the source books that indicates teleportation makes you travel to another plane first and THEN to the teleportation point. The magic is instantaneous, and there's no travelling through any other spaces to arrive at the destination. You simply are where you started one second, and then instantly in the other area the next (second in this case is a figure of speech, since the travel is instantaneous, it's more like you are there one second, and then in that same second you are somewhere else).
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
But is this true across editions? I mean I've heard teleportation spells use the astral plane and am assuming that comes from a previous edition of D&D or at least a source book from a previous edition. It is a widely held belief that teleportation uses another plane, so I assume it had to originate from somewhere.
If you want to introduce some "power fighting" maybe a contested roll between the magic abilities of the two spellcasters, or a roll form the caster trying to enter against the spell ability of the caster of the Wall.
I like that idea.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
But is this true across editions? I mean I've heard teleportation spells use the astral plane and am assuming that comes from a previous edition of D&D or at least a source book from a previous edition. It is a widely held belief that teleportation uses another plane, so I assume it had to originate from somewhere.
To be honest, I'm not sure. I know there were some spells/features that allowed you to travel through different planes (mostly astral and ethereal) to reach destinations, but I don't remember if that's how basic teleportation worked in those other editions.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
It seems like most spells that interfere with interdimensional travel also interfere with teleportation (and vice versa). See, for example, Magic Circle, Hallow, Forcecage, or Forbiddance (among others).
To engage in a little theorycrafting, they probably rely upon similar arcane principles - most likely, instead of moving/opening a portal between a point on one plane and a point on another plane, pure teleportation spells just move/open a portal between two points on the same plane. That's why spells usually affect both kinds of magical transportation.
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Kerrigan, gold dragonborn pact of the chain fiend warlock (8)/favored soul sorcerer (3): Survived Strahd Roland Crowe, stout halfling pirate (7): off working other angles while the party fights giants Alekhine Dorvanellyn, eladrin bladesinger (7): Fighting giants
After some research, the 3rd edition spell forcecage has this in its description "Teleportation and other forms of astral travelprovide a means of escape, but the force walls or bars extend into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel." However, as far as I can tell even in 3rd, the Teleport spell itself does not specifically mention astral travel.
However in the Paizo PRD and D20 SRD it specifically states "Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation." Though it isn't located in the spells description, but with the general discussion of spells schools under the Conjuration entry.
As far as I can tell this is not repeated in the 5th edition SRD (Haven't checked the PHB yet.)
I think the answer to this is really really simple. When a spell is designed to block magical means of travel or teleportation, they state so e.g: Magic Circle, Imprisonment etc. Prismatic Wall states that its effects are triggered when someone not designated at the start attempts to move through a layer of the wall.Dimension Door states that you instant arrive at your destination. This explicitly means there can be no state considered in transit. Because it's instant. Meaning you can't consider the person to pass through anything.
When a spell is designed to block magical means of travel or teleportation, they state so e.g: Magic Circle, Imprisonment etc. Prismatic Wall states that its effects are triggered when someone not designated at the start attempts to move through a layer of the wall.
Dimension Door states that you instant arrive at your destination via teleportation. This explicitly means there can be no state where the caster is considered in transit. Because it's instant. Meaning you can't consider the person to pass through anything.
Additionally, spells that reach into other planes - like Wall Of Force - state so in the spell description.
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~Never cruel nor cowardly; never give up, never give in.
D20 SRD it specifically states "Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation."
Correct, by D&D's historical canon: Teleporters briefly went through through the Astral plane (assuming the DM used the default cosmology of course). WotC hasn't explicitly stated this for 5e (likely to stay generic), but they've shown a desire to endorse past canon (for those that desire it).
tl:dr- it's optional fluff, but totally valid to use even in 5e.
That emphasis on instant is not one provided by RAW. Instant could just be the description of the time taken, so unlike misty step or teleport where you are "out of this world" for a moment, with dimension you "instantly" step through the door to the other location. A flavour piece
If instant has some special rule language emphasis surely it would be seen in the DMG such as with restrained or blinded .
I would say if the players agree that a teleportation spell doesn't remove someone from this plane, but "transports" them to it within this plane, the argument would be like any other spell in the process of being "transported" to your target you would have to pass through the wall. You are still attempting to "move" through a layer of wall, just not in the typical sense of movement. The fact you can choose your destination without seeing might not imply that you simply disappear at one point and reappear at the next without mechanical travel of some magical kind.
Well, the rules do not say anything about the magical energy has to make a clear path from the spellcaster to the point of origin.
But, in the end, it is up to the DM to decide how a spell is being created.
Except there is a clear rule saying that you do have to have a clear path.
PHB 204 says "To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind total cover.
If you place an area of effect at a point that you can’t see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction."
