Oh man I was so jazzed when I saw this notification. You TEASE. 😘 Have a great sesh Yurei.
I feel you. That's what I feel like every time I get a new notification from this thread.
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All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Jacky demonstrates a second time that artificers are capable of ludicrous levels of durability, especially at maximum level. Monstrous armor class, near-maximum Constitution, and stupid-high saving throws are the gifts of Soul of Artifice (and attendant infusions), and they work here as well as they did on Atlas. Warding Bond is a nice addition to the build, but also potentially a weakness with a DM who sticks strictly to RAW – Warding Bond technically deals extra damage over and above the attack, something that ignores WB’s resistance benefits is basically Super Critting. It’s not something any DM who’s allowed to be a DM is likely to enforce, but it’s a potential weakness to be aware of.
Anyways. Jacky isn’t quite as grim and intense as the robot. A tale of a gullible little boy trying to live up to the storybooks – even the less-than-helpful storybooks – is a nice twist, and you don’t tend to see enough mounted combatants in D&D. The mount alleviates some of the character’s mobility issues, which is often (but not always) a weakness of ‘Juggernaut’ characters. Mounts can use Dodge, which helps the Mounted Combatant Evasion effect, and there’s a cool trick* Jacky can do here I’m not sure Sutlo is entirely aware of. The earnest silliness and small stature do dent the whole Juggernaut unstoppable-menace aesthetic slightly, but not enough to hurt the build. It’s easy to see how the moderating effect of a party around him to whack him away from his Batman phase could make Little Jacky Oaths a standout inclusion at any table.
*If Jacky uses Disengage but Wolfgang uses Dodge, then when Wolfgang moves away from a target it cannot attack Jacky with an AoO. It CAN attack Wolfgang, however – but if it does the attack shifts to Jacky and Wolfgang can Deflect Attack it, dealing damage if Jacky is high enough level and provoking Jacky’s Sentinel reaction. Even if Jacky doesn’t move the attack, it’s made at disadvantage against Wolfgang, and it allows Jacky/Wolfgang to move away from enemies more safely without sacrificing a turn’s offense. Weaving Arcane Jolts into this whole mess makes Jacky harder to take down, which is an extra bonus.
Thirus, Master of Agony
A curious take on the Terminator ideal. Dodge tanking/evasive styles aren’t Juggernautish, but Thirus here could be refluffed fairly easily as simply not feeling most of the pain enemies inflict on him. Still. I almost would’ve tried to run this as a low*-Dex rogue, using heavy armor and Strength to mix into the fray. Sneak Attack doesn’t actually need to use Dexterity – the rapier can use Strength and still SneakaCrit, and neither Evasion nor Uncanny Dodge have any requirements for the character to be unencumbered. As it stands, I do have to ding Thirus for playing primarily as a stealth build. Not because it’s a bad idea, but because it’s not how Juggernauts work.
I do like the fighter start pivoting into Phantom rogue. I love the Phantom rogue, and this is a neat way to solidly justify the multiclass. Thirus’ story is pretty malevolent, a tale of torture coming home to roost in a most unpleasant way. Cruelty begets cruelty, and those who live by the sword tend to die by it. While he prefers to fight more subtly, he can stand in the crunch of melee combat, which means he still qualifies. Not a bad start to Throwdowning at all, Thauraeln
Inoshishi, the Demon of Rinkoku
It physically wounds me that you cut the tail off this poor tiffle Q_Q. It wounds me, Heironymous.
Anyways. Twenty levels of fighter is a solid, straightforward path to adequate juggernautism. Samurai is one of my favorite fighter subclasses despite its alleged simplicity, and it’s cool to see someone actually lean into it. Inoshishi collects a nice bevy of saves and manages to weave demon magic into a very cool aesthetic for his combat style. The whole Darkness/(see-through-Darkness) Sight thing is usually tired and played out, but in this specific instance it strikes me as simply another way the Demon of Rinkoku spreads his fearsome legend. Strength Before Death is about as Juggernaut as it gets, to boot.
