So I’m making this Whispers Bars for a campaign where I intend to do some serious skullduggery, and I would like to also be a Changeling for that chefs kiss of espionage. The one thing I was wondering about is do I lose efficiency of subclass abilities, specifically the Mantle of Shadows, because I can already change appearance. I would technically get general knowledge about the person, by tI was wondering if anyone had any buffs I could propose to the dm to make it more powerful because of the overlap. Any ideas?
no changes need to be done. It gives you magical access to someone's general knowledge, and a magical disguise. so shapeshift under the disguise. and if someone discovers the aura of magic around you and tries to Dispel it... it dispels the magical disguise, but revealing... that you're still the person you killed since the shapeshifting is not magical in this edition. AND you retain the general knowledge. your changeling abilities are a backup plan to maintain the disguise. there's no overlap, no changes that need to be done.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
I think they do kind of overlap, since you can already assume the victims form, voice etc. The information thing is something changelings don't have.
The one thing that makes the Mantle feature worse than the changeling ability is that -it's a disguise- and people can see through it.
Changelings don't wear a disguise. There is nothing to see through. They actually become like that. It is their actual skin now unless a specific effect/spell shows their true form. The only way to know that someone is a changeling is through behaviour or specific magical features/spells.
You don't gain magical info about how your targets behave etc. so you need to know them pretty well. Of course most people would probably just go "what's wrong with you. You are acting strange." So you can try to lie/deceive.
Maybe suggest that combining changeling and Mantle of Whispers removes the see through option? It is a pretty specialized combo and 1hr duration, so I would allow it. After all, the person needs to -die-. So either you get lucky and they just happen to die OR you go about murdering people. I'd say it's usually easier to just go with your changeling feature.
That said. I thought about this same combo too, but went aberrant sorc with a bard dip instead.
Because of the overlap, I considered Eloquence. Grants you a minimum of 10+modifer for all Deception and Persuasion checks. That would make it very easy to pass yourself as another person.
Combine it with Expertise and the Actor feat, which allows you mimic the gestures and speec and sounds of others after 1min of observing. There is a chance to notice, but that includes the sound part and you don't need to fake the sound, only the manners and gestures.
And you get adv to Perf and Dece when pretending to be someone else.
If my player had
Deception Adv
Deception Expertise
Min 10 Deception roll
Changeling
Actor feature
I'd say with that much investment, I wouldn't mind if they were virtually impossible to tell apart from the victim. In only the most extreme situations I would not let it pass easily.
So I’m making this Whispers Bars for a campaign where I intend to do some serious skullduggery, and I would like to also be a Changeling for that chefs kiss of espionage. The one thing I was wondering about is do I lose efficiency of subclass abilities, specifically the Mantle of Shadows, because I can already change appearance. I would technically get general knowledge about the person, by tI was wondering if anyone had any buffs I could propose to the dm to make it more powerful because of the overlap. Any ideas?
no changes need to be done. It gives you magical access to someone's general knowledge, and a magical disguise. so shapeshift under the disguise. and if someone discovers the aura of magic around you and tries to Dispel it... it dispels the magical disguise, but revealing... that you're still the person you killed since the shapeshifting is not magical in this edition. AND you retain the general knowledge. your changeling abilities are a backup plan to maintain the disguise. there's no overlap, no changes that need to be done.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
I think they do kind of overlap, since you can already assume the victims form, voice etc. The information thing is something changelings don't have.
The one thing that makes the Mantle feature worse than the changeling ability is that -it's a disguise- and people can see through it.
Changelings don't wear a disguise. There is nothing to see through. They actually become like that. It is their actual skin now unless a specific effect/spell shows their true form. The only way to know that someone is a changeling is through behaviour or specific magical features/spells.
You don't gain magical info about how your targets behave etc. so you need to know them pretty well. Of course most people would probably just go "what's wrong with you. You are acting strange." So you can try to lie/deceive.
Maybe suggest that combining changeling and Mantle of Whispers removes the see through option? It is a pretty specialized combo and 1hr duration, so I would allow it. After all, the person needs to -die-. So either you get lucky and they just happen to die OR you go about murdering people. I'd say it's usually easier to just go with your changeling feature.
That said. I thought about this same combo too, but went aberrant sorc with a bard dip instead.
Because of the overlap, I considered Eloquence. Grants you a minimum of 10+modifer for all Deception and Persuasion checks. That would make it very easy to pass yourself as another person.
Combine it with Expertise and the Actor feat, which allows you mimic the gestures and speec and sounds of others after 1min of observing. There is a chance to notice, but that includes the sound part and you don't need to fake the sound, only the manners and gestures.
And you get adv to Perf and Dece when pretending to be someone else.
If my player had
Deception Adv
Deception Expertise
Min 10 Deception roll
Changeling
Actor feature
I'd say with that much investment, I wouldn't mind if they were virtually impossible to tell apart from the victim. In only the most extreme situations I would not let it pass easily.
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