I get the if you put a bag of holding in a bag of holding both are destroyed and anything in 5ft gets sucked into the astral plane but if you're in the astral plane can you do this to get out of said plane?
I like this idea. As mastercryomancer pointed out, it doesn't work by RAW, but most DMs would probably work with the idea in some way.
I wouldn't let you do that to leave the Astral Plane, but I would let it transport you to a different location on the Astral Plane.
Perhaps that new location just happens to be close to a natural portal to the Material Plane?
Perhaps the party is deposited right in front of a (probably startled!) creature that possesses the means to transport the party back to the Material Plane? The creature might offer to transport the party in exchange for completing a task, or maybe the creature will just do it for free! Good time for a persuasion check, or in acknowledgement of having irrevocably destroyed two valuable magic items to get there.
Perhaps and perhaps not. RAW, the description of the bag of holding says:
Placing a bag of holding inside an extradimensional space created by a handy haversack, portable hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane. The gate originates where the one item was placed inside the other. Any creature within 10 feet of the gate is sucked through it to a random location on the Astral Plane. The gate then closes. The gate is one-way only and can’t be reopened.
If the practitioners of the gate opening were one or two artificers that had just infused the bags of holding and if they had decent supply/access to mundane bags, I'd be quite tempted to stick to at least start with the random location stipulation of RAW.
If a world allowed gates to the astral plane to be opened via the use of artificer infused bags of holding then openings of such gates might become relatively common events.
Questions might then be raised as to how powers related to the astral plane might react. Perhaps populations of the victims of artificers or even of artificers themselves might develop. Maybe there would malevolent or benevolent individuals and groups that would get into habits of preying on or help creatures that gated in.
Depending on the scale at which gate opening occurred, I could imagine that interest parties might include, say, the occasional gnome that had made or knew someone who had made similar mistakes in their youth. And it might not necessarily all be for charity. Perhaps any costs charged could escalate depending on the number of previous times that a visitor gated in.
Related topic- the wording of “Any creature within 10 feet of the gate is sucked through it to a random location on the Astral Plane” is a bit ambiguous. If there are multiple creatures involved, do they go to the same random location or does each end up at its own random location?
Related topic- the wording of “Any creature within 10 feet of the gate is sucked through it to a random location on the Astral Plane” is a bit ambiguous. If there are multiple creatures involved, do they go to the same random location or does each end up at its own random location?
That's left to the DM to decide :) Which is fair, since this exploit tends to throw a wrench into the campaign...
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Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Huh... Various responses to various stuff in prior postings -
A. Sending the Tarrasque to the Astral Plane: Should you manage this because your DM allows the 'all extra-dimensional-spaces somehow have something to do with the Astral Plane' rules, it would be quite effective since travel / speed in the Astral is INT based and the Tarrasque has a 3. It's still a melee chainsaw of doom, but it also has a few issues with catching things while Astralized. Well done.
B. Extra Dimensional Space: The bag of holding description does NOT include this. RAW, it won't gate / portal / suck / pitch / otherwise-send anyone anywhere.
C. Stacking: You can't normally make two Enlarge spells function on the same target. Multiple BoH's are explicitly the same thing doing the same magical effect. They simpley do NOT go 'Fwwooshy-sucky-to-Astal-Plane' because they explicitly do NOT mention having an "extradimensional space" AND they'd violate the Stacking rules.
D. "But it HAS to be an extra-dimensional space!" Nope. Maybe it's just an expansion of the space already existing inside the bag, sort of like a tiny replication of the way everything, space included, expanded during the big bang; no dimensional connectivity involved, just more widely spaced space. So, if you put a BoH into a BoH, the bag inserted does not gain super-attenuated extra-mega-expanded space within it, it just turns inside out and you have a non-functional bag inside a bag of holding.
e. Don't like the rule about extradimensional spaces interacting with mutually assured annihilation? House rule it that Extra-Dimensional-Space is only functional while within a Standard-Dimensional-Space because it's the same effect and violates the stacking rules and therefore you CANNOT actually get one inside another. Then NONE of the bags, quivers, Porta-holies, etc. will work inside of each other and they ALL just dump whatever is in the InnerExtraSpace into the OutermostExtraSpace. Why? Magical Physics 101! What, your players didn't take that course at Strixhaven? Toooo bad, sooooo sad.
