I honestly like the lasers, i.e. the addition of weaponized moonlight and lunar defenses to a moon-themed subclass. I didn't really see the connection between moon and animals, and definitely not between moon and elementals, that we had before.
But the thing is - it was the name that didn't fit the theme, not the other way around. The druid has a shapeshifting feature which is core to the class, and the class was always supposed to have a subclass dedicated to emphasizing this feature, a dedicated shapeshifter subclass, it just makes sense. Some people want to shapeshift into really powerful creatures. But now there is no option to do so. You get weird unnatural magic laser pseudobeast form instead. Why? Because it is called "circle of the moon", duh.
Confirmed today, we're getting the next playtest packet this year and it will contain Barb, Druid and Monk.
And totally agreed on "elemental druid" being a different subclass.
I would love to see an elements druid. 1- the new sorcerer cantrip that is an elemental bolt, and the elementalism cantrip 2- elemental forms for wildshape 3- being able to pick the elemental energy type for flameblade 4- "chromatic orb" and "dragon's breath"
Every druid transforms, but Moon Druids uniquely specialize in transformation. They can transform into more and more powerful things than other druids.
"Changeable as the moon, a druid of this circle might prowl as a great cat one night, soar over the treetops as an eagle the next day, and crash through the undergrowth in bear form to drive off a trespassing monster. The wild is in the druid’s blood."
That is why their capstone ability is Thousand Forms. The Moon is a symbol of what the subclass is about rather than being more literal like it is with other druid circles. The Moon holds a place of reverence in their Circle culture but it isn't what they specialize in manipulating.
I like the added touch of literality by including actual moonlight in the subclass. Moon Druid being the only druid that can still access some spells while wildshaped early on strengthens the subclass mechanically too.
But the thing is - it was the name that didn't fit the theme, not the other way around. The druid has a shapeshifting feature which is core to the class, and the class was always supposed to have a subclass dedicated to emphasizing this feature, a dedicated shapeshifter subclass, it just makes sense. Some people want to shapeshift into really powerful creatures. But now there is no option to do so. You get weird unnatural magic laser pseudobeast form instead. Why? Because it is called "circle of the moon", duh.
1) Moonlight is perfectly natural, and besides, the combination isn't even new; World of Warcraft has had bear druids shooting moonbeams for a decade now. I have little doubt it's the same game that gave us Stars Druids wearing shiny constellations on their bodies.
2) "Really powerful creatures" ends partway through Tier 2; with 2014 Moon Druid, you either switched to elemental forms at 10+ or you fell behind (and arguably were already falling behind well before that.) That's a problem with the CR system, and it's something the subclass can't solve as currently designed (i.e. relying purely on beast statblocks.)
1) Moonlight is perfectly natural, and besides, the combination isn't even new; World of Warcraft has had bear druids shooting moonbeams for a decade now. I have little doubt it's the same game that gave us Stars Druids wearing shiny constellations on their bodies.
2) "Really powerful creatures" ends partway through Tier 2; with 2014 Moon Druid, you either switched to elemental forms at 10+ or you fell behind (and arguably were already falling behind well before that.) That's a problem with the CR system, and it's something the subclass can't solve as currently designed (i.e. relying purely on beast statblocks.)
Moonlight is natural, but animals with lasers are... not quite. As for powerful creatures, what could be simpler and more desirable than letting shapeshifter specialist druids shapeshift into shambling mounds, wyverns, bulettes, or basilisks? Or at least a measly owlbear? Powerful creatures native to material plane.
Moonlight is natural, but animals with lasers are... not quite.
You're not an animal, you're a druid that turns into an animal. Animals can't concentrate on Stoneskin or channel primal spell energy to heal their own wounds either.
As for powerful creatures, what could be simpler and more desirable than letting shapeshifter specialist druids shapeshift into shambling mounds, wyverns, bulettes, or basilisks? Or at least a measly owlbear? Powerful creatures native to material plane.
They tried to give us that via templates and we shouted them down. So now we'll have to see what their final swing is in UA9.
I think they're just going to make Owlbears Beasts in MM24 and call it a day.
Moonlight is natural, but animals with lasers are... not quite.
