I do not post often, I am an observer, hiding behind nods and tsk tsk noises. But I wanted to give my feedback on the Shadow Sorcerer in the Unearthed Arcana. I figure we could talk about this in a healthy way, maybe push aside the "eh I hate that they did this" and say, "I think it would have been better as this, because this." Be gentle. Im trying my best!
Shadow Sorcerer - I know its tied to the Shadowfell and as such, Undead, but when I think of the dark, I think of more then a zombie or a vampire "I VANT TO SUCK YA BLOOD! BLEH BLEH BLEH"
Out of order in regards to level... LETS DO THIS
Spirits of Ill Omen: Summon Undead shall become Summon Shadowspawn! I say we keep the free cast and the Concentration is free thing. I would bet anyone here a fake dollar that it will become that in the end regardless, it just hasn't been re-released as a spell so... you know... waiting game. BUT what if we added... if your summon hits its target, they get -1 to their saving throws. I KNOW what you thinking... your like... OP... Innate Sorcery ANNNND Heightened SPELL and now this! But I gotta say... well... What else would be cool?
Eyes of the Dark: I think actually... it would be cool if this stayed as is. Magical Darkness Vision and a small bit of Blindsight. Its filling, gorgeous even.
Strength of the Grave: Back to Level 3, lets keep it what it is though. Its pretty and useful and would be such a fancy nice thing. We could change it to Shade Form or something, but again, we can add a dash of undead or at least resilence that dark things are known for. WHAT IF WE TIED THE TWO TOGETHER? Call Eyes of the Dark and Strength of the Grave... Shadow Infusion or something thematically cool sounding. (Insert Artistic Brain Commentary here.)
Shadow Spells: So juicy! Id change Summon Undead to Summon Shadowspawn... because of above! Id possibly consider removing Inflict Wounds and changing that to honestly... i don't know, maybe id keep it. BUT I think if a spell creates darkness...you can use sorcery points to cast it. Maybe even just cast any of these with sorcery points. If you wanna add a riding effect, maybe.. I don't know... what you thinking?
Shadowwalk: Level 14, what if we were to change it to use a Move or Bonus Action... if ya wanna be fancy... you could say once per round. I want my choices, you should too!
Umbral Form: What if... now hear me out! What if... you could target yourself OR another on touch with this? Strength of the Grave is already gone so its mostly just the other two effects... Imagine a shadow engulfing your target... ohhh so pretty!
Let me know your suggestions... or don't, but I saw the Hexblade Thread and wanted to know what people think about the Shadow... easily the most beautiful class. :)
So anyone want to... add anything. What would make the class more distinct? I know you probably heard this on so many other forums but I was hoping to start a dialogue.
Sorry not trying to make you feel ignored, shadow sorcerer just isn't really my cup of tea. If playing a sorcerer, there are other sorc subclasses that call to me more. I don't have any strong opinions on these features either way.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
There's nothing that really does appeal to me about it. I love sorcs, but this just isn't interesting to me. That doesn't means it's bad, just not for me.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
So strength of the grave moving back to level 3 would be good,
Im pretty sure it’s summon Undead because it ties to the Shadowfell and because Summon Shadowspawn is only in Tasha’s. It would need to also be printed in whatever book the subclass appears in to use it. Summon undead is already in the PHB.
Necromancy spells are on the list because of of Shadowfell ties, and I don’t see a reason to get rid of any of them.
I don’t know what else to to with umbra form.
More people are going to talk about Hexblade because it’s bad and very different compared to 2014. Shadow while different still hits most of the notes of 2014 and is an improvement overall.
I really liked the changes, but i wish they would change strength of the Grave. The Charisma save mechanic does not work as well as intended imo, and at least for me, I've never done it successfully. The DC being 5 + half damage instead of 5 + full damage is a good start, but I think this feature will still become unusable in the later game; especially since now its an 18th level feature.
We already have mechanics in game for this, so i would suggest this, were it moved back to 3rd level.
"Once per Long Rest the first time you drop to 0 HP (from damage that isn't Radiant) you drop to 1 HP instead. Alternatively, you may spend 3 Sorcery Points as a Reaction to use it again."