Inoshishi has splendid energy resistances, but otherwise mostly relies on sheer bullheaded stubborn and moderate-ish THP to get through damage – good but not exceptional. He does get a lot more damage than many Juggernaut entries though, and between those energy resistances, Indomitable, and good saves, he’s a tough cookie for a lot of mages. I’d almost say this is a build that would benefit a great deal (thematically, at least) from Mage Slayer, if Mage Slayer wasn’t such an unfortunately garbage feat. An excellent tale, if an extremely unfortunate tail. Poor, poor tiffle...
Votes:
Jacky: 2 Inoshishi: 2 Thirus: 1
Jacky follows the theme of the contest most closely and is easily the most durable build, by a significant margin. He does so mostly by recognizing that having magic items in a contest that otherwise restricts them and getting +5 to all saves at level 20 is stupid good, which is the only reason I won the first Terminator contest. Errybuddy was sleeping on artificer until then. Hueh.
Inoshishi gets the second nod for executing well on the theme of a Heavy Samurai, being a big imposing oni-headed muhfugger with a giant club putting the Terminate in Terminator. Fighter 20 with defensive-minded feats is as solid a way to be difficult to kill as any other, especially with all those resistances.
Thirus only gets one point primarily because I feel like more could’ve been done to make him an unstoppable brute instead of a malignant shadow. Malignant shadows are cool, and Thirus is certainly difficult to end, but the dex-focused dodgy rogue doesn’t quite hold up in a contest of Juggernatorism. Good build, not quite the contest for it.
Apologies for the lateness folks. Being pivoted to heavy warehouse work without any warning when you’ve spent the last seven years as a desk jockey is something of a system shock x_x. Only one week left of that shit to go, thank God, but it did mean a lot of sore nights in the bathtub not posting contest votes. I shall endeavor to do better next time.
Dont'cha worry about it Yurei. Tis only a forum contest. Hopefully that shite passes quickly. All I can say is epsom salts are your friend if you haven't been using them already.
I really appreciate the kind words about Inoshishi. I'm sorry to have caused pain with the tiffle mutilation 😥. I promise no more mutilated tiffle entries.
I too have a big soft spot for the Samurai (and not just because I'm fascinated by the history, culture and pop-culture surrounding them) and I agree people don't give it enough credit. The thought process seems to generally stop at "I only get my ability 3/day" which I find to be quite reductive. Sometimes having a less diverse and more direct skill set is exactly what I want and Samurai gives me just enough knobs to twiddle with to still feel all clever inside.
I was a little worried I'd get flack for the darkness shtick, but I just couldn't get over how perfect it felt for his character. I imagine it like the blackout scene in Beatrix's fight against the Crazy 88 in Kill Bill 1, only instead of gracefully slashing enemies to death, Inoshishi is causing utter panic in the darkness as steel, armor and bones splinter under his kanabo. The sound alone would be terrifying. It felt too ONI to pass up. I'm super happy that seems to have translated.
Absolutely I could have built a more mechanically satisfying juggernaut (the THP shtick is quite clearly flawed and scales poorly). But meh. I'm willing to lose points to enter the builds that excite me enough to write about. Mage Slayer was certainly on my radar, but as you say it's less-than-good and I had already sacrificed plenty of mechanical strength to my thematic choices. Tier 3 felt a little too anemic to not add Lucky to continue bolstering the saving throw game I was trying to build. The optimizer piece of my brain can only handle so much when approaching a contest like this, ya'know?
Samurai fighters are a better execution on the idea of a 'simple' fighter than the godawful Champion. Fighters in general are reasonably tough cookies and you can definitely lean into that with the right stat/feat allocations (which you did), but you're not gonna hold up in a Juggerdown with the likes of barbarians or (correctly twinked) artificers. Still, it is a cool visual and aesthetic, and offensive presence is as necessary a part of the true Way of Jugglenutz as is defensive fortitude - if you're unkillable but also no kind of real threat, then you're not a Juggernaut, you're a rock with feet. It was a notable issue in the first Juggernaut contest; a few builds sacrificed all their offensive pressure for better defense, and they consequently just didn't feel right.