You're not an animal, you're a druid that turns into an animal. Animals can't concentrate on Stoneskin or channel primal spell energy to heal their own wounds either.
As for powerful creatures, what could be simpler and more desirable than letting shapeshifter specialist druids shapeshift into shambling mounds, wyverns, bulettes, or basilisks? Or at least a measly owlbear? Powerful creatures native to material plane.
They tried to give us that via templates and we shouted them down. So now we'll have to see what their final swing is in UA9.
I think they're just going to make Owlbears Beasts in MM24 and call it a day.
The templates didn’t really do that though. All the templates were just generic beast like creatures that we could flavor. Like you can say you’re a spider but your not an actual spider with Spider Climb, Web Walker, or a poisonous bite. What Kamchatmonk is wanting is the ability to switch into actual non-beast creatures.
Moonlight is natural, but animals with lasers are... not quite.
You're not an animal, you're a druid that turns into an animal. Animals can't concentrate on Stoneskin or channel primal spell energy to heal their own wounds either.
As for powerful creatures, what could be simpler and more desirable than letting shapeshifter specialist druids shapeshift into shambling mounds, wyverns, bulettes, or basilisks? Or at least a measly owlbear? Powerful creatures native to material plane.
They tried to give us that via templates and we shouted them down. So now we'll have to see what their final swing is in UA9.
I think they're just going to make Owlbears Beasts in MM24 and call it a day.
The templates didn’t really do that though. All the templates were just generic beast like creatures that we could flavor. Like you can say you’re a spider but your not an actual spider with Spider Climb, Web Walker, or a poisonous bite. What Kamchatmonk is wanting is the ability to switch into actual non-beast creatures.
I agree they needed iteration to get some of the beast abilities in there. Too late now though.
My personal vote is that they stick to CR 1 or lower and just scale those forms. Then they have an easy balance point that has over 100+ animals already, and from which they can design any additional animal we could possibly want in a relatively balanced way, rather than e.g. the only level 18 option being a boring mammoth.
Moonlight is natural, but animals with lasers are... not quite.
You're not an animal, you're a druid that turns into an animal. Animals can't concentrate on Stoneskin or channel primal spell energy to heal their own wounds either.
As for powerful creatures, what could be simpler and more desirable than letting shapeshifter specialist druids shapeshift into shambling mounds, wyverns, bulettes, or basilisks? Or at least a measly owlbear? Powerful creatures native to material plane.
They tried to give us that via templates and we shouted them down. So now we'll have to see what their final swing is in UA9.
I think they're just going to make Owlbears Beasts in MM24 and call it a day.
The templates didn’t really do that though. All the templates were just generic beast like creatures that we could flavor. Like you can say you’re a spider but your not an actual spider with Spider Climb, Web Walker, or a poisonous bite. What Kamchatmonk is wanting is the ability to switch into actual non-beast creatures.
I agree they needed iteration to get some of the beast abilities in there. Too late now though.
My personal vote is that they stick to CR 1 or lower and just scale those forms. Then they have an easy balance point that has over 100+ animals already, and from which they can design any additional animal we could possibly want in a relatively balanced way, rather than e.g. the only level 18 option being a boring mammoth.
I had considered maybe, like you said, keep firms to CR1, and then Moon Druids get some scaling as well as being able to use spell slots to boost your forms. So not just healing uses your slots.
I agree they needed iteration to get some of the beast abilities in there. Too late now though.
My personal vote is that they stick to CR 1 or lower and just scale those forms. Then they have an easy balance point that has over 100+ animals already, and from which they can design any additional animal we could possibly want in a relatively balanced way, rather than e.g. the only level 18 option being a boring mammoth.
That's just so... unambitious. I wanted the invisibility of a displacer beast, the regeneration and consuming grapple of a shambling mound, basilisk's gaze, wyvern's poison... instead we get the most generic out of generic. What's even the point of such shapeshifting other than flavor (that has nothing to do with the moon anyway)? Why not just give Circle of the Moon extra attack and call it a day? They can already have medium armor, shields, and martial weapons.
