His idea of casting BB for the first attack and then DW, I am pretty sure also does not work. In order to qualify for the DW attack, he has to use the attack action on his turn with a light weapon. BB is the cast a spell action. He MAY be able to scimitar attack, BB with warmagic then bonus action shadowblade. I'm also not convinced that he'd be able to swing the shadowblade twice regardless. I was under the impression that nick freed up the bonus action attack, but not let you swing the offhand weapon twice.
There's no way they'd allow you to swing your offhander that many times. DW would blow every other melee style out of the water if they allowed that.
LIGHT When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage, unless that modifier is negative. For example, if you take the Attack action on your turn and have a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other—each of which has the Light property—you can make one attack with each weapon, using your action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action, unless that modifier is negative.
there is no such thing as an off hander in 5e. there is just two weapons. you can attack with whatever weapon you want for any attack other than the free attack or BA attack(which requires it be a different weapon for that attack). A fighter can use whichever hand he wants. There is no designiation in 5e of main hand and offhand.
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.
Nick weapon rules allows you to make a free attack with a light weapon as part of your Attack action. It also doesnt say on hit or anything, so it probably doesnt matter what the order is, but i make it first just to meet that possible req.
BB is not the cast a spell action for bladesingers, they can replace any attack in their attack action with a cantrip. And that cantrip specifically tells you to make a melee attack with the weapon you brandished in the spell, it is a melee attack.
extra attack; level 6 bladesinger feature
Starting at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks.
you are really reaching hard to find a way that this doesnt work, when its definitely the intent of all of these changes that it be the case.
the whole point of the nick property is to free up the BA for other uses, when using light weapons. The whole point of the bladesinger cantrip replace is to insert cantrips into your attacks, and specifically these cantrips, as they were published in the same book bladesinging came out in, with the purpose of making melee mages more viable.
this is all totally inline with the design goals of bladesinger, light weapons changes, and nick.
lastly dual wielder is generally underpowered, and swinging your either weapon 2 times is not special. thats the normal usecase of dual wielding, and can also be done via PAM.
BB is not the cast a spell action for bladesingers, they can replace any attack in their attack action with a cantrip.
No they can't. The exact wording is
You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks.
One of those attacks means the two attacks from the first sentence. It cannot be applied to an attack granted by another ability.
I haven't followed much of what is being said, but if you are wondering if a bladesinger can do his extra attack feature, replace one of his attacks with BB, and attack again with a weapon he has in his other hand (extra attack, bb, and DW), the answer is yes.
Bladesinger extra attack You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Furthermore, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks.
You are taking the attack action, then you qualify for DW. A different case would be if you were using the casting spell action for BB. But in this case it is not like that.
I have a suspicion that this is not the intention of the feature, but RAW you can do it. And it is not clear that RAI cannot. In fact it is not clear at all. So you can do it without any buts..
I haven't followed much of what is being said, but if you are wondering if a bladesinger can do his extra attack feature, replace one of his attacks with BB, and attack again with a weapon he has in his other hand (extra attack, bb, and DW), the answer is yes.
Yes, but because shadow blade lacks the Nick property, using it to make an offhand attack requires a bonus action. Thus, if you want to keep your bonus action, your choices are
2x shadow blade, 1x weapon with nick.
1x shadow blade, 1x booming blade (with your weapon with nick), 1x weapon with nick.
As a result, your highest damage option is actually to entirely ignore shadow blade, use two normal weapons, and cast spirit shroud.
I haven't followed much of what is being said, but if you are wondering if a bladesinger can do his extra attack feature, replace one of his attacks with BB, and attack again with a weapon he has in his other hand (extra attack, bb, and DW), the answer is yes.
Yes, but because shadow blade lacks the Nick property, using it to make an offhand attack requires a bonus action. Thus, if you want to keep your bonus action, your choices are
2x shadow blade, 1x weapon with nick.
1x shadow blade, 1x booming blade (with your weapon with nick), 1x weapon with nick.
As a result, your highest damage option is actually to entirely ignore shadow blade, use two normal weapons, and cast spirit shroud.
Ahh, the plot thickens. Well, joking aside, what you state in your post is correct.
