Today we gave you the overview of the 2024 Rogue? What do you think of the changes made to its abilities? Will you be running an Assassin when the PHB releases?
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Arcane Trickster mage hand can trip when you do (but not disarm anymore?)
I'm struggling to parse this?
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I was hoping for Bludgeoning sneak attack (blackjack to the head?) for Bonk damage but that can be easily houseruled :)
There's a couple of weapons they need to add imo. A bludgeoning finesse weapon (e.g. a blackjack as you mentioned or a sap, maybe have it do d4 to balance it against club) is one, and a bludgeoning polearm (e.g. lucerne hammer) is another.
UMD for the Thief sub-class - Use of the "Magic" action needing a Intelligence Check (Arcana) begs the question with the changes to backgrounds being linked to classes will there be any access to the Arcana skill for a straight Rogue Thief since it looks like the Feat that was used in the past to pick up Arcana (Skill Expert) does not appear to be mentioned so far in the new edition...
UMD for the Thief sub-class - Use of the "Magic" action needing a Intelligence Check (Arcana) begs the question with the changes to backgrounds being linked to classes will there be any access to the Arcana skill for a straight Rogue Thief since it looks like the Feat that was used in the past to pick up Arcana (Skill Expert) does not appear to be mentioned so far in the new edition...
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "backgrounds being linked to classes." There are some backgrounds that will be more attractive for a given class due to their ability scores or starting feat, but you're not required to take X background with Y class, you can mix and match the two freely.
If you want Arcana on your Thief and none of the backgrounds that give Arcana fit your concept, grab one of the ones with the Skilled feat instead - then you can apply your Expertise to that skill as normal if you want. Or pick a Species that grants Arcana (e.g. Kobold) or a floating skill (e.g. Kenku).
I swear to god WoTC is trying to turn 5e into a wargame. Why can’t we have features for social encounters?!??!?! I want to infiltrate places in disguise as an assassin like in the hitman games ffs!
I’m upset that they keep taking away social features. Not every feature in a subclass needs to be combat centric. There should be abilities and features that can be used in social situations.
It was folded into Infiltration Expertise actually. Crawford doesn't talk much about it in this video, but Colby from d4 was allowed to give a more detailed spoiler breakdown of the subclass here. This has the added benefit of getting you Impostor earlier than the 2014 Assassin did.
I also wish instead of an extra language that may or may not make sense for our character, we could have the option to replace thieves cant with something else, and allow other classes to have it
Not all rogues are criminals and not all criminals are rogues. Why can’t a cleric of mask have thieves cant?
also, rogues STILL aren’t proficient in scimitars. Gods forbid we want to play a pirate themed swashbuckler who actually can use scimitars.
Scimitar is a Martial Finesse weapon is it not? They do get it.
Assuming Thieves' Cant is a Rare Language it should be obtainable via background, but even if it isn't, a 1-level rogue dip isn't a painful ask.
I was wrong about the impostor feature but I can’t be entirely blamed when wotc took away Roleplay centric features from other subclasses rather then improving them, so I expected the same case here. Glamour bards can no longer charm people into saying nice things about them around town after performing and archfey warlocks are no longer allowed to be charm focused, instead they have misty step nonsense that doesn’t fit all archfey. Charm abilities was flavorfully fitting, Misty step is not. Misty step isn’t fitting for hags and yet they were a common patron for warlocks
A lot of those ribbons were extremely clunky and situational, and/or should just be things you can do via skill checks. Anybody who can perform really well should be able to get the town talking about them, without needing a whole subclass feature for it, and it shouldn't be tied to a specific performance length either.
I swear to god WoTC is trying to turn 5e into a wargame. Why can’t we have features for social encounters?!??!?! I want to infiltrate places in disguise as an assassin like in the hitman games ffs!
Um... take proficiency with a disguise kit and use deception, like anyone else would? They probably got rid of the feature because it's a complete waste of space.
I swear to god WoTC is trying to turn 5e into a wargame. Why can’t we have features for social encounters?!??!?! I want to infiltrate places in disguise as an assassin like in the hitman games ffs!
Um... take proficiency with a disguise kit and use deception, like anyone else would? They probably got rid of the feature because it's a complete waste of space.
As mentioned, they didn't get rid of Impostor, they just combined it with the previous feature.
I agree that it was colossally bad before though 😛
Not much to say about the Rogue other than I am glad they made adjustments to the Soulknife. Everything else was kind of expected I think. Still a good class option.
Not rearranging the subclass features was a big miss. I'd rather not have a big gap in subclass features in the most common levels of the game (and arguably best) in favor of backwards compatibility.
