Would an easy fix for AA be that at 3rd level they can imbue their ammunition with arcane energy. Their ammunition can do 1d4 acid, cold, fire, lightning damage in addition to the weapon damage and scales at later levels. Their 7th level feature can, if they choose, ignore the ammunition property and a magical arrow automatically appears when they attack and does force damage (think Hank from the old D&D cartoon). Plus the rest of their features with maybe one additional use of their arcane shots.
Sorry, not exactly on topic but we’ve been talking AA and I didn’t want to start another thread.
I doubt AA will be in the PHB though
The problem I have with AA is more about how it’s features trap you in one playstyle. Even a Str based fighter can throw a dagger or javelin for some range and use their subclass features, but an AA can’t switch to a rapier or dagger and benefit from any of its features.
you can only benefit from its features twice every SR anyway, so most of the time you aren't using its features.I guess you can make a BA attack once per round if you miss a shot, but thats still not requiring multiple arrow attacks per turn, there are simpler ways to make an ranged attack with a BA,
Literally every feature is about using arrows fired from a bow. The shots, the ability to make all arrows magic, the bonus action redirect of arrows, and finally getting to gain a shot at the start of combat. No other fighter is so singularly focused. While I actually enjoyed playing the subclass looking at it objectively it is too restrictive compared to other fighters. I posted a simple fix of changing the shots into strikes and allowing it to work for any attack. The only thing that remained arrow only was making them magical at 7th and I added bolts to that. Those changes at least makes the subclass as versatile as other fighter subclasses.
I just feel the need to chime in. The discussion about Eldritch Knight not being a melee subclass absolutely baffles me. In all the discussions I've seen or heard about the subclass, it's always been treated as "melee with some spellcasting", with the spellcasting mostly used to provide additional defenses and a ranged damage option or two. The few references I've seen to archery on an eldritch knight were calling it out as redundant, because it's adding cantrips as an option when you already have a bow + extra attack, and defensive magics when you're already durable and keeping your distance. Sure, you can play an Eldritch Knight with a bow, but you're not getting anywhere near as much benefit out of it as you would with a melee build.
I just feel the need to chime in. The discussion about Eldritch Knight not being a melee subclass absolutely baffles me. In all the discussions I've seen or heard about the subclass, it's always been treated as "melee with some spellcasting", with the spellcasting mostly used to provide additional defenses and a ranged damage option or two. The few references I've seen to archery on an eldritch knight were calling it out as redundant, because it's adding cantrips as an option when you already have a bow + extra attack, and defensive magics when you're already durable and keeping your distance. Sure, you can play an Eldritch Knight with a bow, but you're not getting anywhere near as much benefit out of it as you would with a melee build.
first off, baseline righter is excellent at ranged attacks, most fighter subs boost ranged and melee attacks.
second, there is more than one way to build an eldritch knight, fighter has access to all weapons and features for all weapons. magic is the same.
so this is onednd eldritch knight we are talking about.
now you can replace an attack each round with a cantrip, so the new ek will commonly throw magic in their attack rounds. cantrips increase in damage based on level, So its not in your best interest to only think of magic as for defense.
later on they can give disadvantage to saving throws, and replace more attacks with spells.
so, the magic has no particular reason to be tank defense oriented.
so now compare the AA, they can do a number of magical effects, added to an attack. twice per short rest. Eldritch knight can do extra damage via cantrip on every single turn. AA can use a BA to redirect a missed attack as a BA. This may have been OK with old sharpshooter, but realistically, a ranged focused fighter will almost never miss regardless of subclass in one dnd, due to +2 attack, and numerous sources of advantage. Not to mention an easier method for ranged BA attacks? thrown light weapons or xbows, or thrown light weapons and xbows.
magical attacks with bows? yeah so what you should have a magic weapon by level 7.