His idea of casting BB for the first attack and then DW, I am pretty sure also does not work. In order to qualify for the DW attack, he has to use the attack action on his turn with a light weapon. BB is the cast a spell action. He MAY be able to scimitar attack, BB with warmagic then bonus action shadowblade. I'm also not convinced that he'd be able to swing the shadowblade twice regardless. I was under the impression that nick freed up the bonus action attack, but not let you swing the offhand weapon twice.
There's no way they'd allow you to swing your offhander that many times. DW would blow every other melee style out of the water if they allowed that.
LIGHT When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage, unless that modifier is negative. For example, if you take the Attack action on your turn and have a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other—each of which has the Light property—you can make one attack with each weapon, using your action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action, unless that modifier is negative.
there is no such thing as an off hander in 5e. there is just two weapons. you can attack with whatever weapon you want for any attack other than the free attack or BA attack(which requires it be a different weapon for that attack). A fighter can use whichever hand he wants. There is no designiation in 5e of main hand and offhand.
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.
Nick weapon rules allows you to make a free attack with a light weapon as part of your Attack action. It also doesnt say on hit or anything, so it probably doesnt matter what the order is, but i make it first just to meet that possible req.
BB is not the cast a spell action for bladesingers, they can replace any attack in their attack action with a cantrip. And that cantrip specifically tells you to make a melee attack with the weapon you brandished in the spell, it is a melee attack.
extra attack; level 6 bladesinger feature
Starting at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks.
you are really reaching hard to find a way that this doesnt work, when its definitely the intent of all of these changes that it be the case.
the whole point of the nick property is to free up the BA for other uses, when using light weapons. The whole point of the bladesinger cantrip replace is to insert cantrips into your attacks, and specifically these cantrips, as they were published in the same book bladesinging came out in, with the purpose of making melee mages more viable.
this is all totally inline with the design goals of bladesinger, light weapons changes, and nick.
lastly dual wielder is generally underpowered, and swinging your either weapon 2 times is not special. thats the normal usecase of dual wielding, and can also be done via PAM.
PAM: d10x2 +d4
Vanilla twf (no DW feat) d6x3
5e DW d8x3
5e onednd DW d8x2+d6x1
5e onednd DW with flex d10x2+d6x1
Nick doesn't let you swing the second (since you object to the use of offhand for some reason) weapon twice. As you posted the feature:
Nick.
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.
You don't get to make a bonus action attack as well. War magic lets you cast a cantrip when you use the attack action. RAW you don't get to use shadowblade to cast BB/GFB. Booming blade states:
You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you. On a hit, the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects and then becomes sheathed in booming energy until the start of your next turn. If the target willingly moves 5 feet or more before then, the target takes 1d8 thunder damage, and the spell ends.
This spell’s damage increases when you reach certain levels. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 thunder damage to the target on a hit, and the damage the target takes for moving increases to 2d8. Both damage rolls increase by 1d8 at 11th level (2d8 and 3d8) and again at 17th level (3d8 and 4d8).
* - (a melee weapon worth at least 1 sp)
Since you MUST use the weapon worth 1sp as part of the attack, you cannot use the shadowblade for booming/greenflame blade. So, you must use the scimitar again OR shadowblade, but not both. So, the second attack of your attack action can either be with the scimitar and greenflame blade OR with the shadowblade. You can't mix them. Then there's the last attack, the freebie. It can either be as part of the action using a second scimitar OR it can be with the shadowblade using your bonus action.
I'm not at all reaching to find a way that this doesn't work. At the heart of this, you cannot do greenflame blade with the shadowblade as written.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
BB is not the cast a spell action for bladesingers, they can replace any attack in their attack action with a cantrip.
No they can't. The exact wording is
You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks.
One of those attacks means the two attacks from the first sentence. It cannot be applied to an attack granted by another ability.
it doesnt matter.
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn.
1st attack, cantrip replaces attack, the cantrip requires me to make a melee attack Did i take they attack action on that turn? yes. have i attacked with a light weapon? Yes. i can now make a BA/free attack with another weapon at any point during my turn. Note that the extra cantrip feature specifically requires that i take the attack action to utilize it.
2nd attack free attack shadowblade
3rd attack Extra attack shadowblade.
note it does not matter at what point you attacked with light weapon. you dont have to do it as the first attack, as long as any attack within your attack action was a light attack, you can make a BA light attack.
