Multiclass to Fighter (eldritch Knight) for level 2-9. Superior technique fighting style with quick toss. For feats get alert, fey touched (Gift of alacrity/Charisma 14), Dex ASI
Triple class into War Wizard for 2 levels - War Magic (int bonus to initiative)
Back to Rogue for 3 Levels (swashbuckler-charisma bomnus to initiative). Pick up a Dex ASI at level 14 (4 Rogue)
Now I am a Eldritch Knight 8/Swashbuckler 4/War Wizard 2 with a 15+1d8 initiative (average initiative 30), +2d6 sneak attack and a caster level of 4, shield, Absorb Elements and ability to add +4 to saves as a reaction.
First combat after a short rest, assuming I win initiative I am making 5 attacks (quick toss and action surge). Doing a total of 4d8+1d4+13d6+25. Average damage 91. 2nd+ battle, without quicktoss or AS I can use warmagic and do 3d8+6d6+15 (50.5) with the ability to do another 2d8 (9) as secondary damage. I can get the secondary damage pretty reliably as a swashbuckler.
As far as spells at 14th level I think: Shield (f), Absorb Elements (f), Protection from Good and Evil (f), Feather Fall(w), Disguise Self(w), Find Familiar(w), cause fear (w), Silvery Barbs(w), gift of alacrity (FT), Misty Step(FT), shadowblade(f), vortex warp (f), shatter (f)
Probably take EK levels from her on?
What do you think? Will it work? Would I be better off with Assassin instead of swashbuckler?
Here I was thinking that a Bugbear Gloomstalker 3/4(or 5+)/Twilight Cleric 1/Fighter 5+ (or 2?) was going to be a fun build. I haven't seriously looked into building it so assume whatever I've done is terribly unoptimised.
Hadn't considered War Wizard or Swashbuckler.
Honestly I feel Assassin for the advantage might get you more mileage than swashbuckler if you really want that first turn nova? The swashbuckler allowing you to always have an avenue to apply sneak attack is nice though.
Most of the optimized builds talk Gloomstalker, and Twlight Cleric would be awesome too mechanically. Niether of these really fit my character idea though.
I am starting to think Assasin is better than swashbuckler, and I'm thinking take levels in it early. After Fighter 5, go Assasin 4 right away.
Yeah, I think assassin just gives you that extra hitting power that you want with the advantage. Plus if you do surprise enemies you're in a really good spot.
Definitely need to focus on the feats early to ensure you're hitting first, but I think you'll be in a really nice spot when you're fighter 5 assassin 4.
For theory crafting, it seems interesting. But in play, building to pull of a specific trick, and that trick not coming online until level 14, seems like a long wait. Plus many campaigns don’t go that high, and those that do don’t go much higher, so you don’t get to do much with it, practically. If you’re going to 20, then you would get some use from it, of course. But it also seems like a lot of work just to pull off one nova/short rest.
Have you run numbers on what you give up with multiclassing so much. For example if you drop the 2 wizard and go to fighter 11, is the (relatively) small initiative bonus worth giving up a 3rd attack?
For theory crafting, it seems interesting. But in play, building to pull of a specific trick, and that trick not coming online until level 14, seems like a long wait. Plus many campaigns don’t go that high, and those that do don’t go much higher, so you don’t get to do much with it, practically. If you’re going to 20, then you would get some use from it, of course. But it also seems like a lot of work just to pull off one nova/short rest.
Have you run numbers on what you give up with multiclassing so much. For example if you drop the 2 wizard and go to fighter 11, is the (relatively) small initiative bonus worth giving up a 3rd attack?
I have thought about it annd you make a lot of points.
I don't think I am going to go as deep into fighter (stop at 5) and I am going to go assassin and do that earlier. So level 9 will be fighter5/Assassin4 and I will pick up warcaster levels at that time.
Bugbear is a first round race, but I don't think that makes the class one trick. It is still an Eldritch-Knight Rogue with all that comes with that.
I didn’t mean to say the whole build would be one trick. I was thinking more that you see to be investing a lot into a really high initiative bonus (and with a solid reason for it) but it could be overkill. Most enemies are going to have initiatives that top out at + 5 or 6. And beating them by 1 is just as good as beating them by 10. So, I was thinking why build for a +15, when a +12 is going to be equally effective the vast majority of the time. I get wanting to more or less guarantee you go first, but I think the threshold for doing that is probably a bit lower.
