The Sleight of Hand check, in this case, would be to hide the VSM components of casting the spell. If the Dragon can see you casting, that kind of undermines trying to convince it that you have been granted fire immunity. Charisma would not help you hide your hand movements or incantations.
@Maestrino Well see thats the thing about how fire itself works. Not in every scenario of course, but generally the more light a flame can produce, the hotter it is. Therefore in this situation, if you are able to control the brightness of a flame from thaumaturgy, it doesnt make sense to me how you could dim a flame by......70% but it is still just as hot as if you hadnt. Thats where my confusion is coming from.
I just meant that by the rules, as an example, sure - you can dim the flames of a campfire. But if you step in the dimmed campfire, the DM is still going to make you take your 1d8 fire damage.
Red dragons are arrogant and covetous. You might be better off just bribing it with a shiny gift and a promise of a more valuable gift later. Or offering to do it a service by eliminating a problem for the dragon. (Though present it as a somewhat annoying problem the mighty dragon could no doubt handle in an instant if it wasn't so unworthy as to be beneath the mighty dragon's dignity to bother. And cower and act like potential slaves.)
Red dragons think they are the chosen of Tiamat to rule over everything and everyone else. Approach it as an equal and it's going to murder you all just to show that it can. Or to prove that you're not as tough as you claim to be.
The Sleight of Hand check, in this case, would be to hide the VSM components of casting the spell. If the Dragon can see you casting, that kind of undermines trying to convince it that you have been granted fire immunity. Charisma would not help you hide your hand movements or incantations.
thaumaturgy only requires a verbal component so I still think a CHA (sleight of hand) can be considered since 1) Affecting the arcane words may be effected by your spellcasting skill and method of casting.. There's no dexterous movements involved
2) You're [slightly] modifying the way the spell works, so again, your spellcasting skill may come into play
Personally, I wouldn't allow that. You're not changing the spell, you're trying to hide the fact that you're casting it. Maybe a performance check to do the Somatic without moving your lips. I assume you're referring to this from the PHB:
Variant: Skills with Different Abilities
Normally, your proficiency in a skill applies only to a specific kind of ability check. Proficiency in Athletics, for example, usually applies to Strength checks. In some situations, though, your proficiency might reasonably apply to a different kind of check. In such cases, the DM might ask for a check using an unusual combination of ability and skill, or you might ask your DM if you can apply a proficiency to a different check. For example, if you have to swim from an offshore island to the mainland, your DM might call for a Constitution check to see if you have the stamina to make it that far. In this case, your DM might allow you to apply your proficiency in Athletics and ask for a Constitution (Athletics) check. So if you're proficient in Athletics, you apply your proficiency bonus to the Constitution check just as you would normally do for a Strength (Athletics) check. Similarly, when your half-‐‑orc barbarian uses a display of raw strength to intimidate an enemy, your DM might ask for a Strength (Intimidation) check, even though Intimidation is normally associated with Charisma.
To me, Charisma doesn't "reasonably apply" to Sleight of Hand, especially since, as you said, you're not using your hands. But at your table, if you're cool with it, by all means let them give it a shot.
Guys... Thaumaturgy does not work this way. It only allows you to change the color and level of illumination of an existing flame. It does not stop flames from existing, expanding, or damaging.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I personally wouldn't require a Sleight of Hand check, because I don't want to have too many rolls as to not make the idea impossible to pull of, and also because I believe the caster would be hidden by the fiery inferno of the dragon's breath anyway.
Guys... Thaumaturgy does not work this way. It only allows you to change the color and level of illumination of an existing flame. It does not stop flames from existing, expanding, or damaging.
That is a great point, I forgot to read the spell #oops. As mentioned though, control flames might be perfect for this.
To survive, I would say buy or steal a wagon with a half dozen calves or pigs and offer them to the dragon as an initial offering. Or better yet, buy a calf, polymorph it into a young elf and pretend you are offering a major sacrifice. Then run/back away and don't return until everybody is level 10, etc.
I was contemplating being all like (using thaumaturgy to make voice 3X as loud) "great and mighty dragon of red! The most beautiful, merciful and powerful goddess of all, Tiamat, came to me in a dream. In exchange for granting me a very small amount of her power over fire and able to understand draconic, she made me spy on the humans on her behalf, and try to discover any knowledge they have to free her and her might from her prison!" (ask the red dragon to blow his powerful flame, and as he does it I use thaumaturgy again to change the color of the fire to match Tiamats 5 heads). "it is my hopes that we can work together in this endeavor, perhaps take down a silver dragon or two in the process!"
