Wow. It really seems like the subject is up for debate. The more I have thought about it, the more I think other eldritch invocations might be more worth it.
This is the list i came up with most generally:
Pact of the Blade
Agonizing Blast
Pact of the Chain
Familiar Friend
Thirsting Blade
Repelling Blast
Lifedrinker
Devouring Blade
Witch’s Sight
Visions of Distant Realms
It could vary a bit based on what spell list and feats I go with for my Vestige Patron Warlock, but I like having Familiar Friend open to add to the Battle Familiar spell even if I don’t take a feat related to it.
This ultimately meant replacing Eldritch Mind (forgoing the advantage on Con saves) and One with Shadows (just picking Invisibility manually.)
i guess the main question is where would I put Portal Jumper on this list and in place of what? I’m open to non-related suggestions also.
If you're going to Pact of the Chain, I recommend Gaze of Two Minds over Visions of Distant Realms.
Repelling Blast and Agonizing Blast are probably something you skip if you're taking Pact of the Blade or expect to be using your actions to let your familiar act with Pact of the Chain. Repelling/Agonizing really are their own specialist build (usually focused on dropping a damaging area of effect and knocking things into it. And then you really want Eldritch Mind.)
I'm not a huge fan of lifedrinker. Eldritch Smite is better imo if you're going Pact of the Blade.
Wow. It really seems like the subject is up for debate. The more I have thought about it, the more I think other eldritch invocations might be more worth it.
This is the list i came up with most generally:
Pact of the Blade
Agonizing Blast
Pact of the Chain
Familiar Friend
Thirsting Blade
Repelling Blast
Lifedrinker
Devouring Blade
Witch’s Sight
Visions of Distant Realms
It could vary a bit based on what spell list and feats I go with for my Vestige Patron Warlock, but I like having Familiar Friend open to add to the Battle Familiar spell even if I don’t take a feat related to it.
This ultimately meant replacing Eldritch Mind (forgoing the advantage on Con saves) and One with Shadows (just picking Invisibility manually.)
i guess the main question is where would I put Portal Jumper on this list and in place of what? I’m open to non-related suggestions also.
If you're going to Pact of the Chain, I recommend Gaze of Two Minds over Visions of Distant Realms.
Repelling Blast and Agonizing Blast are probably something you skip if you're taking Pact of the Blade or expect to be using your actions to let your familiar act with Pact of the Chain. Repelling/Agonizing really are their own specialist build (usually focused on dropping a damaging area of effect and knocking things into it. And then you really want Eldritch Mind.)
I'm not a huge fan of lifedrinker. Eldritch Smite is better imo if you're going Pact of the Blade.
Gaze of Two Minds makes sense since I have a familiar to do scouting anyway. I just couldn’t decide what to replace it with. I’ll get right on it!
i still might keep the blast ones depending on if I choose the light domain or not (wall of fire). If I do, that means I won’t be taking the feat that grants fireball since I get that already and will probably pick one of the familiar feats. Does that make sense?
As for lifedrinker… really? I’ve heard a lot of good things about it… and a lot of bad things about Eldritch Smite. I’ll keep it in mind though. Thanks!
Wow. It really seems like the subject is up for debate. The more I have thought about it, the more I think other eldritch invocations might be more worth it.
This is the list i came up with most generally:
Pact of the Blade
Agonizing Blast
Pact of the Chain
Familiar Friend
Thirsting Blade
Repelling Blast
Lifedrinker
Devouring Blade
Witch’s Sight
Visions of Distant Realms
It could vary a bit based on what spell list and feats I go with for my Vestige Patron Warlock, but I like having Familiar Friend open to add to the Battle Familiar spell even if I don’t take a feat related to it.
This ultimately meant replacing Eldritch Mind (forgoing the advantage on Con saves) and One with Shadows (just picking Invisibility manually.)
i guess the main question is where would I put Portal Jumper on this list and in place of what? I’m open to non-related suggestions also.
If you're going to Pact of the Chain, I recommend Gaze of Two Minds over Visions of Distant Realms.
Repelling Blast and Agonizing Blast are probably something you skip if you're taking Pact of the Blade or expect to be using your actions to let your familiar act with Pact of the Chain. Repelling/Agonizing really are their own specialist build (usually focused on dropping a damaging area of effect and knocking things into it. And then you really want Eldritch Mind.)
I'm not a huge fan of lifedrinker. Eldritch Smite is better imo if you're going Pact of the Blade.
Gaze of Two Minds makes sense since I have a familiar to do scouting anyway. I just couldn’t decide what to replace it with. I’ll get right on it!
i still might keep the blast ones depending on if I choose the light domain or not (wall of fire). If I do, that means I won’t be taking the feat that grants fireball since I get that already and will probably pick one of the familiar feats. Does that make sense?
As for lifedrinker… really? I’ve heard a lot of good things about it… and a lot of bad things about Eldritch Smite. I’ll keep it in mind though. Thanks!
I don't think either would be 'must take'.
Lifedrinker is level 9+, so we'll start our comparison there. The game assumes ~2 encounters per short rest, and an encounter lasts 2-4 rounds, with 3 being the most likely. So let's say 6 rounds of combat per short rest. You've got 2-3 spell slots most of your relevant Warlock career. We'll assume you can always get into melee.
Level 9: Lifedrinker is going to add 12d6 damage across those 6 rounds of combat. Each eldritch smite is going to add 6d8 damage, for a total of 12d8 per short rest. 12d8 > 12d6
Level 12: You get your third extra attack, so lifedrinker is now 18d6 across 6 rounds of combat. But you picked up a 3rd spell slot at level 11 (where Eldritch Smite really blows Lifedrinker away), so Eldritch Smite is now 18d8 per short rest.
