Recently My players leveled up to level 6 where most of the players all leveled up to their classes 6th level. My fighter on the other hand has decided to take a level in Warlock. Mostly because of a mindflayer filled backstory he made and because of it an elderbrain would become his new patreon. He told me a long time ago that he wanted to take a level in hexblade warlock so I went on my way of figuring out how this would be an interesting thing to do.
The fighter likes to use a crossbow and has been doing so since the beginning of the campaign. I did not want to change his way of player especially because at level 4 he already decided to take the Crossbow Expert Feat. I found, in Volo's guide to Monsters, a magical set of items created by the mindflayers that can be given to specific minions. I thought that one of these "Mind" weapons would be a perfect fit for this character to find and which would be his pact weapon. So he found a version of a "Mind blade" but a crossbow variaty. But now I am afraid I might have stumbled upon a problem.
The mind weapon says that in the hands of its specififc wielder it becomes a magical weapon of its kind dealing an extra 2D6 pshycic damage to any target it hits. This causes the Fighter to be able to have 3 attacks all dealing 4D6 damage to a target with any attack. As strong as a first level guiding bolt from a cleric.
He can use this handcrossbow for his first, second and bonus action attack (thanks to the crossbow master feat). All the damages he can do is: 1D6 from the handcrossbow bolt 1D6 Necrotic damage if he casts hex with one of his few spellslots. This is a stratagy that will be applied often I assume. 2D6 pshycic damage because of the mind weapon. And than a +3 for his charisma modifier.
The only downsides to this weapon currently is the fact that it does require attunement taking up one of his attunement slots for his pact weapon.
I personally have no problem at all with my players having a rediculous amount of power and I dont like taking them down a peg after I already gave them this but i feel like in this case i might have made a mistake. Because currently he puts out more damage than most other party members combined which, i am afraid, might make them feel insignificant.
I am thinking of either putting a limit on how this weapon works or to its capabilities but im not sure what the best thing for me to do would be. Any Dm to DM advise?
If it is problematic, then have a talk with the player and go back to the official version of mind blade that requires the weapon to be a blade. Give him a sword to use it with and maybe just a more traditional magic item crossbow. The version he found doesn't seem to be in the books (at least not with any name like 'mind blade'). People homebrew things that are not really balanced all the time, and sometimes a DM might not realize it isn't really working in their game until they see it in play.
Or, add some restriction such as a number of uses per day. I would make it a quite small number, like once or twice a day or once per long rest.
As far as my opinion goes, I don't really think a person who is multiclassing into classes with such strong mechanical synergy (whether it is "on purpose" or not) also needs the additional synergy of a too powerful magic item.
This was indeed a homebrew weapon. It was just a mind blade but then used with a crossbow instead.
The thing is if this thing is ment to be a blade then it is still extremely powerful. A normal fighter or barbarian wielding a mind blade of a greatsword variaty would do 2D6 slashing + 2D6 pshycic damage. It seems to be very overpowered altough that is the way it is discribed in volos guide. I also just wonder how the creaters of the game intended for dms to use this in their games if its that strong.
It says "the mind blade is a magic weapon that deals an extra 2d6 psychic damage to any target it hits." So do i interperate it wrong if that means literally anything it hits with an attack?
It is extremely powerful. The intended design of the weapon is that is it almost never useful to a PC. You are supposed to fight an enemy who is using such a weapon, and then find it unable to be used.
Perhaps add a cost to the use of the psychic damage. He may choose to deliver 2d6 damage, but must suffer the same damage himself. Or make the psychic damage only apply on a critical hit.
At certain tiers of play, this might not be too bad, but as with all magic items, they're too powerful at your table if they are causing a problem at your table. I would also point out that having a 'patron' and being a 'thrall' are not necessarily identical, and that the downside of having it may be related to those differences.
You could have the psychic damage only apply to one attack per turn - like sneak attack.
I think that's the simplest way to handle it. For a level 6 party that's a way too powerful weapon. I'd say talk it over with the player, maybe make a story moment out of it... maybe they realize that using the weapon is weakening them to the influence of the Elder Brain, but by limiting their use it protects them.
Thank you for everyone who replied to this. I have, i think, come up with a way of making this weapon awesome in my campaign while not being overpowered. Keep in mind, this player is expecting to use this weapon all throughout the campaign while maybe upgrading it here and there by tinkering on it he won't be switching to any other weapon mostly.
