I am fascinated by the idea of optimizing a Druid multi-classing with a Cleric and a Ranger, having the best damage spells and the best healing spells all at once. Here is my line of thinking.
Druids, Clerics and Rangers all use Wisdom as their spell-casting stat.
5 Levels of a Half Caster combined with 15 Full Caster Levels will still get a 9th level spell slot by Level 20. You could potentially have 8th level spells as well as five ranger levels with extra attack if you went Druid 15, Ranger 5 or Cleric 15, Ranger 5. This is similar to the "Paladin-Sorceror" combination that is very popular. However, you could view your higher level spell slots as just Upcast Fodder and and instead double your spell list on the bottom end. This wouldn't always be desirable, but if done intentionally, it could be really cool.
Druid 7 gets Conjure Minor Elementals, which is arguably the bast damage boosting concentration spell in the game which can be upcast to 7d8 Damage with a 9th level spell slot (eventually). Light Domain Cleric 3 gets scorching ray, so by Player Level 10 you could fire off scorching ray with conjure minor elementals, just like an evocation wizard. Except you would also have all of the cleric and druid healing spells, plus wild shape and other features. Are you excited yet?
Circle of the Sea Druids get Wrath of the Sea at level 3, which can deal 5d6 Cold (Wisdom 20) on a bonus attack. It gets even better at Druid level 10 when you can now get Flight without using your concentration. Combine that with Conjure Minor Elementals and you can deal 5d6 Cold + 7d8 Whatever on a bonus attack. I'm not sure if there is a higher damage bonus attack in the game, and this particular one does not even require a spell slot. Other druids get other bonuses, but Circle of the Sea really takes the cake here.
Shillelagh is amazing and can be combined with Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade for some great damage (using Sage background, magic initiate). With Conjure Minor Elementals you can add another 2d8 - 7d8 of damage per attack, and you'll be rivaling the party's rogue after Druid 7.
Ranger brings a neat bag of tricks during the end game, and in my opinion is a better dip than Fighter because of its unique abilities. In particular, Hail of Thorns combined with True Strike and Conjure Minor Elementals can turn a 1st level spell slot into an absolute wrecking ball. Imagine "Weapon" +3d6 Radiant + 1d10 5ft AOE & 7d8 Elemental all for the price of a Level 1 spell. Throw in "Hordebreaker" from the Hunter subclass and add another "Weapon" +7d8 to something that already got hit by Hail of Thorns and CME. Insane damage. Of course, you might disagree with this application of CME to Hail of Thorns.
The big trade off is losing higher level spells in exchange for more low level options. But if your goal is to simply do Scorching Ray + CME or maybe Fireball with CME . . . this is a pretty optimized concept because of all of the utility you get with 5th or 6th level Druid spells and 2nd or 3rd level Cleric spells, plus the unique ranger spells.
Okay, so for now I think the final build would be something like: Any Druid 10 - Light Cleric 5 - Any Ranger 5. Custom Lineage race, Warcaster Feat +1 Wisdom. Background: Sage, with True Strike and Booming Blade, and either Shield or Silvery Barbs. First ASI gets Wisdom to 20, and then the others are player's choice.
There are two stages of the build: Stage I (Levels 1-12 or 13), and Stage II (Level 20).
Here are some "custom lineage" Level 13 subclass combos I am thinking of:
Each one of these has their pros and cons. Each of them could be delayed by one level (to 14) in order to go Druid 8 and get 2 ASI. All of them unlock the core Scorching Ray + Conjure Minor Elementals mechanic at level 10 (or 11 if you aren't using custom lineage).
After the Level 13 or 14 builds, you could go Ranger 5, Cleric 5, Druid 10, or even Ranger 5, Cleric 3, Druid 12. You might even go Ranger 3, Cleric 3, Druid 14, but that might cost you the Epic Boon unless your DM is nice. Pretty much any ratio I mentioned here gets the core SR+CME mechanic and 9th level spell slot.
- - - - What do you think? What are the pitfalls? What am I missing? What would you do differently?
