I think one of the things that really gets to me about the change to Alert is the removal of the can't be surprised and this expectation from the inane grinning of Crawford during the interview that the player character taking alert is going to be giving up their turn order for someone else.
it just feels like some second class character will be pressured to be giving up their turn to the Barb/pally/wiz/whatever
this is a fundamental change from what alert is to an individual; unable to be surprised, can act on a surprise round, typically will have a high turn order and act before others
Changing it to a lesser height in the turn order and pressure to give it up to another individual… just no.
you are the individual that is alert, this nonsensical function where you can give up your alertness to another? Pure rubbish
there is already an ability that exists within battle master Commander’s Strike that has a similar effect (albeit limited to an attack) to what they want to achieve. Take some time and rejig the new feat to something similar but don’t nerf Alert
My assumption is that the removal of "can never be surprised" was to power down the feat to be something more appropriate for a 1st level character. Crawford addresses this in the video, saying some feats were altered to be better fits for first level characters.
While the loss of that particular ability is understandably a bit of a bummer, I like that the bonus to initiative rolls scales with the character's proficiency bonus. It's a nice touch and helps keep the feat both relevant and level-appropriate.
At the very least I don't think its named correctly, it doesn't feel like it represents being alert at all. I personally don't like the initiative bonus as that should be the default, the more experienced you are the quicker you react to danger. If you want a master initiative feat give them expertise in that. The swapping initiative part can be very cool, but I suspect the classes that benefit from going first are taking this feat so I'm not sure how often it gets used outside of maybe if you know the wizard is opening with a fireball so you have them go first so no one in the party runs into the area they were going to target.
I personally don't like the initiative bonus as that should be the default, the more experienced you are the quicker you react to danger.
Maybe I'm not understanding what you wrote here, but the new feat does exactly this (the higher level the PC, the higher the bonus to initiative). Your PB goes up as your PC levels up, which means the bonus to your initiative roll increases as your PC gets more experienced.
I personally don't like the initiative bonus as that should be the default, the more experienced you are the quicker you react to danger.
Maybe I'm not understanding what you wrote here, but the new feat does exactly this (the higher level the PC, the higher the bonus to initiative). Your PB goes up as your PC levels up, which means the bonus to your initiative roll increases as your PC gets more experienced.
I'm saying that should not require a feat. At your base every PC should have their initiative increase as they level. If they want "alert" to add to it as well it should be an additional bonus, as if they had something like expertise in initiative.
I like the scaling of the initiative bonus as the character gains levels.
I like the swap initiative feature. I imagine this on a rogue to let the barbarian get into position so the rogue can get sneak attack damage on her first turn. I can see using this feature in every combat. I agree, however, that this might fit the flavor of "leadership" better than "alertness."
I think the original immunity to surprise was a bit OP, but I would like to see something like Advantage on Perception checks to avoid being surprised.
I don't mind losing the protection from Advantage against "unseen attackers". To me, this one feels out-of-place in the original feat.
Discussion of the incapacitated condition seems weird, but I've heard speculation that incapacitated might be connected to being surprised.
I like the swap initiative feature. I imagine this on a rogue to let the barbarian get into position so the rogue can get sneak attack damage on her first turn. I can see using this feature in every combat. I agree, however, that this might fit the flavor of "leadership" better than "alertness."
that is exactly how I can see this being spammed - every single combat
add in advantage on the initiative for both the individual and the recipient of the initiative swap (from the never ending sweets being dropped by inspiration) and it’s just wrong
I think the issue is not what the new Alert Feat does, but rather it replaces the old alert feat. Like it would probably be fine as a brand new feat while the old alert is simply set to a non-first level feat.
What if the the swap initiative feature were limited to, say, proficiency bonus number of times per long rest?
Fine for a dungeon crawl but I don’t see that many encounters, read: rolling for initiative, more than a couple of times per long rest in a well constructed campaign. So even limiting it to proficiency means that it’s going to be used in a high percentage of cases.
I’m pretty sure the flavour is “you’re alert, so you can warn someone else to get ready”. Fits perfectly tbh!
I like the removal of the surprise immunity, makes it less of a “must have”.
I disagree with it fitting alert i cannotsee how the recipient of the switch was suddenly at a level of watchfulness in order to be receptive to swapping turn order.
I think the issue is not what the new Alert Feat does, but rather it replaces the old alert feat. Like it would probably be fine as a brand new feat while the old alert is simply set to a non-first level feat.
We don't know much yet. I have money on feat trees making a come back so we might be able to have the old alert features in a continuation pick.
True, but at the moment we only have this to work with for our feedback. I don't think we should include any sort of speculation in the feedback. I tend to give my feedback under the guise of this being all that is even though I know more is coming. I'd imagine for this in particular, seeing how the new rules interact with the older 5E ones is something that they want to look at for the sake of backwards compatibility.
