First - yes, i know some people find the very concept of this build offensive. Just bare with me.
Has anyone ever seen such a build work well from Levels 7-12? Most of the ones i've seen only seem to "kick in" around level 12, when many campaigns are ending. Other builds seem to give up key features (like Heavy Armor or the Extra Attack from Paladin) to make it "work".
A early-ish build with Mountain Dwarf is playable at around level 6. Start 17 STR 17 CHA (assuming you are using the optional rule to move racial bonus stats around). Go Paly 2 Sorcerer 4 using the ASI to bump STR and CHA to 18. Take Quickened spell as one of your Metamagics. Now you can Quicken a Hold Person on a tough enemy and whack it with a Booming/Green Flame Blade with a Divine Smite on top that auto crits if it hits (assuming the Hold Person got through). Then you can decide if you want to go Paly for Extra Attack or continue with Sorcerer for more spell slots and eventually access to Hold Monster.
First - yes, i know some people find the very concept of this build offensive. Just bare with me.
Has anyone ever seen such a build work well from Levels 7-12? Most of the ones i've seen only seem to "kick in" around level 12, when many campaigns are ending. Other builds seem to give up key features (like Heavy Armor or the Extra Attack from Paladin) to make it "work".
1st Level : Paladin, grab a Greatsword & some Plate Armour 2nd Level : Paladin, for that sweet Divine Smite and Caster level = 1, always prepare Bless 3rd Level : Sorcerer (Divine Soul), take Shield and Absorb Elements, Green Flame Blade + Booming Blade, Caster level = 2 4th Level : Sorcerer, take Healing Word, Caster level = 3 5th Level : Sorcerer, for metamagic - take Quicken Spell (ask your DM if they'd allow Twin Spell to apply to GFB/BB), pick up Misty Step, Caster level = 4 6th Level : Sorcerer, for an ASI - grab Great Weapon Master. Caster level = 5 7th Level : Paladin, (Vengeance or Devotion) so you can use your CD to get off the-5/+10 GWM hit more reliably. 8th Level : Warlock Hexblade, use that HBC for even more damage + improved Crit range 9th Level : Paladin : ASI to boost your CHA Caster level = 6 10th Level+ : either Warlock or Sorcerer depending on how often your table takes SRs.
How to Play: 1st round : Quicken Bless on yourself and your allies of choice (upcast in beneficial), then use GWM -5/+10 comboed with BB/GFB with your action, Smite whenever you get a Crit (or against the last BBEG of the day), otherwise convert spellslots into SP to quicken another BB/GFB for a pseudo-extra attack (unless your GWM BA attack triggers). Swap your quickening for Misty Step / Healing Word whenever they are needed.
Note: this really only works well in a table with relatively few encounters per day.
At 7th level on a Nova turn you are doing: [ 2d6+3+10 (GWM)+1d8(GFB)+1d8+3(GFB 2ndary)+3d8 (Smite) ] *2 = 91 damage
It seems the new Lunar sorcerer option is slightly better way to go - at 6 they can quicken BB or GFB for one sorcery point, or even better Twin BB for 0 sorcery point cost.
First - yes, i know some people find the very concept of this build offensive. Just bare with me.
Has anyone ever seen such a build work well from Levels 7-12? Most of the ones i've seen only seem to "kick in" around level 12, when many campaigns are ending. Other builds seem to give up key features (like Heavy Armor or the Extra Attack from Paladin) to make it "work".
1st Level : Paladin, grab a Greatsword & some Plate Armour 2nd Level : Paladin, for that sweet Divine Smite and Caster level = 1, always prepare Bless 3rd Level : Sorcerer (Divine Soul), take Shield and Absorb Elements, Green Flame Blade + Booming Blade, Caster level = 2 4th Level : Sorcerer, take Healing Word, Caster level = 3 5th Level : Sorcerer, for metamagic - take Quicken Spell (ask your DM if they'd allow Twin Spell to apply to GFB/BB), pick up Misty Step, Caster level = 4 6th Level : Sorcerer, for an ASI - grab Great Weapon Master. Caster level = 5 7th Level : Paladin, (Vengeance or Devotion) so you can use your CD to get off the-5/+10 GWM hit more reliably. 8th Level : Warlock Hexblade, use that HBC for even more damage + improved Crit range 9th Level : Paladin : ASI to boost your CHA Caster level = 6 10th Level+ : either Warlock or Sorcerer depending on how often your table takes SRs.
