I say 'abuse' to keep the general consensus of this thread. Sending more easier encounters per day fixes any perceived problems with the spell. So it can hardly be 'abused'. At least that's my opinion.
Dude, if you can't see how a Ranger being capable of being a better healer than full casters devoted to healing is a huge !%#@ing problem, I don't know what to say other than "stay in your lane". 🤦♂️🤷♂️
I just don't see this one spell making any class "better" than another whole class with abilities and multiple spell options. As I've stated before above, the spell is totally NOT optimized for combat, and the majority of the time any other healing spell is what you want in a fight.
It allows rangers to heal over time, and just a little bit, over a LOT of time. That's not going to do you a lick of good in a fight, seven times out of 10.
Bear in mind that most fights last an average of 3 to 4 turns. Rolling an average of 4 points per turn, and by some miracle everyone has had access to the area of the spell EVERY TURN, you'll only heal an average of 16HP per character.
Excuse me if I don't write clerics out of the game over 16hp.
I feel like you skipped the entire thread.
With a small amount of finessing the party can heal 20d6 PER PERSON in a single minute. Explain to me how 70+ points PER PERSON doesn't make Prayer of Healing (10 mins) total garbage or how it doesn't make Aura of Vitality - a very powerful 3rd level healing spell - complete trash.
Nobody is complaining about the in-combat healing of the spell. It works just fine there.
Out of combat is where you can generate numbers that out heal casting HEAL on the whole party (6x 6th level slots vs. a slightly upcast 3rd level Healing Spirit).
And this isn't just theory craft. I DM'd for an Adventure League Epic where a single T2 ranger was able to out heal both of the life clerics in the party after a particularly harrowing battle. The faces of the life clerics told me everything I needed to see.
Even Jeremy Crawford said the goal of the spell was roughly 2x WIS mod in dice of healing. I feel comfortable stating that 120d6 post-combat healing is MUCH, MUCH higher than the 8d6 to 10d6 he was envisioning when creating the spell.
Dude, if you can't see how a Ranger being capable of being a better healer than full casters devoted to healing is a huge !%#@ing problem, I don't know what to say other than "stay in your lane". 🤦♂️🤷♂️
I just don't see this one spell making any class "better" than another whole class with abilities and multiple spell options. As I've stated before above, the spell is totally NOT optimized for combat, and the majority of the time any other healing spell is what you want in a fight.
It allows rangers to heal over time, and just a little bit, over a LOT of time. That's not going to do you a lick of good in a fight, seven times out of 10.
Bear in mind that most fights last an average of 3 to 4 turns. Rolling an average of 4 points per turn, and by some miracle everyone has had access to the area of the spell EVERY TURN, you'll only heal an average of 16HP per character.
Excuse me if I don't write clerics out of the game over 16hp.
I feel like you skipped the entire thread.
With a small amount of finessing the party can heal 20d6 PER PERSON in a single minute. Explain to me how 70+ points PER PERSON doesn't make Prayer of Healing (10 mins) total garbage or how it doesn't make Aura of Vitality - a very powerful 3rd level healing spell - complete trash.
Nobody is complaining about the in-combat healing of the spell. It works just fine there.
Out of combat is where you can generate numbers that out heal casting HEAL on the whole party (6x 6th level slots vs. a slightly upcast 3rd level Healing Spirit).
And this isn't just theory craft. I DM'd for an Adventure League Epic where a single T2 ranger was able to out heal both of the life clerics in the party after a particularly harrowing battle. The faces of the life clerics told me everything I needed to see.
Even Jeremy Crawford said the goal of the spell was roughly 2x WIS mod in dice of healing. I feel comfortable stating that 120d6 post-combat healing is MUCH, MUCH higher than the 8d6 to 10d6 he was envisioning when creating the spell.
If you are talking about upcasting, you should mention that when you discuss effects. Each person can be healed once per turn, so at max 10 times - 10d6. That is still more than other 2nd level spells, close to the disparity between fireball and other 3rd level damage spells.
And in the same discussion, Jeremy Crawford stated that OOC healing can’t be accounted for anyway so should be assumed.