The biggest pitfall I see is you get no chance at a ASI/Feat boost for the 2 classes that stop at level 3. The one that stops at 7 you get one chance (you did put in a comment, but it seems to read as an afterthought, not as a analyzed point. Are getting those other classes and not reaching 4 worth it? Many times the really good items are much higher in level. While dips into another class can be useful, I am not seeing that advantage vs adding feat or 2 to abilities.
Cleric 3 isn't giving you any healing spells you don't already have. 3 levels to get Scorching Ray seems like a waste - so many better things to do unless you really need to kill something right now at long range, plus you have to be at exactly 10 or 15 feet range for this to work. A druid with 1 attack is not going to benefit from CME, should probably be casting conjure Animals or Conjure Woodland Beings and strafing the battlefield. The attack enhancers work best for multi-attackers, either another class or a moon druid with a multi-attack wildshape. The "emanation" spells do well upcast and that's what a lot of clerics/druids use upcasts for, but it's nice to have those other higher level spells in your toolkit. This whole thing also takes an insane amount of time to come online.
Well the final build I am thinking is Druid 10, Cleric 5, Ranger 5 so by level 20 you do have 4 ASIs and one is an epic boon level.
The reason I am thinking 7, 3, 3 first is because custom lineage allows a hybrid feat at level 1, bumping wisdom to 18 and then DRUID 4 gets it to 20 if we just do att points. Once Wisdom is 20 we are pretty solid for attacks and spells.
The ASI would probably be:
Druid 4: +2 Wisdom Druid 8: Resiliance CON +1 Con Cleric 4: Spell Sniper Ranger 4: Epic Boon (player’s choice)
We get Wisdom 20 at level 4 and postpone the other ASIs in order to get more class features
Cleric 3 isn't giving you any healing spells you don't already have. 3 levels to get Scorching Ray seems like a waste - so many better things to do unless you really need to kill something right now at long range, plus you have to be at exactly 10 or 15 feet range for this to work. A druid with 1 attack is not going to benefit from CME, should probably be casting conjure Animals or Conjure Woodland Beings and strafing the battlefield. The attack enhancers work best for multi-attackers, either another class or a moon druid with a multi-attack wildshape. The "emanation" spells do well upcast and that's what a lot of clerics/druids use upcasts for, but it's nice to have those other higher level spells in your toolkit. This whole thing also takes an insane amount of time to come online.
Heals - Check again. You get Prayer of Healing @2 and a bunch of other defensive spells like Sanctuary. At Cleric 5 you get Beacon of Hope, Mass Healing Word, and Remove Curse. But the key part of this is you get extra “prepares” so you can use your Cleric levels to take over some of the high usage things like healing word and then free up your druid prepares for higher level options.
Scorching Ray - My friend, it starts at 3 rays and adds a ray for each level upcast. CME adds 2d8 elemental but adds a 1d8 per level. Each ray adds the CME…. this is…. BUTTER…. do the math…. it gets ridonkulous
15 foot Range - Yes I agree that is a limitation. But melee is 5ft range.
Druid 4: +2 Wisdom Druid 8: Resiliance CON +1 Con Cleric 4: Spell Sniper Ranger 4: Epic Boon (player’s choice)
Are you starting these Characters at Level 1 and working them up to 20? Or poof they are a high level to start with? I also think you are a bit off. The Ranger 4 will make you level 16. So too soon for an Epic Boon.
Instead of a 9th level Druid, you want a 1st level Cleric. As a Multiclass necessity, you need to think, if it is a worthwhile pain to endure? You are basically stalling for the next couple of levels. You are paying a lot of points and time into 1st level character.
The same can be said at 13th level.
Multiclass is less painful if you start with multiple levels already multiclassed. This is not to say don't multiclass but it is the negative of multiclass, that many proponents seem to conveniently not state.
Druid 4: +2 Wisdom Druid 8: Resiliance CON +1 Con Cleric 4: Spell Sniper Ranger 4: Epic Boon (player’s choice)
Are you starting these Characters at Level 1 and working them up to 20? Or poof they are a high level to start with? I also think you are a bit off. The Ranger 4 will make you level 16. So too soon for an Epic Boon.