How to Play: 1st round : Quicken Bless on yourself and your allies of choice (upcast in beneficial), then use GWM -5/+10 comboed with BB/GFB with your action, Smite whenever you get a Crit (or against the last BBEG of the day), otherwise convert spellslots into SP to quicken another BB/GFB for a pseudo-extra attack (unless your GWM BA attack triggers). Swap your quickening for Misty Step / Healing Word whenever they are needed.
Note: this really only works well in a table with relatively few encounters per day.
At 7th level on a Nova turn you are doing: [ 2d6+3+10 (GWM)+1d8(GFB)+1d8+3(GFB 2ndary)+3d8 (Smite) ] *2 = 91 damage
Planning on getting plate armor at 1st level sounds extremely optimistic.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
First - yes, i know some people find the very concept of this build offensive. Just bare with me.
Has anyone ever seen such a build work well from Levels 7-12? Most of the ones i've seen only seem to "kick in" around level 12, when many campaigns are ending. Other builds seem to give up key features (like Heavy Armor or the Extra Attack from Paladin) to make it "work".
1st Level : Paladin, grab a Greatsword & some Plate Armour 2nd Level : Paladin, for that sweet Divine Smite and Caster level = 1, always prepare Bless 3rd Level : Sorcerer (Divine Soul), take Shield and Absorb Elements, Green Flame Blade + Booming Blade, Caster level = 2 4th Level : Sorcerer, take Healing Word, Caster level = 3 5th Level : Sorcerer, for metamagic - take Quicken Spell (ask your DM if they'd allow Twin Spell to apply to GFB/BB), pick up Misty Step, Caster level = 4 6th Level : Sorcerer, for an ASI - grab Great Weapon Master. Caster level = 5 7th Level : Paladin, (Vengeance or Devotion) so you can use your CD to get off the-5/+10 GWM hit more reliably. 8th Level : Warlock Hexblade, use that HBC for even more damage + improved Crit range 9th Level : Paladin : ASI to boost your CHA Caster level = 6 10th Level+ : either Warlock or Sorcerer depending on how often your table takes SRs.
How to Play: 1st round : Quicken Bless on yourself and your allies of choice (upcast in beneficial), then use GWM -5/+10 comboed with BB/GFB with your action, Smite whenever you get a Crit (or against the last BBEG of the day), otherwise convert spellslots into SP to quicken another BB/GFB for a pseudo-extra attack (unless your GWM BA attack triggers). Swap your quickening for Misty Step / Healing Word whenever they are needed.
Note: this really only works well in a table with relatively few encounters per day.
At 7th level on a Nova turn you are doing: [ 2d6+3+10 (GWM)+1d8(GFB)+1d8+3(GFB 2ndary)+3d8 (Smite) ] *2 = 91 damage
Planning on getting plate armor at 1st level sounds extremely optimistic.
That's irrelevant, any character with heavy armour proficiency at 1st level (which this build has) is entirely viable with or without plate at 1st level. You get Plate whenever any other character would get it, but with Shield on top by 3rd level you're munchkined as much as the next character.
Eh, it's really not that broken. It doesn't do jack to effects that go off saving throws instead of attack rolls, and every time you cast Shield you're burning a slot that could have been used to smite with. And my personal experience is that it's rare to get plate armor before 4th or 5th level, before that you're probably stuck with your starter chain mail.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
First - yes, i know some people find the very concept of this build offensive. Just bare with me.
Has anyone ever seen such a build work well from Levels 7-12? Most of the ones i've seen only seem to "kick in" around level 12, when many campaigns are ending. Other builds seem to give up key features (like Heavy Armor or the Extra Attack from Paladin) to make it "work".