The AA as is, isnt as good at magic as the EK. and is essentially the same at archery
Would an easy fix for AA be that at 3rd level they can imbue their ammunition with arcane energy. Their ammunition can do 1d4 acid, cold, fire, lightning damage in addition to the weapon damage and scales at later levels. Their 7th level feature can, if they choose, ignore the ammunition property and a magical arrow automatically appears when they attack and does force damage (think Hank from the old D&D cartoon). Plus the rest of their features with maybe one additional use of their arcane shots.
Sorry, not exactly on topic but we’ve been talking AA and I didn’t want to start another thread.
I doubt AA will be in the PHB though
The problem I have with AA is more about how it’s features trap you in one playstyle. Even a Str based fighter can throw a dagger or javelin for some range and use their subclass features, but an AA can’t switch to a rapier or dagger and benefit from any of its features.
you can only benefit from its features twice every SR anyway, so most of the time you aren't using its features.I guess you can make a BA attack once per round if you miss a shot, but thats still not requiring multiple arrow attacks per turn, there are simpler ways to make an ranged attack with a BA,
Literally every feature is about using arrows fired from a bow. The shots, the ability to make all arrows magic, the bonus action redirect of arrows, and finally getting to gain a shot at the start of combat. No other fighter is so singularly focused. While I actually enjoyed playing the subclass looking at it objectively it is too restrictive compared to other fighters. I posted a simple fix of changing the shots into strikes and allowing it to work for any attack. The only thing that remained arrow only was making them magical at 7th and I added bolts to that. Those changes at least makes the subclass as versatile as other fighter subclasses.
yes, but the features that aren't arcane are kinda trash. magic weapon, is given at the level you are expected to have magic items.
and arcane shot is two per SR.
curving shot is bad now, no -attack sharpshooter on a class with +2 ranged attack, vex and easy advantage. This is less likely than a critical now, and is exclusive with all other BA, like you know using an xbow or throwing a weapon as a BA.
meaning these features aren't actually good reasons to make more than one ranged attack per round, you are Freed to use other weapons, because you gain no real benefit other than 2 attacks pet SR.
Its perfectly fine for a subclass to specialize, the problem is, its a weak specialization.
Would an easy fix for AA be that at 3rd level they can imbue their ammunition with arcane energy. Their ammunition can do 1d4 acid, cold, fire, lightning damage in addition to the weapon damage and scales at later levels. Their 7th level feature can, if they choose, ignore the ammunition property and a magical arrow automatically appears when they attack and does force damage (think Hank from the old D&D cartoon). Plus the rest of their features with maybe one additional use of their arcane shots.
Sorry, not exactly on topic but we’ve been talking AA and I didn’t want to start another thread.
I doubt AA will be in the PHB though
The problem I have with AA is more about how it’s features trap you in one playstyle. Even a Str based fighter can throw a dagger or javelin for some range and use their subclass features, but an AA can’t switch to a rapier or dagger and benefit from any of its features.
you can only benefit from its features twice every SR anyway, so most of the time you aren't using its features.I guess you can make a BA attack once per round if you miss a shot, but thats still not requiring multiple arrow attacks per turn, there are simpler ways to make an ranged attack with a BA,
Literally every feature is about using arrows fired from a bow. The shots, the ability to make all arrows magic, the bonus action redirect of arrows, and finally getting to gain a shot at the start of combat. No other fighter is so singularly focused. While I actually enjoyed playing the subclass looking at it objectively it is too restrictive compared to other fighters. I posted a simple fix of changing the shots into strikes and allowing it to work for any attack. The only thing that remained arrow only was making them magical at 7th and I added bolts to that. Those changes at least makes the subclass as versatile as other fighter subclasses.
yes, but the features that aren't arcane are kinda trash. magic weapon, is given at the level you are expected to have magic items.
and arcane shot is two per SR.
curving shot is bad now, no -attack sharpshooter on a class with +2 ranged attack, vex and easy advantage. This is less likely than a critical now, and is exclusive with all other BA, like you know using an xbow or throwing a weapon as a BA.
meaning these features aren't actually good reasons to make more than one ranged attack per round, you are Freed to use other weapons, because you gain no real benefit other than 2 attacks pet SR.