If a healing spirit replaces the healing from a short rest, isn’t that perfectly thematic for a ranger that is all about survival? A life cleric can stick to... not trying to replace short rests. Maybe your two life clerics were upset because they couldn’t be the star of healing, but what happens when it is just the two life clerics competing with each other? One of them still loses out.
Dude, if you can't see how a Ranger being capable of being a better healer than full casters devoted to healing is a huge !%#@ing problem, I don't know what to say other than "stay in your lane". 🤦♂️🤷♂️
I just don't see this one spell making any class "better" than another whole class with abilities and multiple spell options. As I've stated before above, the spell is totally NOT optimized for combat, and the majority of the time any other healing spell is what you want in a fight.
It allows rangers to heal over time, and just a little bit, over a LOT of time. That's not going to do you a lick of good in a fight, seven times out of 10.
Bear in mind that most fights last an average of 3 to 4 turns. Rolling an average of 4 points per turn, and by some miracle everyone has had access to the area of the spell EVERY TURN, you'll only heal an average of 16HP per character.
Excuse me if I don't write clerics out of the game over 16hp.
I feel like you skipped the entire thread.
With a small amount of finessing the party can heal 20d6 PER PERSON in a single minute. Explain to me how 70+ points PER PERSON doesn't make Prayer of Healing (10 mins) total garbage or how it doesn't make Aura of Vitality - a very powerful 3rd level healing spell - complete trash.
Nobody is complaining about the in-combat healing of the spell. It works just fine there.
Out of combat is where you can generate numbers that out heal casting HEAL on the whole party (6x 6th level slots vs. a slightly upcast 3rd level Healing Spirit).
And this isn't just theory craft. I DM'd for an Adventure League Epic where a single T2 ranger was able to out heal both of the life clerics in the party after a particularly harrowing battle. The faces of the life clerics told me everything I needed to see.
Even Jeremy Crawford said the goal of the spell was roughly 2x WIS mod in dice of healing. I feel comfortable stating that 120d6 post-combat healing is MUCH, MUCH higher than the 8d6 to 10d6 he was envisioning when creating the spell.
I already commented on the last page about why I don't think the ability to heal a short rest's worth OOC occasionally breaks the game. Please see my earlier remarks.
Let's give Clerics a spell that summons an animal companion which is superior to the Beastmaster subclass. It doesn't matter which subclass of Cleric you are; take the spell, and be a better Beastmaster than the devoted Ranger subclass without impacting anything about your Cleric capabilities.
Then we can have this entire argument all over again, and see how you ******* like it.
[edit] Swearing is in no way against the official rules & guidelines of this forum. I'll gladly die on this shitty ******* hill if need be.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Let's give Clerics a spell that summons an animal companion which is superior to the Beastmaster subclass. It doesn't matter which subclass of Cleric you are; take the spell, and be a better Beastmaster than the devoted Ranger subclass without impacting anything about your Cleric capabilities.
Then we can have this entire argument all over again, and see how you like it.
Clerics are still better healers. They have in combat healing and more support/battlefield control spells. Druids don't. They have cure wounds and one or two subclass abilities for in combat healing, and healing spirit for decent out of combat healing.
Both things are useful at different times, just as both classes are better at different things. I still reject the premise of your argument that having healing spirit makes any one class "better" at healing than another, and the hypothetical situation you're using here does not argue your point, it just states it differently. Please tell why the ability to occasionally skip short rests makes druids and rangers superior healers.
Let's give Clerics a spell that summons an animal companion which is superior to the Beastmaster subclass. It doesn't matter which subclass of Cleric you are; take the spell, and be a better Beastmaster than the devoted Ranger subclass without impacting anything about your Cleric capabilities.
Then we can have this entire argument all over again, and see how you like it.
They do, but it requires a level 5 spell slot per day (though that can be avoided with level 6+ spell slots consumed during downtime). But in every other way, Planar Binding ends up with a superior companion.
Lets be honest. The Beastmaster subclass is just crap. Any spellcaster with a summon spell has some way to make a superior companion to the Beastmaster's pet. There's no discussion to be had
Let's give Clerics a spell that summons an animal companion which is superior to the Beastmaster subclass. It doesn't matter which subclass of Cleric you are; take the spell, and be a better Beastmaster than the devoted Ranger subclass without impacting anything about your Cleric capabilities.