Instead of a 9th level Druid, you want a 1st level Cleric. As a Multiclass necessity, you need to think, if it is a worthwhile pain to endure? You are basically stalling for the next couple of levels. You are paying a lot of points and time into 1st level character.
The same can be said at 13th level.
Multiclass is less painful if you start with multiple levels already multiclassed. This is not to say don't multiclass but it is the negative of multiclass, that many proponents seem to conveniently not state.
Remember Multiclassing into another full caster still gives you the spell slot progression. Its not like multiclassing into a fighter or rogue. Cleric 1 gives heavy armor upgrade, and a ton of utility. It gives more prepared spells. Yes, postponing 5th level spells is a tradeoff. But we are getting some great low levels that upcast well. Doing this actually frees you up to prepare more high level spells while the lower cleric prepres the low level staples.
My ASI levels in that list are just labels for where they occur not when they occur. Ranger 4 would be at Character Level 19, and Ranger 5 would be the finale. This I am pretty sure of.
One could just go Druid 10, Cleric 5, Ranger 5. That would be very simple.
But I think its possibly better to go Druid 7, Cleric 3 for the core mechanic, and then go Druid to 8, Cleric to 4, Druid 9-10, Cleric to 5, Ranger 1-5.
One could always flip it and go Ranger 5, Cleric 5, Druid 10. But then spell casting is major delayed the entire game even if it ends up the same. I think its far better to start Druid.
1) you are mixing 2024 & 2014 rules which is highly DM dependent, Custom Lineage itself is a DM-fiat race and is banned at many tables.
2) CME has been Errata-ed so it scales by 1d8 every two levels now, the same as Spirit Shroud, this makes Druid entirely superfluous since Cleric gets Spirit Shroud.
3) CME triggers off of attacks only so Wrath of the Sea and Fireball do not trigger CME. CME is concentration, and requires melee so you need to take Reslient:Con + Warcaster to have any chance of keeping it up vs CR 20+ enemies.
4) Spending your highest level spell slot to match a Rogue for 1-2 rounds is a huge waste, since a Rogue can deal that damage all day long, if you want to do Rogue-level damage, play a Rogue.
5) Shillelagh + Booming Blade still leaves you behind most martial characters (especially in 2024) so if you want to do melee damage your much better off in a melee-focused class.
6) Heavy Armour requires STR 15+, so how are you able to use it with this character? Are you dumping DEX thus being a cripple until you MC into Cleric?
1) you are mixing 2024 & 2014 rules which is highly DM dependent, Custom Lineage itself is a DM-fiat race and is banned at many tables.
2) CME has been Errata-ed so it scales by 1d8 every two levels now, the same as Spirit Shroud, this makes Druid entirely superfluous since Cleric gets Spirit Shroud.
3) CME triggers off of attacks only so Wrath of the Sea and Fireball do not trigger CME. CME is concentration, and requires melee so you need to take Reslient:Con + Warcaster to have any chance of keeping it up vs CR 20+ enemies.
4) Spending your highest level spell slot to match a Rogue for 1-2 rounds is a huge waste, since a Rogue can deal that damage all day long, if you want to do Rogue-level damage, play a Rogue.
5) Shillelagh + Booming Blade still leaves you behind most martial characters (especially in 2024) so if you want to do melee damage your much better off in a melee-focused class.
6) Heavy Armour requires STR 15+, so how are you able to use it with this character? Are you dumping DEX thus being a cripple until you MC into Cleric?
1) I did address this by suggesting Druid 8 first if not CL. 2) Interesting. My app says every level. Spirit shroud is every two levels. This build gets both and can easily compare them. It is not superfluous because they do different damage types and CME is superior as written because it has a range of 15 instead of 10. Clerics do not get concentration-less flight usually so that is pretty huge. 3) I will research this. Scorching Ray uses attack rolls. 4) I like rogues. That 35 sneak attack damage at level 20 is interesting. An Eldritch Knight peaks at 4th level and only adds 2d8 one use of CME per day. I am pretty sure this build hits harder than both and also gets more spells. 5) This is just what we do when we don’t want to use spells. For martials, its ALL they do. 6) True. Have you seen Planet of the Apes? LLLOOOLLL Maybe I will just go Thaumaturge and skip that aesthetic.
