-Step of the Wind options should be free to use. Rogue doesn't have to "pay" for them- why should Monk? Spending your Bonus Action is cost enough.
-Levels 1-4, Monks should have 1 attack on Action plus Bonus Action attack. Levels 5-10, they should have Extra Attack on Action plus Bonus Action attack. Level 11+, they still have Extra Attack, but Bonus Action attack should be 2 attacks.
-Flurry of Blows should be basically like the Fighter's Action Surge, only the Monk could use it more often by spending Discipline/Ki. It would be like an extra attack Action added onto the turn. SO: Levels 1-4, Monk has 2 possible attacks/turn + option to get 2 more w FoB. Levels 5-10, 3 possible attacks per turn + option for 2 FoB attacks. Levels 11+, 4 possible attacks + option for 2 FoB attacks.
- Change Unarmored Defense to Dex modifier + 10 + Proficiency Bonus. I think this would help take some of the pressure off of having to build up multiple Ability Scores.
-Patient Defense should be Discipline/Ki free. You're already giving up your bonus action attack or other BA options. Why should you have to "pay" twice for it?
-Change Deflect Missiles to Deflect Attack, so it can be used to mitigate melee damage as well. Perhaps have an option to spend a Ki to knock melee opponents prone if all the damage is blocked (similar to catching/throwing the missile).
-Stunning Strike: limit it to once per short rest, but it just automatically works. No saving throw.
Those are the major points I'd change. By eliminating Ki costs for Step of the Wind, Patient Defense, and Stunning Strike, there should be enough Ki to go around for Flurry of Blows, Deflect Attacks, and for subclass options. Changing Unarmored Defense to use only Dex mod and making Stunning Strike have no saving throw makes the Monk a Dexterity class- Wisdom would be no longer a must have.
that would be sick . trying to be patient on next ua cause its going to be a bit.
If we are going by what is said in the UA 7 video, monk may get Perfect Self at level 5 like sorcerer get Sorcerous Restoration at level 5. Not sure the Heightened Metabolism will remain. If it remain, the ki points issues will be resolved…..
If we are going by what is said in the UA 7 video, monk may get Perfect Self at level 5 like sorcerer get Sorcerous Restoration at level 5. Not sure the Heightened Metabolism will remain. If it remain, the ki points issues will be resolved…..
I think your poll should probably have been less specific and more general; I voted for "interrupt + neck pinch" option as they're both fun ideas though not necessarily exactly what I want to see. More generally I want to see a Monk's basic toolkit include more free options either initially or later so they have a core set of options to choose from round to round, and to gain more Ki-based abilities as standard.
Basically the goal for me is for Monk to become more versatile, as that was always what appealed to me about them in theory but which I don't think the 5e class fully realises. Disengaging for one should be "free" (bonus action only, no Ki cost) so that skirmishing is an option.
The defensive options are the tricky area for me with Monk; in Baldur's Gate 3 one item I love is the Armour of Uninhibited Kushigo, which grants a reaction attack when an enemy misses you if you have Patient Defense active, and it works well in that game because it's not hard to get enemies to attack you while you're using Patient Defense. I could see this becoming a core feature of Monk, possibly combined with some way to encourage an enemy to attack you (e.g- disadvantage against others if you're nearby) so you can not only maximise its effectiveness, but also lose less potential damage by going defensive.
I basically want Monk to be a risky swiss army knife of options more geared towards mobility, control and adaptation rather than trying to compete on damage against the Fighter.
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I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I think your poll should probably have been less specific and more general; I voted for "interrupt + neck pinch" option as they're both fun ideas though not necessarily exactly what I want to see. More generally I want to see a Monk's basic toolkit include more free options either initially or later so they have a core set of options to choose from round to round, and to gain more Ki-based abilities as standard.
Basically the goal for me is for Monk to become more versatile, as that was always what appealed to me about them in theory but which I don't think the 5e class fully realises. Disengaging for one should be "free" (bonus action only, no Ki cost) so that skirmishing is an option.
The defensive options are the tricky area for me with Monk; in Baldur's Gate 3 one item I love is the Armour of Uninhibited Kushigo, which grants a reaction attack when an enemy misses you if you have Patient Defense active, and it works well in that game because it's not hard to get enemies to attack you while you're using Patient Defense. I could see this becoming a core feature of Monk, possibly combined with some way to encourage an enemy to attack you (e.g- disadvantage against others if you're nearby) so you can not only maximise its effectiveness, but also lose less potential damage by going defensive.
I basically want Monk to be a risky swiss army knife of options more geared towards mobility, control and adaptation rather than trying to compete on damage against the Fighter.
i agree with additional options and especially mobility and control. rather than compete with fighters, i'd rather see monks as strongly complimenting other warriors, increasing the survivability of others. resource points being spent to empower attacks with poison-like nerve pokes, daze away enemy bonus actions, siphon off enemy reaction actions, reduce AC on the next melee strike, tangle the feet of any enemy within 5ft, etc.
but to accomplish that, i also think there must be more free passive abilities: dismantle drunken monk and give all monks (who are not exhausted or dazed) always-on disengage and 'spend 5ft of movement to end prone condition' as a reaction. mobility needs to be innate.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
I think your poll should probably have been less specific and more general; I voted for "interrupt + neck pinch" option as they're both fun ideas though not necessarily exactly what I want to see. More generally I want to see a Monk's basic toolkit include more free options either initially or later so they have a core set of options to choose from round to round, and to gain more Ki-based abilities as standard.