Definitely have had cause to be glad I keep a bag of epsom salt basically all the time. It's one of those things I legit think everybody should have, so long as they have a tub to use it in. Mad sympathy for people with shower-only apartments or the like T_T
I promise never again Yurei. I promise. I love tails too. It's why I couldn't just throw it away and had it come back as a prized possesion worn in battle. Will you ever forgive me?!?!
Aesthetic was behind so many of my decisions. I needed to build an army crushing, Oni inspired Samurai because the visuals in my head just can't quit when it comes to utter badassery. I gave up on trying to compete with artificers (my goodness are they beastly in the context of these competitions) or any of the more established juggernaut classes immediately. I was toying around with several other builds, all generally superior mechanically, but in the end I just couldn't stop obsessing over the Samurai.
When I studied abroad my apartment only had a shower with about five minutes of hot water. It was...not fun. Really opened my eyes to what a luxury I had been enjoying all of my life.
Sutlo, I forgot to respond before, but in the words of the legendary Bob Ross, that's what is affectionately known as a "happy accident". Nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, I think the best art comes out of a near complete lack of intention. I love the progression from your crossbow assassin to Little Jackie Oaths and can't wait to see what else you produce.
Thauraeln, I know you said you were nervous to join, but I think Thirus was an awesome entry. If it had been a differently themed competition I believe Thirus would have scored even better. I sure hope you keep doing these because I loved what I saw.
Thauraeln, I know you said you were nervous to join, but I think Thirus was an awesome entry. If it had been a differently themed competition I believe Thirus would have scored even better. I sure hope you keep doing these because I loved what I saw.
Thank you!
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All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
I'm glad you liked Jacky Yurei :D I know the whole "little boy" flavor doesn't really lend to the "Juggernatorism" of the build, but I wanted the mounted combatant so not much I could do, but take a small race. I'm not sure I really get how all the reactions work with mounted combatant (does the target changing make it so you can only use the reactions that would trigger when Jacky would be the target in the first place? or do I get to "reaction because you attacked Wolfgang and then replace the target?)
Also Zot: If you didn't know, the Assassin wasn't my first build in the throwdowns, I had a contestant in the "Archmage" and one in the "Christmas" themed, too. I didn't get any points with Change however and Santa came second against Yurei.
Also Zot: If you didn't know, the Assassin wasn't my first build in the throwdowns, I had a contestant in the "Archmage" and one in the "Christmas" themed, too. I didn't get any points with Change however and Santa came second against Yurei.
Ya'know, I've looked back at some of the older contests but I haven't gotten to those. I'm sorry if I came off patronizing at all. Really not my intention. Can't wait to see what else you present because I like your style.
Don't worry about it. ;) Wasn't recieved patronizing in any way, just a little advertisement for builds I did. I will probably play Change(Changeling Archfey Warlock/Aberant Mind Sorcerer) in a upcomming campaign once the lockdown in Germany is over and it's save to meet with friends in person again. I can't wait! :D
We kind of need more votes right? As far as I counted we have a tie as of now. Come on people, vote!
Don't worry about it. ;) Wasn't recieved patronizing in any way, just a little advertisement for builds I did. I will probably play Change(Changeling Archfey Warlock/Aberant Mind Sorcerer) in a upcomming campaign once the lockdown in Germany is over and it's save to meet with friends in person again. I can't wait! :D
We kind of need more votes right? As far as I counted we have a tie as of now. Come on people, vote!
It's a well-deserved tie (all of your builds were amazing), but we do need at least one other person to vote.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Btw, does anybody know about DorkForge? Is there a timeframe for his return? Should we start with new Themes again or will we rehash all the themes we had before?
Hm. A thread elsewhere made me ponder an idea for a throwdown (which, tbh, some terminator type builds would work well for):
The BBEG: build a character who would be a satisfying BBEG for a lower level party (how much lower? That depends on the build...). Note that the goal here isn't (just) a mastermind, nor it a character that can beat a party, it's a boss fight that players would find fun.