It'd have been super easy to just have new subclasses have features at level six but keep the old ones as is until they're released in new books or an errata. Or just move them up. Not like it'd have been outrageously overpowered to give a level six inquisitive rogues advantage on perception checks or scouts a little more mobility. None of the 13 or 17 features would be game breaking a few levels earlier either.
Not rearranging the subclass features was a big miss. I'd rather not have a big gap in subclass features in the most common levels of the game (and arguably best) in favor of backwards compatibility.
It'd have been super easy to just have new subclasses have features at level six but keep the old ones as is until they're released in new books or an errata. Or just move them up. Not like it'd have been outrageously overpowered to give a level six inquisitive rogues advantage on perception checks or scouts a little more mobility. None of the 13 or 17 features would be game breaking a few levels earlier either.
I wanted standardized subclass feature levels too, especially since it would have meant they could have brought back prestige classes (i.e. subclasses that multiple classes can take.) Imagine for example if we could have a Dragonslayer subclass that played differently for a Fighter, Paladin, or Barbarian entry, or a Shadowdancer subclass that played differently for a Monk, Rogue, or Bard entry.
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D&D StaffToday we gave you the overview of the 2024 Rogue? What do you think of the changes made to its abilities? Will you be running an Assassin when the PHB releases?
Your Friendly Neighborhood Community Manager (she/her)
You can call me LT. :)
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Thank you for your patience if you message me outside of those hours!
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Smaller summary since it's pretty identical to the last UA. There were only a few small changes since the playtest, these are:
stabby stabby
Lots of little quality of life changes that properly codify things and improve the flow of gameplay/reduce questions at the table. All good for me.
I was hoping for Bludgeoning sneak attack (blackjack to the head?) for Bonk damage but that can be easily houseruled :)
I'm struggling to parse this?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
There's a couple of weapons they need to add imo. A bludgeoning finesse weapon (e.g. a blackjack as you mentioned or a sap, maybe have it do d4 to balance it against club) is one, and a bludgeoning polearm (e.g. lucerne hammer) is another.
Have you read the playtest Arcane Trickster? Was trying not to duplicate a bunch of text if possible.
UMD for the Thief sub-class - Use of the "Magic" action needing a Intelligence Check (Arcana) begs the question with the changes to backgrounds being linked to classes will there be any access to the Arcana skill for a straight Rogue Thief since it looks like the Feat that was used in the past to pick up Arcana (Skill Expert) does not appear to be mentioned so far in the new edition...
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "backgrounds being linked to classes." There are some backgrounds that will be more attractive for a given class due to their ability scores or starting feat, but you're not required to take X background with Y class, you can mix and match the two freely.
If you want Arcana on your Thief and none of the backgrounds that give Arcana fit your concept, grab one of the ones with the Skilled feat instead - then you can apply your Expertise to that skill as normal if you want. Or pick a Species that grants Arcana (e.g. Kobold) or a floating skill (e.g. Kenku).
No article like the others?
Edit it's up
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1752-2024-rogue-vs-2014-rogue-whats-new
It was folded into Infiltration Expertise actually. Crawford doesn't talk much about it in this video, but Colby from d4 was allowed to give a more detailed spoiler breakdown of the subclass here. This has the added benefit of getting you Impostor earlier than the 2014 Assassin did.
Scimitar is a Martial Finesse weapon is it not? They do get it.
Assuming Thieves' Cant is a Rare Language it should be obtainable via background, but even if it isn't, a 1-level rogue dip isn't a painful ask.
A lot of those ribbons were extremely clunky and situational, and/or should just be things you can do via skill checks. Anybody who can perform really well should be able to get the town talking about them, without needing a whole subclass feature for it, and it shouldn't be tied to a specific performance length either.
Um... take proficiency with a disguise kit and use deception, like anyone else would? They probably got rid of the feature because it's a complete waste of space.
As mentioned, they didn't get rid of Impostor, they just combined it with the previous feature.
I agree that it was colossally bad before though 😛
Not much to say about the Rogue other than I am glad they made adjustments to the Soulknife. Everything else was kind of expected I think. Still a good class option.
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Not rearranging the subclass features was a big miss. I'd rather not have a big gap in subclass features in the most common levels of the game (and arguably best) in favor of backwards compatibility.
It'd have been super easy to just have new subclasses have features at level six but keep the old ones as is until they're released in new books or an errata. Or just move them up. Not like it'd have been outrageously overpowered to give a level six inquisitive rogues advantage on perception checks or scouts a little more mobility. None of the 13 or 17 features would be game breaking a few levels earlier either.
I wanted standardized subclass feature levels too, especially since it would have meant they could have brought back prestige classes (i.e. subclasses that multiple classes can take.) Imagine for example if we could have a Dragonslayer subclass that played differently for a Fighter, Paladin, or Barbarian entry, or a Shadowdancer subclass that played differently for a Monk, Rogue, or Bard entry.