Its perfectly fine for a subclass to specialize, the problem is, its a weak specialization.
Which, I want to note, is the exact same issue that Brawler had.
And we're back with a daily episode of "my vision of this class/subclass is right and yours is wrong". Will warlock drop his career in show business and turn towards intellectualism? Will fighter dedicate a subclass to archery, or will he not? Was butler the mysterious murderer all along? Stay tuned for season 352 finale!
And we're back with a daily episode of "my vision of this class/subclass is right and yours is wrong". Will warlock drop his career in show business and turn towards intellectualism? Will fighter dedicate a subclass to archery, or will he not? Was butler the mysterious murderer all along? Stay tuned for season 352 finale!
And we're back with a daily episode of "my vision of this class/subclass is right and yours is wrong". Will warlock drop his career in show business and turn towards intellectualism? Will fighter dedicate a subclass to archery, or will he not? Was butler the mysterious murderer all along? Stay tuned for season 352 finale!
It is a funny caricature of a reality in which I find myself involved very often. But in all honesty this happens due to the very philosophy behind the existence of classes in D&D. In fact, the concept "class" itself already implies that, a set of elements with common characters. And that is when the discussion is born, when those elements differ between one person or another.
Would an easy fix for AA be that at 3rd level they can imbue their ammunition with arcane energy. Their ammunition can do 1d4 acid, cold, fire, lightning damage in addition to the weapon damage and scales at later levels. Their 7th level feature can, if they choose, ignore the ammunition property and a magical arrow automatically appears when they attack and does force damage (think Hank from the old D&D cartoon). Plus the rest of their features with maybe one additional use of their arcane shots.
Sorry, not exactly on topic but we’ve been talking AA and I didn’t want to start another thread.
I doubt AA will be in the PHB though
The problem I have with AA is more about how it’s features trap you in one playstyle. Even a Str based fighter can throw a dagger or javelin for some range and use their subclass features, but an AA can’t switch to a rapier or dagger and benefit from any of its features.
you can only benefit from its features twice every SR anyway, so most of the time you aren't using its features.I guess you can make a BA attack once per round if you miss a shot, but thats still not requiring multiple arrow attacks per turn, there are simpler ways to make an ranged attack with a BA,
Literally every feature is about using arrows fired from a bow. The shots, the ability to make all arrows magic, the bonus action redirect of arrows, and finally getting to gain a shot at the start of combat. No other fighter is so singularly focused. While I actually enjoyed playing the subclass looking at it objectively it is too restrictive compared to other fighters. I posted a simple fix of changing the shots into strikes and allowing it to work for any attack. The only thing that remained arrow only was making them magical at 7th and I added bolts to that. Those changes at least makes the subclass as versatile as other fighter subclasses.
yes, but the features that aren't arcane are kinda trash. magic weapon, is given at the level you are expected to have magic items.
and arcane shot is two per SR.
curving shot is bad now, no -attack sharpshooter on a class with +2 ranged attack, vex and easy advantage. This is less likely than a critical now, and is exclusive with all other BA, like you know using an xbow or throwing a weapon as a BA.
meaning these features aren't actually good reasons to make more than one ranged attack per round, you are Freed to use other weapons, because you gain no real benefit other than 2 attacks pet SR.
Its perfectly fine for a subclass to specialize, the problem is, its a weak specialization.
Which, I want to note, is the exact same issue that Brawler had.
no, brawler did a lot of damage, and has versatility with mastery on everybattack, brawlers problem is its top heavy and and most of that power comes at 15. Also no one is good at improvised weapons as brawler was. proficiency on attacks, +6 damage per hit, two masteries out of three per hit, and added weapon properties light, for multiple attacks, throwing for strength based throwing, and big dice, reach for PAM interactions.
but regardless of that, they had feedback on brawler, they have no feedback on AA within the context of onednd. Essentially they aren't willing to fix a subclass with the time they have. So its not gonna be brawler, and probably not AA, unless they plan to release the subclass with zero feedback. Which I do not recommend.