I don’t think they need a playtest for how the rules are written. I’m sure they are aware of it considering the SAC was needed to explain things. And I doubt having thousands of players arguing over UA rules rewrites for clarity would be as helpful as you would think.
They do need testing, but it's a different type of testing. In and ideal world, you'd hand the rules over to both a set of experts at D&D and hair-splitting pedantry, and to groups of completely inexperienced players, and observe how they get it wrong when playing without any external assistance.
But neither case is suitable for the massive open playtesting.
I agree they needed iteration to get some of the beast abilities in there. Too late now though.
My personal vote is that they stick to CR 1 or lower and just scale those forms. Then they have an easy balance point that has over 100+ animals already, and from which they can design any additional animal we could possibly want in a relatively balanced way, rather than e.g. the only level 18 option being a boring mammoth.
That's just so... unambitious. I wanted the invisibility of a displacer beast, the regeneration and consuming grapple of a shambling mound, basilisk's gaze, wyvern's poison... instead we get the most generic out of generic. What's even the point of such shapeshifting other than flavor (that has nothing to do with the moon anyway)? Why not just give Circle of the Moon extra attack and call it a day? They can already have medium armor, shields, and martial weapons.
I think there's middle ground between just having Extra Attack, and getting Shapechange at level 3 🤨
I don't mind Wild Shape having some toolbox features like climbing and spiderwebs, but letting you become a displacer beast, basilisk, and a shambling mound...?
I think there's middle ground between just having Extra Attack, and getting Shapechange at level 3 🤨
I don't mind Wild Shape having some toolbox features like climbing and spiderwebs, but letting you become a displacer beast, basilisk, and a shambling mound...?
I don't see anything in it that would overshadow the power of a fullcaster. If shapeshifting and using those monsters' powers would expend the class resource - that is, spell slots - that would be fairly balanced.
Next UA before year-end and will contain Barb, Monk and Druid
SO it can be late December before we see the next UA?
I hope they replace brawler with Arcane archer and give it more than 3 arcane shots for the life of the class.
While they only said that it would be before the end of the year, I would be quite surprised if they leave it too close to Christmas. If they did, I would think that they would get a much lower response level than usual.
Arcane Archers should be able to use their ranged weapon of choice as a focus to cast cantrips that they know. Not just "casting firebolt as a replacement for having an arrow", but also cantrips that are supposed to involve a melee attack, booming blade and green flame blade as well (maybe also melee spell attack cantrips, like shocking grasp). And any enchantments on the weapon or ammunition apply to the attack roll, damage, or saving throw DC. Then give them psi-warrior type bonus damage dice, and make their special shots cost those dice.
Next UA before year-end and will contain Barb, Monk and Druid
SO it can be late December before we see the next UA?
I hope they replace brawler with Arcane archer and give it more than 3 arcane shots for the life of the class.
I expect that the 4th fighter subclass will be Samurai or perhaps Cavalier. While I think Arcane Archer has a broad enough appeal to warrant being in a core rule book, I think it needs enough work that it will need more playtesting than the time we have left.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
But the thing is - it was the name that didn't fit the theme, not the other way around. The druid has a shapeshifting feature which is core to the class, and the class was always supposed to have a subclass dedicated to emphasizing this feature, a dedicated shapeshifter subclass, it just makes sense. Some people want to shapeshift into really powerful creatures. But now there is no option to do so. You get weird unnatural magic laser pseudobeast form instead. Why? Because it is called "circle of the moon", duh.
I would love to see an elements druid.
1- the new sorcerer cantrip that is an elemental bolt, and the elementalism cantrip
2- elemental forms for wildshape
3- being able to pick the elemental energy type for flameblade
4- "chromatic orb" and "dragon's breath"
What else?
I like the added touch of literality by including actual moonlight in the subclass. Moon Druid being the only druid that can still access some spells while wildshaped early on strengthens the subclass mechanically too.
1) Moonlight is perfectly natural, and besides, the combination isn't even new; World of Warcraft has had bear druids shooting moonbeams for a decade now. I have little doubt it's the same game that gave us Stars Druids wearing shiny constellations on their bodies.