Scorching Ray attacks at 5 feet will be at disadvantage unless you invest in Spell Sniper. I suggest that using high level spell slots on it will deplete your spells quickly using it on single targets.
Cleric 3 to get Prayer of Healing is a high investment just to get a spell. That's losing 1 or 2 higher levels of Druid spells. Same for Cleric 5, that's 2 or 3 levels of Druid spells.
Certainly this can be fun because fun is what you want it to be. It doesn't seem optimal, though, becasue optimal is probably using those higher level spell slots for upcast Conjure Animals or damaging Emanations, or strong higher level Druid spells.
Scorching Ray attacks at 5 feet will be at disadvantage unless you invest in Spell Sniper. I suggest that using high level spell slots on it will deplete your spells quickly using it on single targets.
Cleric 3 to get Prayer of Healing is a high investment just to get a spell. That's losing 1 or 2 higher levels of Druid spells. Same for Cleric 5, that's 2 or 3 levels of Druid spells.
Certainly this can be fun because fun is what you want it to be. It doesn't seem optimal, though, becasue optimal is probably using those higher level spell slots for upcast Conjure Animals or damaging Emanations, or strong higher level Druid spells.
I think I do want Spell Sniper for this.
Well I would try to fire off scorching ray @10-15 feet away. This is just one of the combos. I agree there are some other great ones.
The build is pure druid for at least 7 levels. I might even justify going 10 levels first for all the reasons you mention.
All that being the case, I really do like the synergy of Druid 7, Cleric 3, Ranger 3, with custom lineage.
Ranger 5 Druid 15 gets 8th Level Spells and a 9th Level spell slot. Ranger 3 Druid 17 or Cleric 3 Druid 17 gets the 9th level as well.
One could probably make the case to do some combo of Ranger 2, Cleric 1, Druid 17. Starting stats would be 15 STR, DEX 10, CON 14, INTELLIGENCE 8, WISDOM 15, CHA 8; with the extra points in WISDOM and whatever. This would get Heavy Armor, Cleric Level 1s, the Ranger unique spells, and a fighting style. You wouldn’t get any new subclass features. Alternatively you could do Druid 17 Fighter 3 and get the Eldritch Knight subclass. I think you’d have to order it Druid 15, Fighter 3, Druid 16-17 to get the epic boon.
I think the high level Druid Spells might be worth trading for other features. You can only cast one per day. Many have an expensive material component so there is a limit to their use in addition to the apell slot limitation. Archdruid got nerfed significantly from 2014 and is now skippable. Beast Form casting is essential for moon druids but not essential for other subclasses. Level 15 potent upgrade is nice, but there are other ways to add 1d8 weaopon damage and 300 range on a cantrip is cool but also only useful outdoors from the sky or a wide open field. 300 range is pointless indoors or underground, where almost all combat occurs in D&D. At level 15 I’m wanting to do anything but a cantrip in a combat round. And the ones I’d use most are the weapon types which largely are unaffected by it because they aren’t druid spells or ranged. But maybe there is a scenario where I am in a flying beast form and want to fire off a cantrip at something on the ground. Being that high up means I can’t support the party with any other spells or area effects. Its just not that useful.
So I think Druid 10 is absolutely necessary. Druid 15 is the highest I would go unless I was a Moon Druid - in which case I would probably do Druid 19 Something 1. Archdruid was nerfed and is now skippable
More Options:.
Druid 10, Cleric 5, Ranger 5 - Extra Attack, 9th level spell slot, expanded spell lists and preparations. 2 extra subclasses and features.
Druid 17, Cleric 3 - Full druid spell list, cleric subclass features and cleric 1s and 2s spells and preps.
I’m really thinking Sea Druid for Wrath of the Sea, but might also do Star Druid. Wild Shape flight is essential to the build I think.
