My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
First off, Martial Arts die now progresses from a d6 to a d12. I mean, that's a nice improvement. No more "Monk Weapon" nonsense, just simple weapons. In addition, weapons no longer scale with martial arts die. And no, Weapon Mastery (which the Monk does get) does not work with Unarmed Strikes. So pick either damage or a small trick, not both. Most simple weapons only deal 1d6 or 1d8, so that's a downgrade from level 11+ for most monks, I guess that's fine. By the way, despite being part of the "Warrior" group, you only get 2 weapon masteries - just as many as Rogues, Paladins, Rangers and even a Cleric subclass do.
Ki points were renamed, but nothing exciting. The biggest change for level 2 is that Step of the Wind now activates both Dash and Disengage. I guess that's nice if you ever use it (spoilers, you might).
Empowered Strikes now allow you to change your damage to Force, rather than magical damage. I actually think it's nice, given some monsters have resistance to certain damage types regardless of magical sources or not, and Force is very rarely resisted. It's more of a quality-of-life change, though.
Heightened Metabolism is a new 7th-level feature, allowing you to shorten short rest to one minute - once per long rest. It might be a bit weird in many cases, but I guess it's nice. One minute is easier to ask of the party than one hour.
Self-Restoration is an improved Stillness-of-Mind, but it comes three levels later and now also includes the Purity of Body in it.
Deflect Energy, is the first really interesting change to this class, but at level 13! Now you can use Deflect Missiles (which hasn't changed for its base feature) on magical projectiles too. I mean, it's a very nice feature, very appreciated, but at quite a late level, and also, still can be somewhat situational.
Superior Defence at level 18 is a nerfed version of Empty Body, at a lower Ki cost. I don't hate it, but I'd wish the Astral Projection part was still included.
A new 20th-level ability allows your meagre d8 die to survive a few more rounds - if you have the Ki to spend.
So far, not really a lot of changes. Definitely not enough, and the biggest problem, Ki consumption is still too high at low levels. Heightened Metabolism helps, but that's also only on level 7. On the other hand, we get slightly more damage from Unarmed Strikes, but I don't think that's good enough to justify all the Ki-cost. The Warrior group are still lacking in comparison to all others, and the Monk gets the worst of it, yet again.
As for Subclasses, they're all improved, though I still think it could have been better. Just look at the Bard/Ranger subclasses, or even the Rogue's. They are far more powerful. But let's see:
Shadow Monk, renamed. Now you can see through your Darkness spell, and its cost was reduced. Pretty nice to be honest, but you lost some spells. The 6th-level feature remains the same, and the 11th-level feature now empowers it a little - with a cost. The capstone is very nice, but 17th level means nobody will get to use it. All in all, an improvement to the subclass. It's solid.
Elemental is completely changed. Now, you can spend one Ki to get 10' reach for 10 minutes. A nice use of the point, I guess. You can also pull people or push them away. I guess it helps to stay out of range - making it truly a subclass of staying away from enemies. 6th level brings a good AoE option. The damage isn't great but the 20' sphere is large, and 2 Ki points are costly yet worth it when facing groups. At 11th level, you get to fly now, which is pretty cool. You can swim, too, but that's not as important. It all costs a Ki point, though I guess it's not a bad use. Then, at the 17th level, you get an ability that slightly empowers your Step of the Wind (which triggers the flight) so you might use it more often. It's nice against large groups, but not particularly interesting against single enemies. I guess you do get to deal extra damage with normal attacks too, though only once per turn.
Open Hand - enemies must now fail a constitution save to lose their reactions. Other than that, most is unchanged. However, the 11th-level feature now allows you to use Step of the Wind for free. It takes your BA, but now it's a feature you might actually use more often. I think that's pretty nice, even if at a pretty late level. Sadly, Wholeness of Body heals even less now, and it truly just kinda sucks. Oh, right, and Quivering Palm no longer one-shots enemies. It instead deals 10d12 on failed saves, or half on a success. Does it suck now? No, still very powerful. And anyway, the level is too high to be relevant.
So the subclasses are pretty good compared to their 2014 versions, but still not good enough to save the monk. I mean, it is once again a class that really excels at very high levels - but who gets there anyway? At low levels, you deal more damage now, which is nice... that's about it. Until the 7th level, you're nearly the exact same, except your attacks now deal +1 average damage. It's nice, but if you compare it to any of the other classes, it's still not nearly as good.