A. Sending the Tarrasque to the Astral Plane: Should you manage this because your DM allows the 'all extra-dimensional-spaces somehow have something to do with the Astral Plane' rules, it would be quite effective since travel / speed in the Astral is INT based and the Tarrasque has a 3. It's still a melee chainsaw of doom, but it also has a few issues with catching things while Astralized. Well done.
This is false. It only applies to the Astral Sea, not the entire Astral Plane, and it's an optional effect while in the Astral Plane.
B. Extra Dimensional Space: The bag of holding description does NOT include this. RAW, it won't gate / portal / suck / pitch / otherwise-send anyone anywhere.
C. Stacking: You can't normally make two Enlarge spells function on the same target. Multiple BoH's are explicitly the same thing doing the same magical effect. They simpley do NOT go 'Fwwooshy-sucky-to-Astal-Plane' because they explicitly do NOT mention having an "extradimensional space" AND they'd violate the Stacking rules.
Not how the stacking rules work. Your logic would apply if the Bag of Holding was a spell and someone attempted to cast the spell on a bag already under the effects of the spell.
D. "But it HAS to be an extra-dimensional space!" Nope. Maybe it's just an expansion of the space already existing inside the bag, sort of like a tiny replication of the way everything, space included, expanded during the big bang; no dimensional connectivity involved, just more widely spaced space. So, if you put a BoH into a BoH, the bag inserted does not gain super-attenuated extra-mega-expanded space within it, it just turns inside out and you have a non-functional bag inside a bag of holding.
This is false. If the bag were simply expanded on the inside, you'd be able to open the top of the bag to allow a creature inside to breathe.
Your interpretation of the Big Bang (and space in general) is also incorrect, but this is not the right space (hah!) for a physics lesson. The amount of hard vacuum in the universe is, so far as we know, infinite and always has been, and has never "expanded" in any meaningful sense.
putting a Bag of Holding inside a Bag of Holding does **NOT** destroy both bags and cause astral rift.
Evidence, RAW *and* RAI :
description of Bag of Holding does not include BoH as an item that causes the rift
the items that do cause rift when combined with BoH are explicitly stated: Handy's Haversack and Portable Hole
if BoH was one of the items that also combine with BoH for a rift, it would be trivial to explicitly say so in the description, and yet it does not.
the fact that Portable Hole and Handy's Haversack both refer to combining with BoH as causing rift, does not at all follow that combining BoH with BoH causes rift
Handy's Haversack and Portable Hole are RARE items. Portable Hole is merely UNCOMMON. Players should not have so much power with a couple uncommon items, typically found by low-level adventurers..
putting a full bag of holding carrying 500 pounds into another full bag of holding, means that a character can carry 985 pounds worth of stuff as if it were only 15 pounds. This is not outrageous, or even exceptional.
if you have a problem with a 3rd level character using a couple uncommon items to lug out 985 pounds of gear or loot (when two adventurers with one bag each does the same thing), but you DONT have a problem with sending an entire party of 3rd level adventurers into the astral plane because some clever player wants to "see what happens"... well, thats your business, but it's not a correct reading of the rules as written or intended
call me inflexible, but I'm not reading the rules creatively to allow low level characters that much control over driving an adventure into the weeds. if i want them to go to the astral plane, i'll make an adventure for such a thing. If i'm okay with them deciding they want to go on a whim, i'll pass out a Portable Hole or Handy's Haversack.
Pretty sure that it does, you're missing the term "or other similar items", which voers the bag of holding. Here's some examples:
Bag of holding text (emphasis mine):
Placing a bag of holding inside an extradimensional space created by a Handy Haversack, Portable Hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane.