Light Cleric is the best blaster cleric, its not even debatable. Getting access to Scorching Ray and Fireball using wisdom stat is super duper nice.
I think Ranger 3 would be awesome with either Gloomstalker or Hunter. But you could also have fun with Beast Master. I think Hunter’s Hordebreaker is very desireable considering it can be combined with green flame blade and CME. But this class would only be added in mid or late game so its possible these things would be underwhelming at that time. Many epic monsters have blindsight and fight alone, not in hordes. And a horde is best handled with an AOE spell. I really do enjoy some of the Level 1 Ranger unique spells so maybe a 2 level dip is all that is requires.
Eldritch Knight - Considering that Fighter 1 gets con saves, multiclassing into Eldritch Knight might also be powerful with the right setup. 7 levels of fighter gets War Magic and 2nd level wiz spells. 6, extra asi. 5 extra attack. 4 asi. 3 subclass. 2 action surge. War magic could only be used with wizard spells if I recall. Again this would be useful with a weapon playstyle but less so for blasting. 7 levels of EK only gets a handful of spells and you have to be very intentional. This would get us access to booming blade and free up our magic initiate to take something else. But a one level dip in any arcane class could do that, so its really not that impactful.
Ranger vs Fighter - Ranger has a better spell slot progression and they use wisdom. Fighter spells use intelligence our dump stat so you could only pick certain spells. They both get extra attack at 5 but EK’s best feature is at level 7 while Ranger gets great features at Ranger 3. Fighters get con saves, heavy armor, and action surge. In my opinion Rangers are the better choice at each level of dip, until Level 6 or 7. The extra ASI and War Magic are what might make EK7 worth it at all. So the question is: how much spellpower do you want to trade for Warmagic?
These are my additional thoughts, and are all on the table.
I need help from experienced players who know mid and endgame play enough to prune this down a bit.
Well I would try to fire off scorching ray @10-15 feet away. This is just one of the combos. I agree there are some other great ones.
The build is pure druid for at least 7 levels. I might even justify going 10 levels first for all the reasons you mention.
If you want to maintain 10-15 ft distance from enemies, you're going to want some kind of movement buff from feats, Mobile/Speedy might be a good choice. If you are pure druid form 7 levels as a gish, you do not want to be stuck with +0 Dexterity, you'd be much better off with 14 DEX and sticking with Medium armour + a shield.
Any background works with 2024, but keep in mind backgrounds like this are deliberately overtuned and intended to be used in specific campaigns, and lots of DMs won't let you take them outside that context.
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WISDOM-BASED BLASTER BUILDS
I am fascinated by the idea of optimizing a Druid multi-classing with a Cleric and a Ranger, having the best damage spells and the best healing spells all at once. Here is my line of thinking.
Okay, so for now I think the final build would be something like: Any Druid 10 - Light Cleric 5 - Any Ranger 5. Custom Lineage race, Warcaster Feat +1 Wisdom. Background: Sage, with True Strike and Booming Blade, and either Shield or Silvery Barbs. First ASI gets Wisdom to 20, and then the others are player's choice.
There are two stages of the build: Stage I (Levels 1-12 or 13), and Stage II (Level 20).
Here are some "custom lineage" Level 13 subclass combos I am thinking of:
Mystic Moon Stalker
Moon Druid 7, Light Cleric 3, Gloomstalker 3
Ocean Dawn Hunter
Sea Druid 7, Light Cleric 3, Hunter 3
Guardian of the Wild
Land Druid 7, Light Cleric 3, Beast Master 3
Starlight Wanderer
Star Druid 7, Light Cleric 3, Fey Wanderer 3
Each one of these has their pros and cons. Each of them could be delayed by one level (to 14) in order to go Druid 8 and get 2 ASI. All of them unlock the core Scorching Ray + Conjure Minor Elementals mechanic at level 10 (or 11 if you aren't using custom lineage).