Just look at the new Bard subclass giving the Bard Unarmored Defence and a just slightly nerfed Martial Arts. (It's the same, but it can only be used when Bardic Inspiration is used, instead of every turn. You're still a Bard with everything that a Bard is, though! Honestly, the new/revised Bard subclasses are all just sick. Well, Lore is practically unchanged from 2014.)
Im disappointed with the new 4 elements subclass. While the 2014 version definitely needed some patching, I wish they would have tried to fix it as a spellcasting subclass rather than removing the ability to cast spells (almost) entirely. This new version seems effective enough, but also very bland. The only thing that changes with your choice of element is what damage type you deal.
I like the changes to Shadow Monk overall, no real complaints there
I wish the Monk's Martial Arts interacted with the new Unarmed Strike rules more fully. Allow you to use Dexterity (or maybe even Wisdom) instead of Strength for the DCs for Grappling or Shoving. I would have been fine with this even being something tied into the Open Hand subclass, but its complete absence is discouraging.
Finally, it feels like this version of the Monk is still very MAD, relying heavily on both Dexterity and Wisdom for their main functions while you still need Con for decent health and still potentially also a Strength investment if you want to be able to grapple (or shove as non-Open Hand)
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Im disappointed with the new 4 elements subclass. While the 2014 version definitely needed some patching, I wish they would have tried to fix it as a spellcasting subclass rather than removing the ability to cast spells (almost) entirely. This new version seems effective enough, but also very bland. The only thing that changes with your choice of element is what damage type you deal.
I like the changes to Shadow Monk overall, no real complaints there
I wish the Monk's Martial Arts interacted with the new Unarmed Strike rules more fully. Allow you to use Dexterity (or maybe even Wisdom) instead of Strength for the DCs for Grappling or Shoving. I would have been fine with this even being something tied into the Open Hand subclass, but its complete absence is discouraging.
Finally, it feels like this version of the Monk is still very MAD, relying heavily on both Dexterity and Wisdom for their main functions while you still need Con for decent health and still potentially also a Strength investment if you want to be able to grapple (or shove as non-Open Hand)
I disagree about 4E monks. I like the changes. I do wish there were more options, but Elemental Attunement wraps most of the features of Fangs of the Fire Snake, Water Whip, and Fist of Unbroken Air all into one, with a 10 minute duration. Those were probably the best 4E ED's anyway, especially with the Ki costs involved and how late you got some spell options. I do feel that the bump of elemental damage in Elemental Epitome should be earlier, maybe even replacing the fly/swim speed at 11.
Although bland, it gives room for a lot of flavoring your attacks. I wish Environmental Burst was a bit better or had some kind of status effect rider added to the damage. 2 Discipline points for three rolls of your MA die (no modifiers) even though it's ranged and AOE seems high. You're probably better off saving 1 Discipline Point and use FoB for 4 attacks.
Edit: I wonder if the change to force damage instead of magical unarmed strikes at 6th level monk means that resistance to non-magical BPS will be removed from monsters.
Monk is definitely disappointing and I hate that everyone that is weapon focused is getting mastery. It takes away some of the specialness we felt we were getting with the new fighter and barbarian. Back to "the warrior group needs something".
Edit: I wonder if the change to force damage instead of magical unarmed strikes at 6th level monk means that resistance to non-magical BPS will be removed from monsters.
I don't think so. If they were removing the resistance to non magical attacks, Monk wouldn't need to be able to do Force Damage as a way to by pass it.
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Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
Yeah its a bit of a miss. Heightened metabolism is a solid change but I wish it came online at like level 4 or 5. Like swap the levels of this and slow fall. It is also pretty much the change I have been suggesting for warlock instead of the new 1/2 caster base model so I may be biassed. Still by the math they need some love. With the move away from ki and turning it into a more martial training pool I don't know why they don't drop wisdom out of the equation. Have their DCs scale off of dex like their attacks. Make their AC improve as they level instead of adding in wisdom.
With the nerf in frequency and duration on stunning strike they could have had it target a weak save like int or something.
Most of this is meh or worse. The only real positives are step of the wind, heightened metabolism and its new base damage is a bit higher. Everything else is either worse or a lateral move. And they needed a lot more than that.