Basically the goal for me is for Monk to become more versatile, as that was always what appealed to me about them in theory but which I don't think the 5e class fully realises. Disengaging for one should be "free" (bonus action only, no Ki cost) so that skirmishing is an option.
The defensive options are the tricky area for me with Monk; in Baldur's Gate 3 one item I love is the Armour of Uninhibited Kushigo, which grants a reaction attack when an enemy misses you if you have Patient Defense active, and it works well in that game because it's not hard to get enemies to attack you while you're using Patient Defense. I could see this becoming a core feature of Monk, possibly combined with some way to encourage an enemy to attack you (e.g- disadvantage against others if you're nearby) so you can not only maximise its effectiveness, but also lose less potential damage by going defensive.
I basically want Monk to be a risky swiss army knife of options more geared towards mobility, control and adaptation rather than trying to compete on damage against the Fighter.
i agree with additional options and especially mobility and control. rather than compete with fighters, i'd rather see monks as strongly complimenting other warriors, increasing the survivability of others. resource points being spent to empower attacks with poison-like nerve pokes, daze away enemy bonus actions, siphon off enemy reaction actions, reduce AC on the next melee strike, tangle the feet of any enemy within 5ft, etc.
but to accomplish that, i also think there must be more free passive abilities: dismantle drunken monk and give all monks (who are not exhausted or dazed) always-on disengage and 'spend 5ft of movement to end prone condition' as a reaction. mobility needs to be innate.
I'm in favor of the concept in general of taking some subclasses and just making their features inherent to the base class. I think you could pull most of the features from both Drunken Master and Open Hand and just make them core features, and you'd be just fine.
I think your poll should probably have been less specific and more general; I voted for "interrupt + neck pinch" option as they're both fun ideas though not necessarily exactly what I want to see. More generally I want to see a Monk's basic toolkit include more free options either initially or later so they have a core set of options to choose from round to round, and to gain more Ki-based abilities as standard.
Basically the goal for me is for Monk to become more versatile, as that was always what appealed to me about them in theory but which I don't think the 5e class fully realises. Disengaging for one should be "free" (bonus action only, no Ki cost) so that skirmishing is an option.
The defensive options are the tricky area for me with Monk; in Baldur's Gate 3 one item I love is the Armour of Uninhibited Kushigo, which grants a reaction attack when an enemy misses you if you have Patient Defense active, and it works well in that game because it's not hard to get enemies to attack you while you're using Patient Defense. I could see this becoming a core feature of Monk, possibly combined with some way to encourage an enemy to attack you (e.g- disadvantage against others if you're nearby) so you can not only maximise its effectiveness, but also lose less potential damage by going defensive.
I basically want Monk to be a risky swiss army knife of options more geared towards mobility, control and adaptation rather than trying to compete on damage against the Fighter.
i agree with additional options and especially mobility and control. rather than compete with fighters, i'd rather see monks as strongly complimenting other warriors, increasing the survivability of others. resource points being spent to empower attacks with poison-like nerve pokes, daze away enemy bonus actions, siphon off enemy reaction actions, reduce AC on the next melee strike, tangle the feet of any enemy within 5ft, etc.
but to accomplish that, i also think there must be more free passive abilities: dismantle drunken monk and give all monks (who are not exhausted or dazed) always-on disengage and 'spend 5ft of movement to end prone condition' as a reaction. mobility needs to be innate.
I'm in favor of the concept in general of taking some subclasses and just making their features inherent to the base class. I think you could pull most of the features from both Drunken Master and Open Hand and just make them core features, and you'd be just fine.
i had been (quietly) opposed to cannibalizing subclasses, but this move strengthens the lore niche of monks being warriors with mystical overtones by removing the two least mystical. clearly there's going to be more warriors than just monk punching things, so no sense trying to claw that specialization back. go the other way, then. lets have more running across still water, dodging an attack by swapping places with a conveniently teleported log, and stapling a foe's shadow to the ground.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
I think your poll should probably have been less specific and more general; I voted for "interrupt + neck pinch" option as they're both fun ideas though not necessarily exactly what I want to see. More generally I want to see a Monk's basic toolkit include more free options either initially or later so they have a core set of options to choose from round to round, and to gain more Ki-based abilities as standard.
Basically the goal for me is for Monk to become more versatile, as that was always what appealed to me about them in theory but which I don't think the 5e class fully realises. Disengaging for one should be "free" (bonus action only, no Ki cost) so that skirmishing is an option.