This wouldnt work if the cantrip didnt require you to make a melee attack with a weapon, but it does.
this is RAW and RAI, as they specifically said the purpose of nick is to allow you to attack while still having access to your BA. The purpose of Light weapon rules, is to be able to attack with two different light weapons in one turn. The purpose of Bladesinging feat is to allow you to replace an attack.
also:, the bladesinger rule says you can replace an attack from your attack action with cantrip. the two attacks is a seperate sentence with a period. Those attacks refers to attacks in the attack action. Are you implying that a fighter/bladesinger would have to callout which of their extra attacks are from bladesinging and which are from fighter? Or maybe, they can only make 2 attacks if they want to use bladesinging feat. thats a bit ridiculous.
And all that said, it doesnt really even matter because the DPS of shadow blade, and the DPS of a +2 weapons with haste (an extra attack) are still similar. So i it doesnt really change the power level of Bladesinger. even if they dont go the shadowblade route. they still got 65-80 damage via main action, and 30-40 via BA action. its still one of the better dps of any martial classes.
Nick doesn't let you swing the second (since you object to the use of offhand for some reason) weapon twice. As you posted the feature:
Nick.
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.
You don't get to make a bonus action attack as well. War magic lets you cast a cantrip when you use the attack action. RAW you don't get to use shadowblade to cast BB/GFB. Booming blade states:
You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you. On a hit, the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects and then becomes sheathed in booming energy until the start of your next turn. If the target willingly moves 5 feet or more before then, the target takes 1d8 thunder damage, and the spell ends.
This spell’s damage increases when you reach certain levels. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 thunder damage to the target on a hit, and the damage the target takes for moving increases to 2d8. Both damage rolls increase by 1d8 at 11th level (2d8 and 3d8) and again at 17th level (3d8 and 4d8).
* - (a melee weapon worth at least 1 sp)
Since you MUST use the weapon worth 1sp as part of the attack, you cannot use the shadowblade for booming/greenflame blade. So, you must use the scimitar again OR shadowblade, but not both. So, the second attack of your attack action can either be with the scimitar and greenflame blade OR with the shadowblade. You can't mix them. Then there's the last attack, the freebie. It can either be as part of the action using a second scimitar OR it can be with the shadowblade using your bonus action.
I'm not at all reaching to find a way that this doesn't work. At the heart of this, you cannot do greenflame blade with the shadowblade as written.
i am not saying you can do shadowblade with green flame blade.
i am saying you can do two shadow blade attacks, and one non shadowblade attack with greenflame/booming blade.
and it doesnt need to be part of your BA if you have the NICK property.
take the attack action:
Scimitar booming blade, light weapon with nick property. i can now make an attack with a different weapon as free action as part of the attack action. So shadow blade. The last attack is Shadow blade from extra attack which could be from any weapon, even a new weapon.
also:, the bladesinger rule says you can replace an attack from your attack action with cantrip. the two attacks is a seperate sentence with a period. Those attacks refers to attacks in the attack action. Are you implying that a fighter/bladesinger would have to callout which of their extra attacks are from bladesinging and which are from fighter? Or maybe, they can only make 2 attacks if they want to use bladesinging feat.
Technically yes, the fighter would have to call out which of their extra attacks are from bladesinger, though it will never make any difference so it can be ignored. An offhand attack does make a difference so you have to start paying attention.
His idea of casting BB for the first attack and then DW, I am pretty sure also does not work. In order to qualify for the DW attack, he has to use the attack action on his turn with a light weapon. BB is the cast a spell action. He MAY be able to scimitar attack, BB with warmagic then bonus action shadowblade. I'm also not convinced that he'd be able to swing the shadowblade twice regardless. I was under the impression that nick freed up the bonus action attack, but not let you swing the offhand weapon twice.
There's no way they'd allow you to swing your offhander that many times. DW would blow every other melee style out of the water if they allowed that.
LIGHT When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage, unless that modifier is negative. For example, if you take the Attack action on your turn and have a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other—each of which has the Light property—you can make one attack with each weapon, using your action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action, unless that modifier is negative.
there is no such thing as an off hander in 5e. there is just two weapons. you can attack with whatever weapon you want for any attack other than the free attack or BA attack(which requires it be a different weapon for that attack). A fighter can use whichever hand he wants. There is no designiation in 5e of main hand and offhand.