1st Level : Paladin, grab a Greatsword & some Plate Armour 2nd Level : Paladin, for that sweet Divine Smite and Caster level = 1, always prepare Bless 3rd Level : Sorcerer (Divine Soul), take Shield and Absorb Elements, Green Flame Blade + Booming Blade, Caster level = 2 4th Level : Sorcerer, take Healing Word, Caster level = 3 5th Level : Sorcerer, for metamagic - take Quicken Spell (ask your DM if they'd allow Twin Spell to apply to GFB/BB), pick up Misty Step, Caster level = 4 6th Level : Sorcerer, for an ASI - grab Great Weapon Master. Caster level = 5 7th Level : Paladin, (Vengeance or Devotion) so you can use your CD to get off the-5/+10 GWM hit more reliably. 8th Level : Warlock Hexblade, use that HBC for even more damage + improved Crit range 9th Level : Paladin : ASI to boost your CHA Caster level = 6 10th Level+ : either Warlock or Sorcerer depending on how often your table takes SRs.
How to Play: 1st round : Quicken Bless on yourself and your allies of choice (upcast in beneficial), then use GWM -5/+10 comboed with BB/GFB with your action, Smite whenever you get a Crit (or against the last BBEG of the day), otherwise convert spellslots into SP to quicken another BB/GFB for a pseudo-extra attack (unless your GWM BA attack triggers). Swap your quickening for Misty Step / Healing Word whenever they are needed.
Note: this really only works well in a table with relatively few encounters per day.
At 7th level on a Nova turn you are doing: [ 2d6+3+10 (GWM)+1d8(GFB)+1d8+3(GFB 2ndary)+3d8 (Smite) ] *2 = 91 damage
Eh, it's really not that broken. It doesn't do jack to effects that go off saving throws instead of attack rolls, and every time you cast Shield you're burning a slot that could have been used to smite with. And my personal experience is that it's rare to get plate armor before 4th or 5th level, before that you're probably stuck with your starter chain mail.
Yes. Also you can take the Defense bonus at Paladin level 2 for the +1 to AC.
First - yes, i know some people find the very concept of this build offensive. Just bare with me.
Has anyone ever seen such a build work well from Levels 7-12? Most of the ones i've seen only seem to "kick in" around level 12, when many campaigns are ending. Other builds seem to give up key features (like Heavy Armor or the Extra Attack from Paladin) to make it "work".
1st Level : Paladin, grab a Greatsword & some Plate Armour 2nd Level : Paladin, for that sweet Divine Smite and Caster level = 1, always prepare Bless 3rd Level : Sorcerer (Divine Soul), take Shield and Absorb Elements, Green Flame Blade + Booming Blade, Caster level = 2 4th Level : Sorcerer, take Healing Word, Caster level = 3 5th Level : Sorcerer, for metamagic - take Quicken Spell (ask your DM if they'd allow Twin Spell to apply to GFB/BB), pick up Misty Step, Caster level = 4 6th Level : Sorcerer, for an ASI - grab Great Weapon Master. Caster level = 5 7th Level : Paladin, (Vengeance or Devotion) so you can use your CD to get off the-5/+10 GWM hit more reliably. 8th Level : Warlock Hexblade, use that HBC for even more damage + improved Crit range 9th Level : Paladin : ASI to boost your CHA Caster level = 6 10th Level+ : either Warlock or Sorcerer depending on how often your table takes SRs.
How to Play: 1st round : Quicken Bless on yourself and your allies of choice (upcast in beneficial), then use GWM -5/+10 comboed with BB/GFB with your action, Smite whenever you get a Crit (or against the last BBEG of the day), otherwise convert spellslots into SP to quicken another BB/GFB for a pseudo-extra attack (unless your GWM BA attack triggers). Swap your quickening for Misty Step / Healing Word whenever they are needed.
Note: this really only works well in a table with relatively few encounters per day.
At 7th level on a Nova turn you are doing: [ 2d6+3+10 (GWM)+1d8(GFB)+1d8+3(GFB 2ndary)+3d8 (Smite) ] *2 = 91 damage
Interesting .... Not Polearm Master?