The defensive options are the tricky area for me with Monk; in Baldur's Gate 3 one item I love is the Armour of Uninhibited Kushigo, which grants a reaction attack when an enemy misses you if you have Patient Defense active, and it works well in that game because it's not hard to get enemies to attack you while you're using Patient Defense. I could see this becoming a core feature of Monk, possibly combined with some way to encourage an enemy to attack you (e.g- disadvantage against others if you're nearby) so you can not only maximise its effectiveness, but also lose less potential damage by going defensive.
I basically want Monk to be a risky swiss army knife of options more geared towards mobility, control and adaptation rather than trying to compete on damage against the Fighter.
i agree with additional options and especially mobility and control. rather than compete with fighters, i'd rather see monks as strongly complimenting other warriors, increasing the survivability of others. resource points being spent to empower attacks with poison-like nerve pokes, daze away enemy bonus actions, siphon off enemy reaction actions, reduce AC on the next melee strike, tangle the feet of any enemy within 5ft, etc.
but to accomplish that, i also think there must be more free passive abilities: dismantle drunken monk and give all monks (who are not exhausted or dazed) always-on disengage and 'spend 5ft of movement to end prone condition' as a reaction. mobility needs to be innate.
I'm in favor of the concept in general of taking some subclasses and just making their features inherent to the base class. I think you could pull most of the features from both Drunken Master and Open Hand and just make them core features, and you'd be just fine.
i had been (quietly) opposed to cannibalizing subclasses, but this move strengthens the lore niche of monks being warriors with mystical overtones by removing the two least mystical. clearly there's going to be more warriors than just monk punching things, so no sense trying to claw that specialization back. go the other way, then. lets have more running across still water, dodging an attack by swapping places with a conveniently teleported log, and stapling a foe's shadow to the ground.
I wish I had remembered those stereotypical cool martial arts moves...lol.
I'll have to ask the young one's sensei when he's going to cover the log move. I really want to sit in for that... XD
I think your poll should probably have been less specific and more general; I voted for "interrupt + neck pinch" option as they're both fun ideas though not necessarily exactly what I want to see. More generally I want to see a Monk's basic toolkit include more free options either initially or later so they have a core set of options to choose from round to round, and to gain more Ki-based abilities as standard.
Basically the goal for me is for Monk to become more versatile, as that was always what appealed to me about them in theory but which I don't think the 5e class fully realises. Disengaging for one should be "free" (bonus action only, no Ki cost) so that skirmishing is an option.
The defensive options are the tricky area for me with Monk; in Baldur's Gate 3 one item I love is the Armour of Uninhibited Kushigo, which grants a reaction attack when an enemy misses you if you have Patient Defense active, and it works well in that game because it's not hard to get enemies to attack you while you're using Patient Defense. I could see this becoming a core feature of Monk, possibly combined with some way to encourage an enemy to attack you (e.g- disadvantage against others if you're nearby) so you can not only maximise its effectiveness, but also lose less potential damage by going defensive.
I basically want Monk to be a risky swiss army knife of options more geared towards mobility, control and adaptation rather than trying to compete on damage against the Fighter.
i agree with additional options and especially mobility and control. rather than compete with fighters, i'd rather see monks as strongly complimenting other warriors, increasing the survivability of others. resource points being spent to empower attacks with poison-like nerve pokes, daze away enemy bonus actions, siphon off enemy reaction actions, reduce AC on the next melee strike, tangle the feet of any enemy within 5ft, etc.
but to accomplish that, i also think there must be more free passive abilities: dismantle drunken monk and give all monks (who are not exhausted or dazed) always-on disengage and 'spend 5ft of movement to end prone condition' as a reaction. mobility needs to be innate.
I would have no problem with merging drunken monk and open hand monk into the base class. I also want to see monk as more the battle-field-control martial rather than just a Fighter that uses fists instead of weapons. I hope that's what the other players want as well, and I think it kind of is since Way of Shadow is in my anecdotal experience the most popular subclass despite being weakest when it comes to DPR but it gets some really fun and unique mechanics unlike all the rest.
I think your poll should probably have been less specific and more general; I voted for "interrupt + neck pinch" option as they're both fun ideas though not necessarily exactly what I want to see. More generally I want to see a Monk's basic toolkit include more free options either initially or later so they have a core set of options to choose from round to round, and to gain more Ki-based abilities as standard.
Basically the goal for me is for Monk to become more versatile, as that was always what appealed to me about them in theory but which I don't think the 5e class fully realises. Disengaging for one should be "free" (bonus action only, no Ki cost) so that skirmishing is an option.
The defensive options are the tricky area for me with Monk; in Baldur's Gate 3 one item I love is the Armour of Uninhibited Kushigo, which grants a reaction attack when an enemy misses you if you have Patient Defense active, and it works well in that game because it's not hard to get enemies to attack you while you're using Patient Defense. I could see this becoming a core feature of Monk, possibly combined with some way to encourage an enemy to attack you (e.g- disadvantage against others if you're nearby) so you can not only maximise its effectiveness, but also lose less potential damage by going defensive.