As per Sage Advice (link)- if your teleport ability has a set Range and the description says you can teleport in that Range, than you must have a direct line to that location. Prismatic Wall and Cube of Force will stop those spells. That means that spells DImension Door and Thunder Step can NOT go through a Prismatic Wall or Cube of Force.
But other abilities, such as the 2nd level Misty Step and the 7th level Teleport, do not use the Range in the spell description to determine where you can teleport to. As such, they CAN go through a Prismatic Wall or Cube of Force.
As per Sage Advice (link)- if your teleport ability has a set Range and the description says you can teleport in that Range, than you must have a direct line to that location. Prismatic Wall and Cube of Force will stop those spells. That means that spells DImension Door and Thunder Step can NOT go through a Prismatic Wall or Cube of Force.
But other abilities, such as the 2nd level Misty Step and the 7th level Teleport, do not use the Range in the spell description to determine where you can teleport to. As such, they CAN go through a Prismatic Wall or Cube of Force.
Except as was also previously stated, Dimension Door provides additional alternative targeting methods:
It can be a place you can see, one you can visualize, or one you can describe by stating distance and direction, such as “200 feet straight downward” or “upward to the northwest at a 45-degree angle, 300 feet.”
That specific part of the spell description overrides the general rule on spell targeting.
As per Sage Advice (link)- if your teleport ability has a set Range and the description says you can teleport in that Range, than you must have a direct line to that location. Prismatic Wall and Cube of Force will stop those spells. That means that spells DImension Door and Thunder Step can NOT go through a Prismatic Wall or Cube of Force.
But other abilities, such as the 2nd level Misty Step and the 7th level Teleport, do not use the Range in the spell description to determine where you can teleport to. As such, they CAN go through a Prismatic Wall or Cube of Force.
I disagree with the interpretation that Dimension Door is treated differently from Misty Step and Teleport just because it has a "range" value that says 500'. Teleport has a range of 10' but is obviously intended to move creatures farther. Misty Step has a range of self. (It is certainly one interpretation but it isn't the only one).
The wording of dimension door is:
"You teleport yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You arrive at exactly the spot desired. It can be a place you can see, one you can visualize, or one you can describe by stating distance and direction, such as "200 feet straight downward" or "upward to the northwest at a 45- degree angle, 300 feet."
You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed what you can carry. You can also bring one willing creature of your size or smaller who is carrying gear up to its carrying capacity. The creature must be within 5 feet of you when you cast this spell."
The spellcasting rules state:
"The target of a spell must be within the spell’s range."
They also state:
"A Clear Path to the Target
To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind total cover.
If you place an area of effect at a point that you can’t see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction."
The teleport spell says:
"This spell instantly transports you and up to eight willing creatures of your choice that you can see within range, or a single object that you can see within range, to a destination you select. If you target an object, it must be able to fit entirely inside a 10-foot cube, and it can't be held or carried by an unwilling creature.
The destination you choose must be known to you, and it must be on the same plane of existence as you. Your familiarity with the destination determines whether you arrive there successfully. The GM rolls d100 and consults the table.
The first sentence doesn't refer to "target" at all. If it wasn't for the second sentence placing additional restrictions on objects to be teleported, the word "target" would not appear in the spell description.
--------------------------
So, put it all together -
In dimension door, the target has to be within the range. The text for dimension door gives other options for choosing a destination but it does NOT state that the spell is an exceptional to the rules that there must be a line of effect to the target. For both Misty Step and Teleport, the targets are the creatures being transported and the destination is not the target of the spell.
Dimension Door is consistent with the rules on range and the rules of a line of effect to the target and the way that Misty Step and Teleport work IF the first words of the Dimension Door spell "You teleport yourself" is interpreted as defining the TARGET of the dimension door spell just like all the other teleportation spells. Are you within 500' of where the spell is cast? Then yes you would be a valid target of the spell. The destination can be any of the locations determined by the spell mechanics. These don't need to worry about the spell targeting rules because the destination is not the target of the spell. Nothing in the spell description says "you teleport to your target" ... it says "you teleport to any other spot within range".
The only reason to assume that the destination is the target of the spell is because the choice of the destination location is limited by the range of the spell.
Why doesn't Dimension Door have a range of Self? Because it can target more than one creature. Dimension Door could have been written with a Range of 5' and then text describing where to go - however, unlike Teleport, the caster MUST be one of the creature's teleporting so the Range is really Self (5' radius) (but this terminology didn't really exist when the PHB was written. So instead, the writer may have chosen to specify the Range as 500' to limit the destination and make it obvious but that doesn't mean the target of the spell is the location of the destination since both the caster and any creatures moved AS WELL AS the destination chosen are both within 500'.