Handy Haversack says:
Placing the haversack inside an extradimensional space created by a Bag of Holding, Portable Hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane.
So by this, we can say that the portable hole and handy haversack are "similar" to one another (ref quote 1), and that a bag of holding and a portable hole are "similar" to one another (Ref quote 2), so by these 3 being similar to each other, we can fairly safely say that a bag of holding is a similar item which creates a magical extradimensional space, and so putting one inside the other is not going to go well!
From my understanding, the portal to the Astral Plane is a result of the failure of the extradimensional space magic.
I think if a bag of holding is put inside another bag of holding while on the Astral Plane, the bags will be destroyed, and one of three things will happen. 1. You will be taken to a different location in the Astral Plane. 2. Nothing will happen. 3. A portal to the Material Plane opens.
I don't even have it working like this in my campaign. I asked 3 physics graduates and none of them said it would even remotely occur this way if these items existed.
Look back at Thoruk’s post and reread the section from the handy haversack - it states that the bag of holding is an extra dimensional space. That answers the question about stacking bags of holding to increase carrying capacity - no you can’t. Then, we have other extra dimensional spaces we have to consider from an arcane tent to Mord’s mansion - take your bag of holding into any of them ( anything that does say it has an extra dimensional space ( like a warlock’s resting area) and it’s “welcome to the astral plane”. Of course since your out in the plane not on a spell jammer you don’t need to eat, sleep and don’t age while you travel, at the speed of thought, directly towards what ever destination your thinking of. Question, How long can you stay focused on your destination without thinking of a different one and veering off corse?
So my question is what happens to the creature sucked into the astral plane if those creatures are also carrying bags of holding? Do those bags also get destroyed? Do they also opens up other holes to the astral plane?
So my question is what happens to the creature sucked into the astral plane if those creatures are also carrying bags of holding? Do those bags also get destroyed? Do they also opens up other holes to the astral plane?
Nothing else happens. The magic effect occurs due to the direct interaction of two items which are destroyed. The magic effect is not an item itself.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I don't even have it working like this in my campaign. I asked 3 physics graduates and none of them said it would even remotely occur this way if these items existed.
Lol wut?
I'm just curious what relevance opinions on actual physics have to do with fantasy magic items that create extra-dimensional spaces in a universe which contains various versions of the Prime Material plane, the ethereal plane, the astral plane, demiplanes, and many other planes of existence.
If someone came up with a realistic physics theory of how these would function using real world physics sufficient to say that the interacting fields of two extra-planar dimensional generators would obviously not open a portal to the Astral plane when placed in close contact, then I'd be curious to see it :)
However, indulging fantasy physics ... every plane is surrounded by the astral plane. You can enter the astral plane from anywhere using Astral Projection or other abilities. The Astral interpenetrates every plane. This includes both the prime material and private demiplanes. As such, it seems not unreasonable to me from a fantasy physics perspective than placing an extra dimensional space generator (eg bag of holding) inside another such generator would cause interference such that the generators are destroyed and a temporary rift between the prime material and the astral is opened at the location where the interaction occurred. Again because the astral is literally everywhere. Seems to hang together from a fantasy physics perspective to me. :)
If you transport the Tarrasque to the the astral plane maybe it becomes an Astral Dreadnaught.
Perhaps and perhaps not. RAW, the description of the bag of holding says:
Placing a bag of holding inside an extradimensional space created by a handy haversack, portable hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane. The gate originates where the one item was placed inside the other. Any creature within 10 feet of the gate is sucked through it to a random location on the Astral Plane. The gate then closes. The gate is one-way only and can’t be reopened.
If the practitioners of the gate opening were one or two artificers that had just infused the bags of holding and if they had decent supply/access to mundane bags, I'd be quite tempted to stick to at least start with the random location stipulation of RAW.
If a world allowed gates to the astral plane to be opened via the use of artificer infused bags of holding then openings of such gates might become relatively common events.