I basically want Monk to be a risky swiss army knife of options more geared towards mobility, control and adaptation rather than trying to compete on damage against the Fighter.
i agree with additional options and especially mobility and control. rather than compete with fighters, i'd rather see monks as strongly complimenting other warriors, increasing the survivability of others. resource points being spent to empower attacks with poison-like nerve pokes, daze away enemy bonus actions, siphon off enemy reaction actions, reduce AC on the next melee strike, tangle the feet of any enemy within 5ft, etc.
but to accomplish that, i also think there must be more free passive abilities: dismantle drunken monk and give all monks (who are not exhausted or dazed) always-on disengage and 'spend 5ft of movement to end prone condition' as a reaction. mobility needs to be innate.
I would have no problem with merging drunken monk and open hand monk into the base class. I also want to see monk as more the battle-field-control martial rather than just a Fighter that uses fists instead of weapons. I hope that's what the other players want as well, and I think it kind of is since Way of Shadow is in my anecdotal experience the most popular subclass despite being weakest when it comes to DPR but it gets some really fun and unique mechanics unlike all the rest.
people like shadow because it has a strong theme and synergy. Even with liking shadow's design, I still feel the baseline monk is too weak and poorly designed. My feedback on shadow was to the effect of, this is a nice sub option, but the base class isnt supporting it.
Also, sub classes are a good place for differentiation, I may be fine with shadow being weaker dps, and stronger battlefield control, but that doesnt mean thats what the whole class should focus on.
lastly, this is just a revision of the phb, they can't actually remove drunken monk from xanatars. They could alter it, in theory by putting it in the phb, or adding special notes somewhere in the phb, but removal, is basically only really possible for the 3 subclasses in the old phb, as per their stated goals.
I think your poll should probably have been less specific and more general; I voted for "interrupt + neck pinch" option as they're both fun ideas though not necessarily exactly what I want to see. More generally I want to see a Monk's basic toolkit include more free options either initially or later so they have a core set of options to choose from round to round, and to gain more Ki-based abilities as standard.
Basically the goal for me is for Monk to become more versatile, as that was always what appealed to me about them in theory but which I don't think the 5e class fully realises. Disengaging for one should be "free" (bonus action only, no Ki cost) so that skirmishing is an option.
The defensive options are the tricky area for me with Monk; in Baldur's Gate 3 one item I love is the Armour of Uninhibited Kushigo, which grants a reaction attack when an enemy misses you if you have Patient Defense active, and it works well in that game because it's not hard to get enemies to attack you while you're using Patient Defense. I could see this becoming a core feature of Monk, possibly combined with some way to encourage an enemy to attack you (e.g- disadvantage against others if you're nearby) so you can not only maximise its effectiveness, but also lose less potential damage by going defensive.
I basically want Monk to be a risky swiss army knife of options more geared towards mobility, control and adaptation rather than trying to compete on damage against the Fighter.
i agree with additional options and especially mobility and control. rather than compete with fighters, i'd rather see monks as strongly complimenting other warriors, increasing the survivability of others. resource points being spent to empower attacks with poison-like nerve pokes, daze away enemy bonus actions, siphon off enemy reaction actions, reduce AC on the next melee strike, tangle the feet of any enemy within 5ft, etc.
but to accomplish that, i also think there must be more free passive abilities: dismantle drunken monk and give all monks (who are not exhausted or dazed) always-on disengage and 'spend 5ft of movement to end prone condition' as a reaction. mobility needs to be innate.
I would have no problem with merging drunken monk and open hand monk into the base class. I also want to see monk as more the battle-field-control martial rather than just a Fighter that uses fists instead of weapons. I hope that's what the other players want as well, and I think it kind of is since Way of Shadow is in my anecdotal experience the most popular subclass despite being weakest when it comes to DPR but it gets some really fun and unique mechanics unlike all the rest.
people like shadow because it has a strong theme and synergy. Even with liking shadow's design, I still feel the baseline monk is too weak and poorly designed. My feedback on shadow was to the effect of, this is a nice sub option, but the base class isnt supporting it.
Also, sub classes are a good place for differentiation, I may be fine with shadow being weaker dps, and stronger battlefield control, but that doesnt mean thats what the whole class should focus on.
lastly, this is just a revision of the phb, they can't actually remove drunken monk from xanatars. They could alter it, in theory by putting it in the phb, or adding special notes somewhere in the phb, but removal, is basically only really possible for the 3 subclasses in the old phb, as per their stated goals.
They are already stealing features from Astral Self, so they could still steal features from Drunken Master.
Flurry of Blows. Now grants additional (1-2, for a total of 3-4) Unarmed Strikes at higher levels and no longer requires the Attack action.
Patient Defense. When taking the Dodge action, additionally grants Advantage on STR and DEX saving throws while not incapacitated.
Step of the Wind. When taking the Dash or Disengage action, jump distance and height are doubled and amount of feet needed for a running start is reduced by 5.
Stunning Strikes. Building off the ideas from Cunning Strikes.
Is still limited to once/turn, but doesn't cost Ki.
Spending 1 or more Ki now allows for modifiers, like...
Additional uses, should the first fail.