Making the caster and possible passenger the target avoids possible conflicts with the Line of Effect rules (though the text of Dimension Door could be read as an exception to those rules) ... however, that is unnecessary if the caster+passenger are the targets as is the case in every other teleportation spell.
Anyway, that is how I interpret it and run it. It is consistent with RAW since the target is within the 500' range and nothing in the spell description indicates that the destination is intended to be the target of the spell AND the other teleportation spells make the creatures/objects being teleported the targets. So for consistency with the other spells and consistency with the spell targeting rules, I use the caster+passenger as the target of the Dimension Door spell with the destination required to be within 500' as the spell states.
P.S. The situation becomes a DM decision because the rules for deciding exactly what constitutes the target of a spell are not well defined (as several recent discussions have shown) and few spell descriptions use the word target in a consistent way (as shown by the targets of fireball being both a point in space and the creatures within the Area of Effect of the spell).
Crawford contradicts himself within the space of three tweets on whether misty step would work to get past the indigo layer of a prismatic wall, so citing that particular exchange for any reason other than lulz seems like a poor choice
dimension door works for all the reasons Ace and David provided
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Active characters:
Askatu, hyperfocused vedalken freedom fighter in Wildspace (Zealot barb/Swashbuckler rogue/Battle Master fighter) Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
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But does the 5e players handbook mention that it takes you to a demiplane? The SRD doesn't mention anything about going to another plane and leaves it open as to whether or not the spell goes through the prismatic wall in some shape or form.
At the very least unless you and the person with you can cast shape change you aren't likely to be doing well.
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
But is this true across editions? I mean I've heard teleportation spells use the astral plane and am assuming that comes from a previous edition of D&D or at least a source book from a previous edition. It is a widely held belief that teleportation uses another plane, so I assume it had to originate from somewhere.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
It seems like most spells that interfere with interdimensional travel also interfere with teleportation (and vice versa). See, for example, Magic Circle, Hallow, Forcecage, or Forbiddance (among others).
To engage in a little theorycrafting, they probably rely upon similar arcane principles - most likely, instead of moving/opening a portal between a point on one plane and a point on another plane, pure teleportation spells just move/open a portal between two points on the same plane. That's why spells usually affect both kinds of magical transportation.
Kerrigan, gold dragonborn pact of the chain fiend warlock (8)/favored soul sorcerer (3): Survived Strahd
Roland Crowe, stout halfling pirate (7): off working other angles while the party fights giants
Alekhine Dorvanellyn, eladrin bladesinger (7): Fighting giants
After some research, the 3rd edition spell forcecage has this in its description "Teleportation and other forms of astral travel provide a means of escape, but the force walls or bars extend into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel." However, as far as I can tell even in 3rd, the Teleport spell itself does not specifically mention astral travel.
However in the Paizo PRD and D20 SRD it specifically states "Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation." Though it isn't located in the spells description, but with the general discussion of spells schools under the Conjuration entry.
As far as I can tell this is not repeated in the 5th edition SRD (Haven't checked the PHB yet.)
I think the answer to this is really really simple. When a spell is designed to block magical means of travel or teleportation, they state so e.g: Magic Circle, Imprisonment etc. Prismatic Wall states that its effects are triggered when someone not designated at the start attempts to move through a layer of the wall.Dimension Door states that you instant arrive at your destination. This explicitly means there can be no state considered in transit. Because it's instant. Meaning you can't consider the person to pass through anything.
When a spell is designed to block magical means of travel or teleportation, they state so e.g: Magic Circle, Imprisonment etc. Prismatic Wall states that its effects are triggered when someone not designated at the start attempts to move through a layer of the wall.
Dimension Door states that you instant arrive at your destination via teleportation. This explicitly means there can be no state where the caster is considered in transit. Because it's instant. Meaning you can't consider the person to pass through anything.
Additionally, spells that reach into other planes - like Wall Of Force - state so in the spell description.
~Never cruel nor cowardly; never give up, never give in.
That emphasis on instant is not one provided by RAW. Instant could just be the description of the time taken, so unlike misty step or teleport where you are "out of this world" for a moment, with dimension you "instantly" step through the door to the other location. A flavour piece
If instant has some special rule language emphasis surely it would be seen in the DMG such as with restrained or blinded .
I would say if the players agree that a teleportation spell doesn't remove someone from this plane, but "transports" them to it within this plane, the argument would be like any other spell in the process of being "transported" to your target you would have to pass through the wall. You are still attempting to "move" through a layer of wall, just not in the typical sense of movement. The fact you can choose your destination without seeing might not imply that you simply disappear at one point and reappear at the next without mechanical travel of some magical kind.
Ofc thats just a theory.
Except there is a clear rule saying that you do have to have a clear path.
PHB 204 says "To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind total cover.
If you place an area of effect at a point that you can’t see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction."