Questions might then be raised as to how powers related to the astral plane might react. Perhaps populations of the victims of artificers or even of artificers themselves might develop. Maybe there would malevolent or benevolent individuals and groups that would get into habits of preying on or help creatures that gated in.
Depending on the scale at which gate opening occurred, I could imagine that interest parties might include, say, the occasional gnome that had made or knew someone who had made similar mistakes in their youth. And it might not necessarily all be for charity. Perhaps any costs charged could escalate depending on the number of previous times that a visitor gated in.
I would say that they both lose their power, but also create a blast that incinerates all matter in a 15 ft sphere.
Related topic- the wording of “Any creature within 10 feet of the gate is sucked through it to a random location on the Astral Plane” is a bit ambiguous. If there are multiple creatures involved, do they go to the same random location or does each end up at its own random location?
That's left to the DM to decide :) Which is fair, since this exploit tends to throw a wrench into the campaign...
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Huh... Various responses to various stuff in prior postings -
A. Sending the Tarrasque to the Astral Plane: Should you manage this because your DM allows the 'all extra-dimensional-spaces somehow have something to do with the Astral Plane' rules, it would be quite effective since travel / speed in the Astral is INT based and the Tarrasque has a 3. It's still a melee chainsaw of doom, but it also has a few issues with catching things while Astralized. Well done.
B. Extra Dimensional Space: The bag of holding description does NOT include this. RAW, it won't gate / portal / suck / pitch / otherwise-send anyone anywhere.
C. Stacking: You can't normally make two Enlarge spells function on the same target. Multiple BoH's are explicitly the same thing doing the same magical effect. They simpley do NOT go 'Fwwooshy-sucky-to-Astal-Plane' because they explicitly do NOT mention having an "extradimensional space" AND they'd violate the Stacking rules.
D. "But it HAS to be an extra-dimensional space!" Nope. Maybe it's just an expansion of the space already existing inside the bag, sort of like a tiny replication of the way everything, space included, expanded during the big bang; no dimensional connectivity involved, just more widely spaced space. So, if you put a BoH into a BoH, the bag inserted does not gain super-attenuated extra-mega-expanded space within it, it just turns inside out and you have a non-functional bag inside a bag of holding.
e. Don't like the rule about extradimensional spaces interacting with mutually assured annihilation? House rule it that Extra-Dimensional-Space is only functional while within a Standard-Dimensional-Space because it's the same effect and violates the stacking rules and therefore you CANNOT actually get one inside another. Then NONE of the bags, quivers, Porta-holies, etc. will work inside of each other and they ALL just dump whatever is in the InnerExtraSpace into the OutermostExtraSpace. Why? Magical Physics 101! What, your players didn't take that course at Strixhaven? Toooo bad, sooooo sad.
This is false. It only applies to the Astral Sea, not the entire Astral Plane, and it's an optional effect while in the Astral Plane.
A creature doesn’t need a vessel to travel through the Astral Sea. In this realm, a traveler has the option of propelling itself by thought alone. The more intelligent a creature is, the faster it can move. A creature that chooses to move in this fashion can move in any direction at a flying speed in feet equal to 5 × its Intelligence score.
This is false.
Placing a bag of holding inside an extradimensional space created by a handy haversack, portable hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane. The gate originates where the one item was placed inside the other. Any creature within 10 feet of the gate is sucked through it to a random location on the Astral Plane. The gate then closes. The gate is one-way only and can’t be reopened.
Not how the stacking rules work. Your logic would apply if the Bag of Holding was a spell and someone attempted to cast the spell on a bag already under the effects of the spell.
This is false. If the bag were simply expanded on the inside, you'd be able to open the top of the bag to allow a creature inside to breathe.
Your interpretation of the Big Bang (and space in general) is also incorrect, but this is not the right space (hah!) for a physics lesson. The amount of hard vacuum in the universe is, so far as we know, infinite and always has been, and has never "expanded" in any meaningful sense.
putting a Bag of Holding inside a Bag of Holding does **NOT** destroy both bags and cause astral rift.