After the Level 13 or 14 builds, you could go Ranger 5, Cleric 5, Druid 10, or even Ranger 5, Cleric 3, Druid 12. You might even go Ranger 3, Cleric 3, Druid 14, but that might cost you the Epic Boon unless your DM is nice. Pretty much any ratio I mentioned here gets the core SR+CME mechanic and 9th level spell slot.
- - - -
What do you think? What are the pitfalls? What am I missing? What would you do differently?
The biggest pitfall I see is you get no chance at a ASI/Feat boost for the 2 classes that stop at level 3. The one that stops at 7 you get one chance (you did put in a comment, but it seems to read as an afterthought, not as a analyzed point.
Are getting those other classes and not reaching 4 worth it? Many times the really good items are much higher in level. While dips into another class can be useful, I am not seeing that advantage vs adding feat or 2 to abilities.
Cleric 3 isn't giving you any healing spells you don't already have. 3 levels to get Scorching Ray seems like a waste - so many better things to do unless you really need to kill something right now at long range, plus you have to be at exactly 10 or 15 feet range for this to work. A druid with 1 attack is not going to benefit from CME, should probably be casting conjure Animals or Conjure Woodland Beings and strafing the battlefield. The attack enhancers work best for multi-attackers, either another class or a moon druid with a multi-attack wildshape. The "emanation" spells do well upcast and that's what a lot of clerics/druids use upcasts for, but it's nice to have those other higher level spells in your toolkit. This whole thing also takes an insane amount of time to come online.
Well the final build I am thinking is Druid 10, Cleric 5, Ranger 5 so by level 20 you do have 4 ASIs and one is an epic boon level.
The reason I am thinking 7, 3, 3 first is because custom lineage allows a hybrid feat at level 1, bumping wisdom to 18 and then DRUID 4 gets it to 20 if we just do att points. Once Wisdom is 20 we are pretty solid for attacks and spells.
The ASI would probably be:
Druid 4: +2 Wisdom
Druid 8: Resiliance CON +1 Con
Cleric 4: Spell Sniper
Ranger 4: Epic Boon (player’s choice)
We get Wisdom 20 at level 4 and postpone the other ASIs in order to get more class features
Heals - Check again. You get Prayer of Healing @2 and a bunch of other defensive spells like Sanctuary. At Cleric 5 you get Beacon of Hope, Mass Healing Word, and Remove Curse. But the key part of this is you get extra “prepares” so you can use your Cleric levels to take over some of the high usage things like healing word and then free up your druid prepares for higher level options.
Scorching Ray - My friend, it starts at 3 rays and adds a ray for each level upcast. CME adds 2d8 elemental but adds a 1d8 per level. Each ray adds the CME…. this is…. BUTTER…. do the math…. it gets ridonkulous
15 foot Range - Yes I agree that is a limitation. But melee is 5ft range.
Are you starting these Characters at Level 1 and working them up to 20? Or poof they are a high level to start with? I also think you are a bit off. The Ranger 4 will make you level 16. So too soon for an Epic Boon.
Instead of a 9th level Druid, you want a 1st level Cleric. As a Multiclass necessity, you need to think, if it is a worthwhile pain to endure? You are basically stalling for the next couple of levels. You are paying a lot of points and time into 1st level character.
The same can be said at 13th level.
Multiclass is less painful if you start with multiple levels already multiclassed. This is not to say don't multiclass but it is the negative of multiclass, that many proponents seem to conveniently not state.
Remember Multiclassing into another full caster still gives you the spell slot progression. Its not like multiclassing into a fighter or rogue. Cleric 1 gives heavy armor upgrade, and a ton of utility. It gives more prepared spells. Yes, postponing 5th level spells is a tradeoff. But we are getting some great low levels that upcast well. Doing this actually frees you up to prepare more high level spells while the lower cleric prepres the low level staples.
My ASI levels in that list are just labels for where they occur not when they occur. Ranger 4 would be at Character Level 19, and Ranger 5 would be the finale. This I am pretty sure of.
One could just go Druid 10, Cleric 5, Ranger 5. That would be very simple.
But I think its possibly better to go Druid 7, Cleric 3 for the core mechanic, and then go Druid to 8, Cleric to 4, Druid 9-10, Cleric to 5, Ranger 1-5.