I also have the spell (i forgot what it is, but basically I create a flame that doesn't hurt me or my equipment) so I was planning on basically lighting my entire body with this and try to further show that the same God that we "both worship" and she has protected me.....maybe have the colors of said flame alternate between the 5 as well, idk
This is basically how I was looking to run this little bit here. I would appreciate any suggestions......because this is like the only other way I can think of us getting out of this alive...
I was contemplating being all like (using thaumaturgy to make voice 3X as loud) "great and mighty dragon of red! The most beautiful, merciful and powerful goddess of all, Tiamat, came to me in a dream. In exchange for granting me a very small amount of her power over fire and able to understand draconic, she made me spy on the humans on her behalf, and try to discover any knowledge they have to free her and her might from her prison!" (ask the red dragon to blow his powerful flame, and as he does it I use thaumaturgy again to change the color of the fire to match Tiamats 5 heads). "it is my hopes that we can work together in this endeavor, perhaps take down a silver dragon or two in the process!"
This is basically how I was looking to run this little bit here. I would appreciate any suggestions......because this is like the only other way I can think of us getting out of this alive...
Oh well that's a straight up Deception check, maybe with Advantage if your DM thinks it's impressive enough. Yeah that's a legitimate use of Thaumaturgy in my opinion.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Can someone else cast Absorb Elements on you beforehand? Alternatively, do you have a Nature Cleric in your party?
Sadly no, we got a archer ranger, dumb fighter of some kind, a cleric of....life (?) that thinks he can detect evil just because, and myself a warlock for my beautiful patron, Queen of Ravens with tome of ancient secrets or something.....
You're both right. I forgot that Resistances don't stack in 5e and that this spell is Self. And I guess you don't have a 10th level Druid in your party, either. Oh, right. Well, don't I feel dumb?
You're both right. I forgot that Resistances don't stack in 5e and that this spell is Self. And I guess you don't have a 10th level Druid in your party, either. Oh, right. Well, don't I feel dumb?
hey its cool man, i do appreciate the information you are providing. It allows me to try to look into alternative more viable options to somehow not KILL US ALL! So I really appreciate it!
Guys... Thaumaturgy does not work this way. It only allows you to change the color and level of illumination of an existing flame. It does not stop flames from existing, expanding, or damaging.
I was contemplating being all like (using thaumaturgy to make voice 3X as loud) "great and mighty dragon of red! The most beautiful, merciful and powerful goddess of all, Tiamat, came to me in a dream. In exchange for granting me a very small amount of her power over fire and able to understand draconic, she made me spy on the humans on her behalf, and try to discover any knowledge they have to free her and her might from her prison!" (ask the red dragon to blow his powerful flame, and as he does it I use thaumaturgy again to change the color of the fire to match Tiamats 5 heads). "it is my hopes that we can work together in this endeavor, perhaps take down a silver dragon or two in the process!"
You're literally asking a dragon to roast you alive. Maybe the best solution is to... not... do that. If you can't avoid a confrontation entirely, you could bribe, offer favors or services, appeal to its arrogance and pride. Possibly ask your patron for a boon or even to intercede on your behalf. Offer up the ranger as a sacrifice. Seduce it. There are an infinite number of ways to handle the situation without asking to be blasted with fire. Hell, even just give the speech without asking to be flame broiled and make a straight deception roll. Do you have any fire cantrips, like firebolt or something? I could easily see producing that and using Thaumaturgy to change the colors/brightness so long as you're not in combat.
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The Sleight of Hand check, in this case, would be to hide the VSM components of casting the spell. If the Dragon can see you casting, that kind of undermines trying to convince it that you have been granted fire immunity. Charisma would not help you hide your hand movements or incantations.
I just meant that by the rules, as an example, sure - you can dim the flames of a campfire. But if you step in the dimmed campfire, the DM is still going to make you take your 1d8 fire damage.
Red dragons are arrogant and covetous. You might be better off just bribing it with a shiny gift and a promise of a more valuable gift later. Or offering to do it a service by eliminating a problem for the dragon. (Though present it as a somewhat annoying problem the mighty dragon could no doubt handle in an instant if it wasn't so unworthy as to be beneath the mighty dragon's dignity to bother. And cower and act like potential slaves.)