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.
Nick weapon rules allows you to make a free attack with a light weapon as part of your Attack action. It also doesnt say on hit or anything, so it probably doesnt matter what the order is, but i make it first just to meet that possible req.
BB is not the cast a spell action for bladesingers, they can replace any attack in their attack action with a cantrip. And that cantrip specifically tells you to make a melee attack with the weapon you brandished in the spell, it is a melee attack.
extra attack; level 6 bladesinger feature
Starting at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks.
you are really reaching hard to find a way that this doesnt work, when its definitely the intent of all of these changes that it be the case.
the whole point of the nick property is to free up the BA for other uses, when using light weapons. The whole point of the bladesinger cantrip replace is to insert cantrips into your attacks, and specifically these cantrips, as they were published in the same book bladesinging came out in, with the purpose of making melee mages more viable.
this is all totally inline with the design goals of bladesinger, light weapons changes, and nick.
lastly dual wielder is generally underpowered, and swinging your either weapon 2 times is not special. thats the normal usecase of dual wielding, and can also be done via PAM.
PAM: d10x2 +d4
Vanilla twf (no DW feat) d6x3
5e DW d8x3
5e onednd DW d8x2+d6x1
5e onednd DW with flex d10x2+d6x1
Nick doesn't let you swing the second (since you object to the use of offhand for some reason) weapon twice. As you posted the feature:
Nick.
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn.
You don't get to make a bonus action attack as well. War magic lets you cast a cantrip when you use the attack action. RAW you don't get to use shadowblade to cast BB/GFB. Booming blade states:
You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you. On a hit, the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects and then becomes sheathed in booming energy until the start of your next turn. If the target willingly moves 5 feet or more before then, the target takes 1d8 thunder damage, and the spell ends.
This spell’s damage increases when you reach certain levels. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 thunder damage to the target on a hit, and the damage the target takes for moving increases to 2d8. Both damage rolls increase by 1d8 at 11th level (2d8 and 3d8) and again at 17th level (3d8 and 4d8).
* - (a melee weapon worth at least 1 sp)
Since you MUST use the weapon worth 1sp as part of the attack, you cannot use the shadowblade for booming/greenflame blade. So, you must use the scimitar again OR shadowblade, but not both. So, the second attack of your attack action can either be with the scimitar and greenflame blade OR with the shadowblade. You can't mix them. Then there's the last attack, the freebie. It can either be as part of the action using a second scimitar OR it can be with the shadowblade using your bonus action.
I'm not at all reaching to find a way that this doesn't work. At the heart of this, you cannot do greenflame blade with the shadowblade as written.
i am not saying you can do shadowblade with green flame blade.
i am saying you can do two shadow blade attacks, and one non shadowblade attack with greenflame/booming blade.
and it doesnt need to be part of your BA if you have the NICK property.
take the attack action:
Scimitar booming blade, light weapon with nick property. i can now make an attack with a different weapon as free action as part of the attack action. So shadow blade. The last attack is Shadow blade from extra attack which could be from any weapon, even a new weapon.
They should definitely make it clear which of the light weapons needs the nick property to qualify. I read it as the weapon used for the extra attack requires nick. This would make your move illegal. But it works when interpreting it as the weapon from the initial attack requiring nick. Other possibilities would be any or both must have nick.
my reading on nick, irrespective of the other debates, is any weapon. It essentially reads as while you have a weapon with this mastery unlocked, you can make the BA attack as free action.
Which is better because it doesnt require the players or DM to be hyperfocused on which attack/weapon. Which is generally pointless
my reading on nick, irrespective of the other debates, is any weapon. It essentially reads as while you have a weapon with this mastery unlocked, you can make the BA attack as free action.
You can use the weapon with nick to make the BA attack as part of your regular attack. If you use any other weapon to make the extra attack, it requires a bonus action.
my reading on nick, irrespective of the other debates, is any weapon. It essentially reads as while you have a weapon with this mastery unlocked, you can make the BA attack as free action.
You can use the weapon with nick to make the BA attack as part of your regular attack. If you use any other weapon to make the extra attack, it requires a bonus action.