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Oh man I was so jazzed when I saw this notification. You TEASE. 😘 Have a great sesh Yurei.
I feel you. That's what I feel like every time I get a new notification from this thread.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
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Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
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If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Little Jacky Oaths – The Iron Rider
Jacky demonstrates a second time that artificers are capable of ludicrous levels of durability, especially at maximum level. Monstrous armor class, near-maximum Constitution, and stupid-high saving throws are the gifts of Soul of Artifice (and attendant infusions), and they work here as well as they did on Atlas. Warding Bond is a nice addition to the build, but also potentially a weakness with a DM who sticks strictly to RAW – Warding Bond technically deals extra damage over and above the attack, something that ignores WB’s resistance benefits is basically Super Critting. It’s not something any DM who’s allowed to be a DM is likely to enforce, but it’s a potential weakness to be aware of.
Anyways. Jacky isn’t quite as grim and intense as the robot. A tale of a gullible little boy trying to live up to the storybooks – even the less-than-helpful storybooks – is a nice twist, and you don’t tend to see enough mounted combatants in D&D. The mount alleviates some of the character’s mobility issues, which is often (but not always) a weakness of ‘Juggernaut’ characters. Mounts can use Dodge, which helps the Mounted Combatant Evasion effect, and there’s a cool trick* Jacky can do here I’m not sure Sutlo is entirely aware of. The earnest silliness and small stature do dent the whole Juggernaut unstoppable-menace aesthetic slightly, but not enough to hurt the build. It’s easy to see how the moderating effect of a party around him to whack him away from his Batman phase could make Little Jacky Oaths a standout inclusion at any table.
*If Jacky uses Disengage but Wolfgang uses Dodge, then when Wolfgang moves away from a target it cannot attack Jacky with an AoO. It CAN attack Wolfgang, however – but if it does the attack shifts to Jacky and Wolfgang can Deflect Attack it, dealing damage if Jacky is high enough level and provoking Jacky’s Sentinel reaction. Even if Jacky doesn’t move the attack, it’s made at disadvantage against Wolfgang, and it allows Jacky/Wolfgang to move away from enemies more safely without sacrificing a turn’s offense. Weaving Arcane Jolts into this whole mess makes Jacky harder to take down, which is an extra bonus.
Thirus, Master of Agony
A curious take on the Terminator ideal. Dodge tanking/evasive styles aren’t Juggernautish, but Thirus here could be refluffed fairly easily as simply not feeling most of the pain enemies inflict on him. Still. I almost would’ve tried to run this as a low*-Dex rogue, using heavy armor and Strength to mix into the fray. Sneak Attack doesn’t actually need to use Dexterity – the rapier can use Strength and still SneakaCrit, and neither Evasion nor Uncanny Dodge have any requirements for the character to be unencumbered. As it stands, I do have to ding Thirus for playing primarily as a stealth build. Not because it’s a bad idea, but because it’s not how Juggernauts work.
I do like the fighter start pivoting into Phantom rogue. I love the Phantom rogue, and this is a neat way to solidly justify the multiclass. Thirus’ story is pretty malevolent, a tale of torture coming home to roost in a most unpleasant way. Cruelty begets cruelty, and those who live by the sword tend to die by it. While he prefers to fight more subtly, he can stand in the crunch of melee combat, which means he still qualifies. Not a bad start to Throwdowning at all, Thauraeln
Inoshishi, the Demon of Rinkoku
It physically wounds me that you cut the tail off this poor tiffle Q_Q. It wounds me, Heironymous.
Anyways. Twenty levels of fighter is a solid, straightforward path to adequate juggernautism. Samurai is one of my favorite fighter subclasses despite its alleged simplicity, and it’s cool to see someone actually lean into it. Inoshishi collects a nice bevy of saves and manages to weave demon magic into a very cool aesthetic for his combat style. The whole Darkness/(see-through-Darkness) Sight thing is usually tired and played out, but in this specific instance it strikes me as simply another way the Demon of Rinkoku spreads his fearsome legend. Strength Before Death is about as Juggernaut as it gets, to boot.