I always give my players magic cards, similar to Critical Role, for them to keep with them so they can easily look up how the homebrew items work. This is the card i made for this specific weapon including a visual discription, normal weapon properties and magical properties:
Mind Crossbow
Light/Hand Crossbow, Rare (Requires attunement by a specific individual)
This crossbow made out of fine walnut wood. It has be carved and tinkered into a weapon of intricate design. The wooden pieces held together by small bolts and hinges give it the ability to be reformed into two weapon kinds. A dark ironhandle sits in the front where a foot can be placed for a reload. Two hinges across the horizontal bow together with two small handles on the side of the weapons main shaft make the transition for it to fold in on itself much ease. The handle can be extended or folded downward and the bowstring will spin up on two coils when it is formed into its handcrossbow version. In the front of the weapon under the release of the bolt, a humanoid eye is imbedded in it curiously looking around at everything that happends in front of it.
Attunement This weapon can only be attuned to by the person whom it was made for. In the hands of any other creature, the mind crossbow functions as a normal weapon of its kind but also deals 2D6 psychic damage for every turn the creature holds hit. Illithids, Illithid tadpoles, elder brains, ulitharids and Neothelids are immume to this effect.
Two weapons The Mind crossbow can be, thanks to its intricate design, be switched from a Light crossbow into a Handcrossbow. Doing so takes an action. This weapon in each version has the following properties: Handcrossbow: Damage: 1D6 Piercing, Ammunition (range 30/120), light, loading Light crossbow: Damage: 1D8 Piercing, Ammunition (range 80/320), loading, two-handed
Magical weapon In the hands of its intended wielder, the mind crossbow is a magic weapon.
Awakened state This magical weapon deals 1D4 extra psychic damage to any target it hits. As a bonus action on your turn you can awaken the eye. The pupil grows to incompass almost the entire eyeball. For the next minute the extra damage done by this magical weapon is 2D6 psychic damage instead of 1D4. Once this property is used it can’t be used again until the next dawn.
While awakened the Mind Crossbow is also more vaunerable. If you go unconcious while the weapon is awakened the eye shuts and retracts back into the weapon and the crossbow folds in on itself. The folded weapon becomes a non-magical item for 1D8 days after which it rebuilds itself.
Mind Blast
The Mind Crossbow Absorbs the intellect of any creature it kills. After a creature with an
intelligence score of 12 or higher is killed there is a chance this weapon charges a Mind blast. You roll a D6 on a 5 or 6 the weapon charges with a Mind Blast. The weapon can only have 1 charge availble at any given moment and a charge fades if it hasn’t been used before the next dawn.
Mind Blast (Recharge 5–6). The Mind Crossbow magically emits psychic energy in a 60-foot cone. Each creature in that area must succeed on a DC 15 Intelligence saving throw or take 22 (4d8 + 4) psychic damage and be stunned for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success.
I like it. Might still be a bit too powerful for a level 6 team, but this is definitely a weapon that will carry your player through the entire campaign. Very cool way to give someone with such a unique class background something that plays well with their story.
Recently My players leveled up to level 6 where most of the players all leveled up to their classes 6th level. My fighter on the other hand has decided to take a level in Warlock. Mostly because of a mindflayer filled backstory he made and because of it an elderbrain would become his new patreon. He told me a long time ago that he wanted to take a level in hexblade warlock so I went on my way of figuring out how this would be an interesting thing to do.
The fighter likes to use a crossbow and has been doing so since the beginning of the campaign. I did not want to change his way of player especially because at level 4 he already decided to take the Crossbow Expert Feat. I found, in Volo's guide to Monsters, a magical set of items created by the mindflayers that can be given to specific minions. I thought that one of these "Mind" weapons would be a perfect fit for this character to find and which would be his pact weapon. So he found a version of a "Mind blade" but a crossbow variaty. But now I am afraid I might have stumbled upon a problem.
The mind weapon says that in the hands of its specififc wielder it becomes a magical weapon of its kind dealing an extra 2D6 pshycic damage to any target it hits. This causes the Fighter to be able to have 3 attacks all dealing 4D6 damage to a target with any attack. As strong as a first level guiding bolt from a cleric.
He can use this handcrossbow for his first, second and bonus action attack (thanks to the crossbow master feat). All the damages he can do is: 1D6 from the handcrossbow bolt 1D6 Necrotic damage if he casts hex with one of his few spellslots. This is a stratagy that will be applied often I assume. 2D6 pshycic damage because of the mind weapon. And than a +3 for his charisma modifier.