Barbarians haven't been in that desperate need of a tune up in the first place, and Rage already got buffed. And Fighters get to play with Weapon Masteries a lot more than other classes, as well as getting an addition one to let them play into a "the right tool for the right job" area. I agree that Monks could use some more support for a purely unarmed build, though. Overall, though, I think things are in a good place.
Barbarians are probably getting an indirect nerf, because it looks suspiciously like they've eliminated the concept of resistance to non-magic weapons and instead things that would have magical attacks in 2014 instead have force damage (which they don't resist).
Edit: I wonder if the change to force damage instead of magical unarmed strikes at 6th level monk means that resistance to non-magical BPS will be removed from monsters.
I don't think so. If they were removing the resistance to non magical attacks, Monk wouldn't need to be able to do Force Damage as a way to by pass it.
I definitely think they're removing the distinction between "Magical BPS" and "nonmagical BPS". Everyone is getting conversions to Force or Radiant or other elements.
Edit: I wonder if the change to force damage instead of magical unarmed strikes at 6th level monk means that resistance to non-magical BPS will be removed from monsters.
I don't think so. If they were removing the resistance to non magical attacks, Monk wouldn't need to be able to do Force Damage as a way to by pass it.
I definitely think they're removing the distinction between "Magical BPS" and "nonmagical BPS". Everyone is getting conversions to Force or Radiant or other elements.
Which still doesn't cover magic weapons, so unless they want add an extra step to issuing those for a DM, I think it's more just a ribbon to help highlight "yes, this is no longer mundane damage" for Monks and Moon Druids.
I feel like Weapon Mastery should have added a special "mastery" for unarmed attacks, else wise you're just forced to pick up a weapon still to get the benefit of a weapon mastery, my thoughts would be with other changes to unarmed attacks, add +proficiency bonus damage to unarmed attacks against a target you're currently grappling.
I also think a Discipline to give temp HP wouldn't be entirely out of place either, my thinking could be on the 2nd level an additional ability to spend 1 point to gain martial die+WIS MOD temp HP. Could call it mind over matter, or something like that.
Monk remains the worst class in the game, bar none. The ONLY relevant change is the unarmed damage boost, and every other issue with the class is untouched. Still the only class that needs two maximum ability scores to function, you have to do Dex first to function at all meaning your Save DCs for anything will suck for most of your life. You still have less hit points than every other Warrior, and when you're one of two classes that can ONLY function in melee that's a problem. Oh and you'll have the worst AC of any warrior class for most of the game too.
And Stunning Strike - THE most overrated ability in the game - got nerfed. Just amazing. 0/10.
I just wonder what they were thinking. Most classes received some serious changes, one way or the other. Nearly all of them got buffed of all things, with some minor nerfs here and there.
And then they looked at the monk, who ever since Tasha's was published is commonly agreed upon as the weakest class that needed a rework more than any for many reasons. They looked at the Monk, waited for them to be the last class published. They gave Rogues a bunch of insanely cool stuff and made the Bard insanely strong. They looked at the Monk and somehow thought: "This is fine."
A first level monk dual wielding daggers (which have nick) can attack 3x/turn for 1d4+3/1d4+3/1d6+3 (17.5 damage). At level 2 you can spend a discipline point for another 1d6+3 (24 damage total). I don't know if 'glass cannon' is the intended design, but it's certainly the result.
A first level monk dual wielding daggers (which have nick) can attack 3x/turn for 1d4+3/1d4+3/1d6+3 (17.5 damage). At level 2 you can spend a discipline point for another 1d6+3 (24 damage total). I don't know if 'glass cannon' is the intended design, but it's certainly the result.
Monk's don't get a fighting style, so you don't add the modifier to the second dagger attack making it: 2d4+3+1d6+3 = 14.5 damage
Compare to a Ranger with Hunter's mark and dual wielding shortswords:
Oh they did, that's good. Otherwise there is so much pressure to get as many attacks as possible. But that just makes Monk DPR equal to Ranger DPR at low levels (actually still less so b/c the hunter's mark 1d6 has a higher chance to trigger), but it doesn't scale as well because the only feature it gets to increase its damage is Flurry of Blows.
Oh they did, that's good. Otherwise there is so much pressure to get as many attacks as possible. But that just makes Monk DPR equal to Ranger DPR at low levels (actually still less so b/c the hunter's mark 1d6 has a higher chance to trigger), but it doesn't scale as well because the only feature it gets to increase its damage is Flurry of Blows.