Reducing the damage to 1 + Strength/Dexterity modifier in exchange for a penalty on the saving throw equal to the Martial Arts Die.
Wholeness of Body. Because the optional rule Quickened Healing is weak. I'm leaning towards either a pool of Martial Arts Dice or spending Ki to roll hit dice and add their Wisdom modifier to the total. I don't know which is better, but some self-healing would go a long way.
Patient Defense. When taking the Dodge action, additionally grants Advantage on STR and DEX saving throws while not incapacitated.
FYI, Dodge already provides Adv on DEX saves.
Wholeness of Body. Because the optional rule Quickened Healing is weak. I'm leaning towards either a pool of Martial Arts Dice or spending Ki to roll hit dice and add their Wisdom modifier to the total. I don't know which is better, but some self-healing would go a long way.
Both of those are worse than the current Wholeness of Body, which is ~40% of your max HP back 1/LR at the cost of only 1 action.
I think your poll should probably have been less specific and more general; I voted for "interrupt + neck pinch" option as they're both fun ideas though not necessarily exactly what I want to see. More generally I want to see a Monk's basic toolkit include more free options either initially or later so they have a core set of options to choose from round to round, and to gain more Ki-based abilities as standard.
Basically the goal for me is for Monk to become more versatile, as that was always what appealed to me about them in theory but which I don't think the 5e class fully realises. Disengaging for one should be "free" (bonus action only, no Ki cost) so that skirmishing is an option.
The defensive options are the tricky area for me with Monk; in Baldur's Gate 3 one item I love is the Armour of Uninhibited Kushigo, which grants a reaction attack when an enemy misses you if you have Patient Defense active, and it works well in that game because it's not hard to get enemies to attack you while you're using Patient Defense. I could see this becoming a core feature of Monk, possibly combined with some way to encourage an enemy to attack you (e.g- disadvantage against others if you're nearby) so you can not only maximise its effectiveness, but also lose less potential damage by going defensive.
I basically want Monk to be a risky swiss army knife of options more geared towards mobility, control and adaptation rather than trying to compete on damage against the Fighter.
i agree with additional options and especially mobility and control. rather than compete with fighters, i'd rather see monks as strongly complimenting other warriors, increasing the survivability of others. resource points being spent to empower attacks with poison-like nerve pokes, daze away enemy bonus actions, siphon off enemy reaction actions, reduce AC on the next melee strike, tangle the feet of any enemy within 5ft, etc.
but to accomplish that, i also think there must be more free passive abilities: dismantle drunken monk and give all monks (who are not exhausted or dazed) always-on disengage and 'spend 5ft of movement to end prone condition' as a reaction. mobility needs to be innate.
I would have no problem with merging drunken monk and open hand monk into the base class. I also want to see monk as more the battle-field-control martial rather than just a Fighter that uses fists instead of weapons. I hope that's what the other players want as well, and I think it kind of is since Way of Shadow is in my anecdotal experience the most popular subclass despite being weakest when it comes to DPR but it gets some really fun and unique mechanics unlike all the rest.
people like shadow because it has a strong theme and synergy. Even with liking shadow's design, I still feel the baseline monk is too weak and poorly designed. My feedback on shadow was to the effect of, this is a nice sub option, but the base class isnt supporting it.
Also, sub classes are a good place for differentiation, I may be fine with shadow being weaker dps, and stronger battlefield control, but that doesnt mean thats what the whole class should focus on.
lastly, this is just a revision of the phb, they can't actually remove drunken monk from xanatars. They could alter it, in theory by putting it in the phb, or adding special notes somewhere in the phb, but removal, is basically only really possible for the 3 subclasses in the old phb, as per their stated goals.
don't have to remove it if they don't revise it. same with astral monk: if they steal features for base class without adding new ones to the subclass then it'll just be weaker than the other subclasses. in other words, it would be legacy for roleplay purposes.
I think your poll should probably have been less specific and more general; I voted for "interrupt + neck pinch" option as they're both fun ideas though not necessarily exactly what I want to see. More generally I want to see a Monk's basic toolkit include more free options either initially or later so they have a core set of options to choose from round to round, and to gain more Ki-based abilities as standard.
Basically the goal for me is for Monk to become more versatile, as that was always what appealed to me about them in theory but which I don't think the 5e class fully realises. Disengaging for one should be "free" (bonus action only, no Ki cost) so that skirmishing is an option.
The defensive options are the tricky area for me with Monk; in Baldur's Gate 3 one item I love is the Armour of Uninhibited Kushigo, which grants a reaction attack when an enemy misses you if you have Patient Defense active, and it works well in that game because it's not hard to get enemies to attack you while you're using Patient Defense. I could see this becoming a core feature of Monk, possibly combined with some way to encourage an enemy to attack you (e.g- disadvantage against others if you're nearby) so you can not only maximise its effectiveness, but also lose less potential damage by going defensive.
