Personally, I'm a big fan of monsters who just turn into a different monster when reduced to 0 hp, if you're going for that "why won't it stay dead!!?!?!?" reaction
That's not a bad idea. How and why though? Does a goblin morph into a wolf, then into a wyvern? Because ... that feels like cheating to me, unless there's an explanation somewhere =)
It's usually something like "cursed or twisted creature has a true form that emerges from its corpse"
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid) PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I was thinking something like an ooze or .. well, basically a blob, a shoggoth. That you can batter apart, but if doesn't die, it just pulls itself back together, absorbing more stuff along the way. Like, any damage it inflicted before being splattered is added to it's HP total, and then it comes back in a shape vaguely resembling ... like, the fighter. Still a blob, but with a sort fighter-shaped hand puppet, that tries to speak - maybe the fighters favourite war cry.
And in the end, all you really need to do is pour salt on it, but until you find a way to stop it, it just get's worse and worse.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
And in the end, all you really need to do is pour salt on it, but until you find a way to stop it, it just get's worse and worse.
Trick monsters like that don't really belong in a monster manual, because people read monster manuals and someone's going to metagame their way into just solving it. Instead, insert them into an adventure. There's a standard way of doing this:
Regeneration. The $NAME regains $NUM Hit Points at the start of each of its turns. If the $NAME $RULE, this trait doesn’t function on the $NAME’s next turn. The $NAME dies only if it starts its turn with 0 Hit Points and doesn’t regenerate.
Just come up with an appropriate rule. In most cases it's "takes damage of a particular type", but you can write in whatever you want.
And in the end, all you really need to do is pour salt on it, but until you find a way to stop it, it just get's worse and worse.
Trick monsters like that don't really belong in a monster manual, because people read monster manuals and someone's going to metagame their way into just solving it. Instead, insert them into an adventure. There's a standard way of doing this:
Regeneration. The $NAME regains $NUM Hit Points at the start of each of its turns. If the $NAME $RULE, this trait doesn’t function on the $NAME’s next turn. The $NAME dies only if it starts its turn with 0 Hit Points and doesn’t regenerate.
Just come up with an appropriate rule. In most cases it's "takes damage of a particular type", but you can write in whatever you want.
I never really use anything from the monster manual.
Because if I use anything from the monster manual, everyone knows what they are fighting. There's no mystery, no surprise, no wonder - no one feels any real anxiety, other than if they realise the CR is high compared to their level.
So .. it's not that I never use anything that's in there. It's just never the same as what's in there.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
You can still use printed monsters for inspiration, but I don't think the rules provide any advice for how to handle trick monsters. The general rule is:
Limit its offensive power so that the PCs have time to figure out how to deal with it.
If there's a reasonable chance that the PCs simply can't achieve the required method of beating the monster (say, damage type, spell, or special item they might not have), make sure it's still possible to run away -- for example, it might be slow, or have movement limits (e.g. vampires and thresholds), or be temporarily incapacitated by a beating, or just not inclined to chase.
Why start this thread? Well, it's the story and lore forum, isn't it? So either I can draw on some other posters who know all manner of monsters I don't know - or maybe I can find some inspiration, cook something up, or maybe just have a fun conversation with others who like lore and monsters (that maybe don't die).
I'm not sure I'd call it a trick monster. I mean I get why you'd call it that. But the salt thing is just an example - there was a typef ooze in 2e, right? Anyways, I mean it more like in computer games where, over the course of a fight - or several fights - you figure out what the trick is. How the monster keeps not dying, coming back, whatever. So eventually you find and destroy the phylactery, douse the coffin with holy water, return the bones of the ghost to the grave.
Return the axe to the grip of Mok Turoknin.
You know?
I had an enemy once - an NPC, more precisely - that was a colony of necro-beetles. They would animate a corpse and live on, and off, it. Eat everything that wasn't bone, and retain some trace of memories, and animate to bones of course. As long as one beetle remained, they'd survive, find another host, grow again.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I believe in Deities and Demigods, most of the Gods had a stat block for their Avatar. So if you fought them, you could kill the Avatar but you weren't fighting The God. So you could never defeat a God, you could just banish them for a time.
One of my favourites at the moment is the trickery approach.
Picture the scene - the party are fighting the BBEG, and every time he goes down, he gets back up. The party notice he seems kinda weak, but they are confused why he won't die.
Turns out that the "BBEG" is a suit of armour which is being animated and then illusioned over by a pair of mischievous creatures (EG Faerie Dragons). Every time they kill it, they cast "Animate object" on it again, and the illusion is kept up throughout, so they keep on getting up, over and over.
Also for consideration, is the Phoenix. I have a homebrew Magma Phoenix, which is reborn from the lava of it's lair after a time if slain, so I think that kinda fits!
One of my favourites at the moment is the trickery approach.
Picture the scene - the party are fighting the BBEG, and every time he goes down, he gets back up. The party notice he seems kinda weak, but they are confused why he won't die.
Turns out that the "BBEG" is a suit of armour which is being animated and then illusioned over by a pair of mischievous creatures (EG Faerie Dragons). Every time they kill it, they cast "Animate object" on it again, and the illusion is kept up throughout, so they keep on getting up, over and over.
Also for consideration, is the Phoenix. I have a homebrew Magma Phoenix, which is reborn from the lava of it's lair after a time if slain, so I think that kinda fits!
