Now this might be easily answered but here it goes so I have just started playing a warlock character or creating is a better word and was a bit disappointed to see you couldn’t for the most part attack with the special creatures the pact of the chain feature gave you which they have pretty good poison stealth based attacks
by the way this is purely a question not ment as a chat room or anything
It says you can forgo a attack to let your familiar attack as a reaction and i know I’m probably reaching with this but thought it sounded possible
so now here is my question now if say your warlock is hiding around the corner with your party and a guard creature etc) is there could you send your familiar in to attack then lead it away etc) as in attack and move in the same turn under the idea that you will not be doing anything and saying your giving your attacks to it before any initiative would be rolled oh and could the same be applied to allowing it to hunt for you? Or is that just naturally allowed? Please clarify
The way I understand it, a pact of the chain warlock can take the attack action and forego one of it's attacks to allow it's familiar to make an attack as a reaction... which the familiar does right away on your turn.
If you have the invocation: investment of the chain master you can also use a bonus action to order your familiar to take the attack action... the familiar takes the attack action on it's turn.
Both the above examples are for combat, if you are outside of initiative you should be able to have your familiar attack using either of these options... talk with your DM and explain that your familiar is a big part of your character and you're hoping to get on the same page with what is allowed in their game.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
You have to take the Attack action, forego one of your attacks, and the familiar immediately attacks instead (it basically reacts to you giving up an attack). So with regards to timing it's pretty strict. There's also no attacking (or giving up attacks) before initiative is rolled: no surprise rounds, the first round is the first round for everyone, just with possibly some creatures involved in the encounter affected by the Surprised condition.
So could this be done? Strictly speaking, I guess so (aside from the initiative part), though it'd be a bit wonky action-wise.
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Disagree with the 'no surprise rounds'... not sure why surprise would be denied to familiars when some have a stealth of +8.
Actually maybe the best way for this to work is for it to be a surprise attack.
Set your familiar to hiding, should be easy for tiny creatures, those with really nice stealth bonuses are probably desired for this. Maybe even invisible if possible. The make a surprise attack, if the surprise is successful then your familiar gets his attack off and can use it's action to disengage and movement to get out of there.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
Disagree with the 'no surprise rounds'... not sure why surprise would be denied to familiars when some have a stealth of +8.
It's nothing to do with stealth, it's just the 5E mechanics. In 5E surprise rounds don't exist, only regular rounds in which a creature can be surprised. A creature that's surprised basically can't do anything, but still has an initiative. Not-surprised creatures essentially get to do something before surprised ones, even if the surprised ones can have a higher initiative (this matters for the Assassin, for instance).
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Wow some really good points on both sides here thank you I agree with both to a point to the fact it sounds like it should work giving your friend a one off stealth attack especially if you don’t roll initiative yet but then to the point the 5e mechanics make it sort of a gray area I think after hearing your points thank you! I’ll just talk to see DM about it and figure it out you mentioned the investment of the chain master invocation making me realize there’s a lot more I haven’t read i only got the handbook and Xanathars guide so I’ll be checking those other features out to but again thank you this truly truly helped getting your opinions I think It’ll work to a point ware we make a small alteration for it just to make it fun thank you!!! I’ve said it a million time’s now lol
Also remember that familiars are pretty fragile; you don’t want them slugging it out in melee. There’s lots of things they are good for, but meat shield is not one of them.
... especially if you don’t roll initiative yet but then to the point the 5e mechanics make it sort of a gray area I think...
No grey area with regards to rolling initiative; by the rules everybody rolls initiative as soon as combat starts, whether they’re surprised or not. I’ve had DMs do that differently, but that’s houseruling. Your warlock also has to take an action (the Attack action specifically) in order to allow the familiar to attack.
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Good point i dident mean the initiative i guess i worded it wrong I just ment it seems like realistically if you had a wolf and it wanted to bite someone it should be able to on its turn bit sombody though I understand it’s a spirit creature of sorts I just ment realistically it should be able to but mechanics wise it can’t really so that’s what I ment by gray area to clear that up thumbs up
And to your other point right there to there not meat shields though it would be nice for them to make the occasional attack having an extra friend to do the help action sneak around scouting missions is pretty cool on its own
Good point i dident mean the initiative i guess i worded it wrong I just ment it seems like realistically if you had a wolf and it wanted to bite someone it should be able to on its turn bit sombody though I understand it’s a spirit creature of sorts I just ment realistically it should be able to but mechanics wise it can’t really so that’s what I ment by gray area to clear that up thumbs up
Part of this is a game balance, and combat flow issue. If a character has a pet that gets a full set of actions, and the character also gets all of their actions, it’s like adding another party member. Then the ranger, artificer and necromancer will all want their pets to do the same. It worked like that in past editions, and It really, really slows down combats.