You can't use the PAM bonus action attack unless you take the Attack Action making it incompatible with BB/GFB builds, whereas GWM's BA attack triggers on "an attack with a melee weapon" thus can be use with BB/GFB.
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First - yes, i know some people find the very concept of this build offensive. Just bare with me.
Has anyone ever seen such a build work well from Levels 7-12? Most of the ones i've seen only seem to "kick in" around level 12, when many campaigns are ending. Other builds seem to give up key features (like Heavy Armor or the Extra Attack from Paladin) to make it "work".
What have people actually seen work?
Thanks.
A early-ish build with Mountain Dwarf is playable at around level 6. Start 17 STR 17 CHA (assuming you are using the optional rule to move racial bonus stats around). Go Paly 2 Sorcerer 4 using the ASI to bump STR and CHA to 18. Take Quickened spell as one of your Metamagics. Now you can Quicken a Hold Person on a tough enemy and whack it with a Booming/Green Flame Blade with a Divine Smite on top that auto crits if it hits (assuming the Hold Person got through). Then you can decide if you want to go Paly for Extra Attack or continue with Sorcerer for more spell slots and eventually access to Hold Monster.
Yup I've seen it work.
Point Buy: 15 +1 (racial), 10, 14, 8, 10, 14+2 (racial)
1st Level : Paladin, grab a Greatsword & some Plate Armour
2nd Level : Paladin, for that sweet Divine Smite and Caster level = 1, always prepare Bless
3rd Level : Sorcerer (Divine Soul), take Shield and Absorb Elements, Green Flame Blade + Booming Blade, Caster level = 2
4th Level : Sorcerer, take Healing Word, Caster level = 3
5th Level : Sorcerer, for metamagic - take Quicken Spell (ask your DM if they'd allow Twin Spell to apply to GFB/BB), pick up Misty Step, Caster level = 4
6th Level : Sorcerer, for an ASI - grab Great Weapon Master. Caster level = 5
7th Level : Paladin, (Vengeance or Devotion) so you can use your CD to get off the-5/+10 GWM hit more reliably.
8th Level : Warlock Hexblade, use that HBC for even more damage + improved Crit range
9th Level : Paladin : ASI to boost your CHA Caster level = 6
10th Level+ : either Warlock or Sorcerer depending on how often your table takes SRs.
How to Play: 1st round : Quicken Bless on yourself and your allies of choice (upcast in beneficial), then use GWM -5/+10 comboed with BB/GFB with your action, Smite whenever you get a Crit (or against the last BBEG of the day), otherwise convert spellslots into SP to quicken another BB/GFB for a pseudo-extra attack (unless your GWM BA attack triggers). Swap your quickening for Misty Step / Healing Word whenever they are needed.
Note: this really only works well in a table with relatively few encounters per day.
At 7th level on a Nova turn you are doing: [ 2d6+3+10 (GWM)+1d8(GFB)+1d8+3(GFB 2ndary)+3d8 (Smite) ] *2 = 91 damage
It seems the new Lunar sorcerer option is slightly better way to go - at 6 they can quicken BB or GFB for one sorcery point, or even better Twin BB for 0 sorcery point cost.
Planning on getting plate armor at 1st level sounds extremely optimistic.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
That's irrelevant, any character with heavy armour proficiency at 1st level (which this build has) is entirely viable with or without plate at 1st level. You get Plate whenever any other character would get it, but with Shield on top by 3rd level you're munchkined as much as the next character.
Eh, it's really not that broken. It doesn't do jack to effects that go off saving throws instead of attack rolls, and every time you cast Shield you're burning a slot that could have been used to smite with. And my personal experience is that it's rare to get plate armor before 4th or 5th level, before that you're probably stuck with your starter chain mail.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Interesting .... Not Polearm Master?
Yes. Also you can take the Defense bonus at Paladin level 2 for the +1 to AC.
You can't use the PAM bonus action attack unless you take the Attack Action making it incompatible with BB/GFB builds, whereas GWM's BA attack triggers on "an attack with a melee weapon" thus can be use with BB/GFB.