I didnt truly realize that it works with Umbral Form, so if you get hit by a 40 damage... say fire attack, and you get downed, you take half damage from umbral form before this roll even occurs, a 15 Charisma DC seems not too harsh for a 40 damage attack? I believe? No?
Shadow Sorcery barely felt like a subclass at all to me. Until level 14, you get darkvision, the expanded spell list, and the ability to cast a specific 3rd level spell for free once as well as avoid concentrating on it if you're okay with it only lasting that encounter. Also, am I misremembering in how when you cast a spell without a spell-slot, it defaults to its minimum level? So, a level 16 Shadow Sorcerer free-casting their Spirit of Ill Omen would get a squishy little thing with only a single attack?
Compare to, say, Draconic Sorcery. You get bonus HP, you get bonus AC, you get a resistance, you get bonus damage; most of which scale with your character's progression. And an expanded spell list.
Now, a part of my general gripe is that - just as with rogues - there's just such a big gap in the subclass progression. That being said, in those cases it's all the more important to frontload the subclass a bit more so it has a solid identity on its own. For instance, consider playing an Orc Sorcerer (for huge darkvision) who picked up Summon Undead? Already right there you have most of what the subclass has to offer. Yes, yes, the expanded spell list is there, too. Am I being unreasonable for feeling that a spellcaster subclass should have a solid identity in its features beyond their extra spells?
Give the Shadow Sorcerer a lesser version of the Umbral Form at level 3. Give them a Thing That They Can Do that's not a spell. :)
This makes absolute sense, what if there were some unique options that you could choose at 3 or 6, kind of like fighting styles. Some examples could be, maybe at level 6 you can summon an OG Hound of Ill Omen, or have increased touch range in shadows, or even perhaps bind or suffocate creatures in shadows. But you can only pick one of these options, each is unique (except maybe the touch in darkness thing)
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I do not post often, I am an observer, hiding behind nods and tsk tsk noises. But I wanted to give my feedback on the Shadow Sorcerer in the Unearthed Arcana. I figure we could talk about this in a healthy way, maybe push aside the "eh I hate that they did this" and say, "I think it would have been better as this, because this." Be gentle. Im trying my best!
Shadow Sorcerer - I know its tied to the Shadowfell and as such, Undead, but when I think of the dark, I think of more then a zombie or a vampire "I VANT TO SUCK YA BLOOD! BLEH BLEH BLEH"
Out of order in regards to level... LETS DO THIS
Spirits of Ill Omen: Summon Undead shall become Summon Shadowspawn! I say we keep the free cast and the Concentration is free thing. I would bet anyone here a fake dollar that it will become that in the end regardless, it just hasn't been re-released as a spell so... you know... waiting game. BUT what if we added... if your summon hits its target, they get -1 to their saving throws. I KNOW what you thinking... your like... OP... Innate Sorcery ANNNND Heightened SPELL and now this! But I gotta say... well... What else would be cool?
Eyes of the Dark: I think actually... it would be cool if this stayed as is. Magical Darkness Vision and a small bit of Blindsight. Its filling, gorgeous even.
Strength of the Grave: Back to Level 3, lets keep it what it is though. Its pretty and useful and would be such a fancy nice thing. We could change it to Shade Form or something, but again, we can add a dash of undead or at least resilence that dark things are known for. WHAT IF WE TIED THE TWO TOGETHER? Call Eyes of the Dark and Strength of the Grave... Shadow Infusion or something thematically cool sounding. (Insert Artistic Brain Commentary here.)
Shadow Spells: So juicy! Id change Summon Undead to Summon Shadowspawn... because of above! Id possibly consider removing Inflict Wounds and changing that to honestly... i don't know, maybe id keep it. BUT I think if a spell creates darkness...you can use sorcery points to cast it. Maybe even just cast any of these with sorcery points. If you wanna add a riding effect, maybe.. I don't know... what you thinking?
Shadowwalk: Level 14, what if we were to change it to use a Move or Bonus Action... if ya wanna be fancy... you could say once per round. I want my choices, you should too!