I basically want Monk to be a risky swiss army knife of options more geared towards mobility, control and adaptation rather than trying to compete on damage against the Fighter.
i agree with additional options and especially mobility and control. rather than compete with fighters, i'd rather see monks as strongly complimenting other warriors, increasing the survivability of others. resource points being spent to empower attacks with poison-like nerve pokes, daze away enemy bonus actions, siphon off enemy reaction actions, reduce AC on the next melee strike, tangle the feet of any enemy within 5ft, etc.
but to accomplish that, i also think there must be more free passive abilities: dismantle drunken monk and give all monks (who are not exhausted or dazed) always-on disengage and 'spend 5ft of movement to end prone condition' as a reaction. mobility needs to be innate.
I'm in favor of the concept in general of taking some subclasses and just making their features inherent to the base class. I think you could pull most of the features from both Drunken Master and Open Hand and just make them core features, and you'd be just fine.
i had been (quietly) opposed to cannibalizing subclasses, but this move strengthens the lore niche of monks being warriors with mystical overtones by removing the two least mystical. clearly there's going to be more warriors than just monk punching things, so no sense trying to claw that specialization back. go the other way, then. lets have more running across still water, dodging an attack by swapping places with a conveniently teleported log, and stapling a foe's shadow to the ground.
I wish I had remembered those stereotypical cool martial arts moves...lol.
I'll have to ask the young one's sensei when he's going to cover the log move. I really want to sit in for that... XD
i wish i could convince my spawn to take up martial arts. they could use the confidence and balance and muscle memory to roll when they fall. anyway, i don't have to go further and stretch my neck out here to say this, but i'm going to anyway...
Avatar the Last Air Bender, iconic martial arts super power show for kids, is nearly twenty years old. to some it's a classic and just what they picture when they think '5e monk.' and, luckily, there's an elemental subclass that pays tribute. Naruto the log-switching-with ninja, iconic martial arts super power show for kids, is older than twenty years. and it's what a lot of other people imagine when they think '5e monk.' but shadow subclass (the subclass for ninjas, one would assume) doesn't relate to that IP at all. not that it has to. but it is a broadly recognized IP with mystical martial arts at its core.
...just sayin, the further this class gets from Bruce Lee, the closer it's going to get to martial artists who fight alongside a puppet with strings made of unbreakable ki or summon toad minions or swap places instantly with a log. that's not my jam anymore, but i have a hard time saying that doesn't sound like a rich trade route to plunder. save it for the 3rd party folks to explore, right? okay, sure. but for many the thought is still there.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
Ah, formatting mistake for the first one. I meant the flame tongue shortsword would be better on a fighter. Cloak of displacement is really good, in general, but it overlaps with monk abilities. Monk needs items like fighter has to boost AC and attack damage rolls without attunement.
So what? Why is "oh well this one other class could use this better than you" mean "you can never ever have this magic item"? It is still a good item that benefits the monk, so why in the Nine Hells wouldn't a monk get to have one?
95% of magic items can be used by anyone, why would that mean that nobody gets to have any of them? A +1 dagger can be use by anyone so I guess that means fighters don't have any good magic items. Actually you know what Fighters, Barbarians and Rogues don't have any unique items that only they can use at all! 0, nothing, nada! Absolutely no items designed specifically for them. So I guess that means they suck b/c they don't have any magic items at all right? I mean every item that a Barbarian can use could be used better by a fighter too, so I guess they are crippled by having no magic items right? -> yeah! you know prove to me that Barbarian have any magic items at all! Because everything is attunement or better used by a fighter!
Also: No, a flametongue shortsword would not be better on a fighter because a Dex-based fighter is mainly using bows, and a Str fighter will want a heavy weapon.
Monk needs items like fighter has to boost AC and attack damage rolls without attunement.
That is literally what a flametongue shortsword does! It gives them +2d6 damage on their main attacks without requiring attunement. That works out better than a set of +1 gloves.
Edit to add:
Actually you know what? Rangers, Paladins, Rogues, and Barbarians are all worse for magic items than the Monk is because a Fighter would be better using at every single magic item they could use than they are.
rangers and paladins have spells .rogues are experts and barb would be using a 2 hander
It use to be flurry of misses when it was free. Let’s not leave out the details. Making FoB free while leaving PD and SotW having the same cost as Stunning Strike breaks the Monk even more. It puts you in a position were it looks like your job is to keep punching and using stunning strike defense be dayumed.
at low level with no equipment and not set up . this doesn't mean it cant be used . also if you want to leave out details fighter didn't lose the extra attacks monk did in the transition to 5e. also the negative bonus to hit eventually disappeared at high level
I think your poll should probably have been less specific and more general; I voted for "interrupt + neck pinch" option as they're both fun ideas though not necessarily exactly what I want to see. More generally I want to see a Monk's basic toolkit include more free options either initially or later so they have a core set of options to choose from round to round, and to gain more Ki-based abilities as standard.
Basically the goal for me is for Monk to become more versatile, as that was always what appealed to me about them in theory but which I don't think the 5e class fully realises. Disengaging for one should be "free" (bonus action only, no Ki cost) so that skirmishing is an option.
