Simply defined, a gish is a character that uses both swords and spells. I think originally they were specific to githyanki but the term is used to describe any fighter/mage character.
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Simply defined, a gish is a character that uses both swords and spells. I think originally they were specific to githyanki but the term is used to describe any fighter/mage character.
Good examples are Eldritch Knight Fighters, Hexblade Warlock, Bladesinger Wizard, Valor/Sword Bards
Typically when you see people talking about gish builds here, it’s specifically a full caster who can be effective as a weapon user as well. As you might imagine, there’s a lot of criticism over the “effectiveness” of the weapon use, since as the number and level of spell slots grows the less desirable making a weapon attack looks.
Typically when you see people talking about gish builds here, it’s specifically a full caster who can be effective as a weapon user as well. As you might imagine, there’s a lot of criticism over the “effectiveness” of the weapon use, since as the number and level of spell slots grows the less desirable making a weapon attack looks.
yuuuup. Right now I'm playing a Bladesinger in a seafaring campaign, but with the character flavor that the person she was inspired by was also a bladesinger, but she only ever got to see the melee side of things, so when I take spells as I level, I try to think more tactically vs. damage dealing; spells that give me more mobility on the battlefield, stuff that keeps us safe on the water, etc., etc.
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There are really (IMO) 3 different types of “GISH” : 1) the full caster - bladesinger, valor/sword bards and ( maybe) war cleric or moon Druid. These are casters who have some ability to survive in melee when they have to. 2) the partial casters - paladins, rangers, Eldritch knights, hexblades, arcane tricksters. These are all primarily physical combatants who get some measure of casting capability. They typically focus on melee or ranged combat with occasional spell use. The hexblade, arcane trickster and Eldritch knights have very limited spell use while the paladins and rangers have substantial ability. Paladins however tend to channel the majority of their ability into added damage on weapon attacks (smites) leaving the ranger as the more “ magically” oriented . 3) the multiclassing Gish - typically a multiclass with a partial caster and a full caster ( although plenty of fighter-casters are also built). Here you get the martial abilities from the partial caster and the major casting abilities from the full caster. Partial casters tend to dominate here as the caster levels they bring add to the levels of the full caster to make casting abilities somewhat stronger. Because spell damage tends to increase faster than martial damage both groups 1&3 tend to focus less on martial action as they progress. Shifting from martial with occasional spells at tier one to casting with occasional martial defensive actions at tier 4.
The term "Gish" goes all the way back to the Fiend Folio Githyanki of the early 1980s.
I'd personally love to have a full class built around a playstyle that weaves arcane magic into a heavy melee focus since it's such a popular concept. For me the paladin and ranger are not technically "gish" classes since they don't use arcane magic, but I know other people feel differently about that. 4E had the Swordmage to fill that arcane + melee desire, though I never owned any of the 4E products. 5E does have quite a few subclass options as Wi1dBi11 pointed out.
Due to the lack of massive forums etc, my D&D groups of old never ran into the term, and would instead call it "Gandalffing" since Gandalf used the Sword Glamdring along with his staff. Also after a while, every use of spellcraft and melee was called 'battlemaging', or "Swordsingering" if the weapon was a sword.
It was only in the mid half of 5E did i ever hear the word "Gish" in relation to D&D. There had been a term for it that i had just missed, for 3 decades.
So don't worry OP, you will never be as woefully ignorant as me.
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He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
I would note that a classic image that I have never seen successfully done in D&D is the guy who dual-wields a sword and an arcane focus, and uses them both to fight (think a spellsword in Skyrim).
I would note that a classic image that I have never seen successfully done in D&D is the guy who dual-wields a sword and an arcane focus, and uses them both to fight (think a spellsword in Skyrim).
I always assumed the 4E Swordmage was something like this. Not so?
The 4e Swordmage did a better job of it than the 5e classes and subclasses do - within the rules of 4e but the best examples were really the 1e elven fighter mages who leveled up in both classes into tier 3. By 3e the rules on that had changed but you could still multiclassing in both potentially into tier 5 (epic levels). I have a few of my 1e PCs that I played into 3e and epic levels as NPCs in my current world and you don’t want to mess with them.
The term "Gish" goes all the way back to the Fiend Folio Githyanki of the early 1980s.
I'd personally love to have a full class built around a playstyle that weaves arcane magic into a heavy melee focus since it's such a popular concept. For me the paladin and ranger are not technically "gish" classes since they don't use arcane magic, but I know other people feel differently about that. 4E had the Swordmage to fill that arcane + melee desire, though I never owned any of the 4E products. 5E does have quite a few subclass options as Wi1dBi11 pointed out.