I think that avoiding needing playtesting will be the main decider for the 4th subclass, which probably means a Tasha subclass. Fitting that into a subclass quartet schema should be manageable with any imagination.
For example, if they chose the Psi Knight, then the quartet could be:
- Champion vs Psi Knight: physical vs mental prowess
- Battlemaster vs Eldritch Knight: martial vs magical tactics/tricks.
I think that avoiding needing playtesting will be the main decider for the 4th subclass, which probably means a Tasha subclass. Fitting that into a subclass quartet schema should be manageable with any imagination.
For example, if they chose the Psi Knight, then the quartet could be:
- Champion vs Psi Knight: physical vs mental prowess
- Battlemaster vs Eldritch Knight: martial vs magical tactics/tricks.
I’m sure other schemas are available.
yeah, the issue is, psi knight is apparently not a popular subclass.
The problem with Psi Knight is it is pretty similar to Battlemaster, just with different flavour and less customization.
nah, its not really like BM.
it has a unique resource mechanic based primarily on luck, its features are heavily tied to intelligence. And its mostly about moving things/self. Yeah BM has push and prone with a damage rider, but thats only one aspect.
in terms of gameplay, it creates a fairly different experience, Also having a decent int stat changes what types of skills you will probably have.
I’m not going to read through all of these posts but has anyone thought of a Defender, kind of like the Cavalier but better, or something like a War Marshal that can be a fighter and a support character that lets you move, help, and heal allies, or a combination of both. Honestly, I think BattleMaster can do both of these because it’s so good. But a specialized support fighter, I think is what’s currently lacking for the subclasses, other than a wrestler but they tried that already with the Brawler. What do you guys think?
I’m not going to read through all of these posts but has anyone thought of a Defender, kind of like the Cavalier but better, or something like a War Marshal that can be a fighter and a support character that lets you move, help, and heal allies, or a combination of both. Honestly, I think BattleMaster can do both of these because it’s so good. But a specialized support fighter, I think is what’s currently lacking for the subclasses, other than a wrestler but they tried that already with the Brawler. What do you guys think?
they aren't going to do a totally new subclass because they said fighter is finished in UA. They will clone nother subclass, with minimal changes, if any at all.
I’m not going to read through all of these posts but has anyone thought of a Defender, kind of like the Cavalier but better, or something like a War Marshal that can be a fighter and a support character that lets you move, help, and heal allies, or a combination of both. Honestly, I think BattleMaster can do both of these because it’s so good. But a specialized support fighter, I think is what’s currently lacking for the subclasses, other than a wrestler but they tried that already with the Brawler. What do you guys think?
It’s unlikely to get something new because it might require more than one playtest to get right and they don’t have the time for that now. But anything is possible because they did move forward on the world tree Barbarian after one playtest and I know some of it’s features were poorly rated.
I’m not going to read through all of these posts but has anyone thought of a Defender, kind of like the Cavalier but better, or something like a War Marshal that can be a fighter and a support character that lets you move, help, and heal allies, or a combination of both. Honestly, I think BattleMaster can do both of these because it’s so good. But a specialized support fighter, I think is what’s currently lacking for the subclasses, other than a wrestler but they tried that already with the Brawler. What do you guys think?
It’s unlikely to get something new because it might require more than one playtest to get right and they don’t have the time for that now. But anything is possible because they did move forward on the world tree Barbarian after one playtest and I know some of it’s features were poorly rated.