Inoshishi has splendid energy resistances, but otherwise mostly relies on sheer bullheaded stubborn and moderate-ish THP to get through damage – good but not exceptional. He does get a lot more damage than many Juggernaut entries though, and between those energy resistances, Indomitable, and good saves, he’s a tough cookie for a lot of mages. I’d almost say this is a build that would benefit a great deal (thematically, at least) from Mage Slayer, if Mage Slayer wasn’t such an unfortunately garbage feat. An excellent tale, if an extremely unfortunate tail. Poor, poor tiffle...
Votes:
Jacky: 2
Inoshishi: 2
Thirus: 1
Jacky follows the theme of the contest most closely and is easily the most durable build, by a significant margin. He does so mostly by recognizing that having magic items in a contest that otherwise restricts them and getting +5 to all saves at level 20 is stupid good, which is the only reason I won the first Terminator contest. Errybuddy was sleeping on artificer until then. Hueh.
Inoshishi gets the second nod for executing well on the theme of a Heavy Samurai, being a big imposing oni-headed muhfugger with a giant club putting the Terminate in Terminator. Fighter 20 with defensive-minded feats is as solid a way to be difficult to kill as any other, especially with all those resistances.
Thirus only gets one point primarily because I feel like more could’ve been done to make him an unstoppable brute instead of a malignant shadow. Malignant shadows are cool, and Thirus is certainly difficult to end, but the dex-focused dodgy rogue doesn’t quite hold up in a contest of Juggernatorism. Good build, not quite the contest for it.
Apologies for the lateness folks. Being pivoted to heavy warehouse work without any warning when you’ve spent the last seven years as a desk jockey is something of a system shock x_x. Only one week left of that shit to go, thank God, but it did mean a lot of sore nights in the bathtub not posting contest votes. I shall endeavor to do better next time.
Please do not contact or message me.
Dont'cha worry about it Yurei. Tis only a forum contest. Hopefully that shite passes quickly. All I can say is epsom salts are your friend if you haven't been using them already.
I really appreciate the kind words about Inoshishi. I'm sorry to have caused pain with the tiffle mutilation 😥. I promise no more mutilated tiffle entries.
I too have a big soft spot for the Samurai (and not just because I'm fascinated by the history, culture and pop-culture surrounding them) and I agree people don't give it enough credit. The thought process seems to generally stop at "I only get my ability 3/day" which I find to be quite reductive. Sometimes having a less diverse and more direct skill set is exactly what I want and Samurai gives me just enough knobs to twiddle with to still feel all clever inside.
I was a little worried I'd get flack for the darkness shtick, but I just couldn't get over how perfect it felt for his character. I imagine it like the blackout scene in Beatrix's fight against the Crazy 88 in Kill Bill 1, only instead of gracefully slashing enemies to death, Inoshishi is causing utter panic in the darkness as steel, armor and bones splinter under his kanabo. The sound alone would be terrifying. It felt too ONI to pass up. I'm super happy that seems to have translated.
Absolutely I could have built a more mechanically satisfying juggernaut (the THP shtick is quite clearly flawed and scales poorly). But meh. I'm willing to lose points to enter the builds that excite me enough to write about. Mage Slayer was certainly on my radar, but as you say it's less-than-good and I had already sacrificed plenty of mechanical strength to my thematic choices. Tier 3 felt a little too anemic to not add Lucky to continue bolstering the saving throw game I was trying to build. The optimizer piece of my brain can only handle so much when approaching a contest like this, ya'know?
Also:
This made me very happy.
I just really like tails on my tiffles. And on anything else with tails, really.
