I put a lot more criticism in my post, but it's worth noting that they aren't doubling the modifier damage. It goes from 6 (prof from Hexblade) + 5 (STR), to 6 + 5 + 10 (GWM) on a crit. I'm not sure why they are only using GWM only on crits, but uh, whatever works?
Oh, I see it now. Yeah that is weird, you need to call it before rolling to hit, so you should just roll it every attack.
Very great build, I never considered the added attack form EK would be useful in such a build, but it turns out to be pretty useful. On that note, time to destroy your build. Sorry in advance.
1. 3 feats with only 2 ASIs from Wizard(8) as a Half Orc? Or does like, Fighter (3) somehow give you a ASI?
3. Because this is a highest possible damage build, shouldn't you be using GWM on all attacks? Not just crits?
4. Haste says "That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only)", which I believe overrides the special rules from Echo and GS that grant extra attacks. Echo could be arguable as says a additional attack, unlike GS which says it's a part of the attack. I'm not entirely sure about this one actually, I would probably have to ask some more experienced players.
5. You don't have enough sorcerer points to twinned spell (1) and quickened spell (2). Your one point off (1 + 2 = 3, you have 2).
6. Orcish Fury is once per short rest, not once on every attack. Oh you did only add it once, where is the 3d12 coming from then if you don't mind? Greataxe is 1d12 + Savage Fury I got, but not sure on the 3rd dice. I'm being silly, 1d12 (normal) + 1d12 (crit) + 1d12 (Savage Fury).
Okay now I kind of bad for shutting down this build that obviously has a lot of time and thought put into it, but it is what it is. Do tell me if I missed some or if some of these are wrong.
Edit, 6 again.
the 3rd feat (orcish fury) is a racial starting feat, and you're right about GWM, i wasn't paying attention and only applied it to crits. for the haste action, i thought specific rules overruled general. you are also right on the sorcery point calculations. thanks for the commentary.
Of course it is only works if the party can ambush. For initiative roll the character has advantage + wisdom +d8 superior if needed. I also count that hunters mark was casted before the ambush.
Once per long rest Dread Ambusher x Action surge + great weapon master attack from bonus action = 7 attack with advantage and all of them is crit. You have -5 on rolls but you have one +10 from pala divine channel and 3-4 superior dice and one reroll from piercer. 5 of your hits with divine smite. I count the 2 ambusher extra d8 with level 2 smite then 1 hit with lev 2 smite and 3 hit with level 1 smite and 1 hit with only hunters mark. (Used dice average but it will be higher thanks to great weapon fighting style) 1-2. - 4d12+2d6+6d8+17=71(x2) 3. - 4d12+2d6+4d8+17=63 4-6. - 4d12+2d6+2d8+17=55(x3) 7. - 4d12+2d6+17=47 Sum 417 and you can hit max 3 target (3-3-1) If you don't need to use your superiors for initiative or for attack you can add them to the dmg as well (433) Once per short rest you can do the same without hunters mark and divine smites.
Is there anything that ruins the math? And my other question is that what magic items suits for him other than +X Pike? (I'm quite noob in DnD)
You know what, I think the "STR 10" was supposed to be a 20. With +2 STR, +1 DEX, and the ranger ASI, that would check out. Giving yourself a head start over the standard array/point buy I used though.
Of course it is only works if the party can ambush. For initiative roll the character has advantage + wisdom +d8 superior if needed. I also count that hunters mark was casted before the ambush.
Yet another head start that can't be counted on depending on DM (spells before surprise).
Once per long rest Dread Ambusher x Action surge + great weapon master attack from bonus action = 7 attack with advantage and all of them is crit. You have -5 on rolls but you have one +10 from pala divine channel and 3-4 superior dice and one reroll from piercer. 5 of your hits with divine smite. I count the 2 ambusher extra d8 with level 2 smite then 1 hit with lev 2 smite and 3 hit with level 1 smite and 1 hit with only hunters mark. (Used dice average but it will be higher thanks to great weapon fighting style) 1-2. - 4d12+2d6+6d8+17=71(x2) 3. - 4d12+2d6+4d8+17=63 4-6. - 4d12+2d6+2d8+17=55(x3) 7. - 4d12+2d6+17=47 Sum 417 and you can hit max 3 target (3-3-1) If you don't need to use your superiors for initiative or for attack you can add them to the dmg as well (433) Once per short rest you can do the same without hunters mark and divine smites.