Then we can have this entire argument all over again, and see how you like it.
Animate Dead - Up to 4 throwaway pets that you don't have to worry about keeping alive. All controlled with a Bonus Action.
Spiritual Weapon - 1 floating weapon that can move in any direction, including up against flying creatures and controlled with a Bonus Action. Can't be killed.
Planar Binding 5th level spell; totally off-point from the analogy.
Animate Dead is shit. It is in absolutely no individual way superior to a Beast Master's companion. Nice try.
Spiritual Weapon is a great spell, but are you joking? It does none of what a companion does.
How about a Cleric-exclusive variant of Fireball? Sure, maybe the damage on it is only 8d4 instead of 8d6, but you get to drop one every single turn--using no action--for one minute of concentration. How would Wizards feel about that, hmm? Starting to get the picture yet?
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Dude, if you can't see how a Ranger being capable of being a better healer than full casters devoted to healing is a huge !%#@ing problem, I don't know what to say other than "stay in your lane". 🤦♂️🤷♂️
I just don't see this one spell making any class "better" than another whole class with abilities and multiple spell options. As I've stated before above, the spell is totally NOT optimized for combat, and the majority of the time any other healing spell is what you want in a fight.
It allows rangers to heal over time, and just a little bit, over a LOT of time. That's not going to do you a lick of good in a fight, seven times out of 10.
Bear in mind that most fights last an average of 3 to 4 turns. Rolling an average of 4 points per turn, and by some miracle everyone has had access to the area of the spell EVERY TURN, you'll only heal an average of 16HP per character.
Excuse me if I don't write clerics out of the game over 16hp.
I feel like you skipped the entire thread.
With a small amount of finessing the party can heal 20d6 PER PERSON in a single minute. Explain to me how 70+ points PER PERSON doesn't make Prayer of Healing (10 mins) total garbage or how it doesn't make Aura of Vitality - a very powerful 3rd level healing spell - complete trash.
Nobody is complaining about the in-combat healing of the spell. It works just fine there.
Out of combat is where you can generate numbers that out heal casting HEAL on the whole party (6x 6th level slots vs. a slightly upcast 3rd level Healing Spirit).
And this isn't just theory craft. I DM'd for an Adventure League Epic where a single T2 ranger was able to out heal both of the life clerics in the party after a particularly harrowing battle. The faces of the life clerics told me everything I needed to see.
Even Jeremy Crawford said the goal of the spell was roughly 2x WIS mod in dice of healing. I feel comfortable stating that 120d6 post-combat healing is MUCH, MUCH higher than the 8d6 to 10d6 he was envisioning when creating the spell.
If you are talking about upcasting, you should mention that when you discuss effects. Each person can be healed once per turn, so at max 10 times - 10d6. That is still more than other 2nd level spells, close to the disparity between fireball and other 3rd level damage spells.
And in the same discussion, Jeremy Crawford stated that OOC healing can’t be accounted for anyway so should be assumed.
If a healing spirit replaces the healing from a short rest, isn’t that perfectly thematic for a ranger that is all about survival? A life cleric can stick to... not trying to replace short rests. Maybe your two life clerics were upset because they couldn’t be the star of healing, but what happens when it is just the two life clerics competing with each other? One of them still loses out.
It's 20d6 if you understand how turns work. On your turn you move through the Healing Spirit (get healed for 1d6) and then take the Ready action and hold your movement until the next person's turn starts. Then you use your reaction to move through the Healing Spirit on their turn - not yours - and scoop up another 1d6 healing.
At a minimum it's 20d6. There are ways to get more using turn mechanics & timing.
Using a 3rd level spell slot which puts you on par with Aura of Vitality - Now you're looking at 40d6 for every member of the party. 140 x 6 = 840 points of healing with a 3rd level spell slot. It's more healing than Mass Heal at 9th level.
Even with D&D's poor spell balancing that is insanely broken. Aura of Vitality - 70 points. Healing Spirit - 840 points when they both use a 3rd level slot.