The defensive options are the tricky area for me with Monk; in Baldur's Gate 3 one item I love is the Armour of Uninhibited Kushigo, which grants a reaction attack when an enemy misses you if you have Patient Defense active, and it works well in that game because it's not hard to get enemies to attack you while you're using Patient Defense. I could see this becoming a core feature of Monk, possibly combined with some way to encourage an enemy to attack you (e.g- disadvantage against others if you're nearby) so you can not only maximise its effectiveness, but also lose less potential damage by going defensive.
I basically want Monk to be a risky swiss army knife of options more geared towards mobility, control and adaptation rather than trying to compete on damage against the Fighter.
and I want to be a master martial artist who can properly compete with fighter while having to use a resource to do so as it should be .the fact that fighter can do more damage without using a resource is cray. the low damage isn't ok imo. though I do hope they enable options so you can play your suboptimal damage control monk and I can play my dpr monk who is more about damage and distraction.
Ah, formatting mistake for the first one. I meant the flame tongue shortsword would be better on a fighter. Cloak of displacement is really good, in general, but it overlaps with monk abilities. Monk needs items like fighter has to boost AC and attack damage rolls without attunement.
So what? Why is "oh well this one other class could use this better than you" mean "you can never ever have this magic item"? It is still a good item that benefits the monk, so why in the Nine Hells wouldn't a monk get to have one?
95% of magic items can be used by anyone, why would that mean that nobody gets to have any of them? A +1 dagger can be use by anyone so I guess that means fighters don't have any good magic items. Actually you know what Fighters, Barbarians and Rogues don't have any unique items that only they can use at all! 0, nothing, nada! Absolutely no items designed specifically for them. So I guess that means they suck b/c they don't have any magic items at all right? I mean every item that a Barbarian can use could be used better by a fighter too, so I guess they are crippled by having no magic items right? -> yeah! you know prove to me that Barbarian have any magic items at all! Because everything is attunement or better used by a fighter!
Also: No, a flametongue shortsword would not be better on a fighter because a Dex-based fighter is mainly using bows, and a Str fighter will want a heavy weapon.
Monk needs items like fighter has to boost AC and attack damage rolls without attunement.
That is literally what a flametongue shortsword does! It gives them +2d6 damage on their main attacks without requiring attunement. That works out better than a set of +1 gloves.
Edit to add:
Actually you know what? Rangers, Paladins, Rogues, and Barbarians are all worse for magic items than the Monk is because a Fighter would be better using at every single magic item they could use than they are.
It use to be flurry of misses when it was free. Let’s not leave out the details. Making FoB free while leaving PD and SotW having the same cost as Stunning Strike breaks the Monk even more. It puts you in a position were it looks like your job is to keep punching and using stunning strike defense be dayumed.
at low level with no equipment and not set up . this doesn't mean it cant be used . also if you want to leave out details fighter didn't lose the extra attacks monk did in the transition to 5e. also the negative bonus to hit eventually disappeared at high level
3e and 3.5 monks were was trash. Flurry of Misses, More MAD than 5e, it required a very specific build in a time were you could not just get online and find the perfect build as easily as you can now. Technically in 5e both an monk and a fighter have 4 attacks, but the monk has to pay for it but gets it starting at level 5. 15 levels before the fighter can attack 4 times. Also thinking you can fix the 5e monk with more attacks short sighted. Unconscious things don’t get to attack.
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that would be sick . trying to be patient on next ua cause its going to be a bit.
If we are going by what is said in the UA 7 video, monk may get Perfect Self at level 5 like sorcerer get Sorcerous Restoration at level 5. Not sure the Heightened Metabolism will remain. If it remain, the ki points issues will be resolved…..
that alone wouldn't resolve it.
I think your poll should probably have been less specific and more general; I voted for "interrupt + neck pinch" option as they're both fun ideas though not necessarily exactly what I want to see. More generally I want to see a Monk's basic toolkit include more free options either initially or later so they have a core set of options to choose from round to round, and to gain more Ki-based abilities as standard.
Basically the goal for me is for Monk to become more versatile, as that was always what appealed to me about them in theory but which I don't think the 5e class fully realises. Disengaging for one should be "free" (bonus action only, no Ki cost) so that skirmishing is an option.
The defensive options are the tricky area for me with Monk; in Baldur's Gate 3 one item I love is the Armour of Uninhibited Kushigo, which grants a reaction attack when an enemy misses you if you have Patient Defense active, and it works well in that game because it's not hard to get enemies to attack you while you're using Patient Defense. I could see this becoming a core feature of Monk, possibly combined with some way to encourage an enemy to attack you (e.g- disadvantage against others if you're nearby) so you can not only maximise its effectiveness, but also lose less potential damage by going defensive.
I basically want Monk to be a risky swiss army knife of options more geared towards mobility, control and adaptation rather than trying to compete on damage against the Fighter.