But wait, you say, you burned all your spell slots, so you can't cast hex, so you lose that damage. Hex with a 5th level spell slot lasts 24h, so we can cast it when we wake up and immediately short rest.
But wait, you still burned all your spell slots, so you can't cast other things. But if you're casting in combat, you aren't attacking that round (with most spells - obviously you can use bonus action or reaction spells, and the eldritch smiter doesn't get to do those things). Yes, the Eldritch Smiter forgoes much of their spellcasting, but we're talking one spell per combat. (And if you are using hex, you aren't casting another concentration spell, which is where Warlocks get most of the value from their spellcasting from, so the Eldritch Smiter can still benefit from the 1 concentration spell by just maintaining Hex all day).
The other advantages of Eldritch Smite are that (1) it can be front-loaded. You deal that damage early rather than spread out. (2) It can be saved for crits, because you decide after you hit. (Obviously those two things are mutually exclusive, but it's good to have options). (3) You can choose which combats you need it in. You aren't wasting the extra damage from eldritch smites in an easy encounter. (4) Eldritch Smite makes the target prone, no save, and up to a huge target. That makes it easier to hit for the rest of your attacks and any melee allies who act before it stands up. (5) You lose damage from lifedrinker every time you miss. You never lose any Eldritch Smite damage, since it triggers on a hit. (Which is to say, you always get your 12d8 or 18d8 from Eldritch Smite per short rest. You may get less than 12d6 or 18d6 per short rest from lifedrinker).
I particularly value front-loading, as removing enemies quicker tilts the action economy towards the PCs.
And many tables are having just one encounter per short rest, so the eldritch smiter can unload and outdamage the lifedrinker.
(And yes, lifedrinker can heal, but... you need less healing if things are dead earlier, and lifedrinker doesn't increase your total healing ability since it still spends HD, just when you can use them, so needing less healing seems like an advantage to me in general).
If you're absolutely focused on Pact of the Blade, you can of course do both.
If you're going to Pact of the Chain, I recommend Gaze of Two Minds over Visions of Distant Realms.
Repelling Blast and Agonizing Blast are probably something you skip if you're taking Pact of the Blade or expect to be using your actions to let your familiar act with Pact of the Chain. Repelling/Agonizing really are their own specialist build (usually focused on dropping a damaging area of effect and knocking things into it. And then you really want Eldritch Mind.)
I'm not a huge fan of lifedrinker. Eldritch Smite is better imo if you're going Pact of the Blade.
Gaze of Two Minds makes sense since I have a familiar to do scouting anyway. I just couldn’t decide what to replace it with. I’ll get right on it!
i still might keep the blast ones depending on if I choose the light domain or not (wall of fire). If I do, that means I won’t be taking the feat that grants fireball since I get that already and will probably pick one of the familiar feats. Does that make sense?
As for lifedrinker… really? I’ve heard a lot of good things about it… and a lot of bad things about Eldritch Smite. I’ll keep it in mind though. Thanks!
I don't think either would be 'must take'.
Lifedrinker is level 9+, so we'll start our comparison there. The game assumes ~2 encounters per short rest, and an encounter lasts 2-4 rounds, with 3 being the most likely. So let's say 6 rounds of combat per short rest. You've got 2-3 spell slots most of your relevant Warlock career. We'll assume you can always get into melee.
Level 9: Lifedrinker is going to add 12d6 damage across those 6 rounds of combat. Each eldritch smite is going to add 6d8 damage, for a total of 12d8 per short rest. 12d8 > 12d6
Level 12: You get your third extra attack, so lifedrinker is now 18d6 across 6 rounds of combat. But you picked up a 3rd spell slot at level 11 (where Eldritch Smite really blows Lifedrinker away), so Eldritch Smite is now 18d8 per short rest.
But wait, you say, you burned all your spell slots, so you can't cast hex, so you lose that damage. Hex with a 5th level spell slot lasts 24h, so we can cast it when we wake up and immediately short rest.
But wait, you still burned all your spell slots, so you can't cast other things. But if you're casting in combat, you aren't attacking that round (with most spells - obviously you can use bonus action or reaction spells, and the eldritch smiter doesn't get to do those things). Yes, the Eldritch Smiter forgoes much of their spellcasting, but we're talking one spell per combat. (And if you are using hex, you aren't casting another concentration spell, which is where Warlocks get most of the value from their spellcasting from, so the Eldritch Smiter can still benefit from the 1 concentration spell by just maintaining Hex all day).
The other advantages of Eldritch Smite are that (1) it can be front-loaded. You deal that damage early rather than spread out. (2) It can be saved for crits, because you decide after you hit. (Obviously those two things are mutually exclusive, but it's good to have options). (3) You can choose which combats you need it in. You aren't wasting the extra damage from eldritch smites in an easy encounter. (4) Eldritch Smite makes the target prone, no save, and up to a huge target. That makes it easier to hit for the rest of your attacks and any melee allies who act before it stands up. (5) You lose damage from lifedrinker every time you miss. You never lose any Eldritch Smite damage, since it triggers on a hit. (Which is to say, you always get your 12d8 or 18d8 from Eldritch Smite per short rest. You may get less than 12d6 or 18d6 per short rest from lifedrinker).
I particularly value front-loading, as removing enemies quicker tilts the action economy towards the PCs.
And many tables are having just one encounter per short rest, so the eldritch smiter can unload and outdamage the lifedrinker.
(And yes, lifedrinker can heal, but... you need less healing if things are dead earlier, and lifedrinker doesn't increase your total healing ability since it still spends HD, just when you can use them, so needing less healing seems like an advantage to me in general).
If you're absolutely focused on Pact of the Blade, you can of course do both.