The only downsides to this weapon currently is the fact that it does require attunement taking up one of his attunement slots for his pact weapon.
I personally have no problem at all with my players having a rediculous amount of power and I dont like taking them down a peg after I already gave them this but i feel like in this case i might have made a mistake. Because currently he puts out more damage than most other party members combined which, i am afraid, might make them feel insignificant.
I am thinking of either putting a limit on how this weapon works or to its capabilities but im not sure what the best thing for me to do would be. Any Dm to DM advise?
Thank you!
The classic DM problem, when the group all isn’t on the same page in terms of power gaming.
do you let the one have his fun, at the possible expense of the others. Do you not, so that the others don’t feel I signifcant? Do you find a co promise in between?
I have also read your magic card for the weapon. I think you came up with a relatively good thing.
and, with that, since it’s walnut wood, you gave yourself an out if it becomes a problem. It’s pretty flammable. If it becomes an issue, you as the dm, can self correct it, by someone uses something that will ignite his flammable crossbow. Then you just give him/he finds a replacement, that’s good, but less broken/problematic.
If it is problematic, then have a talk with the player and go back to the official version of mind blade that requires the weapon to be a blade. Give him a sword to use it with and maybe just a more traditional magic item crossbow. The version he found doesn't seem to be in the books (at least not with any name like 'mind blade'). People homebrew things that are not really balanced all the time, and sometimes a DM might not realize it isn't really working in their game until they see it in play.
Or, add some restriction such as a number of uses per day. I would make it a quite small number, like once or twice a day or once per long rest.
As far as my opinion goes, I don't really think a person who is multiclassing into classes with such strong mechanical synergy (whether it is "on purpose" or not) also needs the additional synergy of a too powerful magic item.
I’m off topic here. But Wolf I got to agree with you.
the off topic part- I cannot recall the last multiclassing player I saw who didn’t do it for mechanical synergy, but did it as some other element.
I'm honestly not even sure why someone made a thread pointing out that the mind blade was not an available item. It can only be used by NPCs (unless your campaign is playing a homebrew game with mind flayer and thrall characters).
I'm honestly not even sure why someone made a thread pointing out that the mind blade was not an available item. It can only be used by NPCs (unless your campaign is playing a homebrew game with mind flayer and thrall characters).
you've been on the forums long enough to know that over 50% of the games posted about are some homebrew variant.
I discribed it as a wooden crossbow because that made most sense to me. I get the idea of being able to destroy the weapon if I as a DM feel the need of that happening. Altough because its a magical item it wouldnt be destroyed so easily. But if it reverts while it was in its awakened state it becomes non magical so that could then indeed be an option. Good thinking, thanks!
Well, I understand. This item wouldnt normally (By the books) be made for any other creature than a mindflayer (and related hive members).
Because it isnt made for player to be able to use it might turn out a little too strong if you hand it to them as an item. Which was the case here.
So yes, you are right you should be able to just give this to a player if you deem that appropriate but because it wasnt ment for player characters to be used it might have a diffirent effect on your game.
The original mind blade isn't "overpowered", it dishes out comparable damage to a flametongue with the only difference being one deals extra fire damage and the other psychic. While not as many monsters and creatures are immune or resistant to psychic damage, its not that big of deal in the grand scheme. My suggestion would be to have kept it as a melee weapon and every so often introduce monsters that are resistant or immune. If your player has mindflayers in his background and he tries to incorporate that through levels in Warlock then the DM in me says that they provided the perfect excuse to hound the party with mindflayers and their thralls.
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Recently My players leveled up to level 6 where most of the players all leveled up to their classes 6th level.
My fighter on the other hand has decided to take a level in Warlock. Mostly because of a mindflayer filled backstory he made and because of it an elderbrain would become his new patreon. He told me a long time ago that he wanted to take a level in hexblade warlock so I went on my way of figuring out how this would be an interesting thing to do.
The fighter likes to use a crossbow and has been doing so since the beginning of the campaign. I did not want to change his way of player especially because at level 4 he already decided to take the Crossbow Expert Feat.
I found, in Volo's guide to Monsters, a magical set of items created by the mindflayers that can be given to specific minions. I thought that one of these "Mind" weapons would be a perfect fit for this character to find and which would be his pact weapon. So he found a version of a "Mind blade" but a crossbow variaty. But now I am afraid I might have stumbled upon a problem.