The current form of the Alert feat just looks hyper specialized for rogue, since rogues being dex-based almost always were high up the initiate chain and could get in situations in the first round where they had neither advantage or an ally within 5 feet of the target, making them lose their main ability just for rolling well. So the whole swap your initiative to some martial means they can now ensure that they are more likely to be striking a target within 5 foot of an ally. But if you're not a rogue why would you want the current form of alert? literally you'd only want it to be ensure a rogue goes after you... so it's hyper specialized for rogue and I am not certain I like that. I don't mind a feat that is better for rogue but still good for other classes, but this seems like it's excellent for rogue and not so good for other classes.
I think one of the things that really gets to me about the change to Alert is the removal of the can't be surprised and this expectation from the inane grinning of Crawford during the interview that the player character taking alert is going to be giving up their turn order for someone else.
it just feels like some second class character will be pressured to be giving up their turn to the Barb/pally/wiz/whatever
this is a fundamental change from what alert is to an individual; unable to be surprised, can act on a surprise round, typically will have a high turn order and act before others
Changing it to a lesser height in the turn order and pressure to give it up to another individual… just no.
you are the individual that is alert, this nonsensical function where you can give up your alertness to another? Pure rubbish
there is already an ability that exists within battle master Commander’s Strike that has a similar effect (albeit limited to an attack) to what they want to achieve. Take some time and rejig the new feat to something similar but don’t nerf Alert
My assumption is that the removal of "can never be surprised" was to power down the feat to be something more appropriate for a 1st level character. Crawford addresses this in the video, saying some feats were altered to be better fits for first level characters.
While the loss of that particular ability is understandably a bit of a bummer, I like that the bonus to initiative rolls scales with the character's proficiency bonus. It's a nice touch and helps keep the feat both relevant and level-appropriate.
I don't know about you, but I immediately thought that the tactics wonks are gonna love this Feat.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
At the very least I don't think its named correctly, it doesn't feel like it represents being alert at all. I personally don't like the initiative bonus as that should be the default, the more experienced you are the quicker you react to danger. If you want a master initiative feat give them expertise in that. The swapping initiative part can be very cool, but I suspect the classes that benefit from going first are taking this feat so I'm not sure how often it gets used outside of maybe if you know the wizard is opening with a fireball so you have them go first so no one in the party runs into the area they were going to target.
Maybe I'm not understanding what you wrote here, but the new feat does exactly this (the higher level the PC, the higher the bonus to initiative). Your PB goes up as your PC levels up, which means the bonus to your initiative roll increases as your PC gets more experienced.
I'm saying that should not require a feat. At your base every PC should have their initiative increase as they level. If they want "alert" to add to it as well it should be an additional bonus, as if they had something like expertise in initiative.
I like the scaling of the initiative bonus as the character gains levels.
I like the swap initiative feature. I imagine this on a rogue to let the barbarian get into position so the rogue can get sneak attack damage on her first turn. I can see using this feature in every combat. I agree, however, that this might fit the flavor of "leadership" better than "alertness."
I think the original immunity to surprise was a bit OP, but I would like to see something like Advantage on Perception checks to avoid being surprised.
I don't mind losing the protection from Advantage against "unseen attackers". To me, this one feels out-of-place in the original feat.
Discussion of the incapacitated condition seems weird, but I've heard speculation that incapacitated might be connected to being surprised.
that is exactly how I can see this being spammed - every single combat
add in advantage on the initiative for both the individual and the recipient of the initiative swap (from the never ending sweets being dropped by inspiration) and it’s just wrong
thats not Alert, that’s something else entirely
I’m pretty sure the flavour is “you’re alert, so you can warn someone else to get ready”. Fits perfectly tbh!
I like the removal of the surprise immunity, makes it less of a “must have”.
I feel like it would have been better to keep it but make Alert a non-1st level feat, and then make this new version a completely new feat altogether.
What if the the swap initiative feature were limited to, say, proficiency bonus number of times per long rest?
I think the issue is not what the new Alert Feat does, but rather it replaces the old alert feat. Like it would probably be fine as a brand new feat while the old alert is simply set to a non-first level feat.
Fine for a dungeon crawl but I don’t see that many encounters, read: rolling for initiative, more than a couple of times per long rest in a well constructed campaign. So even limiting it to proficiency means that it’s going to be used in a high percentage of cases.
I disagree with it fitting alert i cannot see how the recipient of the switch was suddenly at a level of watchfulness in order to be receptive to swapping turn order.
True, but at the moment we only have this to work with for our feedback. I don't think we should include any sort of speculation in the feedback. I tend to give my feedback under the guise of this being all that is even though I know more is coming. I'd imagine for this in particular, seeing how the new rules interact with the older 5E ones is something that they want to look at for the sake of backwards compatibility.
The current form of the Alert feat just looks hyper specialized for rogue, since rogues being dex-based almost always were high up the initiate chain and could get in situations in the first round where they had neither advantage or an ally within 5 feet of the target, making them lose their main ability just for rolling well. So the whole swap your initiative to some martial means they can now ensure that they are more likely to be striking a target within 5 foot of an ally. But if you're not a rogue why would you want the current form of alert? literally you'd only want it to be ensure a rogue goes after you... so it's hyper specialized for rogue and I am not certain I like that. I don't mind a feat that is better for rogue but still good for other classes, but this seems like it's excellent for rogue and not so good for other classes.