One could always flip it and go Ranger 5, Cleric 5, Druid 10. But then spell casting is major delayed the entire game even if it ends up the same. I think its far better to start Druid.
I think the concept still needs some tweaks.
Some points:
1) you are mixing 2024 & 2014 rules which is highly DM dependent, Custom Lineage itself is a DM-fiat race and is banned at many tables.
2) CME has been Errata-ed so it scales by 1d8 every two levels now, the same as Spirit Shroud, this makes Druid entirely superfluous since Cleric gets Spirit Shroud.
3) CME triggers off of attacks only so Wrath of the Sea and Fireball do not trigger CME. CME is concentration, and requires melee so you need to take Reslient:Con + Warcaster to have any chance of keeping it up vs CR 20+ enemies.
4) Spending your highest level spell slot to match a Rogue for 1-2 rounds is a huge waste, since a Rogue can deal that damage all day long, if you want to do Rogue-level damage, play a Rogue.
5) Shillelagh + Booming Blade still leaves you behind most martial characters (especially in 2024) so if you want to do melee damage your much better off in a melee-focused class.
6) Heavy Armour requires STR 15+, so how are you able to use it with this character? Are you dumping DEX thus being a cripple until you MC into Cleric?
1) I did address this by suggesting Druid 8 first if not CL.
2) Interesting. My app says every level. Spirit shroud is every two levels. This build gets both and can easily compare them. It is not superfluous because they do different damage types and CME is superior as written because it has a range of 15 instead of 10. Clerics do not get concentration-less flight usually so that is pretty huge.
3) I will research this. Scorching Ray uses attack rolls.
4) I like rogues. That 35 sneak attack damage at level 20 is interesting. An Eldritch Knight peaks at 4th level and only adds 2d8 one use of CME per day. I am pretty sure this build hits harder than both and also gets more spells.
5) This is just what we do when we don’t want to use spells. For martials, its ALL they do.
6) True. Have you seen Planet of the Apes? LLLOOOLLL Maybe I will just go Thaumaturge and skip that aesthetic.
Scorching Ray attacks at 5 feet will be at disadvantage unless you invest in Spell Sniper. I suggest that using high level spell slots on it will deplete your spells quickly using it on single targets.
Cleric 3 to get Prayer of Healing is a high investment just to get a spell. That's losing 1 or 2 higher levels of Druid spells. Same for Cleric 5, that's 2 or 3 levels of Druid spells.
Certainly this can be fun because fun is what you want it to be. It doesn't seem optimal, though, becasue optimal is probably using those higher level spell slots for upcast Conjure Animals or damaging Emanations, or strong higher level Druid spells.
I think I do want Spell Sniper for this.
Well I would try to fire off scorching ray @10-15 feet away. This is just one of the combos. I agree there are some other great ones.
The build is pure druid for at least 7 levels. I might even justify going 10 levels first for all the reasons you mention.
All that being the case, I really do like the synergy of Druid 7, Cleric 3, Ranger 3, with custom lineage.
Its a Wisdom GISH.
Ranger 5 Druid 15 gets 8th Level Spells and a 9th Level spell slot. Ranger 3 Druid 17 or Cleric 3 Druid 17 gets the 9th level as well.
One could probably make the case to do some combo of Ranger 2, Cleric 1, Druid 17. Starting stats would be 15 STR, DEX 10, CON 14, INTELLIGENCE 8, WISDOM 15, CHA 8; with the extra points in WISDOM and whatever. This would get Heavy Armor, Cleric Level 1s, the Ranger unique spells, and a fighting style. You wouldn’t get any new subclass features. Alternatively you could do Druid 17 Fighter 3 and get the Eldritch Knight subclass. I think you’d have to order it Druid 15, Fighter 3, Druid 16-17 to get the epic boon.