Thats your opinion, however;
there is nothing in the wording of nick to suggest that.
other masteries use 'with this weapon' to denote that. Nick specifically avoids that. If it was the intent it would say,
cleave 'If you hit a creature with a melee attack using this weapon'
graze 'If your attack roll with this weapon misses a'
push "If you hit a creature with this weapon,"
etc for all other masteries. Nick just says
"When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn."
if they wanted it as you say, it would be, when you make an extra attack of the light property with this weapon.
nick is giving you a passive ability, not an active one. You have to have the nick item equipped while you make the extra attack, thats the only requirement. the order is irrelevant
I will note, there is another take, not mine that it has to be the first attack, because they say hitting with the weapon should activate the ability.
I think they went out of their way to word it this way so order wouldn't matter, but people insert their perception of how the other masteries work on nick.
Either way, no where in its text does it mention on attack, or attacking with this weapon.
So just strap the scimitar to your back and use a shortsword for vex too, right?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
So just strap the scimitar to your back and use a shortsword for vex too, right?
strapping a sword to your back doesnt count as equipping it in dnd 5e.
the rule doesnt say , when you attack with this weapon you can make a free action attack with another, it doesnt say when you make an extra attack with this weapon. the argument for one or the other is equal. (in that the player is adding words to make it work how they think its supposed to work)
however, the argument for it being a passive effect actually follows the words it does say, and doesnt require the player to insert new rules.
really why would they go out of their way to define the attack on every other mastery, but not on nick. I doubt that was an error.
if it is, then they need to change the wording of nick before publication.
All mastery abilities are specific to using the weapon with the mastery. They should change the wording of nick, I'm sure they hadn't considered that someone would read it the way you do.
All mastery abilities are specific to using the weapon with the mastery. They should change the wording of nick, I'm sure they hadn't considered that someone would read it the way you do.
no, all other masteries specifically name when and how they are applied. Its not a native rule of mastery that they apply when using the weapon.The other ones work that way because they say in their rules it works that way.
they considered it for every other mastery, but not for this one? why
and as I said, even if you believe that, many people interpreted nick the exact opposite of you (people who believe it implies active use) And they said once you attack with nick weapon, you can make BA attack as an extra attack. IE you couldn't apply it to the bonus attack. I have actually seen that interpretation more than yours, that it applies to the extra attack itself.
even if you believe mastery is active and you must make an attack for it to work, there are two interpretations, that exclude using it the other way, both require you to add words to the rule that aren't actually there.
mastery isnt just developed for these current masteries, they never defined masteries as being an on hit effect, because they wouldn't limit themselves to that. Its totally possible a future mastery could be like : when an enemy hits you, you can do x as a reaction. They always write the rules into the feature, they never have you assume anything. Why do you think they would start now, for one feature, but none of the others?
you are bending your reading of the rules to an expectation they never said or committed to.
Just a note about shadow blade. The most interesting thing about this spell is that it allows you to attack with advantage in dimlight or darkness. So, in certain scenarios, shadow blade is a great option for bladesingers.
there is no such thing as an off hander in 5e. there is just two weapons. you can attack with whatever weapon you want for any attack other than the free attack or BA attack(which requires it be a different weapon for that attack). A fighter can use whichever hand he wants. There is no designiation in 5e of main hand and offhand.
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/129803/can-you-attack-with-different-weapons-using-extra-attack
Nick weapon rules allows you to make a free attack with a light weapon as part of your Attack action. It also doesnt say on hit or anything, so it probably doesnt matter what the order is, but i make it first just to meet that possible req.
BB is not the cast a spell action for bladesingers, they can replace any attack in their attack action with a cantrip. And that cantrip specifically tells you to make a melee attack with the weapon you brandished in the spell, it is a melee attack.
you are really reaching hard to find a way that this doesnt work, when its definitely the intent of all of these changes that it be the case.
the whole point of the nick property is to free up the BA for other uses, when using light weapons. The whole point of the bladesinger cantrip replace is to insert cantrips into your attacks, and specifically these cantrips, as they were published in the same book bladesinging came out in, with the purpose of making melee mages more viable.
this is all totally inline with the design goals of bladesinger, light weapons changes, and nick.
lastly dual wielder is generally underpowered, and swinging your either weapon 2 times is not special. thats the normal usecase of dual wielding, and can also be done via PAM.