Evidence, RAW *and* RAI :
if you have a problem with a 3rd level character using a couple uncommon items to lug out 985 pounds of gear or loot (when two adventurers with one bag each does the same thing), but you DONT have a problem with sending an entire party of 3rd level adventurers into the astral plane because some clever player wants to "see what happens"... well, thats your business, but it's not a correct reading of the rules as written or intended
call me inflexible, but I'm not reading the rules creatively to allow low level characters that much control over driving an adventure into the weeds. if i want them to go to the astral plane, i'll make an adventure for such a thing. If i'm okay with them deciding they want to go on a whim, i'll pass out a Portable Hole or Handy's Haversack.
Did you miss the "or similar item" in the list of items that can cause the destruction?
Pretty sure that it does, you're missing the term "or other similar items", which voers the bag of holding. Here's some examples:
Bag of holding text (emphasis mine):
Handy Haversack says:
So by this, we can say that the portable hole and handy haversack are "similar" to one another (ref quote 1), and that a bag of holding and a portable hole are "similar" to one another (Ref quote 2), so by these 3 being similar to each other, we can fairly safely say that a bag of holding is a similar item which creates a magical extradimensional space, and so putting one inside the other is not going to go well!
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itd be better than the astral plane
From my understanding, the portal to the Astral Plane is a result of the failure of the extradimensional space magic.
I think if a bag of holding is put inside another bag of holding while on the Astral Plane, the bags will be destroyed, and one of three things will happen.
1. You will be taken to a different location in the Astral Plane.
2. Nothing will happen.
3. A portal to the Material Plane opens.
I don't even have it working like this in my campaign. I asked 3 physics graduates and none of them said it would even remotely occur this way if these items existed.
Look back at Thoruk’s post and reread the section from the handy haversack - it states that the bag of holding is an extra dimensional space. That answers the question about stacking bags of holding to increase carrying capacity - no you can’t.
Then, we have other extra dimensional spaces we have to consider from an arcane tent to Mord’s mansion - take your bag of holding into any of them ( anything that does say it has an extra dimensional space ( like a warlock’s resting area) and it’s “welcome to the astral plane”. Of course since your out in the plane not on a spell jammer you don’t need to eat, sleep and don’t age while you travel, at the speed of thought, directly towards what ever destination your thinking of. Question, How long can you stay focused on your destination without thinking of a different one and veering off corse?
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
So my question is what happens to the creature sucked into the astral plane if those creatures are also carrying bags of holding? Do those bags also get destroyed? Do they also opens up other holes to the astral plane?
Nothing else happens. The magic effect occurs due to the direct interaction of two items which are destroyed. The magic effect is not an item itself.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Lol wut?
I'm just curious what relevance opinions on actual physics have to do with fantasy magic items that create extra-dimensional spaces in a universe which contains various versions of the Prime Material plane, the ethereal plane, the astral plane, demiplanes, and many other planes of existence.
If someone came up with a realistic physics theory of how these would function using real world physics sufficient to say that the interacting fields of two extra-planar dimensional generators would obviously not open a portal to the Astral plane when placed in close contact, then I'd be curious to see it :)
However, indulging fantasy physics ... every plane is surrounded by the astral plane. You can enter the astral plane from anywhere using Astral Projection or other abilities. The Astral interpenetrates every plane. This includes both the prime material and private demiplanes. As such, it seems not unreasonable to me from a fantasy physics perspective than placing an extra dimensional space generator (eg bag of holding) inside another such generator would cause interference such that the generators are destroyed and a temporary rift between the prime material and the astral is opened at the location where the interaction occurred. Again because the astral is literally everywhere. Seems to hang together from a fantasy physics perspective to me. :)
Some parts of string theory say that two planes of existence touched and caused the big bang. Seriously.
It also says that the touching is random in place and time. So essentially the next big bang could happen right here and we would all just poof.