Is there anything that ruins the math? And my other question is that what magic items suits for him other than +X Pike? (I'm quite noob in DnD)
Ok numbers. Great weapon fighting style with... a 2d12 pike? I have no idea where the d12s are coming from. I'm going to sub a hazirawn for 4d6+2.
Extra attack + ambush = 3 attacks per action, action surge for 2 actions, 1 bonus action attack from great weapon master (guaranteed), 7 attacks total.
4 1d8 of superiority dice, 3 2d8 smites, 3 3d8 smites, 2 1d8 ambush attacks (1 per action), 2d6 sneak attack, 7 1d6 hunters mark (1 per hit), 7 +10 great weapon master damage (1 per hit), 7 +7 STR+magic bonus (1 per hit). Double all dice from assassinate and reroll 1s and 2s with great weapon master.
Total damage 8d6+17 (50.33) ×7 = 352.33 + 42d8 (220.5) + 9d6 (37.5) = 600.33 average. Even without the precombat bonus action, that is still 550 average. And 20 STR is still possible with standard array.
I think you messed up your crit math (if you did it at all), and let me know where those d12s were supposed to be from (but I think haziwran is better)
Thanks for the feedback. You are right it is 20 STR not 10.
Regarding pike dmg you are right it is only d10 but lets switch to lance and d12 problem is fixed. :)
Sneak attack is only working with finesse weapon so I did not include.
Of course it is situational and it is really depends on the DM. Also he is rubbish against swarm but the party has an aoe guy. What I did is that the character has 13 stealth and still remain unseen for basic darkvision.
I made the calculation again. 7x weapon dmg 4d12 - (lance, crit, half-orc feat, piercer feat) = 28d12 7x STR(5) + Great weapon master(10) = 35+70 = 105 7x hunters mark d6+d6 = 14d6 2x ranger extra d8+d8, 4x battelmaster superior d8+d8 = 12d8 3 level 2 divine smite (3x3d8)x2 = 18d8 3level 1 divine smite (3x2d8)x2 = 12d8 Total 28d12+ 42d8+ 14d6 + 105 = 182+189+49+105 = 525
I've just need to find some nice magic weapon for him.
Oh, I forgot piercer and orc savage attacks. Ok. 4d12 makes sense now (with lances). Sadly, the best magic lance you can get is just +3, but I'll check great weapon fighting with it anyway and see how it compares to Hazirawn.
4d12+18 with GWF is 47.33, compare to hazirawn's 8d6+17 of 50.55 (actually 9d6+17 (54.71) from savage attacks). +3 lance is easier to get though.
I've taken part in a couple of threads where we theory crafted what is probably the highest potential turn 1 damage build possible.
Rogue assassin 4/ fighter battle master 11/ ranger gloom stalker 5. Take the alert and sharpshooter feats and use the rest of your ASIs to max DEX and get WIS as high as possible (using half elf I was able to get +5 DEX and +4 WIS using standard array). Oathbow and bracers of archery required.
Use pass without trace to all but guarantee surprise (even if you have a paladin in the party), and you should have at least a +14 to initiative to all but guarantee going first. You should make 8 attacks with a +8 to hit (after the -5 for sharphooter) with advantage. Between hunter's mark, martial maneuvers, sneak attack, dread ambush, action surge, oathbow, bracers of archery, assassinate (auto-crit), and sharpshooter (and not counting any magical or poisoned ammo for even more damage), the last time I crunched the numbers the minimum damage was 234, maximum damage was 804, making the average 519 damage (again not using arrow of slaying or purple worm poison (injury) which could add as much as 48d10+96d6 (average 600) half on DC17/19 CON save×8).
Now attack action: mark target with oathbow (free), +8 with advantage (assassinate) to hit with sharpshooter, on hit: 2d8+8d6+17 (auto crit from assassinate) ×3 (extra attack), and an extra attack for 4d8+8d6+17 (dread ambush)
Now action surge and do all of step 3 again.
Throughout, you have 1 4d6 sneak attack and 5 2d10 maneuvers you can use (save maneuvers until the end and use precision shot to make sure as many attacks land as possible).
That all adds up to 10d10+20d8+68d6+136 for the range and average I provided previously (234-804, ~519). And all with regular arrows. Poisoned slayer arrows add another 600 average damage for an average of 1119.
Oh hey, random check but since Tasha's came out with the Piercer feat, could you make this build's damage go higher or?
I've taken part in a couple of threads where we theory crafted what is probably the highest potential turn 1 damage build possible.