It’s possible. I mean, I don’t think the cavalier needs that much work. Just change the name and make some modifications like replace the born to the saddle feature and it would probably be fine as a defender type subclass. Arcane Archer would need alot more, I think and it’s only good for ranged and it’s magic based, however the cavalier fits the opposite of eldritch knight being non magical if they are planning on sticking to the four opposites thing and at later levels it could be just as powerful as the battlemaster and eldritch knight. I just really believe it’s something the fighter needs. Plus, it can be changed to being not limited to melee and be both melee and ranged pretty easily. Here’s to hoping.
I’m not going to read through all of these posts but has anyone thought of a Defender, kind of like the Cavalier but better, or something like a War Marshal that can be a fighter and a support character that lets you move, help, and heal allies, or a combination of both. Honestly, I think BattleMaster can do both of these because it’s so good. But a specialized support fighter, I think is what’s currently lacking for the subclasses, other than a wrestler but they tried that already with the Brawler. What do you guys think?
It’s unlikely to get something new because it might require more than one playtest to get right and they don’t have the time for that now. But anything is possible because they did move forward on the world tree Barbarian after one playtest and I know some of it’s features were poorly rated.
it will have to move forward with zero playtests, they said 9 classes are finished in the UA, only monk, druid, and barb have any UA time as it stands, if they don't change their minds
Cavalier is possible, just don't expect much changes. other classes they imported without playtest, it literally says use the version found in another book, not even a line of errata.
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Literally every feature is about using arrows fired from a bow. The shots, the ability to make all arrows magic, the bonus action redirect of arrows, and finally getting to gain a shot at the start of combat. No other fighter is so singularly focused. While I actually enjoyed playing the subclass looking at it objectively it is too restrictive compared to other fighters. I posted a simple fix of changing the shots into strikes and allowing it to work for any attack. The only thing that remained arrow only was making them magical at 7th and I added bolts to that. Those changes at least makes the subclass as versatile as other fighter subclasses.
Or they can take sharpshooter at level 4. Which in UA negates penalties for using a ranged weapon in melee.
I just feel the need to chime in. The discussion about Eldritch Knight not being a melee subclass absolutely baffles me. In all the discussions I've seen or heard about the subclass, it's always been treated as "melee with some spellcasting", with the spellcasting mostly used to provide additional defenses and a ranged damage option or two. The few references I've seen to archery on an eldritch knight were calling it out as redundant, because it's adding cantrips as an option when you already have a bow + extra attack, and defensive magics when you're already durable and keeping your distance. Sure, you can play an Eldritch Knight with a bow, but you're not getting anywhere near as much benefit out of it as you would with a melee build.
first off, baseline righter is excellent at ranged attacks, most fighter subs boost ranged and melee attacks.
second, there is more than one way to build an eldritch knight, fighter has access to all weapons and features for all weapons. magic is the same.
so this is onednd eldritch knight we are talking about.
now you can replace an attack each round with a cantrip, so the new ek will commonly throw magic in their attack rounds. cantrips increase in damage based on level, So its not in your best interest to only think of magic as for defense.
later on they can give disadvantage to saving throws, and replace more attacks with spells.
so, the magic has no particular reason to be tank defense oriented.
so now compare the AA, they can do a number of magical effects, added to an attack. twice per short rest. Eldritch knight can do extra damage via cantrip on every single turn. AA can use a BA to redirect a missed attack as a BA. This may have been OK with old sharpshooter, but realistically, a ranged focused fighter will almost never miss regardless of subclass in one dnd, due to +2 attack, and numerous sources of advantage. Not to mention an easier method for ranged BA attacks? thrown light weapons or xbows, or thrown light weapons and xbows.
magical attacks with bows? yeah so what you should have a magic weapon by level 7.
The AA as is, isnt as good at magic as the EK. and is essentially the same at archery
yes, but the features that aren't arcane are kinda trash. magic weapon, is given at the level you are expected to have magic items.
and arcane shot is two per SR.
curving shot is bad now, no -attack sharpshooter on a class with +2 ranged attack, vex and easy advantage. This is less likely than a critical now, and is exclusive with all other BA, like you know using an xbow or throwing a weapon as a BA.
meaning these features aren't actually good reasons to make more than one ranged attack per round, you are Freed to use other weapons, because you gain no real benefit other than 2 attacks pet SR.