And Fireball isn't even that broken. It is balanced by usability in the same fashion as a grenade. Sometimes you don't want to blow all your allies to hell. Sometimes you need to not set the ship you're sailing in on fire. Fire is one of the most resisted/immune damage types. And on and on.
Healing Spirit is broken to the point of stupidity out of combat.
Planar Binding 5th level spell; totally off-point from the analogy.
Animate Dead is shit. It is in absolutely no individual way superior to a Beast Master's companion. Nice try.
Spiritual Weapon is a great spell, but are you joking? It does none of what a companion does.
How about a Cleric-exclusive variant of Fireball? Sure, maybe the damage on it is only 8d4 instead of 8d6, but you get to drop one every single turn for one minute of concentration. How would Wizards feel about that, hmm? Starting to get the picture yet?
There are already spells like that. Call lightning and storm sphere are two spells that do similar damage on concentration every turn. They don't have the same aoe as fireball I'll admit, but it is multi-target damage on concentration. Not to mention, the spell exactly as you describe it sounds incredibly unwieldy, doing a fireball-like aoe every turn, you'd kill your party members as often as your enemies, considering the care in placement you need to give your average fireball without wiping your friends out. Like Healing Spirit, that spell sounds brokenly powerful on paper, but presents some serious limitations in practice.
I think the point you're actually making here is that in D&D there's always more than one way to do things, and the difference between them is largely situational.
Neither of which are available to Rangers at all. Both require a full action or bonus action to reproduce the effect on subsequent turns. Healing Spirit requires noaction to continue the effect on subsequent turns. Keep trying.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Neither of which are available to Rangers at all. Both require a full action or bonus action to reproduce the effect on subsequent turns. Healing Spirit requires noaction to continue the effect on subsequent turns. Keep trying.
The spells I cited require bonus actions on classes that don't have a ton of demands on their bonus action, so it may as well be action less. As for the Ranger, we were speaking hypothetically about clerics, so for that example, rangers aren't pertinent.
Two years later of people enjoying 40d6 healing per person in the party with a 3rd level spell slot and crickets.
I remember voicing my concerns to him in person about Contagion at an AL Epic in Dallas and it only took like 2 years for them to errata it.
Even his own advice on how to fix it was to change it to max out at 2x WIS mod in dice of healing.
Given that it's rangers we're looking at 4d6 to 8d6 healing and not the 240d6 healing you can get for a full party using Ready action to double-up on healing power. The wording of the spell needs to be adjusted.
Planar Binding 5th level spell; totally off-point from the analogy.
Animate Dead is shit. It is in absolutely no individual way superior to a Beast Master's companion. Nice try.
Spiritual Weapon is a great spell, but are you joking? It does none of what a companion does.
I was going to list all the ways that animate dead is equivalent or better than a companion at lower levels, and how the companion becomes pointless at higher levels when a companion would start to surpass animated dead in battles, but if you are so quick to dismiss, chances are you too entrenched in your point of view to listen.
Spiritual Weapon is better than a companion in about every way, in a battle. It does nothing out of combat, obviously, but a player has to go out of her way to find ways to make a companion useful out of combat. And let me just get ahead of your argument and say a familiar does every useful thing a companion can do out of combat, and that's a level 1 spell.
Again, I don't see the problem with out of combat healing. If it provided the same benefits as a short rest, i.e. ki points back, warlock spells back, whatever other short rest abilities back, then I'd have concerns. And as for the amount of healing, it could heal 1 million points of healing outside of combat, but that's not gonna take you over max health, so treating that super high ooc healing as devastatingly broken doesn't really stack when it comes with a built-in ceiling.
I think the main concern over this spell over-estimates the value of HP vs other spendable resources that this spell does not recover. I'd rather go into a big boss fight with all my warlock slots but half health than go in at full with only cantrips. I continue to fail to see how occasionally skipping a short rest breaks the game, and so far nobody has addressed THIS point at all.
It's 20d6 if you understand how turns work. On your turn you move through the Healing Spirit (get healed for 1d6) and then take the Ready action and hold your movement until the next person's turn starts. Then you use your reaction to move through the Healing Spirit on their turn - not yours - and scoop up another 1d6 healing.