Rogue assassin 4/ fighter battle master 11/ ranger gloom stalker 5. Take the alert and sharpshooter feats and use the rest of your ASIs to max DEX and get WIS as high as possible (using half elf I was able to get +5 DEX and +4 WIS using standard array). Oathbow and bracers of archery required.
Use pass without trace to all but guarantee surprise (even if you have a paladin in the party), and you should have at least a +14 to initiative to all but guarantee going first. You should make 8 attacks with a +8 to hit (after the -5 for sharphooter) with advantage. Between hunter's mark, martial maneuvers, sneak attack, dread ambush, action surge, oathbow, bracers of archery, assassinate (auto-crit), and sharpshooter (and not counting any magical or poisoned ammo for even more damage), the last time I crunched the numbers the minimum damage was 234, maximum damage was 804, making the average 519 damage (again not using arrow of slaying or purple worm poison (injury) which could add as much as 48d10+96d6 (average 600) half on DC17/19 CON save×8).
Now attack action: mark target with oathbow (free), +8 with advantage (assassinate) to hit with sharpshooter, on hit: 2d8+8d6+17 (auto crit from assassinate) ×3 (extra attack), and an extra attack for 4d8+8d6+17 (dread ambush)
Now action surge and do all of step 3 again.
Throughout, you have 1 4d6 sneak attack and 5 2d10 maneuvers you can use (save maneuvers until the end and use precision shot to make sure as many attacks land as possible).
That all adds up to 10d10+20d8+68d6+136 for the range and average I provided previously (234-804, ~519). And all with regular arrows. Poisoned slayer arrows add another 600 average damage for an average of 1119.
Oh hey, random check but since Tasha's came out with the Piercer feat, could you make this build's damage go higher or?
Edit: fixed the quote
Not sure. It would only be another 6d6 (21) damage.
Well the thing is, it deals triple base damage, so it would multiply dice by 6 on a crit instead of 2 or 3
I meant you lose the auto crits if you lose surprise by becoming giant. I know they would multiply together if you can get both.
True, that would be harder to hide, but you're using pass without trace so you have the benefit of being hidden magically
Pass without trace does not magically hide you, it only makes it easier to hide. A +10 to stealth doesn't help if the DM decides you are too big to successfully hide.
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Oh, I see it now. Yeah that is weird, you need to call it before rolling to hit, so you should just roll it every attack.
the 3rd feat (orcish fury) is a racial starting feat, and you're right about GWM, i wasn't paying attention and only applied it to crits. for the haste action, i thought specific rules overruled general. you are also right on the sorcery point calculations. thanks for the commentary.
You are right, but the Haste spell is the most specific rule for the Haste action.
Hi I like to share my build for a double check.
We use this array (17,15,13,12,10,8).
Level 16 Half-orc with a basic pike
STR 10, DEX 16, CON 10, INT 8, WIS 13, CHA 13
5 level ranger - gloom stalker - (level 4 +1 STR, +1 CHR)
3 level rouge - assassin
4 level fighter - battlemaster (ambush, precision attack, trip attack) - (lev 4 feat - great weapon master)
4 level paladin - conquest - (lev 4 feat - piercer)
Spell caster level: 4 ( level 1 4x, level 2 3x)
Of course it is only works if the party can ambush. For initiative roll the character has advantage + wisdom +d8 superior if needed.
I also count that hunters mark was casted before the ambush.
Once per long rest
Dread Ambusher x Action surge + great weapon master attack from bonus action = 7 attack with advantage and all of them is crit.
You have -5 on rolls but you have one +10 from pala divine channel and 3-4 superior dice and one reroll from piercer. 5 of your hits with divine smite. I count the 2 ambusher extra d8 with level 2 smite then 1 hit with lev 2 smite and 3 hit with level 1 smite and 1 hit with only hunters mark. (Used dice average but it will be higher thanks to great weapon fighting style)
1-2. - 4d12+2d6+6d8+17=71(x2)
3. - 4d12+2d6+4d8+17=63
4-6. - 4d12+2d6+2d8+17=55(x3)
7. - 4d12+2d6+17=47
Sum 417 and you can hit max 3 target (3-3-1) If you don't need to use your superiors for initiative or for attack you can add them to the dmg as well (433)
Once per short rest you can do the same without hunters mark and divine smites.
Is there anything that ruins the math?
And my other question is that what magic items suits for him other than +X Pike? (I'm quite noob in DnD)
I don't know what this array has to do with anything. You can't even get the stat you used with it... ?