Of course, I’m no math guy, so I don’t know what the right number would be.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Start with S8 D16 C12 I16 W10 Ch13
Start as Rogue.
Multiclass to Fighter (eldritch Knight) for level 2-9. Superior technique fighting style with quick toss. For feats get alert, fey touched (Gift of alacrity/Charisma 14), Dex ASI
Triple class into War Wizard for 2 levels - War Magic (int bonus to initiative)
Back to Rogue for 3 Levels (swashbuckler-charisma bomnus to initiative). Pick up a Dex ASI at level 14 (4 Rogue)
Now I am a Eldritch Knight 8/Swashbuckler 4/War Wizard 2 with a 15+1d8 initiative (average initiative 30), +2d6 sneak attack and a caster level of 4, shield, Absorb Elements and ability to add +4 to saves as a reaction.
First combat after a short rest, assuming I win initiative I am making 5 attacks (quick toss and action surge). Doing a total of 4d8+1d4+13d6+25. Average damage 91. 2nd+ battle, without quicktoss or AS I can use warmagic and do 3d8+6d6+15 (50.5) with the ability to do another 2d8 (9) as secondary damage. I can get the secondary damage pretty reliably as a swashbuckler.
As far as spells at 14th level I think: Shield (f), Absorb Elements (f), Protection from Good and Evil (f), Feather Fall(w), Disguise Self(w), Find Familiar(w), cause fear (w), Silvery Barbs(w), gift of alacrity (FT), Misty Step(FT), shadowblade(f), vortex warp (f), shatter (f)
Probably take EK levels from her on?
What do you think? Will it work? Would I be better off with Assassin instead of swashbuckler?
Here I was thinking that a Bugbear Gloomstalker 3/4(or 5+)/Twilight Cleric 1/Fighter 5+ (or 2?) was going to be a fun build. I haven't seriously looked into building it so assume whatever I've done is terribly unoptimised.
Hadn't considered War Wizard or Swashbuckler.
Honestly I feel Assassin for the advantage might get you more mileage than swashbuckler if you really want that first turn nova? The swashbuckler allowing you to always have an avenue to apply sneak attack is nice though.
Most of the optimized builds talk Gloomstalker, and Twlight Cleric would be awesome too mechanically. Niether of these really fit my character idea though.
I am starting to think Assasin is better than swashbuckler, and I'm thinking take levels in it early. After Fighter 5, go Assasin 4 right away.
Yeah, I think assassin just gives you that extra hitting power that you want with the advantage. Plus if you do surprise enemies you're in a really good spot.
Definitely need to focus on the feats early to ensure you're hitting first, but I think you'll be in a really nice spot when you're fighter 5 assassin 4.
For theory crafting, it seems interesting. But in play, building to pull of a specific trick, and that trick not coming online until level 14, seems like a long wait. Plus many campaigns don’t go that high, and those that do don’t go much higher, so you don’t get to do much with it, practically.
If you’re going to 20, then you would get some use from it, of course. But it also seems like a lot of work just to pull off one nova/short rest.
Have you run numbers on what you give up with multiclassing so much. For example if you drop the 2 wizard and go to fighter 11, is the (relatively) small initiative bonus worth giving up a 3rd attack?
I have thought about it annd you make a lot of points.
I don't think I am going to go as deep into fighter (stop at 5) and I am going to go assassin and do that earlier. So level 9 will be fighter5/Assassin4 and I will pick up warcaster levels at that time.
Bugbear is a first round race, but I don't think that makes the class one trick. It is still an Eldritch-Knight Rogue with all that comes with that.
I didn’t mean to say the whole build would be one trick. I was thinking more that you see to be investing a lot into a really high initiative bonus (and with a solid reason for it) but it could be overkill. Most enemies are going to have initiatives that top out at + 5 or 6. And beating them by 1 is just as good as beating them by 10. So, I was thinking why build for a +15, when a +12 is going to be equally effective the vast majority of the time. I get wanting to more or less guarantee you go first, but I think the threshold for doing that is probably a bit lower.
Of course, I’m no math guy, so I don’t know what the right number would be.