NO. Per the spell:
Until the spell ends, whenever you or a creature you can see moves into the spirit’s space for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, you can cause the spirit to restore 1d6 hit points to that creature (no action required). The spirit can’t heal constructs or undead.
By RAW, you can only benefit from the spirit once per turn.
Moving through then holding action Dash to move through again should not be allowed.
I say 'abuse' to keep the general consensus of this thread. Sending more easier encounters per day fixes any perceived problems with the spell. So it can hardly be 'abused'. At least that's my opinion.
I feel like you skipped the entire thread.
With a small amount of finessing the party can heal 20d6 PER PERSON in a single minute. Explain to me how 70+ points PER PERSON doesn't make Prayer of Healing (10 mins) total garbage or how it doesn't make Aura of Vitality - a very powerful 3rd level healing spell - complete trash.
Nobody is complaining about the in-combat healing of the spell. It works just fine there.
Out of combat is where you can generate numbers that out heal casting HEAL on the whole party (6x 6th level slots vs. a slightly upcast 3rd level Healing Spirit).
And this isn't just theory craft. I DM'd for an Adventure League Epic where a single T2 ranger was able to out heal both of the life clerics in the party after a particularly harrowing battle. The faces of the life clerics told me everything I needed to see.
Even Jeremy Crawford said the goal of the spell was roughly 2x WIS mod in dice of healing. I feel comfortable stating that 120d6 post-combat healing is MUCH, MUCH higher than the 8d6 to 10d6 he was envisioning when creating the spell.
If you are talking about upcasting, you should mention that when you discuss effects. Each person can be healed once per turn, so at max 10 times - 10d6. That is still more than other 2nd level spells, close to the disparity between fireball and other 3rd level damage spells.
And in the same discussion, Jeremy Crawford stated that OOC healing can’t be accounted for anyway so should be assumed.
If a healing spirit replaces the healing from a short rest, isn’t that perfectly thematic for a ranger that is all about survival? A life cleric can stick to... not trying to replace short rests.
Maybe your two life clerics were upset because they couldn’t be the star of healing, but what happens when it is just the two life clerics competing with each other? One of them still loses out.
I already commented on the last page about why I don't think the ability to heal a short rest's worth OOC occasionally breaks the game. Please see my earlier remarks.
Let's give Clerics a spell that summons an animal companion which is superior to the Beastmaster subclass. It doesn't matter which subclass of Cleric you are; take the spell, and be a better Beastmaster than the devoted Ranger subclass without impacting anything about your Cleric capabilities.
Then we can have this entire argument all over again, and see how you ******* like it.
[edit] Swearing is in no way against the official rules & guidelines of this forum. I'll gladly die on this shitty ******* hill if need be.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Please, dear members of the community, keep the dialogue to a respectful level.
Thank you for your contribution and understanding.
Clerics are still better healers. They have in combat healing and more support/battlefield control spells. Druids don't. They have cure wounds and one or two subclass abilities for in combat healing, and healing spirit for decent out of combat healing.
Both things are useful at different times, just as both classes are better at different things. I still reject the premise of your argument that having healing spirit makes any one class "better" at healing than another, and the hypothetical situation you're using here does not argue your point, it just states it differently. Please tell why the ability to occasionally skip short rests makes druids and rangers superior healers.
They do, but it requires a level 5 spell slot per day (though that can be avoided with level 6+ spell slots consumed during downtime). But in every other way, Planar Binding ends up with a superior companion.
Lets be honest. The Beastmaster subclass is just crap. Any spellcaster with a summon spell has some way to make a superior companion to the Beastmaster's pet. There's no discussion to be had
Planar Binding 5th level spell; totally off-point from the analogy.
Animate Dead is shit. It is in absolutely no individual way superior to a Beast Master's companion. Nice try.
Spiritual Weapon is a great spell, but are you joking? It does none of what a companion does.
How about a Cleric-exclusive variant of Fireball? Sure, maybe the damage on it is only 8d4 instead of 8d6, but you get to drop one every single turn--using no action--for one minute of concentration. How would Wizards feel about that, hmm? Starting to get the picture yet?