The mind weapon says that in the hands of its specififc wielder it becomes a magical weapon of its kind dealing an extra 2D6 pshycic damage to any target it hits.
This causes the Fighter to be able to have 3 attacks all dealing 4D6 damage to a target with any attack. As strong as a first level guiding bolt from a cleric.
He can use this handcrossbow for his first, second and bonus action attack (thanks to the crossbow master feat).
All the damages he can do is:
1D6 from the handcrossbow bolt
1D6 Necrotic damage if he casts hex with one of his few spellslots. This is a stratagy that will be applied often I assume.
2D6 pshycic damage because of the mind weapon.
And than a +3 for his charisma modifier.
The only downsides to this weapon currently is the fact that it does require attunement taking up one of his attunement slots for his pact weapon.
I personally have no problem at all with my players having a rediculous amount of power and I dont like taking them down a peg after I already gave them this but i feel like in this case i might have made a mistake. Because currently he puts out more damage than most other party members combined which, i am afraid, might make them feel insignificant.
I am thinking of either putting a limit on how this weapon works or to its capabilities but im not sure what the best thing for me to do would be.
Any Dm to DM advise?
Thank you!
If it is problematic, then have a talk with the player and go back to the official version of mind blade that requires the weapon to be a blade. Give him a sword to use it with and maybe just a more traditional magic item crossbow. The version he found doesn't seem to be in the books (at least not with any name like 'mind blade'). People homebrew things that are not really balanced all the time, and sometimes a DM might not realize it isn't really working in their game until they see it in play.
Or, add some restriction such as a number of uses per day. I would make it a quite small number, like once or twice a day or once per long rest.
As far as my opinion goes, I don't really think a person who is multiclassing into classes with such strong mechanical synergy (whether it is "on purpose" or not) also needs the additional synergy of a too powerful magic item.
This was indeed a homebrew weapon. It was just a mind blade but then used with a crossbow instead.
The thing is if this thing is ment to be a blade then it is still extremely powerful. A normal fighter or barbarian wielding a mind blade of a greatsword variaty would do 2D6 slashing + 2D6 pshycic damage. It seems to be very overpowered altough that is the way it is discribed in volos guide.
I also just wonder how the creaters of the game intended for dms to use this in their games if its that strong.
It says "the mind blade is a magic weapon that deals an extra 2d6 psychic damage to any target it hits." So do i interperate it wrong if that means literally anything it hits with an attack?
It is extremely powerful. The intended design of the weapon is that is it almost never useful to a PC. You are supposed to fight an enemy who is using such a weapon, and then find it unable to be used.
Perhaps add a cost to the use of the psychic damage. He may choose to deliver 2d6 damage, but must suffer the same damage himself. Or make the psychic damage only apply on a critical hit.
At certain tiers of play, this might not be too bad, but as with all magic items, they're too powerful at your table if they are causing a problem at your table. I would also point out that having a 'patron' and being a 'thrall' are not necessarily identical, and that the downside of having it may be related to those differences.
You could have the psychic damage only apply to one attack per turn - like sneak attack.
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I think that's the simplest way to handle it. For a level 6 party that's a way too powerful weapon. I'd say talk it over with the player, maybe make a story moment out of it... maybe they realize that using the weapon is weakening them to the influence of the Elder Brain, but by limiting their use it protects them.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Thank you for everyone who replied to this. I have, i think, come up with a way of making this weapon awesome in my campaign while not being overpowered. Keep in mind, this player is expecting to use this weapon all throughout the campaign while maybe upgrading it here and there by tinkering on it he won't be switching to any other weapon mostly.
I always give my players magic cards, similar to Critical Role, for them to keep with them so they can easily look up how the homebrew items work. This is the card i made for this specific weapon including a visual discription, normal weapon properties and magical properties:
Mind Crossbow
Light/Hand Crossbow, Rare (Requires attunement by a specific individual)
This crossbow made out of fine walnut wood. It has be carved and tinkered into a weapon of intricate design. The wooden pieces held together by small bolts and hinges give it the ability to be reformed into two weapon kinds. A dark iron handle sits in the front where a foot can be placed for a reload. Two hinges across the horizontal bow together with two small handles on the side of the weapons main shaft make the transition for it to fold in on itself much ease. The handle can be extended or folded downward and the bowstring will spin up on two coils when it is formed into its handcrossbow version. In the front of the weapon under the release of the bolt, a humanoid eye is imbedded in it curiously looking around at everything that happends in front of it.