Samurai fighters are a better execution on the idea of a 'simple' fighter than the godawful Champion. Fighters in general are reasonably tough cookies and you can definitely lean into that with the right stat/feat allocations (which you did), but you're not gonna hold up in a Juggerdown with the likes of barbarians or (correctly twinked) artificers. Still, it is a cool visual and aesthetic, and offensive presence is as necessary a part of the true Way of Jugglenutz as is defensive fortitude - if you're unkillable but also no kind of real threat, then you're not a Juggernaut, you're a rock with feet. It was a notable issue in the first Juggernaut contest; a few builds sacrificed all their offensive pressure for better defense, and they consequently just didn't feel right.
Definitely have had cause to be glad I keep a bag of epsom salt basically all the time. It's one of those things I legit think everybody should have, so long as they have a tub to use it in. Mad sympathy for people with shower-only apartments or the like T_T
Please do not contact or message me.
Oh no I really hit a sore spot didn't I? ಥ_ಥ
I promise never again Yurei. I promise. I love tails too. It's why I couldn't just throw it away and had it come back as a prized possesion worn in battle. Will you ever forgive me?!?!
Aesthetic was behind so many of my decisions. I needed to build an army crushing, Oni inspired Samurai because the visuals in my head just can't quit when it comes to utter badassery. I gave up on trying to compete with artificers (my goodness are they beastly in the context of these competitions) or any of the more established juggernaut classes immediately. I was toying around with several other builds, all generally superior mechanically, but in the end I just couldn't stop obsessing over the Samurai.
When I studied abroad my apartment only had a shower with about five minutes of hot water. It was...not fun. Really opened my eyes to what a luxury I had been enjoying all of my life.
Sutlo, I forgot to respond before, but in the words of the legendary Bob Ross, that's what is affectionately known as a "happy accident". Nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, I think the best art comes out of a near complete lack of intention. I love the progression from your crossbow assassin to Little Jackie Oaths and can't wait to see what else you produce.
Thauraeln, I know you said you were nervous to join, but I think Thirus was an awesome entry. If it had been a differently themed competition I believe Thirus would have scored even better. I sure hope you keep doing these because I loved what I saw.
Thank you!
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
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Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
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If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
I'm glad you liked Jacky Yurei :D I know the whole "little boy" flavor doesn't really lend to the "Juggernatorism" of the build, but I wanted the mounted combatant so not much I could do, but take a small race. I'm not sure I really get how all the reactions work with mounted combatant (does the target changing make it so you can only use the reactions that would trigger when Jacky would be the target in the first place? or do I get to "reaction because you attacked Wolfgang and then replace the target?)
Also Zot: If you didn't know, the Assassin wasn't my first build in the throwdowns, I had a contestant in the "Archmage" and one in the "Christmas" themed, too. I didn't get any points with Change however and Santa came second against Yurei.
Ya'know, I've looked back at some of the older contests but I haven't gotten to those. I'm sorry if I came off patronizing at all. Really not my intention. Can't wait to see what else you present because I like your style.
@Thauraeln: You're welcome! ^_^
Don't worry about it. ;) Wasn't recieved patronizing in any way, just a little advertisement for builds I did. I will probably play Change(Changeling Archfey Warlock/Aberant Mind Sorcerer) in a upcomming campaign once the lockdown in Germany is over and it's save to meet with friends in person again. I can't wait! :D
We kind of need more votes right? As far as I counted we have a tie as of now. Come on people, vote!
It's a well-deserved tie (all of your builds were amazing), but we do need at least one other person to vote.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
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Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
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If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Btw, does anybody know about DorkForge? Is there a timeframe for his return? Should we start with new Themes again or will we rehash all the themes we had before?
Sorry for the double post - should we start another one? Zot want to share the viktory? :)
I'd be honored to Sutlo ^_^
By the way, took a look at Change and that character looks super awesome. Hope you get to play it cause that sure does look like fun.
Hm. A thread elsewhere made me ponder an idea for a throwdown (which, tbh, some terminator type builds would work well for):
The BBEG: build a character who would be a satisfying BBEG for a lower level party (how much lower? That depends on the build...). Note that the goal here isn't (just) a mastermind, nor it a character that can beat a party, it's a boss fight that players would find fun.