I think the high level Druid Spells might be worth trading for other features. You can only cast one per day. Many have an expensive material component so there is a limit to their use in addition to the apell slot limitation. Archdruid got nerfed significantly from 2014 and is now skippable. Beast Form casting is essential for moon druids but not essential for other subclasses. Level 15 potent upgrade is nice, but there are other ways to add 1d8 weaopon damage and 300 range on a cantrip is cool but also only useful outdoors from the sky or a wide open field. 300 range is pointless indoors or underground, where almost all combat occurs in D&D. At level 15 I’m wanting to do anything but a cantrip in a combat round. And the ones I’d use most are the weapon types which largely are unaffected by it because they aren’t druid spells or ranged. But maybe there is a scenario where I am in a flying beast form and want to fire off a cantrip at something on the ground. Being that high up means I can’t support the party with any other spells or area effects. Its just not that useful.
So I think Druid 10 is absolutely necessary. Druid 15 is the highest I would go unless I was a Moon Druid - in which case I would probably do Druid 19 Something 1. Archdruid was nerfed and is now skippable
More Options:.
Druid 10, Cleric 5, Ranger 5 - Extra Attack, 9th level spell slot, expanded spell lists and preparations. 2 extra subclasses and features.
Druid 13, Cleric 5, Ranger 2 - 7th level druid spells, 9th level spell slot, expanded spell lists. One extra subclass features.
Druid 17, Ranger 2, Cleric 1 - Full druid spell list, expanded level 1 preps, fighting style.
Druid 17, Cleric 3 - Full druid spell list, cleric subclass features and cleric 1s and 2s spells and preps.
I’m really thinking Sea Druid for Wrath of the Sea, but might also do Star Druid. Wild Shape flight is essential to the build I think.
Light Cleric is the best blaster cleric, its not even debatable. Getting access to Scorching Ray and Fireball using wisdom stat is super duper nice.
I think Ranger 3 would be awesome with either Gloomstalker or Hunter. But you could also have fun with Beast Master. I think Hunter’s Hordebreaker is very desireable considering it can be combined with green flame blade and CME. But this class would only be added in mid or late game so its possible these things would be underwhelming at that time. Many epic monsters have blindsight and fight alone, not in hordes. And a horde is best handled with an AOE spell. I really do enjoy some of the Level 1 Ranger unique spells so maybe a 2 level dip is all that is requires.
Eldritch Knight - Considering that Fighter 1 gets con saves, multiclassing into Eldritch Knight might also be powerful with the right setup. 7 levels of fighter gets War Magic and 2nd level wiz spells. 6, extra asi. 5 extra attack. 4 asi. 3 subclass. 2 action surge. War magic could only be used with wizard spells if I recall. Again this would be useful with a weapon playstyle but less so for blasting. 7 levels of EK only gets a handful of spells and you have to be very intentional. This would get us access to booming blade and free up our magic initiate to take something else. But a one level dip in any arcane class could do that, so its really not that impactful.
Ranger vs Fighter - Ranger has a better spell slot progression and they use wisdom. Fighter spells use intelligence our dump stat so you could only pick certain spells. They both get extra attack at 5 but EK’s best feature is at level 7 while Ranger gets great features at Ranger 3. Fighters get con saves, heavy armor, and action surge. In my opinion Rangers are the better choice at each level of dip, until Level 6 or 7. The extra ASI and War Magic are what might make EK7 worth it at all. So the question is: how much spellpower do you want to trade for Warmagic?
These are my additional thoughts, and are all on the table.
I need help from experienced players who know mid and endgame play enough to prune this down a bit.
If you want to maintain 10-15 ft distance from enemies, you're going to want some kind of movement buff from feats, Mobile/Speedy might be a good choice. If you are pure druid form 7 levels as a gish, you do not want to be stuck with +0 Dexterity, you'd be much better off with 14 DEX and sticking with Medium armour + a shield.
Backgrounds: Boros Legionnaire from Guildmasters' Guide to Ravnica can give any caster access to scorching rays.
Sweet. 🤯
I don’t own that book. Does it work with 2024 rules?
Any background works with 2024, but keep in mind backgrounds like this are deliberately overtuned and intended to be used in specific campaigns, and lots of DMs won't let you take them outside that context.