Its perfectly fine for a subclass to specialize, the problem is, its a weak specialization.
Which, I want to note, is the exact same issue that Brawler had.
And we're back with a daily episode of "my vision of this class/subclass is right and yours is wrong". Will warlock drop his career in show business and turn towards intellectualism? Will fighter dedicate a subclass to archery, or will he not? Was butler the mysterious murderer all along? Stay tuned for season 352 finale!
😂🤣
It is a funny caricature of a reality in which I find myself involved very often. But in all honesty this happens due to the very philosophy behind the existence of classes in D&D. In fact, the concept "class" itself already implies that, a set of elements with common characters. And that is when the discussion is born, when those elements differ between one person or another.
no, brawler did a lot of damage, and has versatility with mastery on everybattack, brawlers problem is its top heavy and and most of that power comes at 15. Also no one is good at improvised weapons as brawler was. proficiency on attacks, +6 damage per hit, two masteries out of three per hit, and added weapon properties light, for multiple attacks, throwing for strength based throwing, and big dice, reach for PAM interactions.
but regardless of that, they had feedback on brawler, they have no feedback on AA within the context of onednd. Essentially they aren't willing to fix a subclass with the time they have. So its not gonna be brawler, and probably not AA, unless they plan to release the subclass with zero feedback. Which I do not recommend.
I think that avoiding needing playtesting will be the main decider for the 4th subclass, which probably means a Tasha subclass. Fitting that into a subclass quartet schema should be manageable with any imagination.
For example, if they chose the Psi Knight, then the quartet could be:
- Champion vs Psi Knight: physical vs mental prowess
- Battlemaster vs Eldritch Knight: martial vs magical tactics/tricks.
I’m sure other schemas are available.
yeah, the issue is, psi knight is apparently not a popular subclass.
The problem with Psi Knight is it is pretty similar to Battlemaster, just with different flavour and less customization.
nah, its not really like BM.
it has a unique resource mechanic based primarily on luck, its features are heavily tied to intelligence. And its mostly about moving things/self. Yeah BM has push and prone with a damage rider, but thats only one aspect.
in terms of gameplay, it creates a fairly different experience, Also having a decent int stat changes what types of skills you will probably have.
I’m not going to read through all of these posts but has anyone thought of a Defender, kind of like the Cavalier but better, or something like a War Marshal that can be a fighter and a support character that lets you move, help, and heal allies, or a combination of both. Honestly, I think BattleMaster can do both of these because it’s so good. But a specialized support fighter, I think is what’s currently lacking for the subclasses, other than a wrestler but they tried that already with the Brawler. What do you guys think?
they aren't going to do a totally new subclass because they said fighter is finished in UA. They will clone nother subclass, with minimal changes, if any at all.
It’s unlikely to get something new because it might require more than one playtest to get right and they don’t have the time for that now. But anything is possible because they did move forward on the world tree Barbarian after one playtest and I know some of it’s features were poorly rated.
It’s possible. I mean, I don’t think the cavalier needs that much work. Just change the name and make some modifications like replace the born to the saddle feature and it would probably be fine as a defender type subclass. Arcane Archer would need alot more, I think and it’s only good for ranged and it’s magic based, however the cavalier fits the opposite of eldritch knight being non magical if they are planning on sticking to the four opposites thing and at later levels it could be just as powerful as the battlemaster and eldritch knight. I just really believe it’s something the fighter needs. Plus, it can be changed to being not limited to melee and be both melee and ranged pretty easily.
Here’s to hoping.
it will have to move forward with zero playtests, they said 9 classes are finished in the UA, only monk, druid, and barb have any UA time as it stands, if they don't change their minds
Cavalier is possible, just don't expect much changes. other classes they imported without playtest, it literally says use the version found in another book, not even a line of errata.