Umbral Form: What if... now hear me out! What if... you could target yourself OR another on touch with this? Strength of the Grave is already gone so its mostly just the other two effects... Imagine a shadow engulfing your target... ohhh so pretty!
Let me know your suggestions... or don't, but I saw the Hexblade Thread and wanted to know what people think about the Shadow... easily the most beautiful class. :)
-This Guy
Sorry, I am feeling pretty high energy... its a high energy day... So I wanted to share my exuberance.
Tell me what I could do better to format my thoughts as well, maybe make it easier to understand what I am suggesting?
So anyone want to... add anything. What would make the class more distinct? I know you probably heard this on so many other forums but I was hoping to start a dialogue.
Sorry not trying to make you feel ignored, shadow sorcerer just isn't really my cup of tea. If playing a sorcerer, there are other sorc subclasses that call to me more. I don't have any strong opinions on these features either way.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
No worries, i love dark classes. What about this doesnt appeal to you?
There's nothing that really does appeal to me about it. I love sorcs, but this just isn't interesting to me. That doesn't means it's bad, just not for me.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
So strength of the grave moving back to level 3 would be good,
Im pretty sure it’s summon Undead because it ties to the Shadowfell and because Summon Shadowspawn is only in Tasha’s. It would need to also be printed in whatever book the subclass appears in to use it. Summon undead is already in the PHB.
Necromancy spells are on the list because of of Shadowfell ties, and I don’t see a reason to get rid of any of them.
I don’t know what else to to with umbra form.
More people are going to talk about Hexblade because it’s bad and very different compared to 2014. Shadow while different still hits most of the notes of 2014 and is an improvement overall.
I really liked the changes, but i wish they would change strength of the Grave. The Charisma save mechanic does not work as well as intended imo, and at least for me, I've never done it successfully. The DC being 5 + half damage instead of 5 + full damage is a good start, but I think this feature will still become unusable in the later game; especially since now its an 18th level feature.
We already have mechanics in game for this, so i would suggest this, were it moved back to 3rd level.
"Once per Long Rest the first time you drop to 0 HP (from damage that isn't Radiant) you drop to 1 HP instead. Alternatively, you may spend 3 Sorcery Points as a Reaction to use it again."
I didnt truly realize that it works with Umbral Form, so if you get hit by a 40 damage... say fire attack, and you get downed, you take half damage from umbral form before this roll even occurs, a 15 Charisma DC seems not too harsh for a 40 damage attack? I believe? No?
Shadow Sorcery barely felt like a subclass at all to me. Until level 14, you get darkvision, the expanded spell list, and the ability to cast a specific 3rd level spell for free once as well as avoid concentrating on it if you're okay with it only lasting that encounter. Also, am I misremembering in how when you cast a spell without a spell-slot, it defaults to its minimum level? So, a level 16 Shadow Sorcerer free-casting their Spirit of Ill Omen would get a squishy little thing with only a single attack?
Compare to, say, Draconic Sorcery. You get bonus HP, you get bonus AC, you get a resistance, you get bonus damage; most of which scale with your character's progression. And an expanded spell list.
Now, a part of my general gripe is that - just as with rogues - there's just such a big gap in the subclass progression. That being said, in those cases it's all the more important to frontload the subclass a bit more so it has a solid identity on its own. For instance, consider playing an Orc Sorcerer (for huge darkvision) who picked up Summon Undead? Already right there you have most of what the subclass has to offer. Yes, yes, the expanded spell list is there, too. Am I being unreasonable for feeling that a spellcaster subclass should have a solid identity in its features beyond their extra spells?
Give the Shadow Sorcerer a lesser version of the Umbral Form at level 3. Give them a Thing That They Can Do that's not a spell. :)
This makes absolute sense, what if there were some unique options that you could choose at 3 or 6, kind of like fighting styles. Some examples could be, maybe at level 6 you can summon an OG Hound of Ill Omen, or have increased touch range in shadows, or even perhaps bind or suffocate creatures in shadows. But you can only pick one of these options, each is unique (except maybe the touch in darkness thing)