I did almost the exact same thing once. Well, 'exact' is a bit of a stretch.
In the attic of an abandoned mansion, an imp - left behind by the old master of the house - had built a sort of efficy out of an old suit of armor, and used illusions to make it's eyes glow, and it's voice to sound ominous and loud, and for a longish while it tricked the party to do it's bidding. I had considerable fun with this.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Any summoner with some form of concealment and subtle spellcasting can just cast a summoning spell, and when it gets destroyed cast another one. It will eventually run out of whatever resource it's using to summon, but it's still a big pain if you don't find the spellcaster.
Any summoner with some form of concealment and subtle spellcasting can just cast a summoning spell, and when it gets destroyed cast another one. It will eventually run out of whatever resource it's using to summon, but it's still a big pain if you don't find the spellcaster.
Not a bad angle. With summons, it's possible both to drain party ressources, and target their specific strenghts and weaknesses: If a fire mage, summon things with resistante. If they're weak to con saves, summon ... well, whatever makes sense, something with cold attacks or something =)
And it's totally fair too, watch their tactics (while invisible), and summon something new to bother them based on what you learned.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
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It's usually something like "cursed or twisted creature has a true form that emerges from its corpse"
The lesser star spawn emissary has that mechanic
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Well, if so, it does eventually die.
I was thinking something like an ooze or .. well, basically a blob, a shoggoth. That you can batter apart, but if doesn't die, it just pulls itself back together, absorbing more stuff along the way. Like, any damage it inflicted before being splattered is added to it's HP total, and then it comes back in a shape vaguely resembling ... like, the fighter. Still a blob, but with a sort fighter-shaped hand puppet, that tries to speak - maybe the fighters favourite war cry.
And in the end, all you really need to do is pour salt on it, but until you find a way to stop it, it just get's worse and worse.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Trick monsters like that don't really belong in a monster manual, because people read monster manuals and someone's going to metagame their way into just solving it. Instead, insert them into an adventure. There's a standard way of doing this:
Just come up with an appropriate rule. In most cases it's "takes damage of a particular type", but you can write in whatever you want.
I never really use anything from the monster manual.
Because if I use anything from the monster manual, everyone knows what they are fighting. There's no mystery, no surprise, no wonder - no one feels any real anxiety, other than if they realise the CR is high compared to their level.
So .. it's not that I never use anything that's in there. It's just never the same as what's in there.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
One, not everyone memorizes the monster manual: most of my players haven't even read the MM at all.
Two, if you don't use printed monsters, what did you even start this thread for?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
You can still use printed monsters for inspiration, but I don't think the rules provide any advice for how to handle trick monsters. The general rule is:
Why start this thread? Well, it's the story and lore forum, isn't it? So either I can draw on some other posters who know all manner of monsters I don't know - or maybe I can find some inspiration, cook something up, or maybe just have a fun conversation with others who like lore and monsters (that maybe don't die).
I'm not sure I'd call it a trick monster. I mean I get why you'd call it that. But the salt thing is just an example - there was a typef ooze in 2e, right? Anyways, I mean it more like in computer games where, over the course of a fight - or several fights - you figure out what the trick is. How the monster keeps not dying, coming back, whatever. So eventually you find and destroy the phylactery, douse the coffin with holy water, return the bones of the ghost to the grave.
Return the axe to the grip of Mok Turoknin.
You know?
I had an enemy once - an NPC, more precisely - that was a colony of necro-beetles. They would animate a corpse and live on, and off, it. Eat everything that wasn't bone, and retain some trace of memories, and animate to bones of course. As long as one beetle remained, they'd survive, find another host, grow again.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I believe in Deities and Demigods, most of the Gods had a stat block for their Avatar. So if you fought them, you could kill the Avatar but you weren't fighting The God. So you could never defeat a God, you could just banish them for a time.
One of my favourites at the moment is the trickery approach.
Picture the scene - the party are fighting the BBEG, and every time he goes down, he gets back up. The party notice he seems kinda weak, but they are confused why he won't die.
Turns out that the "BBEG" is a suit of armour which is being animated and then illusioned over by a pair of mischievous creatures (EG Faerie Dragons). Every time they kill it, they cast "Animate object" on it again, and the illusion is kept up throughout, so they keep on getting up, over and over.
Also for consideration, is the Phoenix. I have a homebrew Magma Phoenix, which is reborn from the lava of it's lair after a time if slain, so I think that kinda fits!
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I did almost the exact same thing once. Well, 'exact' is a bit of a stretch.
In the attic of an abandoned mansion, an imp - left behind by the old master of the house - had built a sort of efficy out of an old suit of armor, and used illusions to make it's eyes glow, and it's voice to sound ominous and loud, and for a longish while it tricked the party to do it's bidding. I had considerable fun with this.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Any summoner with some form of concealment and subtle spellcasting can just cast a summoning spell, and when it gets destroyed cast another one. It will eventually run out of whatever resource it's using to summon, but it's still a big pain if you don't find the spellcaster.
Not a bad angle. With summons, it's possible both to drain party ressources, and target their specific strenghts and weaknesses: If a fire mage, summon things with resistante. If they're weak to con saves, summon ... well, whatever makes sense, something with cold attacks or something =)
And it's totally fair too, watch their tactics (while invisible), and summon something new to bother them based on what you learned.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.