PAM: d10x2 +d4
Vanilla twf (no DW feat) d6x3
5e DW d8x3
5e onednd DW d8x2+d6x1
5e onednd DW with flex d10x2+d6x1
No they can't. The exact wording is
One of those attacks means the two attacks from the first sentence. It cannot be applied to an attack granted by another ability.
I haven't followed much of what is being said, but if you are wondering if a bladesinger can do his extra attack feature, replace one of his attacks with BB, and attack again with a weapon he has in his other hand (extra attack, bb, and DW), the answer is yes.
Bladesinger extra attack
You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Furthermore, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks.
You are taking the attack action, then you qualify for DW. A different case would be if you were using the casting spell action for BB. But in this case it is not like that.
I have a suspicion that this is not the intention of the feature, but RAW you can do it. And it is not clear that RAI cannot. In fact it is not clear at all. So you can do it without any buts..
Yes, but because shadow blade lacks the Nick property, using it to make an offhand attack requires a bonus action. Thus, if you want to keep your bonus action, your choices are
As a result, your highest damage option is actually to entirely ignore shadow blade, use two normal weapons, and cast spirit shroud.
Ahh, the plot thickens. Well, joking aside, what you state in your post is correct.
Nick doesn't let you swing the second (since you object to the use of offhand for some reason) weapon twice. As you posted the feature:
Nick.
When you make the extra attack of the Light
property, you can make it as part of the Attack
action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still
make this extra attack only once per turn.
You don't get to make a bonus action attack as well. War magic lets you cast a cantrip when you use the attack action. RAW you don't get to use shadowblade to cast BB/GFB. Booming blade states:
You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you. On a hit, the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects and then becomes sheathed in booming energy until the start of your next turn. If the target willingly moves 5 feet or more before then, the target takes 1d8 thunder damage, and the spell ends.
This spell’s damage increases when you reach certain levels. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 thunder damage to the target on a hit, and the damage the target takes for moving increases to 2d8. Both damage rolls increase by 1d8 at 11th level (2d8 and 3d8) and again at 17th level (3d8 and 4d8).
* - (a melee weapon worth at least 1 sp)
Since you MUST use the weapon worth 1sp as part of the attack, you cannot use the shadowblade for booming/greenflame blade. So, you must use the scimitar again OR shadowblade, but not both. So, the second attack of your attack action can either be with the scimitar and greenflame blade OR with the shadowblade. You can't mix them. Then there's the last attack, the freebie. It can either be as part of the action using a second scimitar OR it can be with the shadowblade using your bonus action.
I'm not at all reaching to find a way that this doesn't work. At the heart of this, you cannot do greenflame blade with the shadowblade as written.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
it doesnt matter.
1st attack, cantrip replaces attack, the cantrip requires me to make a melee attack Did i take they attack action on that turn? yes. have i attacked with a light weapon? Yes. i can now make a BA/free attack with another weapon at any point during my turn. Note that the extra cantrip feature specifically requires that i take the attack action to utilize it.
2nd attack free attack shadowblade
3rd attack Extra attack shadowblade.
note it does not matter at what point you attacked with light weapon. you dont have to do it as the first attack, as long as any attack within your attack action was a light attack, you can make a BA light attack.
This wouldnt work if the cantrip didnt require you to make a melee attack with a weapon, but it does.
this is RAW and RAI, as they specifically said the purpose of nick is to allow you to attack while still having access to your BA. The purpose of Light weapon rules, is to be able to attack with two different light weapons in one turn. The purpose of Bladesinging feat is to allow you to replace an attack.
also:, the bladesinger rule says you can replace an attack from your attack action with cantrip. the two attacks is a seperate sentence with a period. Those attacks refers to attacks in the attack action. Are you implying that a fighter/bladesinger would have to callout which of their extra attacks are from bladesinging and which are from fighter? Or maybe, they can only make 2 attacks if they want to use bladesinging feat. thats a bit ridiculous.
And all that said, it doesnt really even matter because the DPS of shadow blade, and the DPS of a +2 weapons with haste (an extra attack) are still similar. So i it doesnt really change the power level of Bladesinger. even if they dont go the shadowblade route. they still got 65-80 damage via main action, and 30-40 via BA action. its still one of the better dps of any martial classes.
i am not saying you can do shadowblade with green flame blade.
i am saying you can do two shadow blade attacks, and one non shadowblade attack with greenflame/booming blade.
and it doesnt need to be part of your BA if you have the NICK property.
take the attack action:
Scimitar booming blade, light weapon with nick property. i can now make an attack with a different weapon as free action as part of the attack action. So shadow blade. The last attack is Shadow blade from extra attack which could be from any weapon, even a new weapon.