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i agree with additional options and especially mobility and control. rather than compete with fighters, i'd rather see monks as strongly complimenting other warriors, increasing the survivability of others. resource points being spent to empower attacks with poison-like nerve pokes, daze away enemy bonus actions, siphon off enemy reaction actions, reduce AC on the next melee strike, tangle the feet of any enemy within 5ft, etc.
but to accomplish that, i also think there must be more free passive abilities: dismantle drunken monk and give all monks (who are not exhausted or dazed) always-on disengage and 'spend 5ft of movement to end prone condition' as a reaction. mobility needs to be innate.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
I'm in favor of the concept in general of taking some subclasses and just making their features inherent to the base class. I think you could pull most of the features from both Drunken Master and Open Hand and just make them core features, and you'd be just fine.
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i had been (quietly) opposed to cannibalizing subclasses, but this move strengthens the lore niche of monks being warriors with mystical overtones by removing the two least mystical. clearly there's going to be more warriors than just monk punching things, so no sense trying to claw that specialization back. go the other way, then. lets have more running across still water, dodging an attack by swapping places with a conveniently teleported log, and stapling a foe's shadow to the ground.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
I wish I had remembered those stereotypical cool martial arts moves...lol.
I'll have to ask the young one's sensei when he's going to cover the log move. I really want to sit in for that... XD
I would have no problem with merging drunken monk and open hand monk into the base class. I also want to see monk as more the battle-field-control martial rather than just a Fighter that uses fists instead of weapons. I hope that's what the other players want as well, and I think it kind of is since Way of Shadow is in my anecdotal experience the most popular subclass despite being weakest when it comes to DPR but it gets some really fun and unique mechanics unlike all the rest.
people like shadow because it has a strong theme and synergy. Even with liking shadow's design, I still feel the baseline monk is too weak and poorly designed. My feedback on shadow was to the effect of, this is a nice sub option, but the base class isnt supporting it.
Also, sub classes are a good place for differentiation, I may be fine with shadow being weaker dps, and stronger battlefield control, but that doesnt mean thats what the whole class should focus on.
lastly, this is just a revision of the phb, they can't actually remove drunken monk from xanatars. They could alter it, in theory by putting it in the phb, or adding special notes somewhere in the phb, but removal, is basically only really possible for the 3 subclasses in the old phb, as per their stated goals.
They are already stealing features from Astral Self, so they could still steal features from Drunken Master.
I haven't worked out all the levels I'd like to see this happen in, but I do have some things I've been working on.
Martial Arts. Now with three flavors for its Bonus Action.
Ki. Now with three flavorful enhancements.
Stunning Strikes. Building off the ideas from Cunning Strikes.
Wholeness of Body. Because the optional rule Quickened Healing is weak. I'm leaning towards either a pool of Martial Arts Dice or spending Ki to roll hit dice and add their Wisdom modifier to the total. I don't know which is better, but some self-healing would go a long way.
FYI, Dodge already provides Adv on DEX saves.
Both of those are worse than the current Wholeness of Body, which is ~40% of your max HP back 1/LR at the cost of only 1 action.
don't have to remove it if they don't revise it. same with astral monk: if they steal features for base class without adding new ones to the subclass then it'll just be weaker than the other subclasses. in other words, it would be legacy for roleplay purposes.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
i wish i could convince my spawn to take up martial arts. they could use the confidence and balance and muscle memory to roll when they fall. anyway, i don't have to go further and stretch my neck out here to say this, but i'm going to anyway...
Avatar the Last Air Bender, iconic martial arts super power show for kids, is nearly twenty years old. to some it's a classic and just what they picture when they think '5e monk.' and, luckily, there's an elemental subclass that pays tribute. Naruto the log-switching-with ninja, iconic martial arts super power show for kids, is older than twenty years. and it's what a lot of other people imagine when they think '5e monk.' but shadow subclass (the subclass for ninjas, one would assume) doesn't relate to that IP at all. not that it has to. but it is a broadly recognized IP with mystical martial arts at its core.
...just sayin, the further this class gets from Bruce Lee, the closer it's going to get to martial artists who fight alongside a puppet with strings made of unbreakable ki or summon toad minions or swap places instantly with a log. that's not my jam anymore, but i have a hard time saying that doesn't sound like a rich trade route to plunder. save it for the 3rd party folks to explore, right? okay, sure. but for many the thought is still there.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
rangers and paladins have spells .rogues are experts and barb would be using a 2 hander
at low level with no equipment and not set up . this doesn't mean it cant be used . also if you want to leave out details fighter didn't lose the extra attacks monk did in the transition to 5e. also the negative bonus to hit eventually disappeared at high level
and I want to be a master martial artist who can properly compete with fighter while having to use a resource to do so as it should be .the fact that fighter can do more damage without using a resource is cray. the low damage isn't ok imo. though I do hope they enable options so you can play your suboptimal damage control monk and I can play my dpr monk who is more about damage and distraction.
There are DEX-based melee fighters.
3e and 3.5 monks were was trash. Flurry of Misses, More MAD than 5e, it required a very specific build in a time were you could not just get online and find the perfect build as easily as you can now. Technically in 5e both an monk and a fighter have 4 attacks, but the monk has to pay for it but gets it starting at level 5. 15 levels before the fighter can attack 4 times. Also thinking you can fix the 5e monk with more attacks short sighted. Unconscious things don’t get to attack.