You know what, I think the "STR 10" was supposed to be a 20. With +2 STR, +1 DEX, and the ranger ASI, that would check out. Giving yourself a head start over the standard array/point buy I used though.
Yet another head start that can't be counted on depending on DM (spells before surprise).
Ok numbers. Great weapon fighting style with... a 2d12 pike? I have no idea where the d12s are coming from. I'm going to sub a hazirawn for 4d6+2.
Extra attack + ambush = 3 attacks per action, action surge for 2 actions, 1 bonus action attack from great weapon master (guaranteed), 7 attacks total.
4 1d8 of superiority dice, 3 2d8 smites, 3 3d8 smites, 2 1d8 ambush attacks (1 per action), 2d6 sneak attack, 7 1d6 hunters mark (1 per hit), 7 +10 great weapon master damage (1 per hit), 7 +7 STR+magic bonus (1 per hit). Double all dice from assassinate and reroll 1s and 2s with great weapon master.
Total damage 8d6+17 (50.33) ×7 = 352.33 + 42d8 (220.5) + 9d6 (37.5) = 600.33 average. Even without the precombat bonus action, that is still 550 average. And 20 STR is still possible with standard array.
I think you messed up your crit math (if you did it at all), and let me know where those d12s were supposed to be from (but I think haziwran is better)
Hi,
Thanks for the feedback. You are right it is 20 STR not 10.
Regarding pike dmg you are right it is only d10 but lets switch to lance and d12 problem is fixed. :)
Sneak attack is only working with finesse weapon so I did not include.
Of course it is situational and it is really depends on the DM. Also he is rubbish against swarm but the party has an aoe guy. What I did is that the character has 13 stealth and still remain unseen for basic darkvision.
I made the calculation again.
7x weapon dmg 4d12 - (lance, crit, half-orc feat, piercer feat) = 28d12
7x STR(5) + Great weapon master(10) = 35+70 = 105
7x hunters mark d6+d6 = 14d6
2x ranger extra d8+d8, 4x battelmaster superior d8+d8 = 12d8
3 level 2 divine smite (3x3d8)x2 = 18d8
3 level 1 divine smite (3x2d8)x2 = 12d8
Total 28d12+ 42d8+ 14d6 + 105 = 182+189+49+105 = 525
I've just need to find some nice magic weapon for him.
Oh, I forgot piercer and orc savage attacks. Ok. 4d12 makes sense now (with lances). Sadly, the best magic lance you can get is just +3, but I'll check great weapon fighting with it anyway and see how it compares to Hazirawn.
4d12+18 with GWF is 47.33, compare to hazirawn's 8d6+17 of 50.55 (actually 9d6+17 (54.71) from savage attacks). +3 lance is easier to get though.
Oh hey, random check but since Tasha's came out with the Piercer feat, could you make this build's damage go higher or?
Edit: fixed the quote
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Not sure. It would only be another 6d6 (21) damage.
DxJxC: Nice build. That is all. :D
You’re forgetting the single most broken magic item: the Potion of Giant Size
You’re forgetting the single most broken magic item: the Potion of Giant Size
Fair point... but does it effect the extra spell dmg. from tenser's transformation or something?
Anything part of the weapon damage would count, so if Tenser's Transformation would count for a critical then it would triple.
But for the build a little bit above with the oathbow and such, it would triple all of that :P
Oathbow+Arrow of Slaying deals 6d10+1d8+3d6, on a crit it would do 12d10+2d8+6d6, but potion of giant size sizes that down at 36d10+6d8+18d6 damage.
Drink a Potion of Giant size as step 0 and suddenly it becomes 30d10+60d8+204d6+136 damage.
Add in the arrow of slaying, and that adds an extra 36d10, making it 66d10+60d8+204d6+136 damage.
If I'm correct, without poison that's an average of 363+270+714+136, for a total of 1,483. With your average poison that would be the incredible 2,083
Be kind of hard to get surprise if you are huge, but would probably be worth it. It will still multiply dice by 3 instead of 2 from crit.
Well the thing is, it deals triple base damage, so it would multiply dice by 6 on a crit instead of 2 or 3
I meant you lose the auto crits if you lose surprise by becoming giant. I know they would multiply together if you can get both.
True, that would be harder to hide, but you're using pass without trace so you have the benefit of being hidden magically
Pass without trace does not magically hide you, it only makes it easier to hide. A +10 to stealth doesn't help if the DM decides you are too big to successfully hide.