Red dragons think they are the chosen of Tiamat to rule over everything and everyone else. Approach it as an equal and it's going to murder you all just to show that it can. Or to prove that you're not as tough as you claim to be.
thaumaturgy only requires a verbal component so I still think a CHA (sleight of hand) can be considered since 1) Affecting the arcane words may be effected by your spellcasting skill and method of casting.. There's no dexterous movements involved
2) You're [slightly] modifying the way the spell works, so again, your spellcasting skill may come into play
Personally, I wouldn't allow that. You're not changing the spell, you're trying to hide the fact that you're casting it. Maybe a performance check to do the Somatic without moving your lips. I assume you're referring to this from the PHB:
Variant: Skills with Different Abilities
Normally, your proficiency in a skill applies only to a specific kind of ability check. Proficiency in Athletics, for example, usually applies to Strength checks. In some situations, though, your proficiency might reasonably apply to a different kind of check. In such cases, the DM might ask for a check using an unusual combination of ability and skill, or you might ask your DM if you can apply a proficiency to a different check. For example, if you have to swim from an offshore island to the mainland, your DM might call for a Constitution check to see if you have the stamina to make it that far. In this case, your DM might allow you to apply your proficiency in Athletics and ask for a Constitution (Athletics) check. So if you're proficient in Athletics, you apply your proficiency bonus to the Constitution check just as you would normally do for a Strength (Athletics) check. Similarly, when your half-‐‑orc barbarian uses a display of raw strength to intimidate an enemy, your DM might ask for a Strength (Intimidation) check, even though Intimidation is normally associated with Charisma.
To me, Charisma doesn't "reasonably apply" to Sleight of Hand, especially since, as you said, you're not using your hands. But at your table, if you're cool with it, by all means let them give it a shot.
Guys... Thaumaturgy does not work this way. It only allows you to change the color and level of illumination of an existing flame. It does not stop flames from existing, expanding, or damaging.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I personally wouldn't require a Sleight of Hand check, because I don't want to have too many rolls as to not make the idea impossible to pull of, and also because I believe the caster would be hidden by the fiery inferno of the dragon's breath anyway.
That is a great point, I forgot to read the spell #oops. As mentioned though, control flames might be perfect for this.
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To survive, I would say buy or steal a wagon with a half dozen calves or pigs and offer them to the dragon as an initial offering. Or better yet, buy a calf, polymorph it into a young elf and pretend you are offering a major sacrifice. Then run/back away and don't return until everybody is level 10, etc.
I was contemplating being all like (using thaumaturgy to make voice 3X as loud) "great and mighty dragon of red! The most beautiful, merciful and powerful goddess of all, Tiamat, came to me in a dream. In exchange for granting me a very small amount of her power over fire and able to understand draconic, she made me spy on the humans on her behalf, and try to discover any knowledge they have to free her and her might from her prison!" (ask the red dragon to blow his powerful flame, and as he does it I use thaumaturgy again to change the color of the fire to match Tiamats 5 heads). "it is my hopes that we can work together in this endeavor, perhaps take down a silver dragon or two in the process!"
I also have the spell (i forgot what it is, but basically I create a flame that doesn't hurt me or my equipment) so I was planning on basically lighting my entire body with this and try to further show that the same God that we "both worship" and she has protected me.....maybe have the colors of said flame alternate between the 5 as well, idk
This is basically how I was looking to run this little bit here. I would appreciate any suggestions......because this is like the only other way I can think of us getting out of this alive...
Can someone else cast Absorb Elements on you beforehand? Alternatively, do you have a Nature Cleric in your party?
Oh well that's a straight up Deception check, maybe with Advantage if your DM thinks it's impressive enough. Yeah that's a legitimate use of Thaumaturgy in my opinion.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Sadly no, we got a archer ranger, dumb fighter of some kind, a cleric of....life (?) that thinks he can detect evil just because, and myself a warlock for my beautiful patron, Queen of Ravens with tome of ancient secrets or something.....
Absorb Elements is a level 1 spell that Rangers get access to.
No this archer is focusing on beast companion stuff and her bow attacks...
OP already has fire resistance, unless i'm missing something, there's nothing more that Absorb Elements could grant ?
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Also isnt Absorb Elements a self spell?
You're both right. I forgot that Resistances don't stack in 5e and that this spell is Self. And I guess you don't have a 10th level Druid in your party, either. Oh, right. Well, don't I feel dumb?
hey its cool man, i do appreciate the information you are providing. It allows me to try to look into alternative more viable options to somehow not KILL US ALL! So I really appreciate it!
Ummm, okay. Not a man, but I guess I'll accept the thanks.
Too bad you can't turn into Magma Mephit to absorb the fire damage completely.
That was established on page 1 of this thread.
You're literally asking a dragon to roast you alive. Maybe the best solution is to... not... do that. If you can't avoid a confrontation entirely, you could bribe, offer favors or services, appeal to its arrogance and pride. Possibly ask your patron for a boon or even to intercede on your behalf. Offer up the ranger as a sacrifice. Seduce it. There are an infinite number of ways to handle the situation without asking to be blasted with fire. Hell, even just give the speech without asking to be flame broiled and make a straight deception roll. Do you have any fire cantrips, like firebolt or something? I could easily see producing that and using Thaumaturgy to change the colors/brightness so long as you're not in combat.