Actually, I should confirm with varying level spell slots (E is the weapon's enchantment)
If you've got at least a +1 magic weapon, there doesn't seem to be a use case for shadow blade unless you are cheaping out with a level 2 spell slot.
Technically yes, the fighter would have to call out which of their extra attacks are from bladesinger, though it will never make any difference so it can be ignored. An offhand attack does make a difference so you have to start paying attention.
They should definitely make it clear which of the light weapons needs the nick property to qualify. I read it as the weapon used for the extra attack requires nick. This would make your move illegal. But it works when interpreting it as the weapon from the initial attack requiring nick. Other possibilities would be any or both must have nick.
my reading on nick, irrespective of the other debates, is any weapon. It essentially reads as while you have a weapon with this mastery unlocked, you can make the BA attack as free action.
Which is better because it doesnt require the players or DM to be hyperfocused on which attack/weapon. Which is generally pointless
You can use the weapon with nick to make the BA attack as part of your regular attack. If you use any other weapon to make the extra attack, it requires a bonus action.
Thats your opinion, however;
there is nothing in the wording of nick to suggest that.
other masteries use 'with this weapon' to denote that. Nick specifically avoids that. If it was the intent it would say,
cleave 'If you hit a creature with a melee attack using this weapon'
graze 'If your attack roll with this weapon misses a'
push "If you hit a creature with this weapon,"
etc for all other masteries. Nick just says
"When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action, instead of as a Bonus Action. You can still make this extra attack only once per turn."
if they wanted it as you say, it would be, when you make an extra attack of the light property with this weapon.
nick is giving you a passive ability, not an active one. You have to have the nick item equipped while you make the extra attack, thats the only requirement. the order is irrelevant
I will note, there is another take, not mine that it has to be the first attack, because they say hitting with the weapon should activate the ability.
I think they went out of their way to word it this way so order wouldn't matter, but people insert their perception of how the other masteries work on nick.
Either way, no where in its text does it mention on attack, or attacking with this weapon.
So just strap the scimitar to your back and use a shortsword for vex too, right?
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
strapping a sword to your back doesnt count as equipping it in dnd 5e.
the rule doesnt say , when you attack with this weapon you can make a free action attack with another, it doesnt say when you make an extra attack with this weapon. the argument for one or the other is equal. (in that the player is adding words to make it work how they think its supposed to work)
however, the argument for it being a passive effect actually follows the words it does say, and doesnt require the player to insert new rules.
really why would they go out of their way to define the attack on every other mastery, but not on nick. I doubt that was an error.
if it is, then they need to change the wording of nick before publication.
All mastery abilities are specific to using the weapon with the mastery. They should change the wording of nick, I'm sure they hadn't considered that someone would read it the way you do.
no, all other masteries specifically name when and how they are applied. Its not a native rule of mastery that they apply when using the weapon.The other ones work that way because they say in their rules it works that way.
they considered it for every other mastery, but not for this one? why
and as I said, even if you believe that, many people interpreted nick the exact opposite of you (people who believe it implies active use) And they said once you attack with nick weapon, you can make BA attack as an extra attack. IE you couldn't apply it to the bonus attack. I have actually seen that interpretation more than yours, that it applies to the extra attack itself.
even if you believe mastery is active and you must make an attack for it to work, there are two interpretations, that exclude using it the other way, both require you to add words to the rule that aren't actually there.
mastery isnt just developed for these current masteries, they never defined masteries as being an on hit effect, because they wouldn't limit themselves to that. Its totally possible a future mastery could be like : when an enemy hits you, you can do x as a reaction. They always write the rules into the feature, they never have you assume anything. Why do you think they would start now, for one feature, but none of the others?
you are bending your reading of the rules to an expectation they never said or committed to.
Just a note about shadow blade. The most interesting thing about this spell is that it allows you to attack with advantage in dimlight or darkness. So, in certain scenarios, shadow blade is a great option for bladesingers.
The next playtest sure seems to be taking some time. Can anyone remind me what 'day of the week' they used to release it?