Attunement
This weapon can only be attuned to by the person whom it was made for.
In the hands of any other creature, the mind crossbow functions as a normal weapon of its kind but also deals 2D6 psychic damage for every turn the creature holds hit.
Illithids, Illithid tadpoles, elder brains, ulitharids and Neothelids are immume to this effect.
Two weapons
The Mind crossbow can be, thanks to its intricate design, be switched from a Light crossbow into a Handcrossbow. Doing so takes an action.
This weapon in each version has the following properties:
Handcrossbow: Damage: 1D6 Piercing, Ammunition (range 30/120), light, loading
Light crossbow: Damage: 1D8 Piercing, Ammunition (range 80/320), loading, two-handed
Magical weapon
In the hands of its intended wielder, the mind crossbow is a magic weapon.
Awakened state
This magical weapon deals 1D4 extra psychic damage to any target it hits.
As a bonus action on your turn you can awaken the eye. The pupil grows to incompass almost the entire eyeball. For the next minute the extra damage done by this magical weapon is 2D6 psychic damage instead of 1D4. Once this property is used it can’t be used again until the next dawn.
While awakened the Mind Crossbow is also more vaunerable. If you go unconcious while the
weapon is awakened the eye shuts and retracts back into the weapon and the crossbow folds in on itself.
The folded weapon becomes a non-magical item for 1D8 days after which it rebuilds itself.
Mind Blast
The Mind Crossbow Absorbs the intellect of any creature it kills. After a creature with an
intelligence score of 12 or higher is killed there is a chance this weapon charges a Mind blast. You roll a D6 on a 5 or 6 the weapon charges with a Mind Blast. The weapon can only have 1 charge availble at any given moment and a charge fades if it hasn’t been used before the next dawn.
Mind Blast (Recharge 5–6). The Mind Crossbow magically emits psychic energy in a 60-foot cone. Each creature in that area must succeed on a DC 15 Intelligence saving throw or take 22 (4d8 + 4) psychic damage and be stunned for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success.
I like it. Might still be a bit too powerful for a level 6 team, but this is definitely a weapon that will carry your player through the entire campaign. Very cool way to give someone with such a unique class background something that plays well with their story.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
The classic DM problem, when the group all isn’t on the same page in terms of power gaming.
do you let the one have his fun, at the possible expense of the others. Do you not, so that the others don’t feel I signifcant? Do you find a co promise in between?
I have also read your magic card for the weapon. I think you came up with a relatively good thing.
and, with that, since it’s walnut wood, you gave yourself an out if it becomes a problem. It’s pretty flammable. If it becomes an issue, you as the dm, can self correct it, by someone uses something that will ignite his flammable crossbow. Then you just give him/he finds a replacement, that’s good, but less broken/problematic.
Blank
I’m off topic here. But Wolf I got to agree with you.
the off topic part- I cannot recall the last multiclassing player I saw who didn’t do it for mechanical synergy, but did it as some other element.
Blank
I'm honestly not even sure why someone made a thread pointing out that the mind blade was not an available item. It can only be used by NPCs (unless your campaign is playing a homebrew game with mind flayer and thrall characters).
you've been on the forums long enough to know that over 50% of the games posted about are some homebrew variant.
Blank
I discribed it as a wooden crossbow because that made most sense to me. I get the idea of being able to destroy the weapon if I as a DM feel the need of that happening. Altough because its a magical item it wouldnt be destroyed so easily. But if it reverts while it was in its awakened state it becomes non magical so that could then indeed be an option. Good thinking, thanks!
Well, I understand. This item wouldnt normally (By the books) be made for any other creature than a mindflayer (and related hive members).
Because it isnt made for player to be able to use it might turn out a little too strong if you hand it to them as an item. Which was the case here.
So yes, you are right you should be able to just give this to a player if you deem that appropriate but because it wasnt ment for player characters to be used it might have a diffirent effect on your game.
The original mind blade isn't "overpowered", it dishes out comparable damage to a flametongue with the only difference being one deals extra fire damage and the other psychic. While not as many monsters and creatures are immune or resistant to psychic damage, its not that big of deal in the grand scheme. My suggestion would be to have kept it as a melee weapon and every so often introduce monsters that are resistant or immune. If your player has mindflayers in his background and he tries to incorporate that through levels in Warlock then the DM in me says that they provided the perfect excuse to hound the party with mindflayers and their thralls.