I have the original fiend folio and the word Gish doesn't appear anywhere in it or to the Githyanki section.
What is a "Gish" Never heard of it, except for Lillian Gish.
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D&D StaffSimply defined, a gish is a character that uses both swords and spells. I think originally they were specific to githyanki but the term is used to describe any fighter/mage character.
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Good examples are Eldritch Knight Fighters, Hexblade Warlock, Bladesinger Wizard, Valor/Sword Bards
Typically when you see people talking about gish builds here, it’s specifically a full caster who can be effective as a weapon user as well. As you might imagine, there’s a lot of criticism over the “effectiveness” of the weapon use, since as the number and level of spell slots grows the less desirable making a weapon attack looks.
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D&D Staffyuuuup. Right now I'm playing a Bladesinger in a seafaring campaign, but with the character flavor that the person she was inspired by was also a bladesinger, but she only ever got to see the melee side of things, so when I take spells as I level, I try to think more tactically vs. damage dealing; spells that give me more mobility on the battlefield, stuff that keeps us safe on the water, etc., etc.
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You can call me LT. :)
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Generally active from 9am - 6pm CDT [GMT-5].
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There are really (IMO) 3 different types of “GISH” :
1) the full caster - bladesinger, valor/sword bards and ( maybe) war cleric or moon Druid. These are casters who have some ability to survive in melee when they have to.
2) the partial casters - paladins, rangers, Eldritch knights, hexblades, arcane tricksters. These are all primarily physical combatants who get some measure of casting capability. They typically focus on melee or ranged combat with occasional spell use. The hexblade, arcane trickster and Eldritch knights have very limited spell use while the paladins and rangers have substantial ability. Paladins however tend to channel the majority of their ability into added damage on weapon attacks (smites) leaving the ranger as the more “ magically” oriented .
3) the multiclassing Gish - typically a multiclass with a partial caster and a full caster ( although plenty of fighter-casters are also built). Here you get the martial abilities from the partial caster and the major casting abilities from the full caster. Partial casters tend to dominate here as the caster levels they bring add to the levels of the full caster to make casting abilities somewhat stronger.
Because spell damage tends to increase faster than martial damage both groups 1&3 tend to focus less on martial action as they progress. Shifting from martial with occasional spells at tier one to casting with occasional martial defensive actions at tier 4.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Good question. I never heard of it used anywhere except in 5e. Maybe it originated from Baldur's Gate video game?
It’s a type of Gith monster block in 5e, at least. Githyanki Gish
Most likely the term has been around for a while- the Gith and a lot of their core concepts aren’t original to 5e.
The term "Gish" goes all the way back to the Fiend Folio Githyanki of the early 1980s.
I'd personally love to have a full class built around a playstyle that weaves arcane magic into a heavy melee focus since it's such a popular concept. For me the paladin and ranger are not technically "gish" classes since they don't use arcane magic, but I know other people feel differently about that. 4E had the Swordmage to fill that arcane + melee desire, though I never owned any of the 4E products. 5E does have quite a few subclass options as Wi1dBi11 pointed out.
Due to the lack of massive forums etc, my D&D groups of old never ran into the term, and would instead call it "Gandalffing" since Gandalf used the Sword Glamdring along with his staff.
Also after a while, every use of spellcraft and melee was called 'battlemaging', or "Swordsingering" if the weapon was a sword.
It was only in the mid half of 5E did i ever hear the word "Gish" in relation to D&D. There had been a term for it that i had just missed, for 3 decades.
So don't worry OP, you will never be as woefully ignorant as me.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
I would note that a classic image that I have never seen successfully done in D&D is the guy who dual-wields a sword and an arcane focus, and uses them both to fight (think a spellsword in Skyrim).
I always assumed the 4E Swordmage was something like this. Not so?
The 4e Swordmage did a better job of it than the 5e classes and subclasses do - within the rules of 4e but the best examples were really the 1e elven fighter mages who leveled up in both classes into tier 3. By 3e the rules on that had changed but you could still multiclassing in both potentially into tier 5 (epic levels). I have a few of my 1e PCs that I played into 3e and epic levels as NPCs in my current world and you don’t want to mess with them.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I have the original fiend folio and the word Gish doesn't appear anywhere in it or to the Githyanki section.