And? They also don't have to worry about dropping FoB after one turn. Unarmed attacks could use a tune up to keep pace with Weapon Masteries, but overall the Monk isn't in nearly so bad a place as some make it out to be. No, it's not the pinnacle of optimized DPR, but this isn't an MMO so you aren't required to maintain maximum output to remain relevant.
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My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
So far, not really a lot of changes. Definitely not enough, and the biggest problem, Ki consumption is still too high at low levels. Heightened Metabolism helps, but that's also only on level 7. On the other hand, we get slightly more damage from Unarmed Strikes, but I don't think that's good enough to justify all the Ki-cost. The Warrior group are still lacking in comparison to all others, and the Monk gets the worst of it, yet again.
As for Subclasses, they're all improved, though I still think it could have been better. Just look at the Bard/Ranger subclasses, or even the Rogue's. They are far more powerful. But let's see:
At 11th level, you get to fly now, which is pretty cool. You can swim, too, but that's not as important. It all costs a Ki point, though I guess it's not a bad use. Then, at the 17th level, you get an ability that slightly empowers your Step of the Wind (which triggers the flight) so you might use it more often. It's nice against large groups, but not particularly interesting against single enemies. I guess you do get to deal extra damage with normal attacks too, though only once per turn.
So the subclasses are pretty good compared to their 2014 versions, but still not good enough to save the monk. I mean, it is once again a class that really excels at very high levels - but who gets there anyway? At low levels, you deal more damage now, which is nice... that's about it. Until the 7th level, you're nearly the exact same, except your attacks now deal +1 average damage. It's nice, but if you compare it to any of the other classes, it's still not nearly as good.
Just look at the new Bard subclass giving the Bard Unarmored Defence and a just slightly nerfed Martial Arts. (It's the same, but it can only be used when Bardic Inspiration is used, instead of every turn. You're still a Bard with everything that a Bard is, though! Honestly, the new/revised Bard subclasses are all just sick. Well, Lore is practically unchanged from 2014.)
Varielky
Im disappointed with the new 4 elements subclass. While the 2014 version definitely needed some patching, I wish they would have tried to fix it as a spellcasting subclass rather than removing the ability to cast spells (almost) entirely. This new version seems effective enough, but also very bland. The only thing that changes with your choice of element is what damage type you deal.
I like the changes to Shadow Monk overall, no real complaints there
I wish the Monk's Martial Arts interacted with the new Unarmed Strike rules more fully. Allow you to use Dexterity (or maybe even Wisdom) instead of Strength for the DCs for Grappling or Shoving. I would have been fine with this even being something tied into the Open Hand subclass, but its complete absence is discouraging.
Finally, it feels like this version of the Monk is still very MAD, relying heavily on both Dexterity and Wisdom for their main functions while you still need Con for decent health and still potentially also a Strength investment if you want to be able to grapple (or shove as non-Open Hand)
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
I disagree about 4E monks. I like the changes. I do wish there were more options, but Elemental Attunement wraps most of the features of Fangs of the Fire Snake, Water Whip, and Fist of Unbroken Air all into one, with a 10 minute duration. Those were probably the best 4E ED's anyway, especially with the Ki costs involved and how late you got some spell options. I do feel that the bump of elemental damage in Elemental Epitome should be earlier, maybe even replacing the fly/swim speed at 11.
Although bland, it gives room for a lot of flavoring your attacks. I wish Environmental Burst was a bit better or had some kind of status effect rider added to the damage. 2 Discipline points for three rolls of your MA die (no modifiers) even though it's ranged and AOE seems high. You're probably better off saving 1 Discipline Point and use FoB for 4 attacks.
Edit: I wonder if the change to force damage instead of magical unarmed strikes at 6th level monk means that resistance to non-magical BPS will be removed from monsters.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
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Monk is definitely disappointing and I hate that everyone that is weapon focused is getting mastery. It takes away some of the specialness we felt we were getting with the new fighter and barbarian. Back to "the warrior group needs something".
I don't think so. If they were removing the resistance to non magical attacks, Monk wouldn't need to be able to do Force Damage as a way to by pass it.