2) "Really powerful creatures" ends partway through Tier 2; with 2014 Moon Druid, you either switched to elemental forms at 10+ or you fell behind (and arguably were already falling behind well before that.) That's a problem with the CR system, and it's something the subclass can't solve as currently designed (i.e. relying purely on beast statblocks.)
Moonlight is natural, but animals with lasers are... not quite. As for powerful creatures, what could be simpler and more desirable than letting shapeshifter specialist druids shapeshift into shambling mounds, wyverns, bulettes, or basilisks? Or at least a measly owlbear? Powerful creatures native to material plane.
I'm hoping we get the new packet Thursday. If we see more videos pop up tomorrow, we'll know.
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You're not an animal, you're a druid that turns into an animal. Animals can't concentrate on Stoneskin or channel primal spell energy to heal their own wounds either.
They tried to give us that via templates and we shouted them down. So now we'll have to see what their final swing is in UA9.
I think they're just going to make Owlbears Beasts in MM24 and call it a day.
The templates didn’t really do that though. All the templates were just generic beast like creatures that we could flavor. Like you can say you’re a spider but your not an actual spider with Spider Climb, Web Walker, or a poisonous bite. What Kamchatmonk is wanting is the ability to switch into actual non-beast creatures.
I agree they needed iteration to get some of the beast abilities in there. Too late now though.
My personal vote is that they stick to CR 1 or lower and just scale those forms. Then they have an easy balance point that has over 100+ animals already, and from which they can design any additional animal we could possibly want in a relatively balanced way, rather than e.g. the only level 18 option being a boring mammoth.
I had considered maybe, like you said, keep firms to CR1, and then Moon Druids get some scaling as well as being able to use spell slots to boost your forms. So not just healing uses your slots.
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That's just so... unambitious. I wanted the invisibility of a displacer beast, the regeneration and consuming grapple of a shambling mound, basilisk's gaze, wyvern's poison... instead we get the most generic out of generic. What's even the point of such shapeshifting other than flavor (that has nothing to do with the moon anyway)? Why not just give Circle of the Moon extra attack and call it a day? They can already have medium armor, shields, and martial weapons.
They do need testing, but it's a different type of testing. In and ideal world, you'd hand the rules over to both a set of experts at D&D and hair-splitting pedantry, and to groups of completely inexperienced players, and observe how they get it wrong when playing without any external assistance.
But neither case is suitable for the massive open playtesting.
I think there's middle ground between just having Extra Attack, and getting Shapechange at level 3 🤨
I don't mind Wild Shape having some toolbox features like climbing and spiderwebs, but letting you become a displacer beast, basilisk, and a shambling mound...?
I don't see anything in it that would overshadow the power of a fullcaster. If shapeshifting and using those monsters' powers would expend the class resource - that is, spell slots - that would be fairly balanced.
SO it can be late December before we see the next UA?
I hope they replace brawler with Arcane archer and give it more than 3 arcane shots for the life of the class.
While they only said that it would be before the end of the year, I would be quite surprised if they leave it too close to Christmas. If they did, I would think that they would get a much lower response level than usual.
Given their track record of "solving" resource starvation, expect a feature that would restore 1 (one) arcane shot per long rest.
But only if you have zero shots remaining. They seem addicted to that horrible prerequisite.
Arcane Archers should be able to use their ranged weapon of choice as a focus to cast cantrips that they know. Not just "casting firebolt as a replacement for having an arrow", but also cantrips that are supposed to involve a melee attack, booming blade and green flame blade as well (maybe also melee spell attack cantrips, like shocking grasp). And any enchantments on the weapon or ammunition apply to the attack roll, damage, or saving throw DC. Then give them psi-warrior type bonus damage dice, and make their special shots cost those dice.
I expect that the 4th fighter subclass will be Samurai or perhaps Cavalier. While I think Arcane Archer has a broad enough appeal to warrant being in a core rule book, I think it needs enough work that it will need more playtesting than the time we have left.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
The playtest mostly has Subclasses with opposing concepts. With Brawler gone I thought...
Champion: Fewer options
Battle Master: More options
Eldridge Knight: Mix of Magic and Melee
Arcane Archer: Mix of Magic and Ranged