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
It's 20d6 if you understand how turns work. On your turn you move through the Healing Spirit (get healed for 1d6) and then take the Ready action and hold your movement until the next person's turn starts. Then you use your reaction to move through the Healing Spirit on their turn - not yours - and scoop up another 1d6 healing.
At a minimum it's 20d6. There are ways to get more using turn mechanics & timing.
Using a 3rd level spell slot which puts you on par with Aura of Vitality - Now you're looking at 40d6 for every member of the party. 140 x 6 = 840 points of healing with a 3rd level spell slot. It's more healing than Mass Heal at 9th level.
Even with D&D's poor spell balancing that is insanely broken. Aura of Vitality - 70 points. Healing Spirit - 840 points when they both use a 3rd level slot.
And Fireball isn't even that broken. It is balanced by usability in the same fashion as a grenade. Sometimes you don't want to blow all your allies to hell. Sometimes you need to not set the ship you're sailing in on fire. Fire is one of the most resisted/immune damage types. And on and on.
Healing Spirit is broken to the point of stupidity out of combat.
There are already spells like that. Call lightning and storm sphere are two spells that do similar damage on concentration every turn. They don't have the same aoe as fireball I'll admit, but it is multi-target damage on concentration. Not to mention, the spell exactly as you describe it sounds incredibly unwieldy, doing a fireball-like aoe every turn, you'd kill your party members as often as your enemies, considering the care in placement you need to give your average fireball without wiping your friends out. Like Healing Spirit, that spell sounds brokenly powerful on paper, but presents some serious limitations in practice.
I think the point you're actually making here is that in D&D there's always more than one way to do things, and the difference between them is largely situational.
Neither of which are available to Rangers at all. Both require a full action or bonus action to reproduce the effect on subsequent turns. Healing Spirit requires no action to continue the effect on subsequent turns. Keep trying.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/930607373588209664?lang=en
An erratum is at least a possibility.
The spells I cited require bonus actions on classes that don't have a ton of demands on their bonus action, so it may as well be action less. As for the Ranger, we were speaking hypothetically about clerics, so for that example, rangers aren't pertinent.
Two years later of people enjoying 40d6 healing per person in the party with a 3rd level spell slot and crickets.
I remember voicing my concerns to him in person about Contagion at an AL Epic in Dallas and it only took like 2 years for them to errata it.
Even his own advice on how to fix it was to change it to max out at 2x WIS mod in dice of healing.
Given that it's rangers we're looking at 4d6 to 8d6 healing and not the 240d6 healing you can get for a full party using Ready action to double-up on healing power. The wording of the spell needs to be adjusted.
I was going to list all the ways that animate dead is equivalent or better than a companion at lower levels, and how the companion becomes pointless at higher levels when a companion would start to surpass animated dead in battles, but if you are so quick to dismiss, chances are you too entrenched in your point of view to listen.
Spiritual Weapon is better than a companion in about every way, in a battle. It does nothing out of combat, obviously, but a player has to go out of her way to find ways to make a companion useful out of combat. And let me just get ahead of your argument and say a familiar does every useful thing a companion can do out of combat, and that's a level 1 spell.
Again, I don't see the problem with out of combat healing. If it provided the same benefits as a short rest, i.e. ki points back, warlock spells back, whatever other short rest abilities back, then I'd have concerns. And as for the amount of healing, it could heal 1 million points of healing outside of combat, but that's not gonna take you over max health, so treating that super high ooc healing as devastatingly broken doesn't really stack when it comes with a built-in ceiling.
I think the main concern over this spell over-estimates the value of HP vs other spendable resources that this spell does not recover. I'd rather go into a big boss fight with all my warlock slots but half health than go in at full with only cantrips. I continue to fail to see how occasionally skipping a short rest breaks the game, and so far nobody has addressed THIS point at all.
NO. Per the spell:
Until the spell ends, whenever you or a creature you can see moves into the spirit’s space for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, you can cause the spirit to restore 1d6 hit points to that creature (no action required). The spirit can’t heal constructs or undead.
By RAW, you can only benefit from the spirit once per turn.
Moving through then holding action Dash to move through again should not be allowed.
Turns and rounds are different things. Once per turn, not once per round.