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
Yeah its a bit of a miss. Heightened metabolism is a solid change but I wish it came online at like level 4 or 5. Like swap the levels of this and slow fall. It is also pretty much the change I have been suggesting for warlock instead of the new 1/2 caster base model so I may be biassed. Still by the math they need some love. With the move away from ki and turning it into a more martial training pool I don't know why they don't drop wisdom out of the equation. Have their DCs scale off of dex like their attacks. Make their AC improve as they level instead of adding in wisdom.
With the nerf in frequency and duration on stunning strike they could have had it target a weak save like int or something.
Most of this is meh or worse. The only real positives are step of the wind, heightened metabolism and its new base damage is a bit higher. Everything else is either worse or a lateral move. And they needed a lot more than that.
Barbarians haven't been in that desperate need of a tune up in the first place, and Rage already got buffed. And Fighters get to play with Weapon Masteries a lot more than other classes, as well as getting an addition one to let them play into a "the right tool for the right job" area. I agree that Monks could use some more support for a purely unarmed build, though. Overall, though, I think things are in a good place.
Barbarians are probably getting an indirect nerf, because it looks suspiciously like they've eliminated the concept of resistance to non-magic weapons and instead things that would have magical attacks in 2014 instead have force damage (which they don't resist).
I definitely think they're removing the distinction between "Magical BPS" and "nonmagical BPS". Everyone is getting conversions to Force or Radiant or other elements.
Or they just are moving it away from the player end of things to give a slight boost and more flavor.
Which still doesn't cover magic weapons, so unless they want add an extra step to issuing those for a DM, I think it's more just a ribbon to help highlight "yes, this is no longer mundane damage" for Monks and Moon Druids.
I feel like Weapon Mastery should have added a special "mastery" for unarmed attacks, else wise you're just forced to pick up a weapon still to get the benefit of a weapon mastery, my thoughts would be with other changes to unarmed attacks, add +proficiency bonus damage to unarmed attacks against a target you're currently grappling.
I also think a Discipline to give temp HP wouldn't be entirely out of place either, my thinking could be on the 2nd level an additional ability to spend 1 point to gain martial die+WIS MOD temp HP. Could call it mind over matter, or something like that.
Monk remains the worst class in the game, bar none. The ONLY relevant change is the unarmed damage boost, and every other issue with the class is untouched. Still the only class that needs two maximum ability scores to function, you have to do Dex first to function at all meaning your Save DCs for anything will suck for most of your life. You still have less hit points than every other Warrior, and when you're one of two classes that can ONLY function in melee that's a problem. Oh and you'll have the worst AC of any warrior class for most of the game too.
And Stunning Strike - THE most overrated ability in the game - got nerfed. Just amazing. 0/10.
I just wonder what they were thinking. Most classes received some serious changes, one way or the other. Nearly all of them got buffed of all things, with some minor nerfs here and there.
And then they looked at the monk, who ever since Tasha's was published is commonly agreed upon as the weakest class that needed a rework more than any for many reasons. They looked at the Monk, waited for them to be the last class published. They gave Rogues a bunch of insanely cool stuff and made the Bard insanely strong. They looked at the Monk and somehow thought: "This is fine."
Varielky
A first level monk dual wielding daggers (which have nick) can attack 3x/turn for 1d4+3/1d4+3/1d6+3 (17.5 damage). At level 2 you can spend a discipline point for another 1d6+3 (24 damage total). I don't know if 'glass cannon' is the intended design, but it's certainly the result.
Monk's don't get a fighting style, so you don't add the modifier to the second dagger attack making it: 2d4+3+1d6+3 = 14.5 damage
Compare to a Ranger with Hunter's mark and dual wielding shortswords:
2d6+3+2d6 = 17 damage
It's not 2d6 anymore, they gave Hunter's Mark the Hex treatment.
Hunter's mark is once per turn, but you're right, I forgot about fighting style.
Oh they did, that's good. Otherwise there is so much pressure to get as many attacks as possible. But that just makes Monk DPR equal to Ranger DPR at low levels (actually still less so b/c the hunter's mark 1d6 has a higher chance to trigger), but it doesn't scale as well because the only feature it gets to increase its damage is Flurry of Blows.
And? They also don't have to worry about dropping FoB after one turn. Unarmed attacks could use a tune up to keep pace with Weapon Masteries, but overall the Monk isn't in nearly so bad a place as some make it out to be. No, it's not the pinnacle of optimized DPR, but this isn't an MMO so you aren't required to maintain maximum output to remain relevant.