I know your right i remember a long time ago during some of are first sessions we had six people and like
three familiars for which I think the DM let them bend the rules for we didn’t now we had barely been playing for a few months and it did get pretty slow and chaotic you mentioning that made me remember haven’t had a familiar in the group since then which is partly why I wanted opinions
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Now this might be easily answered but here it goes so I have just started playing a warlock character or creating is a better word and was a bit disappointed to see you couldn’t for the most part attack with the special creatures the pact of the chain feature gave you which they have pretty good poison stealth based attacks
by the way this is purely a question not ment as a chat room or anything
It says you can forgo a attack to let your familiar attack as a reaction and i know I’m probably reaching with this but thought it sounded possible
so now here is my question now if say your warlock is hiding around the corner with your party and a guard creature etc) is there could you send your familiar in to attack then lead it away etc) as in attack and move in the same turn under the idea that you will not be doing anything and saying your giving your attacks to it before any initiative would be rolled oh and could the same be applied to allowing it to hunt for you? Or is that just naturally allowed? Please clarify
The way I understand it, a pact of the chain warlock can take the attack action and forego one of it's attacks to allow it's familiar to make an attack as a reaction... which the familiar does right away on your turn.
If you have the invocation: investment of the chain master you can also use a bonus action to order your familiar to take the attack action... the familiar takes the attack action on it's turn.
Both the above examples are for combat, if you are outside of initiative you should be able to have your familiar attack using either of these options... talk with your DM and explain that your familiar is a big part of your character and you're hoping to get on the same page with what is allowed in their game.
You have to take the Attack action, forego one of your attacks, and the familiar immediately attacks instead (it basically reacts to you giving up an attack). So with regards to timing it's pretty strict. There's also no attacking (or giving up attacks) before initiative is rolled: no surprise rounds, the first round is the first round for everyone, just with possibly some creatures involved in the encounter affected by the Surprised condition.
So could this be done? Strictly speaking, I guess so (aside from the initiative part), though it'd be a bit wonky action-wise.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Disagree with the 'no surprise rounds'... not sure why surprise would be denied to familiars when some have a stealth of +8.
Actually maybe the best way for this to work is for it to be a surprise attack.
Set your familiar to hiding, should be easy for tiny creatures, those with really nice stealth bonuses are probably desired for this. Maybe even invisible if possible. The make a surprise attack, if the surprise is successful then your familiar gets his attack off and can use it's action to disengage and movement to get out of there.
It's nothing to do with stealth, it's just the 5E mechanics. In 5E surprise rounds don't exist, only regular rounds in which a creature can be surprised. A creature that's surprised basically can't do anything, but still has an initiative. Not-surprised creatures essentially get to do something before surprised ones, even if the surprised ones can have a higher initiative (this matters for the Assassin, for instance).
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Wow some really good points on both sides here thank you I agree with both to a point to the fact it sounds like it should work giving your friend a one off stealth attack especially if you don’t roll initiative yet but then to the point the 5e mechanics make it sort of a gray area I think after hearing your points thank you! I’ll just talk to see DM about it and figure it out you mentioned the investment of the chain master invocation making me realize there’s a lot more I haven’t read i only got the handbook and Xanathars guide so I’ll be checking those other features out to but again thank you this truly truly helped getting your opinions I think It’ll work to a point ware we make a small alteration for it just to make it fun thank you!!! I’ve said it a million time’s now lol
Also remember that familiars are pretty fragile; you don’t want them slugging it out in melee. There’s lots of things they are good for, but meat shield is not one of them.
No grey area with regards to rolling initiative; by the rules everybody rolls initiative as soon as combat starts, whether they’re surprised or not. I’ve had DMs do that differently, but that’s houseruling. Your warlock also has to take an action (the Attack action specifically) in order to allow the familiar to attack.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Good point i dident mean the initiative i guess i worded it wrong I just ment it seems like realistically if you had a wolf and it wanted to bite someone it should be able to on its turn bit sombody though I understand it’s a spirit creature of sorts I just ment realistically it should be able to but mechanics wise it can’t really so that’s what I ment by gray area to clear that up thumbs up
And to your other point right there to there not meat shields though it would be nice for them to make the occasional attack having an extra friend to do the help action sneak around scouting missions is pretty cool on its own
Part of this is a game balance, and combat flow issue. If a character has a pet that gets a full set of actions, and the character also gets all of their actions, it’s like adding another party member. Then the ranger, artificer and necromancer will all want their pets to do the same. It worked like that in past editions, and It really, really slows down combats.
I know your right i remember a long time ago during some of are first sessions we had six people and like
three familiars for which I think the DM let them bend the rules for we didn’t now we had barely been playing for a few months and it did get pretty slow and chaotic you mentioning that made me remember haven’t had a familiar in the group since then which is partly why I wanted opinions