As per Sage Advice (link)- if your teleport ability has a set Range and the description says you can teleport in that Range, than you must have a direct line to that location. Prismatic Wall and Cube of Force will stop those spells. That means that spells DImension Door and Thunder Step can NOT go through a Prismatic Wall or Cube of Force.
But other abilities, such as the 2nd level Misty Step and the 7th level Teleport, do not use the Range in the spell description to determine where you can teleport to. As such, they CAN go through a Prismatic Wall or Cube of Force.
Except as was also previously stated, Dimension Door provides additional alternative targeting methods:
That specific part of the spell description overrides the general rule on spell targeting.
I disagree with the interpretation that Dimension Door is treated differently from Misty Step and Teleport just because it has a "range" value that says 500'. Teleport has a range of 10' but is obviously intended to move creatures farther. Misty Step has a range of self. (It is certainly one interpretation but it isn't the only one).
The wording of dimension door is:
"You teleport yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You arrive at exactly the spot desired. It can be a place you can see, one you can visualize, or one you can describe by stating distance and direction, such as "200 feet straight downward" or "upward to the northwest at a 45- degree angle, 300 feet."
You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed what you can carry. You can also bring one willing creature of your size or smaller who is carrying gear up to its carrying capacity. The creature must be within 5 feet of you when you cast this spell."
The spellcasting rules state:
"The target of a spell must be within the spell’s range."
They also state:
"A Clear Path to the Target
To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind total cover.
If you place an area of effect at a point that you can’t see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction."
The teleport spell says:
"This spell instantly transports you and up to eight willing creatures of your choice that you can see within range, or a single object that you can see within range, to a destination you select. If you target an object, it must be able to fit entirely inside a 10-foot cube, and it can't be held or carried by an unwilling creature.
The destination you choose must be known to you, and it must be on the same plane of existence as you. Your familiarity with the destination determines whether you arrive there successfully. The GM rolls d100 and consults the table.
The first sentence doesn't refer to "target" at all. If it wasn't for the second sentence placing additional restrictions on objects to be teleported, the word "target" would not appear in the spell description.
--------------------------
So, put it all together -
In dimension door, the target has to be within the range. The text for dimension door gives other options for choosing a destination but it does NOT state that the spell is an exceptional to the rules that there must be a line of effect to the target. For both Misty Step and Teleport, the targets are the creatures being transported and the destination is not the target of the spell.
Dimension Door is consistent with the rules on range and the rules of a line of effect to the target and the way that Misty Step and Teleport work IF the first words of the Dimension Door spell "You teleport yourself" is interpreted as defining the TARGET of the dimension door spell just like all the other teleportation spells. Are you within 500' of where the spell is cast? Then yes you would be a valid target of the spell. The destination can be any of the locations determined by the spell mechanics. These don't need to worry about the spell targeting rules because the destination is not the target of the spell. Nothing in the spell description says "you teleport to your target" ... it says "you teleport to any other spot within range".
The only reason to assume that the destination is the target of the spell is because the choice of the destination location is limited by the range of the spell.
Why doesn't Dimension Door have a range of Self? Because it can target more than one creature. Dimension Door could have been written with a Range of 5' and then text describing where to go - however, unlike Teleport, the caster MUST be one of the creature's teleporting so the Range is really Self (5' radius) (but this terminology didn't really exist when the PHB was written. So instead, the writer may have chosen to specify the Range as 500' to limit the destination and make it obvious but that doesn't mean the target of the spell is the location of the destination since both the caster and any creatures moved AS WELL AS the destination chosen are both within 500'.
Making the caster and possible passenger the target avoids possible conflicts with the Line of Effect rules (though the text of Dimension Door could be read as an exception to those rules) ... however, that is unnecessary if the caster+passenger are the targets as is the case in every other teleportation spell.
Anyway, that is how I interpret it and run it. It is consistent with RAW since the target is within the 500' range and nothing in the spell description indicates that the destination is intended to be the target of the spell AND the other teleportation spells make the creatures/objects being teleported the targets. So for consistency with the other spells and consistency with the spell targeting rules, I use the caster+passenger as the target of the Dimension Door spell with the destination required to be within 500' as the spell states.
P.S. The situation becomes a DM decision because the rules for deciding exactly what constitutes the target of a spell are not well defined (as several recent discussions have shown) and few spell descriptions use the word target in a consistent way (as shown by the targets of fireball being both a point in space and the creatures within the Area of Effect of the spell).
Crawford contradicts himself within the space of three tweets on whether misty step would work to get past the indigo layer of a prismatic wall, so citing that particular exchange for any reason other than lulz seems like a poor choice
dimension door works for all the reasons Ace and David provided
Active characters:
Askatu, hyperfocused vedalken freedom fighter in Wildspace (Zealot barb/Swashbuckler rogue/Battle Master fighter)
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)